Sixers' Iguodala has faith he can play for larger fortune

[SendEm]

Iggy is alot like Larry Hughes in the respect that his half court effectiveness is predicated upon him dribbling the basketball and having autonomy

He scored 12 ppg on 50% shooting in his second season. Are you trying tell me that production was predicated on him having autonomy and dribbling the basketball? The fact that now he can actually do stuff off the dribble is to his credit. But to say he NEEDS the ball to be effective is completely false unless you think he's forgotten how to play the way he did in his first 2 seasons.

He was a starter playing like 40 minutes per game. 12 points from a perimeter starter who plays 40 minutes per game is atrocious and not worth $11.5. I believe that he has progressed far enough that he can be good for 16ppg if placed back in the same position, again not worth $11.5 million per season. But by no means could he ever average 20 points in a team with better talent because LESS plays will be called for him and his strong suit ISN'T playing off of other players, just look at what he averaged while Iverson and Webber were here...[/u]

[freshie2]

...and with that, good night. This has to be a relative or Ricky.

[noone]

...and with that, good night. This has to be a relative or Ricky.

Yeah, I'm not sure why I bother. He goes in circles and side-steps any questions/comments he doesn't have answers/responses to.

I didn't mention anything about salary, only that his assertion that Andre wouldn't fit on a team where he'd be expected to play a role was false. After a couple posts of going in circles about salary and stuff, he comes back with Andre being able to average 16 ppg next to Iverson and Webber. I'm not sure in what world that isn't effectively filling your role, but oh well..

[drewfogarty]

I believe that had Stephanski been the GM he would have offered Iggy the $50 that Ben Gordan and Deng were offered. But with that said I wonder why the NETS overpaid for Vince Carter with that extension. Anyone could see that he was losing it and playing on vapors to do well in his contract season. It's no shocker that Vince is not doing what was expected of him this season. I hope Stephanski isn't a generous GM like B. King...

I believe that the owners decided to pay Carter that money over the GM's recomendations of less. I can't quote that, but I know I read it on RealGM earlier this season.

for Iggy the knife could cut 2 ways, since the 2 Bulls players turned down the $50 million contracts and sucked this year they might get less in their next contract. IF this is the case, Iggy might get less because the market is lower (or perhaps we can say Iggy is no longer in that "class of players" and gets paid differently). If Deng and Gordon sign for $50 million (how I don't know) then Iggy can claim he deserves more. (of course this all goes IF AND ONLY IF Iggys signs after them).

In my opinion he isn't a superstar yet. he should follow C. Butler's approach and get good money now and superstar money on the next contract.

[drewfogarty]

another thing to consider. while his stats are not exact (And surely this year is not the one to compare them), look at AK47's stats before Boozer started to play well (and this is key see below). both AK47 and Iggy do alot of stuff well, but not the best in the league. AK47 had great stats on an ok/bad team and now with the addition of other good players his stats dropped (putting aside the crying and drama surrounding the situation).

No one here is going to say that AK47 deserves what he is getting paid; we probably can all agree (probably) that he is overpaid. While I am not saying Iggy is AK47, the situtation could turn out to be similar. we pay superstar money, bring in a really good player and Iggy's stats drop and we know he isn't a superstar (some already believe that) and he is deemed OVERPAID and we have to live with it for 4 or 5 years.

I think Ed is smarter than that. While I don't want to lose Iggy, if he wants too much, we find someone who wants to overpay him and make a trade. I just want the 76ers to be good again. I think T. Young is going to be a very good player so we already have another sf in the wings if we lose Iggy.

an aside, can anyone tell me about the protected first rounder we should be getting from Utah for Korver? it is not on the "future draft picks" page yet and other trades have gone down and their picks are on the page already.

[SendEm]

another thing to consider. while his stats are not exact (And surely this year is not the one to compare them), look at AK47's stats before Boozer started to play well (and this is key see below). both AK47 and Iggy do alot of stuff well, but not the best in the league. AK47 had great stats on an ok/bad team and now with the addition of other good players his stats dropped (putting aside the crying and drama surrounding the situation).

No one here is going to say that AK47 deserves what he is getting paid; we probably can all agree (probably) that he is overpaid. While I am not saying Iggy is AK47, the situtation could turn out to be similar. we pay superstar money, bring in a really good player and Iggy's stats drop and we know he isn't a superstar (some already believe that) and he is deemed OVERPAID and we have to live with it for 4 or 5 years.

I think Ed is smarter than that. While I don't want to lose Iggy, if he wants too much, we find someone who wants to overpay him and make a trade. I just want the 76ers to be good again. I think T. Young is going to be a very good player so we already have another sf in the wings if we lose Iggy.

an aside, can anyone tell me about the protected first rounder we should be getting from Utah for Korver? it is not on the "future draft picks" page yet and other trades have gone down and their picks are on the page already.

Hmmmm, I like the AK47 comparison but even a few seasons ago he was a much more dynamic player than Iggy with his astronomical blocked shot stat. I believe that AK47's demise can also be attributed to Jerry Sloan riding him, Jerry Sloan is an abusive guy. Back then I really liked him as a player but by no means was he a max level player but he did make an All Star game at some point back then and possibly his "#1 pick in fantasy basketball draft" status overrated him.

For the record averaging 16ppg as a $11.5 million dollar player IS NOT what I would considered "performing well." That's the point total that I believe Iggy would average on a talented team. Iggy wants to get paid like he is ALREADY better and has more potential than Magette, Caron Butler, Manu Ginobili, Josh Howard, and Kevin Martin. Iggy is nothing like those players, all of those players are flat out scorers and shooters. Iggy has a little bit of Boris Diaw in his game where he over dribbles and over passes the ball to compensate for his shortcomings with finishing the ball in traffic. On a good team the ball will be taken OUT OF IGGY'S HANDS and he will be required to JUST FINISH THE PLAY. He is average at best at just finishing the play in a half court offense. He will look more like he did back when Iverson and Webber were here overpassing the ball and looking timid once a driving lane closes up on persuading him to pass up a scoring attempt and/or a chance to get fouled, Corey Magette would THRIVE in that position.

[freshie2]

A good night's sleep, and not much has changed. Now we bring Corey Magette into the discussion. He's not Magette, Butler, Ginobili, Howard or Martin, but he's a little Diaw.

What he accurately could be categorized as is an improving leader on a borderline playoff team who is approaching a big contract decision. Going into the season, people wanted to see him improve his outside shot (if you watch the games, you can see this is done), decrease his TOs from last season (after a bad start, he's down to about 2.4/game...done), and for me, hit the big shot late in the game (done...he hits more late game/late shot clock buckets than Iverson did until much later in his career). The one area where I would like to see him improve is foul shooting...he needs to get back over 80% like last season. He's not staying consistent through the shot each time...he's not shooting a bad percentage, but this is a correctable issue.

As much as he get's bashed for the step back jumper, he's hitting it with increasing consistency, and is developing into a go to move...something that you need in this league if you are going to hit big shots late in the game. Not many players in the league can defend a perimeter step back jumper from a 6'6" shooter with a high release point.

The last 20 games will tell a lot about where he is, what kind of contract he deserves, and the direction in which this franchise is heading. It will be interesting to see how things unfold.

As far as the comparisons...Ginobili and Butler are good comparisons, and we should hope that when Iguodala is nearly 28 (Butler) and 30 (Ginobili) he is as good as they have become. Your comparisons may be more valid if you compare where those players were at the same age instead of what they have become...that probably actually strengthens anyone's case who is 'pro' Iguodala. Take a look at where they were at age 23-24. Same thing with Howard (approaching 28), although I don't know how far behind Iguodala is at this point.

Martin is purely a scoring 2G, averaging 23 ppg...if all you are going to do is score, get up around 28ppg. Magette baffles me...why bring him into the discussion when he's shown nothing to be better than Iguodala, even though Iguodala is much younger?

This really gets old...you go from journeyman players who have small salaries, to much older players who have developed in a similar trajectory as Iguodala...and what's the point? Early contract extensions are a risk for everyone not named Lebron. Based on your comparisons, Iguodala's deal this off season probably will be a well calculated risk.

[SendEm]

Martin is purely a scoring 2G, averaging 23 ppg...if all you are going to do is score, get up around 28ppg. Magette baffles me...why bring him into the discussion when he's shown nothing to be better than Iguodala, even though Iguodala is much younger?

He said that all Kevin Martin does is score, doesn't that sound like when Buddy Ryan said "All Chris Carter does is score touchdowns"

BTW Kevin Martin is only one of the top 5 shooters in the NBA...

All of what you said is nullified due to the fact that there have been and are players YOUNGER than Iggy right now in the NBA playing his very same position who have made it to ALL Star game(s). You bring up Iggy being younger than the perimeter players that I compared him to as if his "youth" is a plus. He's 24 years of age, he's not a 19 or 20 year old. As far as perimeters players go, what you see at age 24 is going to be pretty much what you get, ESPECIALLY for a player that has played 40 minutes per game since he entered the NBA.

The pull up jump shot of a 6'6" player is VERY easy to stop when he has an average at best driving ability. You couple that with the fact that his entire pull up game is geared towards the middle of the floor and you have someone that is easy to take out of his game. In a playoff series you won't see any defenders just eying Iggy as he lulls them to sleep with his dribble then pull up in front of the basket for a mid range jumpshot or even a 3 pointer like during the regular season. During the playoffs scouting reports are adhered to ardently.Players that utilize that move usually do so to COMPLIMENT their SUPERIOR driving skills like Jordan, Iverson, Kobe, Vince, and Baron Davis. Iggy uses the pull up as his GO TO move. Once a defender decides to play him closely what is Iggy going to do? He's going to pass the ball after putting it on the floor or pull up for a fadeaway off of the dribble, or even the rare drive to the basket where he puts up an ugly weak shot. Jordan, Vince, Kobe, Iverson, Baron Davis, and Manu Ginobili want a defender to guard the pull up so that they can drive to the hole and dunk on the center. Iggy is NOT dunking on anyone's center for the rest of his career ESPECIALLY not in the playoffs.

At 24 years of age on a team where he has a green light and plays 40 minutes a night you would expect Iggy to have made an All Star game or atleast put up some awesome numbers if he is truly a $11.5 million+ plus like he claims to be. How can a player that wants elite money have it both ways? The Sixers are a losing franchise AND Iggy puts up just decent numbers for a "star player" yet he wants franchise player money?That sounds like a very bad investment in a 24 year old player considering what other players have done in the NBA at the same age. If a guy is the "franchise player" on a losing team ATLEAST dominate games like Al Jefferson is doing or have a winning record and make an All Star game like Brandon Roy.


Iggy 19.7 5.5 4.6
Players Statistics at 23-24
Joe Johnson 20.2ppg 6.5 assists 4.1 rebounds 40 minutes
Jim Jackson 25.7ppg 3.7assists 5.1rebounds
Hersey Hawkins 22.1 3.7 3.9
Kendall Gill 20.5 4.2 5.1
Mitch Richmond 22.0 4.2 5.9
Latrell Sprewell 21.0 4.7 4.9
Ron Harper 22.9 4.8 4.8
Michael Finley 21.5 4.4 5.2
Jeff Malone 22.4 2.4 3.6
Jamal Mashburn 23.4 2.8 5.4

What Iggy is doing has been done by many players at his position at the same age. I left the obvious names out. I also predicted a few weeks ago that his scoring average would rise after the All Star break approaching the end of the season while going up against teams that are tanking much like Shawn Bradley use to do while he was here. I received some backlash while comparing him to Shawn Bradley and people missed the ultimate message.

[freshie2]

It's tough to read all the nonsense, but I think you may have helped my point more than your own by adding in those players @ 23-24...Iguodala is in that category, and he hasn't reached the ceiling yet. The players you mentioned in the earlier arguement didn't comare favorably to Iguodala at the same age, which further strengthens the pro Iguodala argument. If you are watching the games, it is very evident there are still improvements being made. He's never going to be a 28ppg player, but I don't know that he needs to be.

The one nice thing is that your comparisons have gone from journeyman players (Moon, Mason) to some older quality NBA players (Howard, Manu, Butler) and now some historical quality NBA careers...all of which, Iguodala seems to fit right in.

The one thing about expressing your views too much when all you have is nonsense is you sometimes refute your own claims. One more long rambling from you, and you'll be supporting Iguodala getting $12 million a year!!

[Sixerscan]

You can keep saying that 5 years $57 million is franchise player money all you want, it doesn't make it true. He's going to be in the 40s as far as top paid goes.

[SendEm]

You can keep saying that 5 years $57 million is franchise player money all you want, it doesn't make it true. He's going to be in the 40s as far as top paid goes.

But he TURNED DOWN $57 million LOOKING FOR MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
$11.5 million is ALL STAR elite money for a perimeter player. Here are the Salaries of NBA players from last season, see where $11.5 million ranks among perimeter players...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/b ... index.html

Now he TURNED DOWN $11.5 million what is he looking for Ray Allen money? Paul Pierce money? or is it Joe Johnson?

[freshie2]

Good point Sixerscan. Maybe it's easier to break this down differently...and without a lot of other text.

1) Is Iguodala better than Moon, Mason, et al (Journeyman arguement)?

2) You'll have to look back a bit, but do you gamble on giving Iguodala a 5/57 type of deal given the level of play of Ginobili, Howard, Butler from age 27-29 (the middle to end of Iguodala's 5 year extension). Look at their games @ 24, compared to where they are now.

3) Would we be better off locking up Iguodala if he is in the category below, or should the Sixers start over in finding a player in this category? You get into the era of the game discussion for this one, but it's not like they are locking up Willie Burton long term.

Iggy 19.7 5.5 4.6
Players Statistics at 23-24
Joe Johnson 20.2ppg 6.5 assists 4.1 rebounds 40 minutes
Jim Jackson 25.7ppg 3.7assists 5.1rebounds
Hersey Hawkins 22.1 3.7 3.9
Kendall Gill 20.5 4.2 5.1
Mitch Richmond 22.0 4.2 5.9
Latrell Sprewell 21.0 4.7 4.9
Ron Harper 22.9 4.8 4.8
Michael Finley 21.5 4.4 5.2
Jeff Malone 22.4 2.4 3.6
Jamal Mashburn 23.4 2.8 5.4

[freshie2]

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But he TURNED DOWN $57 million LOOKING FOR MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
$11.5 million is ALL STAR elite money for a perimeter player. Here are the Salaries of NBA players from last season, see where $11.5 million ranks among perimeter players...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/b ... index.html

Now he TURNED DOWN $11.5 million what is he looking for Ray Allen money? Paul Pierce money? or is it Joe Johnson?

When is the targeted date for the new CBA? Aren't the salaries supposed to skyrocket then? Iguodala's deal may look like a bargain basement deal at that time.

From this list, he'd be somewhere around Richard Jefferson which isn't too crazy a comparison...23/4/3 player @ age 27. There are busts in this list, there are old players in this list. Iguodala doesn't appear to fall into the Marbury/Francis 'bust' category, nor the Eddie Jones, Jalen Rose 'end of the career' category. If he's in the 30-40 range with this deal, that's not crazy.

[SendEm]

-= original quote snipped =-

If he's in the 30-40 range with this deal, that's not crazy.

"That's not crazy" isn't a sound logical method of making decisions, ESPECIALLY when concerning inking athletes to long term big dollar contracts. LMAO!!
What are the other values on a decision making scale that includes a "that's not crazy?"










Are you Billy King?

[CPops57]

An evaluation of him based almost entirely on rating his scoring ability is missing a lot of the value that Iggy brings to the table. There's a lot more to basketball.

For instance, given that there are so many good scoring SGs in the NBA, isn't it a good thing to have one on the Sixers who not only isn't a defensive liability like so many others are, but one who is actually pretty darn good defensively?

I'm not saying that Iggy is worth the 75 million or whatever he's seeking. Ed has to consider the market and try and get him for a favorable deal. Hopefully he's a much better negotiator than Billy King and can somehow get him for less than the 57 million originally offered.

To me, the real problem on the team isn't Iggy's lack of a really superior offensive game, but the lack of a real PF. Adding even an average starting PF to this team is going to have an incredibly positive domino effect on every other player and position.

[freshie2]

[quote="SendEm"][/quote]

Try it this way...I can question if Iguodala ends up at the top of the list, but based on his known current quality and an upward trajectory that hasn't peaked, if he's in the 30-40 range on that list @ 24 years of age, it makes good business sense considering the industry in which you are competing.

Business wise, I'd love it if they signed him for the league minumum, but in reality, he has as much a case to be in the 20-40 range as the Sixers or any other team to put him in the 30-50 range. Iguodala landing on that list is reasonable.

[Sixers24]

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You have 35 posts, show some usefulness and prove that it WASN'T said...

And.....ignored.

[SendEm]

Iggy's defense is a little bit less than "pretty darn good." He may have played defense well earlier in his career but those days are gone. Larry Hughes even played defense well at 2 periods in his career, back when he was a rookie for the Sixers and during his contract year for the Wizards. You are supposed to bring your defense EVERY game. Some of you weirdos bring up the Kobe Bryant example of it being hard to play both ends of the floor, but Iggy is not Kobe Bryant he only scores 19 ppg and gets scored on by everybody and only guards the SF position since Willie Green is the SG. I would have loved to have seen Iggy guard Durant last night but he only got switched onto Durant on 1 play where he drove right by Iggy and Iggy swiped for the ball as Durant blew by him. Iggy also played the same matador defense on Gerald Wallace as Wallace blew past him for a monster jam.

The people that have Iggy's defense as a plus REALLY need to upgrade their mental software. There is a 2007-2008 release on Iggy's game that you need to install into your heads.

[freshie2]

The most truth in that jibberish (sorry...shouldn't use jibberish)was 'switched'. The Sixers defense on the perimeter is to switch on everything. If he were ever in a position to lock down a player, that would be different, but if you watch their defense, they switch on everything and help on almost every low post entry past, which doesn't put them in great position for perimeter defense.

I don't think Iguodala's defense is as good as what it was earlier in his career, but the scheme has changed quite a bit as well. Even considering that, he once again shouldn't be put in the matador defense category.

Honestly, I would have liked to see Iguodala match up on Durant straight up as well...that would have been fun to watch. Thad did a nice job the few times they did match up, but I would have liked to have seen Iguodala in a similar position.

[SendEm]

-= original quote snipped =-



Try it this way...I can question if Iguodala ends up at the top of the list, but based on his known current quality and an upward trajectory that hasn't peaked, if he's in the 30-40 range on that list @ 24 years of age, it makes good business sense considering the industry in which you are competing.

Business wise, I'd love it if they signed him for the league minumum, but in reality, he has as much a case to be in the 20-40 range as the Sixers or any other team to put him in the 30-50 range. Iguodala landing on that list is reasonable.

Iggy turned down more money than what Jason Richardson, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, Josh Howard, Kevin Martin, Steve Nash and Gilbert Arenas are being paid. HE TURNED IT DOWN! What sum was he actually looking to get? ALL of those players from 30-50 were bringing more to the table than Iggy at the time, without the use of retrospect. Well maybe not Derek Anderson...

Yao Ming got paid $12.5 million last season and Iggy turned down $11.5 million? *vomits*