Official Blue Jays 2025 Spring Training Thread

[Randle McMurphy]

I blame Atkins/Shapiro for a lot of stuff, but I think they did the right thing here, especially considering it would’ve been the easy thing to do for their career’s to give Vladdy whatever he wanted.

The thing is, their failure wasn't a binary did they sign him/didn't they sign him thing.

Their failure on Vlad extends back years. This is just the culmination of it.

Nobody even wanted to extend him this time last year coming off his 2022-2023, so this is somewhat revisionist history too.

It’s pretty difficult to reach common ground on a valuation if he can’t even string two good seasons together in 6 years.

[Brinbe]

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lol these a-holes are the absolute worst. true mediocity

[Parataxis]

I blame Atkins/Shapiro for a lot of stuff, but I think they did the right thing here, especially considering it would’ve been the easy thing to do for their career’s to give Vladdy whatever he wanted.

The thing is, their failure wasn't a binary did they sign him/didn't they sign him thing.

Their failure on Vlad extends back years. This is just the culmination of it.

Nobody even wanted to extend him this time last year coming off his 2022-2023, so this is somewhat revisionist history too.

It’s pretty difficult to reach common ground on a valuation if he can’t even string two good seasons together in 6 years.

We've been over this before, and I showed you a thread where I said I wanted them to extend Vlad. But you keep ignoring that.

But even more so, it's not *just* about not extending him earlier. It's about how they've clearly failed at creating a good relationship with him, or knowing when to move on.

All of their decisions from previous years have ramifications that lead to a failure here.

[Randle McMurphy]

The thing is, their failure wasn't a binary did they sign him/didn't they sign him thing.

Their failure on Vlad extends back years. This is just the culmination of it.

Nobody even wanted to extend him this time last year coming off his 2022-2023, so this is somewhat revisionist history too.

It’s pretty difficult to reach common ground on a valuation if he can’t even string two good seasons together in 6 years.

We've been over this before, and I showed you a thread where I said I wanted them to extend Vlad. But you keep ignoring that.

But even more so, it's not *just* about not extending him earlier. It's about how they've clearly failed at creating a good relationship with him, or knowing when to move on.

All of their decisions from previous years have ramifications that lead to a failure here.

Vlad is 40th in WAR in MLB since he entered the league in 2019, just behind Pete Alonso and just ahead of Jeff McNeil. When and why would you want to extend that guy for Juan Soto money? Where was this purported window where he established he was worth hundreds of millions for the next decade?

If he wanted to be paid like a superstar by the Jays (and they have showed a willingness to do so with other actual superstars), I would suggest performing like one. He simply didn’t do that.

[Duffman100]

The only thing going for him in a comparison to Alonso is his age. Both started their careers in 2019 and both are at 17 WAR. From a pure performance perspective, they really aren’t dissimilar at all and Alonso couldn’t even get anybody in this league to give him a long term deal.

Jays fans have been fed the idea for years now that he’s some kind of superstar despite never performing even close to one and that’s led to this reaction today to what was a completely understandable decision by the FO.

I mean he did perform as one in 2021 no? He was 6th in WAR that year and runner up as the MVP.

And what happened in 2022 and 2023?

You won’t get paid superstar money in this league if you only hit like a superstar every 3 years or so. There’s literally been nothing consistent about this guy in his career other than the fact he can’t field or run.

Sure, but you said he's never performed close to a superstar level, that wasn't true.
You also equated him to Alonso, which doesn't quite lineup either. Vlad started at 20 years old where Alonso was at 24, which is skewing the overall WAR.

I'm not saying your wrong, I don't know if I'd paid him superstar money. I also don't like the FO that has painted themselves into a corner like this, with your top two players.

[Parataxis]

Nobody even wanted to extend him this time last year coming off his 2022-2023, so this is somewhat revisionist history too.

It’s pretty difficult to reach common ground on a valuation if he can’t even string two good seasons together in 6 years.

We've been over this before, and I showed you a thread where I said I wanted them to extend Vlad. But you keep ignoring that.

But even more so, it's not *just* about not extending him earlier. It's about how they've clearly failed at creating a good relationship with him, or knowing when to move on.

All of their decisions from previous years have ramifications that lead to a failure here.

Vlad is 40th in WAR in MLB since he entered the league in 2019, just behind Pete Alonso and just ahead of Jeff McNeil. When and why would you want to extend that guy for Juan Soto money? Where was this purported window where he established he was worth hundreds of millions for the next decade?

If he wanted to be paid like a superstar by the Jays (and they have showed a willingness to do so with other actual superstars), I would suggest performing like one. He simply didn’t do that.

Gosh, you just keep moving goalposts, don't you? Nobody said they should have signed him for Juan Soto money, but keep on arguing with your strawmen, I suppose.

[Randle McMurphy]

I mean he did perform as one in 2021 no? He was 6th in WAR that year and runner up as the MVP.

And what happened in 2022 and 2023?

You won’t get paid superstar money in this league if you only hit like a superstar every 3 years or so. There’s literally been nothing consistent about this guy in his career other than the fact he can’t field or run.

Sure, but you said he's never performed close to a superstar level, that wasn't true.
You also equated him to Alonso, which doesn't quite lineup either. Vlad started at 20 years old where Alonso was at 24, which is skewing the overall WAR.

I'm not saying your wrong, I don't know if I'd paid him superstar money. I also don't like the FO that has painted themselves into a corner like this, with your top two players.

His career WAR is identical to Alonso and he plays the same position. It’s a perfectly reasonable comparison from a pure performance perspective. And obviously he’s had some good years, but if he was a consistent superstar, this team would have extended him by now. He’s not established himself to be that guy.

[Randle McMurphy]

We've been over this before, and I showed you a thread where I said I wanted them to extend Vlad. But you keep ignoring that.

But even more so, it's not *just* about not extending him earlier. It's about how they've clearly failed at creating a good relationship with him, or knowing when to move on.

All of their decisions from previous years have ramifications that lead to a failure here.

Vlad is 40th in WAR in MLB since he entered the league in 2019, just behind Pete Alonso and just ahead of Jeff McNeil. When and why would you want to extend that guy for Juan Soto money? Where was this purported window where he established he was worth hundreds of millions for the next decade?

If he wanted to be paid like a superstar by the Jays (and they have showed a willingness to do so with other actual superstars), I would suggest performing like one. He simply didn’t do that.

Gosh, you just keep moving goalposts, don't you? Nobody said they should have signed him for Juan Soto money, but keep on arguing with your strawmen, I suppose.

Or even close to Juan Soto money given that he’s been a Pete Alonso/Jeff McNeil level player since he’s entered the league. You seem to be avoiding that point though.

[Duffman100]

And what happened in 2022 and 2023?

You won’t get paid superstar money in this league if you only hit like a superstar every 3 years or so. There’s literally been nothing consistent about this guy in his career other than the fact he can’t field or run.

Sure, but you said he's never performed close to a superstar level, that wasn't true.
You also equated him to Alonso, which doesn't quite lineup either. Vlad started at 20 years old where Alonso was at 24, which is skewing the overall WAR.

I'm not saying your wrong, I don't know if I'd paid him superstar money. I also don't like the FO that has painted themselves into a corner like this, with your top two players.

His career WAR is identical to Alonso and he plays the same position. It’s a perfectly reasonable comparison from a pure performance perspective. And obviously he’s had some good years, but if he was a consistent superstar, this team would have extended him by now. He’s not established himself to be that guy.

And again, he started at a much earlier age which skews that. The comparison is off, as is the statement he's never played like a superstar.

You have enough of an argument without making ones that aren't really accurate.

[Duffman100]

And what happened in 2022 and 2023?

You won’t get paid superstar money in this league if you only hit like a superstar every 3 years or so. There’s literally been nothing consistent about this guy in his career other than the fact he can’t field or run.

Sure, but you said he's never performed close to a superstar level, that wasn't true.
You also equated him to Alonso, which doesn't quite lineup either. Vlad started at 20 years old where Alonso was at 24, which is skewing the overall WAR.

I'm not saying your wrong, I don't know if I'd paid him superstar money. I also don't like the FO that has painted themselves into a corner like this, with your top two players.

His career WAR is identical to Alonso and he plays the same position. It’s a perfectly reasonable comparison from a pure performance perspective. And obviously he’s had some good years, but if he was a consistent superstar, this team would have extended him by now. He’s not established himself to be that guy.

And again, he started at a much earlier age which skews that. The comparison is off, as is the statement he's never played like a superstar.

You have enough of an argument without making ones that aren't really accurate.

[Randle McMurphy]

To compare leagues, the guy has not even proven himself to be Fred Vanvleet from a value perspective (who, by the way, Toronto fans on the whole wanted driven out of town) and people want the Jays to pay him like he’s a Luka Doncic level player (which he is seemingly demanding). It’s absurd.

[Randle McMurphy]

Sure, but you said he's never performed close to a superstar level, that wasn't true.
You also equated him to Alonso, which doesn't quite lineup either. Vlad started at 20 years old where Alonso was at 24, which is skewing the overall WAR.

I'm not saying your wrong, I don't know if I'd paid him superstar money. I also don't like the FO that has painted themselves into a corner like this, with your top two players.

His career WAR is identical to Alonso and he plays the same position. It’s a perfectly reasonable comparison from a pure performance perspective. And obviously he’s had some good years, but if he was a consistent superstar, this team would have extended him by now. He’s not established himself to be that guy.

And again, he started at a much earlier age which skews that. The comparison is off, as is the statement he's never played like a superstar.

You have enough of an argument without making ones that aren't really accurate.

I never said it was a perfect comparison. There’s a reason why the Jays presumably offered him quite a bit more than they did Alonso (his age and peak level). It’s still an apt one though given their positions and performance level.

[Jerry Lucas]

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[ItsDanger]

Vlad isn't worth the money he's allegedly asking for. Dude is acting like he's better than he is. That Tatis deal really screwed up the market. He wasn't worth it either.

[WuTang_CMB]

I personally have no issue with FO's decision not to overpay and extend him just for the sake of extending him. If he is asking for big money similar or close to Soto, and he's only had 1 superstar season, then it's the right call. I personally think Vladdy is over-rated and some of it is from the fans who love him that think is that type of player.

The issue I have now is that this FO should be pivoting in the right direction and not letting him go for nothing. It doesn't seem like they will trade him but that 100% should be the route they take.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[WuTang_CMB]

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[polo007]

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[polo007]

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[dagger]

From a negotiating standpoint, let's assume the Jays value him as a strong bat, foundational pillar, but unproven for the money he thinks he deserves. Let's assume they offered more than a power hitting first baseman in his prime would be offered by most teams, assuming all had a large pot of free agent money to begin with. From Vlad's standpoint, to have one of the real free spending teams meet his number, or close, he has to have a better season overall than he had last year. He cannot start slowly, because that would suggest numbers like he had last season. He needs a good start with no protracted slumps to reach near Soto numbers and hence near Soto money, and he has to avoid serious injury. Even a nagging injury he can play through that affects his performance could well make him less attractive by season-end.

Aaron Judge bet on himself like Vlad is doing, and it paid off handsomely - without having to change teams.

An unknown, perhaps for both sides, is how Vlad will react if the Jays over perform and look like they have nice upside, or underperform (again). He says he wants to be on a winner. How much will that factor into his decision?