Cade Cunningham

[Yuri Vaultin]

12 Points
2 Dimes
5 Turns
5-17 Shooting
0 Free Throw Attempts

You MUST be Josh Selby's biggest fan!

[Big J]

12 Points
2 Dimes
5 Turns
5-17 Shooting
0 Free Throw Attempts

You MUST be Josh Selby's biggest fan!

No, no, no silly. If you understood anything about summer league you would know that trash players routinely put up great numbers in SL. That part is meaningless.

However, it is a huuuge red flag if a high pick struggles in SL. Especially when it looks like they are having trouble generating space against lengthy pro level defenders.

[Duke4life831]

12 Points
2 Dimes
5 Turns
5-17 Shooting
0 Free Throw Attempts

You MUST be Josh Selby's biggest fan!

No, no, no silly. If you understood anything about summer league you would know that trash players routinely put up great numbers in SL. That part is meaningless.

However, it is a huuuge red flag if a high pick struggles in SL. Especially when it looks like they are having trouble generating space against lengthy pro level defenders.

What? There are countless examples of elite players who struggled in their first Summer League.

Off the top of my head, KAT was a struggle and a half his first summer league. Turned out pretty damn good on the offensive end since then.

[Yuri Vaultin]

You MUST be Josh Selby's biggest fan!

No, no, no silly. If you understood anything about summer league you would know that trash players routinely put up great numbers in SL. That part is meaningless.

However, it is a huuuge red flag if a high pick struggles in SL. Especially when it looks like they are having trouble generating space against lengthy pro level defenders.

What? There are countless examples of elite players who struggled in their first Summer League.

Off the top of my head, KAT was a struggle and a half his first summer league. Turned out pretty damn good on the offensive end since then.

Steph Curry to name another.

[Big J]

No, no, no silly. If you understood anything about summer league you would know that trash players routinely put up great numbers in SL. That part is meaningless.

However, it is a huuuge red flag if a high pick struggles in SL. Especially when it looks like they are having trouble generating space against lengthy pro level defenders.

What? There are countless examples of elite players who struggled in their first Summer League.

Off the top of my head, KAT was a struggle and a half his first summer league. Turned out pretty damn good on the offensive end since then.

Steph Curry to name another.

The difference between those guys is that they were still able to create space to get their shots off, they were just missing them. Cade is struggling with length and throwing up circus shots.

[yoyoboy]

Steph Curry didn’t look bad in Summer League. He just wasn’t hitting shots. We knew he was an all-time great shooter though.

Seeing him able to get inside consistently, draw 5.6 FTA per game, get 2.4 steals per game, post a positive AST/TO ratio, and grab 4.6 rebounds per game were all encouraging signs of his all-around game. Missing shots after getting yourself good looks in a small sample size of games is just about the least worrisome thing, especially when you’ve already proven yourself.

I said this after Trae struggled in his first Summer League game and everyone was freaking out:

Am I the only one who actually thought Young looked pretty good out there outside of a few bad shots? He's definitely quicker than people think and had no problem getting past defenders. At points he did a great job of leveraging his gravity as a shooter to set up open guys in the corner multiple times - it wasn't until later in the game he seemed to realize he could do this as well instead of just taking difficult shots - and he had a couple nice cross court passes out of drives that show off that vision he displayed in college. Also, he drew fouls well, which is a skill that I think can translate from college and is key to being a good scorer in the NBA so that you can get points even when your shot isn't falling. Finally, he was actually competing on defense and on the boards and doing a decent job using his quickness to stay in front of guys.

He has a long way to go, but it's really not hard at all to see why he went top 5. His shot was way off last night, but make no mistake the guy is a great shooter. This isn't Lonzo Ball who had a hot streak of shooting in college, but his prior shooting in high school and college FT% revealed that he might actually not be the shooter people expected. Trae is a phenomenal shooter and looked visibly nervous in his first pro game, even airballing his first couple. He'll be alright. I expect him to be a below average finisher at the hoop and poor defender in his first year, along with maybe having some turnover issues due to getting the reigns to the Atlanta offense from the get go, but he'll show off the shooting and passing that make him such a great prospect.

For reference, here are Stephen Curry's numbers from his first Summer League (5 games):

17.4 PPG / 4.2 APG / 4.6 RPG / 32.5% FG / 34.5% 3P

And he was 2 years older than Trae Young is now... but somehow he managed to turn into a top 3 player in the NBA and the best shooter ever. So don't be so quick to make sudden judgments on the guy's career.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1718711&hilit=trae&start=240

So for me it’s always just been about how they look out there rather than what they produce. Summer League may not be that telling when a guy balls out. But when a player in SL struggles significantly in concerning ways against the better competition, it’s usually a sign of things to come in the NBA. One game shouldn’t make anyone change their mind on Cade if they were high on him (or low on him like me lol), but if he struggles to penetrate the defense, draw fouls, and pass without generating a lot of turnovers the entire Summer League, that’s very discouraging.

[Roger Murdock]

The issue with Cade is I've yet to see him beat his man to the rim off the dribble consistently in college. Its hard to be an allstar if everything you have to do comes difficult. He might have to work 30-50% harder to get his offense than guys like Green will.

[peZt]

I was low on Cade all year long but I won't say anything definitive after one Summer League game tho he showed all the things I didn't like about him in College. Still to early

But one thing what I will never understand is, is how he was labeled the "safest" pick and the one with the highest floor in the draft. Cade, and like many other prospects of his profile, is as boom or bust as it comes. What are his main weaknesses, the major red flags from college? His athleticism, his inability to beat his man off the dribble and create his own shot and his subpar ballhandling and turnover numbers. Now if those weaknesses translate to the NBA, if he can't beat his defenders, if he can't get to the rim, if he has to settle for tough turnaround and fadeaway jumpers, how exactly will he excel? How can his floor be high, if those red flags persist? He either won't have those problems in the NBA and in that case he will be a superstar or he will have the same problems in which case he definitely won't be a good player. Cause which primary ballhandler can't beat his defenders and can't create their own shots?

And because I didn't believe that he would suddenly gain the speed and burst and ballhandling ability needed to develop those skills, I didn't see him as a top 5 prospect.

And the worst are those people who won't even accept a second opinion. If you dared critizice Cade during the season, you were an idiot who had no clue about Basketball. NBA Draft talks are filled with people like this. Every year they form a cult around certain prospects and won't accept any criticism or deviating opinions. This year Cade, last year they all thought Edwards was s*hit and Minnesota was stupid for taking him first and Hayes was the man, the year before JJJ was the second coming of KG and anybody who said something else was clueless. It's the discussion culture that annoys me when it comes to NBA prospects, they all think they are smarter than actual NBA scouts

[The Moose]

I was low on Cade all year long but I won't say anything definitive after one Summer League game tho he showed all the things I didn't like about him in College. Still to early

But one thing what I will never understand is, is how he was labeled the "safest" pick and the one with the highest floor in the draft. Cade, and like many other prospects of his profile, is as boom or bust as it comes. What are his main weaknesses, the major red flags from college? His athleticism, his inability to beat his man off the dribble and create his own shot and his subpar ballhandling and turnover numbers. Now if those weaknesses translate to the NBA, if he can't beat his defenders, if he can't get to the rim, if he has to settle for tough turnaround and fadeaway jumpers, how exactly will he excel? How can his floor be high, if those red flags persist? He either won't have those problems in the NBA and in that case he will be a superstar or he will have the same problems in which case he definitely won't be a good player. Cause which primary ballhandler can't beat his defenders and can't create their own shots?

And because I didn't believe that he would suddenly gain the speed and burst and ballhandling ability needed to develop those skills, I didn't see him as a top 5 prospect.

And the worst are those people who won't even accept a second opinion. If you dared critizice Cade during the season, you were an idiot who had no clue about Basketball. NBA Draft talks are filled with people like this. Every year they form a cult around certain prospects and won't accept any criticism or deviating opinions. This year Cade, last year they all thought Edwards was s*hit and Minnesota was stupid for taking him first and Hayes was the man, the year before JJJ was the second coming of KG and anybody who said something else was clueless. It's the discussion culture that annoys me when it comes to NBA prospects, they all think they are smarter than actual NBA scouts

The idea is that even if he's never able to make it as a lead/primary ball handler, his floor would still be a secondary or third playmaker with elite 3 point shooting, good leadership+intangible skills with a very long wingspan and good size for his position. Obviously that wouldn't be what you want from the 1st pick, but that would still be a good player. IMO the only way he is going to be a complete bust is if his 3pt shot just vanishes

[reamily]

Detroit envision his floor as klay thompson lite with pg skills or star version of bogdan bogdanovic

[Charm]

I just don't buy that he has the quickness to defend the perimeter...check out the following plays:

1:10:10
1:11:55
1:12:22
1:13:12
1:14:08
1:15:20
1:16:38
1:18:28
1:18:48

Again and again his lack of quickness on the perimeter is exposed during a critical stretch of the fourth quarter. NBA guards and wings are going to love attacking him when they get the opportunity, and I don't know how fixable it is.

Watch on YouTube

[ThatBoyNick]

If Livers was measured 6'5.75 barefoot at the combined...

Bro... Cade's really 6'5 under that afro

That's crazy, he was listed at 6'8 225... Is actually 6'5 217

They really measured him at the top of that fro and listed it

[bkseven]

I just don't buy that he has the quickness to defend the perimeter...check out the following plays:

1:10:10
1:11:55
1:12:22
1:13:12
1:14:08
1:15:20
1:16:38
1:18:28
1:18:48

Again and again his lack of quickness on the perimeter is exposed during a critical stretch of the fourth quarter. NBA guards and wings are going to love attacking him when they get the opportunity, and I don't know how fixable it is.

Watch on YouTube

Maybe you can look up what a screen in basketball is? Some of those plays were fast breaks or rebounds and the defender is not even set yet. And you even have one at 1:15:20 when the ball handler literally falls...

[clyde21]

why did you think he's 6-8 anyway? pretty obvious to anyone that watched closely he wasn't and it was discussed here and he was ranked accordingly

do yall just take listed heights at face value?

[ThatBoyNick]

why did you think he's 6-8 anyway? pretty obvious to anyone that watched closely he wasn't and it was discussed here and he was ranked accordingly

do yall just take listed heights at face value?

You can expect it to be an inch off, but 3? For a non-big? That is crazy

6'5 is Luke Kennards size, 6'8 is Paul George.

You're telling me you wouldn't be shocked if Kuminga was Mulder or Poole's size?

[clyde21]

why did you think he's 6-8 anyway? pretty obvious to anyone that watched closely he wasn't and it was discussed here and he was ranked accordingly

do yall just take listed heights at face value?

You can expect it to be an inch off, but 3? For a non-big? That is crazy

6'5 is Luke Kennards size, 6'8 is Paul George.

You're telling me you wouldn't be shocked if Kuminga was Mulder or Poole's size?

first of all, he was listed @ 6-8 in shoes

Liver @ combine was 6-7.25 in shoes

judging by that pic, Cade is 6-6ish in shoes, which was always my (and others) guess here.

[ThatBoyNick]

why did you think he's 6-8 anyway? pretty obvious to anyone that watched closely he wasn't and it was discussed here and he was ranked accordingly

do yall just take listed heights at face value?

You can expect it to be an inch off, but 3? For a non-big? That is crazy

6'5 is Luke Kennards size, 6'8 is Paul George.

You're telling me you wouldn't be shocked if Kuminga was Mulder or Poole's size?

first of all, he was listed @ 6-8 in shoes

Liver @ combine was 6-7.25 in shoes

judging by that pic, Cade is 6-6ish in shoes, which was always my (and others) guess here.

Kuminga was listed at 6'6 by the team he played for before being drafted, imagine if when he came in he was actually 6'3...That's all I'm saying.

Livers is 6'5.75 without shoes and is clearly taller than Cade. Cade probably is 6'6 with shoes because they add an inch, but we aren't supposed to be listing players height with shoes in the NBA anymore

[clyde21]

You can expect it to be an inch off, but 3? For a non-big? That is crazy

6'5 is Luke Kennards size, 6'8 is Paul George.

You're telling me you wouldn't be shocked if Kuminga was Mulder or Poole's size?

first of all, he was listed @ 6-8 in shoes

Liver @ combine was 6-7.25 in shoes

judging by that pic, Cade is 6-6ish in shoes, which was always my (and others) guess here.

Kuminga was listed at 6'6 by the team he played for before being drafted, imagine if when he came in he was actually 6'3...That's all I'm saying.

Livers is 6'5.75 without shoes and is clearly taller than Cade. Cade probably is 6'6 with shoes because they add an inch, but we aren't supposed to be listing players height with shoes in the NBA anymore

i know Livers' height...which is why I said Cade is 6-6 IN SHOES...which again is what everyone pretty much expected here...if you thought he's 6-8 in shoes that's your own problem tbh.

[Charm]

I just don't buy that he has the quickness to defend the perimeter...check out the following plays:

1:10:10
1:11:55
1:12:22
1:13:12
1:14:08
1:15:20
1:16:38
1:18:28
1:18:48

Again and again his lack of quickness on the perimeter is exposed during a critical stretch of the fourth quarter. NBA guards and wings are going to love attacking him when they get the opportunity, and I don't know how fixable it is.

Watch on YouTube

Maybe you can look up what a screen in basketball is? Some of those plays were fast breaks or rebounds and the defender is not even set yet. And you even have one at 1:15:20 when the ball handler literally falls...

The point isn't that Cade got scored on every single time...that would be crazy. The point is, you can see across all these plays that there's very little quickness, effort, or physicality from him on the perimeter. That's consistent with what we saw in college. The Thunder went after him because he's the obvious weak spot in the Pistons' defense.

Granted, in help situations and generally in off-ball situations, he was quite good (also consistent with what we saw in college). Sort of like a smaller Kyle Anderson, but the lack of size will make it difficult for the Pistons to use him like Anderson defensively.

[BostonCouchGM]

why did you think he's 6-8 anyway? pretty obvious to anyone that watched closely he wasn't and it was discussed here and he was ranked accordingly

do yall just take listed heights at face value?

You can expect it to be an inch off, but 3? For a non-big? That is crazy

6'5 is Luke Kennards size, 6'8 is Paul George.

You're telling me you wouldn't be shocked if Kuminga was Mulder or Poole's size?

I think we all knew he wasn't his listed height. The consensus being that he was likely 6'7" with shoes on which he's pretty damn close to. There's a reason he shouldn't have been considered a consensus #1. If he was truly 6'8" it'd change things. Green is closer to 6'5" and Mobley 6'10" so it's all relative