Game 73: Boston Celtics (53-19) @ Phoenix Suns (35-37) | Mar 26 | 7:00 PM

[bwgood77]

This is the same team that beat the Cavs and Bucks. The Celtics are great but they caught fire tonight and KP after years all of sudden played like the Knicks KP. With the way the Suns are playing lately I wouldn't say its a huge gap but I think the Suns are a terrible matchup going up against the Celtics because we don't have a stretch 5 who can also plays defense.

The Bucks are not great. They would be the 9th seed in the west. And they were without their 2nd best player, Lillard. So it was a nice win, but we were at home against a good but not great team missing a star player.

Cleveland was a nice win but they had lost 3 in a row coming in and were coming off a b2b. We will see how we do in the next 7 games which is a pretty tough schedule.

Agreed we should see what happens the next 7 games, but a lot of people here will think of any reason to dismiss a win. You can’t dismiss the Cavs win because they were struggling but then dismiss the Bulls win because…..they are a bad team? The Bulls are 8-2 in their last 10, including destroying the Lakers. Their only losses were a close loss at Houston and to us, which was not close. So they certainly aren’t struggling. And a 40 point win, like we had vs Toronto, should never be dismissed.

Anyone who thinks this should be a .500 team is crazy. It’s very rare for .500 teams to have 7 game win streaks like we did early in the season. We should be in the mix with the 2-6 seeds. Yes, a level or two below Boston and OKC, but they have their issues too. And I’d love to see us matchup with them with KD at the 5. They likely would have to match our small lineup and Horford wouldn’t be able to stay on the floor. And they are welcome to try to post up KD instead of getting open 3s.

It's generally been good to see us playing well, but I've been disappointed in our season overall, and I don't see us improving with by far our most important player this year, KD, getting older. I thought we would be in the mix for the 2 seed, but we have been terrible. We only have a couple of decisive wins all season and often our wins have come against teams missing key star players.

I just expected a lot more and feel we should build from the ground up and build a young athletic team with a strong defense and strong shooting. I definitely expected us to be FAR better than hovering around the 10 or 11 spot much of the season. Frankly we are lucky Dallas missed AD for so long, Lively for longer, Gafford for quite a while and Kyrie is out for the season. No way we'd be close to them had those guys stayed healthy. We may still finish behind them even with Kyrie and Lively out.

[Hitachi77]

The Bucks are not great. They would be the 9th seed in the west. And they were without their 2nd best player, Lillard. So it was a nice win, but we were at home against a good but not great team missing a star player.

Cleveland was a nice win but they had lost 3 in a row coming in and were coming off a b2b. We will see how we do in the next 7 games which is a pretty tough schedule.

Agreed we should see what happens the next 7 games, but a lot of people here will think of any reason to dismiss a win. You can’t dismiss the Cavs win because they were struggling but then dismiss the Bulls win because…..they are a bad team? The Bulls are 8-2 in their last 10, including destroying the Lakers. Their only losses were a close loss at Houston and to us, which was not close. So they certainly aren’t struggling. And a 40 point win, like we had vs Toronto, should never be dismissed.

Anyone who thinks this should be a .500 team is crazy. It’s very rare for .500 teams to have 7 game win streaks like we did early in the season. We should be in the mix with the 2-6 seeds. Yes, a level or two below Boston and OKC, but they have their issues too. And I’d love to see us matchup with them with KD at the 5. They likely would have to match our small lineup and Horford wouldn’t be able to stay on the floor. And they are welcome to try to post up KD instead of getting open 3s.

It's generally been good to see us playing well, but I've been disappointed in our season overall, and I don't see us improving with by far our most important player this year, KD, getting older. I thought we would be in the mix for the 2 seed, but we have been terrible. We only have a couple of decisive wins all season and often our wins have come against teams missing key star players.

I just expected a lot more and feel we should build from the ground up and build a young athletic team with a strong defense and strong shooting. I definitely expected us to be FAR better than hovering around the 10 or 11 spot much of the season. Frankly we are lucky Dallas missed AD for so long, Lively for longer, Gafford for quite a while and Kyrie is out for the season. No way we'd be close to them had those guys stayed healthy. We may still finish behind them even with Kyrie and Lively out.

No doubt, agreed with all of the above. It’s unfortunate because there’s strong evidence we should have a much better record, but KD is too old to try to keep it together.

[garrick]

Agreed we should see what happens the next 7 games, but a lot of people here will think of any reason to dismiss a win. You can’t dismiss the Cavs win because they were struggling but then dismiss the Bulls win because…..they are a bad team? The Bulls are 8-2 in their last 10, including destroying the Lakers. Their only losses were a close loss at Houston and to us, which was not close. So they certainly aren’t struggling. And a 40 point win, like we had vs Toronto, should never be dismissed.

Anyone who thinks this should be a .500 team is crazy. It’s very rare for .500 teams to have 7 game win streaks like we did early in the season. We should be in the mix with the 2-6 seeds. Yes, a level or two below Boston and OKC, but they have their issues too. And I’d love to see us matchup with them with KD at the 5. They likely would have to match our small lineup and Horford wouldn’t be able to stay on the floor. And they are welcome to try to post up KD instead of getting open 3s.

It's generally been good to see us playing well, but I've been disappointed in our season overall, and I don't see us improving with by far our most important player this year, KD, getting older. I thought we would be in the mix for the 2 seed, but we have been terrible. We only have a couple of decisive wins all season and often our wins have come against teams missing key star players.

I just expected a lot more and feel we should build from the ground up and build a young athletic team with a strong defense and strong shooting. I definitely expected us to be FAR better than hovering around the 10 or 11 spot much of the season. Frankly we are lucky Dallas missed AD for so long, Lively for longer, Gafford for quite a while and Kyrie is out for the season. No way we'd be close to them had those guys stayed healthy. We may still finish behind them even with Kyrie and Lively out.

No doubt, agreed with all of the above. It’s unfortunate because there’s strong evidence we should have a much better record, but KD is too old to try to keep it together.

The way I see it if we keep the current squad even with a couple additions we are at best a 2nd round exit and likely a 1st round exit which is the exact definition of a treadmill team.

We likely are not going to find a trading partner to offload Beal and if we are not going to cut Cody Martin then we still will be in the 2nd apron hell so we are not going to be able to add much to this roster and expecting Oso and Dunn to make huge leaps next year isn't realistic either since neither are star players.

It would be one thing if we still had all our picks but we have zero lottery picks and the picks we do have are very late 1sts which we likely are not going to be drafting all star talent unless a miracle happens.

[Ghost of Kleine]

In the sentence "targeting merchenaries on big contracts like KD, Beal, Butler, PG, etc."

Well, I just say that we need to keep building around KD and Book putting better defensive/active players around them.

Gillespie, Royce, Cody Martin, Dunn and Oso fits nicely and we can add to them in the summer.

While I do agree with you on the premise of adding around what we have because we obviously need more key pieces to address positional issues, I'm curious as to how we'll accomplish this without assets if we're keeping KD?

Acknowledging that KD has been truly amazing and we'd be obviously worse without him, but absent of utilizing KDs' value in a trade, what other legitimate assets do we have to add these key pieces this summer? Maybe Allen and O'neale and our CLE picks? But to what end?


Allen hasn't been playing very well since returning from injury. Those picks aren't considered very good if having positive value beyond neutral. What would O'neale really get us as a streaky undersized forward on a multiyear deal. Our assets are just severely limited and not all that good. And if keeping KD which would be somewhat logical given his play, we again won't have cap flexibility to get under the 2nd apron.


So beyond minimum players, we won't have cap space to sign good players. And if we give up our CLE picks in trades, then we surrender our v er r last options for long term cost control talent on a team already severely limited in that context.

You're right man that we need to try and add around KD and Booker if KD chooses to stay, but I'm fairly skeptical of our abilities or mechanisms to do so?

First and foremost I would try to trade Beal adding a late FRP to his contract. Not more than that.
If that's not possible I would waive and stretch Beal (most likely outcome) to get us under the 2nd apron and It's possible that we can get even under the 1st apron with a couple of easy roster moves.

I would try to get Marcus Smart (around $20M) who is on the Wizards just waiting to be traded. Grayson Allen + Nick Richards + 2nd. Frank Lee talked about this option.

He would be our own Jrue Holiday to play next to Book, Dunn and KD. The fit looks perfect on paper.

Then we can sign a C with the full Mid-Level exception. Clint Capela, Brook Lopez, Al Horford, andd another veteran Cs will be UFAs. And we can use the Biannual Exception on another role player. Then we would add a rookie with #29.

Well, that's a quick answer but enough to explain you that there will be good options with KD and Book on the team next year.

Thanks for sharing those ideas man. I do like the idea of Marcus Smart, but are you sure Washington actually intends to trade him? And I'll ask you the same question that I asked Frank.

Why would Washington have interest in trading for Allen on a more expensive deal when they already have a full stable of SG,/SFs' in Kispert, Bey, George, Johnson (who's been breaking out recently too) and Jones. All playing really well and are on much cheaper cost effective contracts?

And although attaching a 1st to Beal is an option towards trading Beal, I personally wouldn't do it because I consider it very shortsighted if you consider how already very limited our remaining assets are over the next 5-6 years. I also wouldn't waive/ stretch Beal just for the privilege of trying up 22 million over the next 5 years or 36 million of stretched over 3 yrs because either would be a very poor management decision only prolonging restrictions for us.

And ultimately accomplishing very little in comparison to simply looking to move him the following summer as an enormous expiring contract that would obviously be a HUGE trade asset. We'd be much better served to simply bring him off the bench as a nuclear scoring super 6th man.

BUT NOT TRY TO BE CLEVER AND STILL BRING HIM IN AFTER A FEW MINUTES ALONGSIDE OF KD and Booker as coach Bud has tried to subtly keep doing. And then he either boosts our bench scoring while not impacting our starting rotation, OR he finally gives in and accepts being traded somewhere by the trade deadline.

But it'd be negligent to give up more assets or tie up significant cap space for multiple years just to impatiently move off if Beal when it's not realistically going to dramatically alter our overall trajectory anyways. We have to make the right decisions now and exercise patience and foresight and not rash impulsivity as a go to mechanism.

I would endorse an Allen trade to Orlando for Bidatze for better center depth to replace Plumlee though. And I like the Marcus Smart suggestion, but just don't see the interest from Washington's side man.

[Ghost of Kleine]

While I don’t really disagree, 2 years ago an 8 seed beat the Celtics ass, and also beat the Bucks ass, the two finals favorites going into the playoffs. Last year a 5 seed Mavs team got to the finals fairly easily, and the Celtics never had to play a team seeded higher than 4.

And I get it, that Heat team was the polar opposite of us in terms of mental toughness, and they have the best coach in the league. But the point is crazy stuff happens pretty much every year, very different from what it used to be. And while it’s obvious that the odds are against us to even make the playoffs (win 2 playin games), there just isn’t that bulletproof team sitting out there. The closest thing would be the Celtics but they’ve proven to be capable of solid choke jobs. And OKC is unproven in the playoffs. And after that, you have only good teams left, not great.

I can also agree there is 1.025% chance(though bookies say less) Suns win a championship this season. Let's stay positive.

+10000000 % correct man.
I'm a positive person....lol Based on those odds, I can say I'm absolutely positive that we're not a legitimate contender and I'm also very positive that the longer we try to force this failed experiment, the longer our painful rebuild will become too.

[Ghost of Kleine]

It's generally been good to see us playing well, but I've been disappointed in our season overall, and I don't see us improving with by far our most important player this year, KD, getting older. I thought we would be in the mix for the 2 seed, but we have been terrible. We only have a couple of decisive wins all season and often our wins have come against teams missing key star players.

I just expected a lot more and feel we should build from the ground up and build a young athletic team with a strong defense and strong shooting. I definitely expected us to be FAR better than hovering around the 10 or 11 spot much of the season. Frankly we are lucky Dallas missed AD for so long, Lively for longer, Gafford for quite a while and Kyrie is out for the season. No way we'd be close to them had those guys stayed healthy. We may still finish behind them even with Kyrie and Lively out.

No doubt, agreed with all of the above. It’s unfortunate because there’s strong evidence we should have a much better record, but KD is too old to try to keep it together.

The way I see it if we keep the current squad even with a couple additions we are at best a 2nd round exit and likely a 1st round exit which is the exact definition of a treadmill team.

We likely are not going to find a trading partner to offload Beal and if we are not going to cut Cody Martin then we still will be in the 2nd apron hell so we are not going to be able to add much to this roster and expecting Oso and Dunn to make huge leaps next year isn't realistic either since neither are star players.

It would be one thing if we still had all our picks but we have zero lottery picks and the picks we do have are very late 1sts which we likely are not going to be drafting all star talent unless a miracle happens.

Ssshhhh!! You're not supposed to be sharing logic or the inconvenient truth here man! Some will get upset if you try and wake them up from their delusions. And when our rebuild becomes twice as long as it would've been if we had traded KD and/ or Book, etc.


And many of these same people will predictability complain about why we didn't do something to try and avoid such a long painful rebuild outcome. Itd be comical if it wasn't so very sad and unnecessary.

[Ghost of Kleine]

This is the same team that beat the Cavs and Bucks. The Celtics are great but they caught fire tonight and KP after years all of sudden played like the Knicks KP. With the way the Suns are playing lately I wouldn't say its a huge gap but I think the Suns are a terrible matchup going up against the Celtics because we don't have a stretch 5 who can also plays defense.

The Bucks are not great. They would be the 9th seed in the west. And they were without their 2nd best player, Lillard. So it was a nice win, but we were at home against a good but not great team missing a star player.

Cleveland was a nice win but they had lost 3 in a row coming in and were coming off a b2b. We will see how we do in the next 7 games which is a pretty tough schedule.

Agreed we should see what happens the next 7 games, but a lot of people here will think of any reason to dismiss a win. You can’t dismiss the Cavs win because they were struggling but then dismiss the Bulls win because…..they are a bad team? The Bulls are 8-2 in their last 10, including destroying the Lakers. Their only losses were a close loss at Houston and to us, which was not close. So they certainly aren’t struggling. And a 40 point win, like we had vs Toronto, should never be dismissed.

Anyone who thinks this should be a .500 team is crazy. It’s very rare for .500 teams to have 7 game win streaks like we did early in the season. We should be in the mix with the 2-6 seeds. Yes, a level or two below Boston and OKC, but they have their issues too. And I’d love to see us matchup with them with KD at the 5. They likely would have to match our small lineup and Horford wouldn’t be able to stay on the floor. And they are welcome to try to post up KD instead of getting open 3s.

Just like many here would also look for any reasons to delude themselves into believing that we're a legitimate playoff team and a contender. And yes you can absolutely dismiss the Cavs win because they were struggling when the larger sample size with having close to the best record in the NBA and a recent 16 game win streak and a blowout win against us in our first encounter.


Then for the reasons Bgood already mentioned with them just in the midst of a 4 game losing streak and their star player in Mitchell not close to playing up to his season average. How many 4 game losing streaks do they have this season man? How many win streaks of 3 games or more do we have in our entire season. The records/ standings don't lie and tell the truth of who this team really is.

And for Chicago, again, what superstar or franchise players did they have to compete against us? They have none! Giddey is a good starter level player but not yet a star. Vucevic and White are solid but also not legitimate star or superstar players.

And beating the lakers doesn't mean that much with the lakers struggling too against teams, and on their own losing streak recently too. Chicago is currently the 9th seed, so still a lottery team. And it took 40 points from Booker just for us to beat them.

And is it more crazy to think we're a. 500 team when we've been that or under for pretty much all season or to utilize flawed logic premises to rationalize being better than we clearly aren't. And say we should be, but the reality is still reflected in the standings and dire situation we're constantly in!

So we had a singular 7 game win streak early in the season, how many win streaks have we had since then? How many 7 game win streaks? You claim that we should be in the mix for a 2-6 seed, but we're well over 70 games and nowhere near that position. Why do you suppose that is man?


If you're right and we're legitimately much better than our record reflects, why aren't we already in the top 6 by now? Why are we just fighting to even make the play in? What are we waiting for to dominate everyone in our final 6 games or something?


Look, I'd love for us to be legitimate contenders or even a top 6 seed rather than a treadmilling fringe lottery team hemorrhaging lottery picks to other arrogant teams while having no legitimate future. But the reality is what it is. And pretending it's something else than that just won't change the outcome for us.

I've been waiting close to 50 years for them to bring home the championship! But I've followed them long enough through all of their epic and creatively embarassing collapses to recognize when things aren't working.

Unfortunately this is just another example. Well intended, but very poorly thought out and executed. And now we're all suffering the consequences of very poor decisions.

Some would choose to ignore the inconvenient truth and keep putting bandaids on a sinking ship! I for my part rather recognize it's sinking and tow it back to port and do a complete rebuild rather than close my eyes to an inevitable outcome. Everyone is entitled to their own prerogative here. But I'd prefer to get things fully corrected over futile half measures.

[thamadkant]

Suns are horrible.

This loss reminds people that the suns are far from being a contender.

Again, the Suns win streak was fools gold.

I expect them to lose most of the next 7 games purely because the Suns suck ass

[bwgood77]

It's generally been good to see us playing well, but I've been disappointed in our season overall, and I don't see us improving with by far our most important player this year, KD, getting older. I thought we would be in the mix for the 2 seed, but we have been terrible. We only have a couple of decisive wins all season and often our wins have come against teams missing key star players.

I just expected a lot more and feel we should build from the ground up and build a young athletic team with a strong defense and strong shooting. I definitely expected us to be FAR better than hovering around the 10 or 11 spot much of the season. Frankly we are lucky Dallas missed AD for so long, Lively for longer, Gafford for quite a while and Kyrie is out for the season. No way we'd be close to them had those guys stayed healthy. We may still finish behind them even with Kyrie and Lively out.

No doubt, agreed with all of the above. It’s unfortunate because there’s strong evidence we should have a much better record, but KD is too old to try to keep it together.

The way I see it if we keep the current squad even with a couple additions we are at best a 2nd round exit and likely a 1st round exit which is the exact definition of a treadmill team.

We likely are not going to find a trading partner to offload Beal and if we are not going to cut Cody Martin then we still will be in the 2nd apron hell so we are not going to be able to add much to this roster and expecting Oso and Dunn to make huge leaps next year isn't realistic either since neither are star players.

It would be one thing if we still had all our picks but we have zero lottery picks and the picks we do have are very late 1sts which we likely are not going to be drafting all star talent unless a miracle happens.

It's really hard to see us getting better if we keep KD as he is getting older, as good as he still is. And we have a late pick, and may get a good player, but just about every other team will have a better pick. And as good as Dunn is, there were a lot of good rookies this season.

The Spurs will obviously be a lot better next year and I don't see being as good as them. The Blazers are getting better. Utah will probably start to build up more instead of kind of being in tank mode. The only team that may get worse in my opinion is the Clippers. Possibly the Lakers, but I feel Luka will still make them relevant, and they have some good defenders around them, and if LeBron keeps playing, he never seems to get much worse. He's not what he used to be, but obviously still a big impact player. Reeves, Knecht, DFS, etc are all solid and some others like Rui and Vanderbilt or solid rotation players.