I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired.

[zeebneeb]

One things for sure, there is never a shortage of hindsight warriors.

If your so good, stop replying on RealGM, and go apply for a job with the Pistons.

There is NO WAY it could be worse the it is right now.

Geez, maybe we should stop criticizing any players until we try out.

I was referencing the Hayes pick. 11 teams passed on him.

Criticizing players, coaches, GM, and ownership is par for the course when your historically bad, but a draft pick is dumb.

Hayes was concensus at 7.

Why people bring this up is bewildering, when he was pick 12.

Thus, if your that good, absolutely go and apply for a job.

[whitehops]

i strongly suggest people watch the pacers some time (if they didn't catch the IST game tonight).

besides haliburton, their other starters are 27,27,31 and 25. they have mathurin playing the same amount of minutes as ivey this year (~23) and their other recent draft picks from the last 3 years are in the rotation but not starting. they cut ties with duarte, a recent lottery pick, after two seasons because he wasn't cutting it.

basically, they're mainly playing vets and integrating the young guys into the mix. they run a "0.5" system (the entire league does) and the result is them being able to play as fast and crisp as they are because they because the vets are making quick decisions which makes it easier for the young guys to make fast decisions. the young guys can also stay in their comfort zones and not get overwhelmed while still contributing to winning ball.

beside trying to make a point, they are also just really fun to watch.

[bstein14]

One things for sure, there is never a shortage of hindsight warriors.

If your so good, stop replying on RealGM, and go apply for a job with the Pistons.

There is NO WAY it could be worse the it is right now.

Geez, maybe we should stop criticizing any players until we try out.

I was referencing the Hayes pick. 11 teams passed on him.

Criticizing players, coaches, GM, and ownership is par for the course when your historically bad, but a draft pick is dumb.

Hayes was concensus at 7.

Why people bring this up is bewildering, when he was pick 12.

Thus, if your that good, absolutely go and apply for a job.

The reality is, he gave up cap space and future assets in order to get three picks in the 2020 draft instead of just one... and its looking like we maybe just have one fringe rotation player in Stewart out of that draft which set him back starting out. We already gave away Bey for Wiseman who isn't a NBA rotation player at this point. Hayes, even though he's been a bit better this season, is still a bottom 6 player in the NBA this season once again in TS% after being worst or 2nd worst the previous three years. Ausar is 7th worst and Cade is 13th worst in the league this season.

Cade is yet another factor... if he were picked at #5 or #7 I'd be mostly ok with what we got at that spot but we were picking #1 overall in a good draft and if we're looking at him as "our franchise" he's lacking in a lot of areas at the moment.... hard to say just how much better he gets at his peak but right now he's still got a ton of holes in his game.

I'm happy with the Duren pick of course for where he was taken he's looking at worst like a solid starter for a long time in this league... that said, his lack of shooting combined with Ausar's lack, Killian's lack, Wiseman's lack, Bagley's lack, etc.... just flat out too many non shooters in this poorly constructed roster. The Ivey pick is still looking questionable at this point but I was 100% on board with Ivey on draft day.... although I also don't know what kind of trade offers were coming from NY and Memphis who both reportedly were calling to move up for Ivey.

Most people feel like Weaver ended up doing pretty well in this past draft with the Ausar and Sasser picks and I tend to agree they both look like they are rotation worthy players for the long haul with Ausar having special potential.

[7r5ur]

Geez, maybe we should stop criticizing any players until we try out.

I was referencing the Hayes pick. 11 teams passed on him.

Criticizing players, coaches, GM, and ownership is par for the course when your historically bad, but a draft pick is dumb.

Hayes was concensus at 7.

Why people bring this up is bewildering, when he was pick 12.

Thus, if your that good, absolutely go and apply for a job.

Cade is yet another factor... if he were picked at #5 or #7 I'd be mostly ok with what we got at that spot but we were picking #1 overall in a good draft and if we're looking at him as "our franchise" he's lacking in a lot of areas at the moment.... hard to say just how much better he gets at his peak but right now he's still got a ton of holes in his game.

Was it really? Is this team notably better with any of those other players? Is there a true #1 option type of player that the Pistons passed on? I'd say Mobley and Scottie are the only guys that you can really say are better today. Franz is probably a wash with Cade. Mobley looks like a #3 option and Scottie is probably a #2 or 3. I'll give them the nod because of defense, but let's be real, this team would still lack a true franchise player with them. Seems the draft had good depth of low-tier all-star types but lacked true top-end talent.

Sengun is probably the best player in the draft at this point and he wasn't even a lotto pick.

[NYPiston]

I was referencing the Hayes pick. 11 teams passed on him.

Criticizing players, coaches, GM, and ownership is par for the course when your historically bad, but a draft pick is dumb.

Hayes was concensus at 7.

Why people bring this up is bewildering, when he was pick 12.

Thus, if your that good, absolutely go and apply for a job.

Hayes was NOT consensus. Nobody had any idea who was going at 7 until the last minute. In fact, I remember all those saying outside of Haliburton that they couldn't believe that Avdija dropped to 7. There was a group of 4-5, including Hayes, that could have gone at 7.

With that said, regardless of hindsight it doesn't matter because it was a failed pick. The entire 2020 draft was a big failure. Three 1sts in the top 20 and you got a bench guard, bench big and Wiseman out of it.

[NYPiston]

i strongly suggest people watch the pacers some time (if they didn't catch the IST game tonight).

besides haliburton, their other starters are 27,27,31 and 25. they have mathurin playing the same amount of minutes as ivey this year (~23) and their other recent draft picks from the last 3 years are in the rotation but not starting. they cut ties with duarte, a recent lottery pick, after two seasons because he wasn't cutting it.

basically, they're mainly playing vets and integrating the young guys into the mix. they run a "0.5" system (the entire league does) and the result is them being able to play as fast and crisp as they are because they because the vets are making quick decisions which makes it easier for the young guys to make fast decisions. the young guys can also stay in their comfort zones and not get overwhelmed while still contributing to winning ball.

beside trying to make a point, they are also just really fun to watch.

I was thinking the same watching Haliburton freewheeling playing with the utmost confidence.
It's easy to be confident when you have trust in your teammates and have solid vets to lean on. Not to mention that they have a GREAT coach who knows how to deploy them.

Not saying he's as good but I see Hailburton's situation and wonder what Cade would look like if he had a supporting cast like that.

[Laimbeer]

One things for sure, there is never a shortage of hindsight warriors.

If your so good, stop replying on RealGM, and go apply for a job with the Pistons.

There is NO WAY it could be worse the it is right now.

Geez, maybe we should stop criticizing any players until we try out.

I was referencing the Hayes pick. 11 teams passed on him.

Criticizing players, coaches, GM, and ownership is par for the course when your historically bad, but a draft pick is dumb.

Hayes was concensus at 7.

Why people bring this up is bewildering, when he was pick 12.

Thus, if your that good, absolutely go and apply for a job.

He was pick 7, not 12.

Anyway, there's no such thing as a consensus #7 pick. By that point drafts have all kinds of possibilties. Looking at some major mock drafts, here's who we were projected to take : Patrick Williams (3), Tyrese Haliburton (2), KIllian Hayes (2)

Here's where the mocks projected Hayes to go: 12th(4), 7th(2), 10th(1)

https://hoopsdistillery.com/nba-draft-comparison-of-actual-2020-draft-order-vs-final-mock-drafts/

Weaver actually *reached* for a player with more uncertainty than most, and he whiffed. This is where you seperate GMs. And whether I or anyone here could do better is a red herring.

[Cowology]

We can argue over the minutia, but ultimately it's about the result. There are certainly both short & long-term objectives built into that, but I think it's fair to say that everybody expected us to be further along at this point in time.

The draft is hard. There is essentially a built in failure rate that every GM is going to experience. But when you compound some of those decisions with decisions around FA, Trade, etc and now it's looking a bit more grim.

I'm a patient man. Not looking for short cuts and I understand that building something takes time. But where is the **** foundation?? It's however many years in and we are still in the same spot. Show me something other than "potential". Show me progress.

[whitehops]

I was thinking the same watching Haliburton freewheeling playing with the utmost confidence.
It's easy to be confident when you have trust in your teammates and have solid vets to lean on. Not to mention that they have a GREAT coach who knows how to deploy them.

Not saying he's as good but I see Hailburton's situation and wonder what Cade would look like if he had a supporting cast like that.

yeah it's just a huge difference. everyone on the floor was making quick decisions and immediate action (pass, drive, shoot, etc.) and the offense just flows so much better when everyone is doing that. it also makes a big difference that haliburton can get into the lane pretty easily without a screen, whereas our guards rely heavily on screens to get into the lane which naturally slows down the offense.

[FloridaMan78]

The one thing Weaver didn’t plan on was Monty. Judging by Weaver’s moves it was pretty evident that he’s still on the tanking train. He has kept cap flexibility his main priority. And is holding on to draft picks, that pick for Stewart is going to be a second rounder. He’s not overpaying for free agents and isn’t getting players that don’t want to be here.

Monty has other plans. He dgaf. He gets to do things his way. A very principled man. This forces Weaver to either get players to fit his system or Weaver’s out the door. Ironically, complete decimation of the team is his way to stop tanking lol.

[bjones521]

Weaver absultely has to be fired. Look at our roster and the roster of other teams. And the fact that Weaver still thinks Beef stew can be a starting 4 shows he doesnt know todays basketball. DRIBBLE, PASS AND SHOOT! We have multiple players in our starting lineup that cant do 2 of those things which is insane.

[SuperBad]

Stewart is a good backup at best, I don’t have a problem with the contract he got, but he shouldn’t be a starter. He should be able to beat up most backups by now

[SuperBad]

Stewart is a good backup at best, I don’t have a problem with the contract he got, but he shouldn’t be a starter. He should be able to beat up most backups by now

[whitehops]

Read on Twitter

[Kalamazoo317]

Weird tweet. So over half of them are still on rosters?

And how many of the players he traded away are still on rosters?

IMO Weaver’s issues are more about the moves he *hasn’t* made.

[A_dub06]

I’m 100% on the fire Weaver bandwagon, I think he’s completely inept at his job and his trades have been for the most part really bad or uninspiring.


Something to remember though, we have got to have had the worst lottery luck of pretty much any other rebuilding team in the league. We dropped to 5th, twice in consecutive years. For a team devoid of talent as much as ours and missing out on the quality of prospect that goes 1-2 compared with 5th we really have been knocked down. We missed out on Chet and Wemby. Part of me thinks with either in the roster we would be doing infinitely better than we are now since it would give opposing teams someone to actually take pressure away from our other guys. That said, we missed out and it’s weavers job to try and give our young guys what they need to succeed and right now, Hayes and Stewart are being fed minutes despite neither being crucially important to the future of this roster. Our only shooters are old vets with health concerns and Ivey isn’t being inconsistently being punished. The roster is a joke and the mess stands at the feet of Weaver

[Moses ShamMoses]

The 2020 draft really sticks out to me as the biggest failure of Troy Weaver. Killian Hayes over Haliburton, trading up for Beef Stew and Bey who were low ceiling guys. Second to that, I think trading for Bagley (then the subsequent extension) or trading Bruce Brown (who embodies Detroit Basketball) for peanuts is tied for second. I kind of understood the Wiseman trade, but I was a big Wiseman fan in his draft. Obviously that is a whiff too.

He can't just keep whiffing on his draft picks, trades, and signings and expect to have a job...

[7r5ur]

Geez, maybe we should stop criticizing any players until we try out.

I was referencing the Hayes pick. 11 teams passed on him.

Criticizing players, coaches, GM, and ownership is par for the course when your historically bad, but a draft pick is dumb.

Hayes was concensus at 7.

Why people bring this up is bewildering, when he was pick 12.

Thus, if your that good, absolutely go and apply for a job.

He was pick 7, not 12.

Anyway, there's no such thing as a consensus #7 pick. By that point drafts have all kinds of possibilties. Looking at some major mock drafts, here's who we were projected to take : Patrick Williams (3), Tyrese Haliburton (2), KIllian Hayes (2)

Here's where the mocks projected Hayes to go: 12th(4), 7th(2), 10th(1)

https://hoopsdistillery.com/nba-draft-comparison-of-actual-2020-draft-order-vs-final-mock-drafts/

Weaver actually *reached* for a player with more uncertainty than most, and he whiffed. This is where you seperate GMs. And whether I or anyone here could do better is a red herring.

Killian was ranked higher than Haliburton, so there was no "reach". This is an average of 17 different 2020 draft big boards and they ranked Killian #5 and Hali #8. A big board is overall prospect ranking while a mock draft is based on rumors of which teams like which players and team needs, etc. https://theathletic.com/2200224/2020/11/17/nba-draft-big-board/

Obviously, NBA scouts get it wrong pretty often. That's how a 41st overall pick might win his 3rd MVP this year, and how a guy like Haliburton falls to 12th over like 8 dudes that are barely rotation guys on a good team.

[zeebneeb]

I was referencing the Hayes pick. 11 teams passed on him.

Criticizing players, coaches, GM, and ownership is par for the course when your historically bad, but a draft pick is dumb.

Hayes was concensus at 7.

Why people bring this up is bewildering, when he was pick 12.

Thus, if your that good, absolutely go and apply for a job.

He was pick 7, not 12.

Anyway, there's no such thing as a consensus #7 pick. By that point drafts have all kinds of possibilties. Looking at some major mock drafts, here's who we were projected to take : Patrick Williams (3), Tyrese Haliburton (2), KIllian Hayes (2)

Here's where the mocks projected Hayes to go: 12th(4), 7th(2), 10th(1)

https://hoopsdistillery.com/nba-draft-comparison-of-actual-2020-draft-order-vs-final-mock-drafts/

Weaver actually *reached* for a player with more uncertainty than most, and he whiffed. This is where you seperate GMs. And whether I or anyone here could do better is a red herring.

Killian was ranked higher than Haliburton, so there was no "reach". This is an average of 17 different 2020 draft big boards and they ranked Killian #5 and Hali #8. A big board is overall prospect ranking while a mock draft is based on rumors of which teams like which players and team needs, etc. https://theathletic.com/2200224/2020/11/17/nba-draft-big-board/

Obviously, NBA scouts get it wrong pretty often. That's how a 41st overall pick might win his 3rd MVP this year, and how a guy like Haliburton falls to 12th over like 8 dudes that are barely rotation guys on a good team.

I appreciate it. I was going to share various articles, but with the pushback I got, I figured that since the obvious truth was out there to find, and those who did, decided to not look at it, and instead declare, I figured why even bother?

I mean, this isn't from the 90's, or 2000's, it was less then 3 years ago, and ill state again;

Killian Hayes, was the guy @7.

Peoples own individual feelings, or some others mean very little. I said concensus for a reason.

[Moses ShamMoses]

Wasn't Haliburton considered the high floor guy? It just shows how much GMs don't know. Weaver isn't able to scout talent better than anybody else it seems.