Re: Trade Talk (Part Twelve): 2023 Playoff Push Edition

[BlacJacMac]

I would do that deal in a heartbeat - even if Simmons never plays again.

With a young core of Jones/Ant/Bridges/McD you could plug in almost anyone at Center once Gobert's time is up. And we still have Minott and Moore to develop.

[Note30]

I would do that deal in a heartbeat - even if Simmons never plays again.

With a young core of Jones/Ant/Bridges/McD you could plug in almost anyone at Center once Gobert's time is up. And we still have Minott and Moore to develop.

Yeah, Simmons is basically a buyout at this point.

[BlacJacMac]

I would do that deal in a heartbeat - even if Simmons never plays again.

With a young core of Jones/Ant/Bridges/McD you could plug in almost anyone at Center once Gobert's time is up. And we still have Minott and Moore to develop.

Yeah, Simmons is basically a buyout at this point.

I'd give him a year. No pressure, get his head on straight.

If he can even be 70% of what he was, he could be hugely helpful.

[Note30]

I'm not gonna lie all this talk of trading Towns feels really wrong to me. Yes he's an incessant crybaby, and lacks motor and initiative at times. But he's also put this team down as one he wants to be loyal to. I think in an era of players that turn their backs on teams easily I think trading Towns is wrong.

What precedent does that set for Ant or Jaden?

Hey even if you want to be here and we sign you to a large contract we'll ship you out the second you become a nuisance off one bad season.

Towns has had his issues for a while but he's never been a sour note. I just think we made a colossal mistake getting Rudy and the only superstar who's been loyal to us shouldn't get punished for it.

I guarantee if we had a high motor mobile defensive center we'd be talking really differently at the moment. If we had traded for Bam instead of Gobert we wouldn't be saying this right now.

In fact the one time we got a mobile high motor player like Vanderbilt, Towns was playing some of the best basketball imo. It was more fluid

Gobert is also a low motor center, he doesn't complain as much but he still complains. He can't guard bigger centers or switch onto more mobile players and he only blocks shots and grabs rebounds when it's easy (having a really large wingspan does help a lot) with that.

We got a guy with a lot of the same weaknesses as our star player and now we're surprised when he's put into a different position on offense and defense and he's struggling?

I may not agree with a lot of posters here, but I think it's fair to say Towns has gone through a lot during his tenure here and he's mostly gotten the short end of the stick.

Long story short, if our FO trades Towns to get out of the position we're in because they created it, then I think players in the future will remember that.

[Note30]

I would do that deal in a heartbeat - even if Simmons never plays again.

With a young core of Jones/Ant/Bridges/McD you could plug in almost anyone at Center once Gobert's time is up. And we still have Minott and Moore to develop.

Yeah, Simmons is basically a buyout at this point.

I'd give him a year. No pressure, get his head on straight.

If he can even be 70% of what he was, he could be hugely helpful.

Yeah for sure - makes sense

[Klomp]

I'm not gonna lie all this talk of trading Towns feels really wrong to me. Yes he's an incessant crybaby, and lacks motor and initiative at times. But he's also put this team down as one he wants to be loyal to. I think in an era of players that turn their backs on teams easily I think trading Towns is wrong.

What precedent does that set for Ant or Jaden?

Hey even if you want to be here and we sign you to a large contract we'll ship you out the second you become a nuisance off one bad season.

Towns has had his issues for a while but he's never been a sour note. I just think we made a colossal mistake getting Rudy and the only superstar who's been loyal to us shouldn't get punished for it.

I guarantee if we had a high motor mobile defensive center we'd be talking really differently at the moment. If we had traded for Bam instead of Gobert we wouldn't be saying this right now.

In fact the one time we got a mobile high motor player like Vanderbilt, Towns was playing some of the best basketball imo. It was more fluid

Gobert is also a low motor center, he doesn't complain as much but he still complains. He can't guard bigger centers or switch onto more mobile players and he only blocks shots and grabs rebounds when it's easy (having a really large wingspan does help a lot) with that.

We got a guy with a lot of the same weaknesses as our star player and now we're surprised when he's put into a different position on offense and defense and he's struggling?

I may not agree with a lot of posters here, but I think it's fair to say Towns has gone through a lot during his tenure here and he's mostly gotten the short end of the stick.

Long story short, if our FO trades Towns to get out of the position we're in because they created it, then I think players in the future will remember that.

This might be the best thing working in Towns' favor. But is that enough? It might be. But I just wonder if at some time we need to come to a clean break.

Towns is statistically the second-greatest Timberwolves player of all-time. Where has that brought us as a franchise?

[Note30]

This might be the best thing working in Towns' favor. But is that enough? It might be. But I just wonder if at some time we need to come to a clean break.

Towns is statistically the second-greatest Timberwolves player of all-time. Where has that brought us as a franchise?

Why would it need to come to a break? Does having KAT make us a worse team? At the moment I don't think so. I just think we spent all our chips on a guy who does the same exact job but way worse on one end and relatively better on the other. So unless Towns comes out to the FO and says trade me I'm not in that boat.

Look at Damian Lillard probably at this point the best Blazer ever. Sure they haven't won a chip, but he's kept them entertained and the Blazers have treated him well. Any future star the Blazers draft will likely look at Dame and say wow. They treated him right they might treat me right.

That's worth a lot of capital as a small market team.

KAT has gotten us to the playoffs twice in the time he's been here out of the eight years he's been here.

That's a lot considering we've had zero stability in the past eight years, in fact Finch and Ant are the first piece of stability he's had and all of that was thrown off by the Gobert trade.

He's been arguably one of the most skillful and efficient offensive players in the league and probably for the 5 in league history. Obviously the other side of the ball has been dismal, but hey can't win them all.

I'm not saying don't trade him, but if the FO does it, it better be a mutual decision that is carried out with class and respect.

[m2002brian]

It’s a beautiful day in the neighborhood.
It is a a sight to behold, coming to RealGm and seeing “everyone” having the same thoughts I’ve had for years.

Are there still people saying “it was just one game”?
Do they still say “it was just one bad series”?


It’s been YEARS. This talent filled KAT has been getting by on talent but not putting in the work. The dedication and the mental fortitude are lacking. He thinks it’s all going to come easy because he’s just so talented. It’s all anyone tells him. It’s repeated on this very forum “most talented center”.

Remember when he was at the podium and talking about being a better leader and needing to show Ant how to work out better, how to eat better, how to be a leader??? Remember that, remember all that PROJECTING he was doing?

He’s a diva, an entitled whiner. He’s never been a winner.

Oh he got into the playoffs? No he didn’t. Jimmy did, and Ant was on pace to do so this year, most of it all without KAT btw.

Let’s not keep doing this year in and year out.

[Guest84]

I'm not gonna lie all this talk of trading Towns feels really wrong to me. Yes he's an incessant crybaby, and lacks motor and initiative at times. But he's also put this team down as one he wants to be loyal to. I think in an era of players that turn their backs on teams easily I think trading Towns is wrong.

What precedent does that set for Ant or Jaden?

Playing devils advocate, what if Ant, Jaden and others have realized that Kat isn’t it behind closed doors?

What precedent does it set by keeping a guy who doesn’t fit with or makes your future star players better?

You’re basically telling them it doesn’t matter how they feel about this guy. He’s a super max player and will be here regardless.

Sometimes you have to identify and cut your losses early before they balloon into a bigger loss. I’m not advocating to trade Kat but if he’s a detriment to the team’s moral then you have to consider it.

[Note30]

I'm not gonna lie all this talk of trading Towns feels really wrong to me. Yes he's an incessant crybaby, and lacks motor and initiative at times. But he's also put this team down as one he wants to be loyal to. I think in an era of players that turn their backs on teams easily I think trading Towns is wrong.

What precedent does that set for Ant or Jaden?

Playing devils advocate, what if Ant, Jaden and others have realized that Kat isn’t it behind closed doors?

What precedent does it set by keeping a guy who doesn’t fit with or makes your future star players better?

You’re basically telling them it doesn’t matter how they feel about this guy. He’s a super max player and will be here regardless.

Sometimes you have to identify and cut your losses early before they balloon into a bigger loss. I’m not advocating to trade Kat but if he’s a detriment to the team’s moral then you have to consider it.

Absolutely, I agree with what you're saying.

[frankenwolf]

I'm not gonna lie all this talk of trading Towns feels really wrong to me. Yes he's an incessant crybaby, and lacks motor and initiative at times. But he's also put this team down as one he wants to be loyal to. I think in an era of players that turn their backs on teams easily I think trading Towns is wrong.

What precedent does that set for Ant or Jaden?

Playing devils advocate, what if Ant, Jaden and others have realized that Kat isn’t it behind closed doors?

What precedent does it set by keeping a guy who doesn’t fit with or makes your future star players better?

You’re basically telling them it doesn’t matter how they feel about this guy. He’s a super max player and will be here regardless.

Sometimes you have to identify and cut your losses early before they balloon into a bigger loss. I’m not advocating to trade Kat but if he’s a detriment to the team’s moral then you have to consider it.

If he is, then you have to think about it, sure. However, have we heard anything from anybody (excluding General soreness) that KAT is a detriment to the team? Let's keep this group together for a while longer. Am I disappointed that we aren't a top 4 team in the west this year? Yes, but again, KAT missed 52 games, Ant has toughed it out through some injuries and not been 100% and we switched PG's 1/2 way through the season. This team can very well be a championship team.

[shrink]

I would do that deal in a heartbeat - even if Simmons never plays again.

With a young core of Jones/Ant/Bridges/McD you could plug in almost anyone at Center once Gobert's time is up. And we still have Minott and Moore to develop.

Yeah, Simmons is basically a buyout at this point.

I'd give him a year. No pressure, get his head on straight.

If he can even be 70% of what he was, he could be hugely helpful.

We already gave him a year. Last year. One full year with zero production. This year has been nearly as bad. He will finish the season with more personal fouls than buckets! I think people love the concept of Simmons, not who Simmons is.

And then there’s the locker room. There is nobody I want less in Ant’s ear than Ben Simmons, who forced his way off his team and still didn’t show up at the next one.

Simmons would need to be bought out before I’d even consider this, if I was Tim Connelly. He’s been trying to add professionals.

[shrink]

I get people are emotional about Towns, and last game has amplified those emotions. His whining is annoying, and many people attach their feelings about the historic lack of success for the franchise squarely on Towns’ shoulders. But these emotions are leading to a lot of supposition, much of it untrue.

To start, Towns as an individual is not keeping the Wolves from team success. The Wolves problem has traditionally been a lack of surrounding talent, almost always young players, and a carousel of coaching and front office changes. Towns Win Shares are always good - while nearly every teammate the last eight years not so much. MIN has only had one player who was so great that he can get team wins with a poor supporting cast. Just because KAT isn’t Garnett doesn’t mean he sucks.

Second, someone said Towns doesn’t put in the work, and tries to get by on talent alone? Nobody makes All NBA twice without putting in the work. Towns was not born with his plethora of offensive moves and historic three point shooting.

Third, someone else suggested that Towns doesn’t fit with Ant? Ant’s a guard, his compliment would be a big, that doesn’t encroach on him. Ant can score from outside, and drive to the hoop. KAT can do the same, and creates space for Ant whichever he decides. And unlike most stars, KAT is a very willing passer - if anything, he’s generally been “too” willing. This gets Ant more FGA’s. I struggle to think of many players in the NBA who would be a better compliment for Ant, giving him every possible pathway to grow.

I get it. Towns is an easy player to dislike. That last game was horrible. But let’s not invent reasoning to match our emotions. This is RealGM, and GM’s have to look at things longterm.

[BlacJacMac]

I'm not gonna lie all this talk of trading Towns feels really wrong to me. Yes he's an incessant crybaby, and lacks motor and initiative at times. But he's also put this team down as one he wants to be loyal to. I think in an era of players that turn their backs on teams easily I think trading Towns is wrong.

What precedent does that set for Ant or Jaden?

This feel like the "We can't trade D'Lo because it will upset KAT argument".

[TimberKat]

I get Towns' defense is bad but he is not 100% yet. I don't think he argue with Refs since comeback from injury. I think Finch and Gobert complains more. If you get a great offer, certainly listen but it's too early to activatly trade him like what we did with DLo. If I get Bucks calling for Towns+JMac for Giannis, I certainly would consider.

Maybe we are just getting a bunch of NYK fans post who want Wolves to trade Towns for Toppin because Toppin is a better fit with Gobert. Maybe just a bunch of Russian Trolls that just want to instill chaos in Wolvesland

[Klomp]

I get people are emotional about Towns, and last game has amplified those emotions. His whining is annoying, and many people attach their feelings about the historic lack of success for the franchise squarely on Towns’ shoulders. But these emotions are leading to a lot of supposition, much of it untrue.

To start, Towns as an individual is not keeping the Wolves from team success. The Wolves problem has traditionally been a lack of surrounding talent, almost always young players, and a carousel of coaching and front office changes. Towns Win Shares are always good - while nearly every teammate the last eight years not so much. MIN has only had one player who was so great that he can get team wins with a poor supporting cast. Just because KAT isn’t Garnett doesn’t mean he sucks.

Second, someone said Towns doesn’t put in the work, and tries to get by on talent alone? Nobody makes All NBA twice without putting in the work. Towns was not born with his plethora of offensive moves and historic three point shooting.

Third, someone else suggested that Towns doesn’t fit with Ant? Ant’s a guard, his compliment would be a big, that doesn’t encroach on him. Ant can score from outside, and drive to the hoop. KAT can do the same, and creates space for Ant whichever he decides. And unlike most stars, KAT is a very willing passer - if anything, he’s generally been “too” willing. This gets Ant more FGA’s. I struggle to think of many players in the NBA who would be a better compliment for Ant, giving him every possible pathway to grow.

I get it. Towns is an easy player to dislike. That last game was horrible. But let’s not invent reasoning to match our emotions. This is RealGM, and GM’s have to look at things longterm.

For me personally, the Towns trade idea took a step forward in the last week, and it doesn't really have to do with anything on the court per se.

1. Towns came away from the Lakers game saying "I got a lot of things to say tomorrow at practice..."
2. Finch before the Blazers game says "guys are in their feelings" regarding shot selection/distribution.
3. Towns attempts 3 field goals in 25 minutes of an embarrassing loss to Portland.
4. Towns leaves the locker room before media can talk to him.
5. Finch says "I think (Towns) was too passive tonight" after the game.

Towns is someone who I think says what he believes people think he should say. I think he's seen the Anderson success and thought that's how he should play. And I think he went into practice saying "I'm going to defer to everyone." But that's not his role. His role is to be an offensive weapon. That's why Finch said guys are in their feelings and that Towns was too passive.

Towns is a great fit on offense. But he has to be willing to shoot. If not, defenses will sag off of him a la Draymond, and we don't have a Steph or Klay to make up for that.

[Klomp]

I would do that deal in a heartbeat - even if Simmons never plays again.

With a young core of Jones/Ant/Bridges/McD you could plug in almost anyone at Center once Gobert's time is up. And we still have Minott and Moore to develop.

Yeah, Simmons is basically a buyout at this point.

I thought this was an interesting comment brought up.

Read on Twitter

I know everyone thinks Simmons is damaged goods. But people thought the same about Michael Porter Jr. Our very own Tim Connelly was roasted for signing Porter to that extension a few years ago. But look at him now.

Read on Twitter

[Paradise]

I dropped a spicy one on the T&T forum.

Picks can be negotiated, but this is the basic format...

______________________________________________________

BRK: Karl-Anthony Towns and Brandon Clarke
OUT: Ben Simmons and Mikal Bridges

Why for Brooklyn? Get an All-NBA center who fits well with the rest of their roster. Dump the worst contract in the NBA.

Why not for Brooklyn? Mikal Bridges' contract is awesome.

Spencer Dinwiddie / Patty Mills / Edmond Sumner
Joe Harris / Cam Thomas /
Dorian Finney-Smith / Royce O'Neal
Karl-Anthony Towns / Cameron Johnson (RFA)
Nic Claxton / Day'Ron Sharpe

______________________________________________________

MIN: Ben Simmons, Mikal Bridges, and Tyus Jones
OUT: Karl-Anthony Towns, Mike Conley, and Taurean Prince

Why for Minnesota? Go all-in on defense and bring in a younger Point-Guard.

Why not for Minnesota? Taking on Ben Simmons is absurdly rough.

Tyus Jones / Jordan McLaughlin
Anthony Edwards / Nickeil Alexander-Walker (RFA)
Mikal Bridges / Kyle Anderson / Wendell Moore Jr.
Jaden McDaniels / Ben Simmons / Josh Minott
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid (resign) / Nathan Knight (UNG)

Final defensive stop lineup of...
Ben Simmons / Mikal Bridges / Jaden McDaniels / Kyle Anderson / Rudy Gobert
______________________________________________________

MEM: Mike Conley and Taurean Prince
OUT: Tyus Jones and Brandon Clarke

Why for Memphis? Bring back Mike Conley and get a quality backup forward. Clear Brandon Clarke's salary.

Why not for Memphis? Tyus is a solid young player.

Ja Morant / Mike Conley
Desmond Bane / Luke Kennard
Taurean Prince / Ziaire Williams / Jake LaRavia
Jaren Jackson Jr. / Santi Aldama / David Roddy
Steven Adams / Xavier Tillman Sr.

(Potentially resign Dillon Brooks)
______________________________________________________

Why would we do that when we already have a DPOY candidate center and Bridges who can be All-NBA next season?


We’d rather trade picks and assets to add KAT with Bridges and Claxton.

[Neeva]

Calm down, he won’t be averaging 27 ppg next season. he is in a post trade tear right now but will be coming back down to earth, just wait.

[BlacJacMac]

Calm down, he won’t be averaging 27 ppg next season. he is in a post trade tear right now but will be coming back down to earth, just wait.

Or he just keeps getting better as he shows just how much of his offensive game was surpressed in Phoenix...

Bridges led the Nets to an undefeated 3-0 week with averages of 33 points, 5.7 rebounds, 3.7 assists and 1.3 steals in wins against the Rockets, Hawks and Jazz. He recorded his third-career 40-point game (all since being traded to the Nets) in the win over Atlanta, scoring 42 points.