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Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft.

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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#601 » by Funcrusher » Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:16 am

Whole Truth wrote:
Funcrusher wrote:BI's not a #1 option. this isnt a Zion vs BI thing, i just dont see it with him at this point. Time per possesion, i get it, but the problem is hes not super effective off-ball and his on-ball ability doesn't compensate for that quite enough. I think its hard to deny at this point, maybe he proves me wrong in the later years of his prime but i dunno


He's struggled to start the yr but he sure looked like one vs the Suns.

Time will tell.

That's fair, but im probably lower on that series than most, just in terms of how impressive it was relative to the level of opposition.

Outside of bridges that Suns team wasn't loaded with lockdown defenders, they were (and still are) largely a defend by commitee unit that largely relied on being fundamentally sound and not making many mistakes. But they're kinda lacking at the point of attack outside of Mikal and as far as their backline Ayton's fairly mobile but still pretty much a drop back big with meh instintcs and motor.

I mean looking back at that dallas series they got absolutely abused by Luka, to a degree that i think is kinda a huge indictment on that team and probably not simply a meltdown thing (as good as Luka is)
gh123 wrote:Zion lucky if he gets 18 ppg on decent efficiency. Midget big man is a no-career in NBA. Chuck being the only wonder. Zion is the next Tractor Trailer at best.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#602 » by Whole Truth » Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:10 am

Funcrusher wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
Funcrusher wrote:BI's not a #1 option. this isnt a Zion vs BI thing, i just dont see it with him at this point. Time per possesion, i get it, but the problem is hes not super effective off-ball and his on-ball ability doesn't compensate for that quite enough. I think its hard to deny at this point, maybe he proves me wrong in the later years of his prime but i dunno


He's struggled to start the yr but he sure looked like one vs the Suns.

Time will tell.

That's fair, but im probably lower on that series than most, just in terms of how impressive it was relative to the level of opposition.

Outside of bridges that Suns team wasn't loaded with lockdown defenders, they were (and still are) largely a defend by commitee unit that largely relied on being fundamentally sound and not making many mistakes. But they're kinda lacking at the point of attack outside of Mikal and as far as their backline Ayton's fairly mobile but still pretty much a drop back big with meh instintcs and motor.

I mean looking back at that dallas series they got absolutely abused by Luka, to a degree that i think is kinda a huge indictment on that team and probably not simply a meltdown thing (as good as Luka is)


Suns go as Paul goes. Luka & Mavs guard play, played Paul off the court. He was in foul trouble for most of their series & fouled out of a game. Some teams just don't matchup well. I mean Dallas had no post presence but without Paul setting the table for Ayton, i t made little difference .. Whereas without checking I'd bet 98% of Aytons production against NO's came from an assisted bucket. They had him in the pocket stretching Jonas away from the rim. with Paul easily getting to his spots.

Suns were cheating off both Herb & Hayes.NO's were effectively playing 3 on 5 for the series. CJ had the rep/gravity to draw Bridges for most of the series but as I've been saying. Gravity is only effective if you don't frorce your shot & CJ shot 30% for the entire series. Part reason Suns left Bridges on him despite BI cooking Crowder & double, tripple teams.

BI effectively put up 27pts on good efficiency with NO's playing short on offense against a then top 3 ranked defense.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#603 » by Duke4life831 » Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:50 am

Funcrusher wrote:BI's not a #1 option. this isnt a Zion vs BI thing, i just dont see it with him at this point. Time per possesion, i get it, but the problem is hes not super effective off-ball and his on-ball ability doesn't compensate for that quite enough. I think its hard to deny at this point, maybe he proves me wrong in the later years of his prime but i dunno


Agreed 100% that he isn’t a #1 option and he doesnt need to be. That’s Zion’s job. BI needs to be a very good #2 option and I think he can easily be that.

Again I’ll use Boston as the example. Tatum is the clear #1 and he is getting 20 shots per game. Brown is the #2 and he’s getting 19.5.

Now if the team doesnt buy BI being capable of being a #2, they should deal him as soon as they can. It would be a waste to keep him around.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#604 » by Duke4life831 » Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:00 am

This team is currently in a very weird spot.

1. It’s looking more and more like CJ is incapable of finding an offensive rhythm without pounding the rock. While it looks like Willie is finally understanding getting Zion the ball more and a lot more in non post up positions.

2. Herb. His shooting has been good awful this year. And it’s really starting to hurt the spacing, especially for the starting lineup.

3. Jonas. I assume he’s going to get traded by the deadline. He’s essentially being used as a part time player at the moment.

Finally. It really does seem like Nance and Jose play better with the starters than Jonas and CJ do. They bring energy and defense, while also being 2 guys that really know how to accept their roles and play off of and around star players.

Just feels like this team is very messy at the moment because it’s becoming clear that the preseason plan isn’t working and a big adjustment needs to take place.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#605 » by Whole Truth » Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:09 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:This team is currently in a very weird spot.

1. It’s looking more and more like CJ is incapable of finding an offensive rhythm without pounding the rock. While it looks like Willie is finally understanding getting Zion the ball more and a lot more in non post up positions.

2. Herb. His shooting has been good awful this year. And it’s really starting to hurt the spacing, especially for the starting lineup.

3. Jonas. I assume he’s going to get traded by the deadline. He’s essentially being used as a part time player at the moment.

Finally. It really does seem like Nance and Jose play better with the starters than Jonas and CJ do. They bring energy and defense, while also being 2 guys that really know how to accept their roles and play off of and around star players.

Just feels like this team is very messy at the moment because it’s becoming clear that the preseason plan isn’t working and a big adjustment needs to take place.


1, 3 & 4 are intertwined. If CJ is giving u nothing offensively, not even hitting his open 3's, he's only a defensive liability reducing the starting units efficiency because of the volume he's playing with, which requires multiple stops to compensate. Something Nance can provide better than Jonas but it's not ideal. CJ is why Jonas has become unplayable. See my Clippers reference from last yr where NO's won 3 blow out wins vs Clips directly because of Jonas with Hart but post trade Jonas was unplayable against them with CJ.

What's irritating me is Jonas is currently providing more value at 15m than CJ but NO's are riding their newly minted 30m max mistake. No matter how poorly CJ plays... Jonas gets the hook because he can't get the necessary stops to cover for CJ's poor volume efficiency & defense. Like I said, I've seen this movie before. They might trade Jonas but the issue will remain. They capped themselves until Daniels can take the reigns from CJ or they decide to make him an expensive 6th man.

I'd like to think they won't scape goat Jonas for CJ but they most likely will to save face on their max extension.

That 3rd Q 30-4 run, 18pt lead flipped to an 8pt deficit, started when they subbed Jonas out for Nance. Not that Nance had a bad game either... Green's early sub of a rotation in sync iced & flpped momentum with a cold Nance. The team panicked & chocked until Alvarado's energy brought some fight back.

2, I'd put money Herbs offensive decline is in line with the fact that he has to bust his ass to cover for the 4 other starters on defense.. fatigue related, maybe a bit of a confidence issue. At one point last night though when he bricked an open 3 after missing a couple shots, like a smart player would do, he put the ball on the floor & got to the rim for a more efficient shot. U say Herb is killing the spacing ... what is CJ's 29% doing ?. Nope, pull Jonas to get stops to cover for poor efficiency.

Early in the game the starters were close to opening an early double digit lead. CJ was getting everyone involved & things were looking good. Jonas got the ball in the post & kicked to an open CJ for 3, no defender withing 10-15' of him & he bricked his shot which led to Houston putting a little run together to close an 8pt deficit instead of NO's stretching the lead if CJ could do what he was brought in to do.. hit an open shot.

Nope, CJ playing like ass on both ends is not the problem, Jonas is. Trade him. Jonas & Nance are a good centre rotation, they will be making a mistake if they do. They aren't going to get Jonas production at 15m in trade.

What they should do, is admitt their mistake & correct it.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#606 » by Whole Truth » Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:54 pm

The 3yrs I was following Memphis. The team & player Ja struggled most with was Philly & Simmons. He was guarded by Simmons & struggled with his & their overall teams length. At that point however they didn't have Bane for better spacing.

NO's have to shadow & pressure Bane, cut him off, especially with Adams on court. Memphs would be playing 3 on 4 if u cut Bane off. I'm hoping Daniels defensive length will get some Burn on Ja, let Herb shut down Morants spacing valve, Bane.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#607 » by Whole Truth » Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:37 pm

Woke up this morining seeing a foum talk about Jonas on/off numbers as though he's the issue. LMAO Claims were made that his fit with Zion is not good, which is possible but no reference was made to CJ's volume inefficiency which is currently worse than Westbrooks.

Jonas is the only starter that doesn't get to play bench minutes, finish games & play with better complimentary piayers/defenders. ON/OFF iis a 5 man unit stat. Put some context to your post/claim.

You cannot reduce Jonas touches & give them to a more inefficient option in CJ currently who leads the team in FGA's, with only one plus defender to compliment the defensive end & expect postitve on/off results out of him where his strength as a player is in playing efficient. Needing stops to compensate poor effiicency is the reason Jonas is subbed but I continue to ask why not sub CJ if your supposedly trying to be fair with all your players ?, I mean CJ as a shooter is currently shooting worse than Westbrook from the field, the 3pt line & FT line but you're subbing Jonas for Nance to compensate his lack of efficiency.

Cj is playing so poorly that excuse was made that he's not well in combination with a finger issue. IMO, That month, 13 game excuse is being used to buy him time to shoot out of a slump which Portland fans claim is typical of him but what that does is put the onus on Jonas for CJ's struggles. How is that fair to Jonas or to Daniels who could earn his minutes, etc... if you're an equal opportunity coach, where minutes are supposedly earned ?.

If CJ didn't lead the starters in FGA's at an inefficient 38 / 28 / 78 shooting... None would be able to point to Jonas on/off numbers because he plays all his minutes with CJ's inefficiency & defense as a non defensive big man. CJ is basically leaving 40 something potential points on average on the table every game while people point to Jonas because that lack of efficiency has a greater need for stops.... Nance.

CJ's inefficiency, is the reason why. the less Jonas plays, NO's are 2-5, regardless of how good Nance was in those losses with the 2nd win coming against a 2-10 last place team after they gave up a 30-4 run subbing out Jonas 3Q for Nance to close. If Jonas on/off numnbers pointed to the issue & not CJ's inefficiency, those losses would be wins & that last placed Houston team win, would not have been a hard fought win.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#608 » by Duke4life831 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:49 pm

Im a fan of the EPM stat and there numbers have finally come out. I tend to like EPM the most because I think out of all of the "catch all" advanced stats, their defensive stat seems to be the one with the least amount of crazy weird standouts. Just a quick rundown on the main guys

Positives:
Ingram: 2.5
Zion: 2.5
Jonas: 0.7

Everyone else were negatives haha. Herb was by far the worst performing starter in this with -1.6 (CJ is -0.7), but Herb being that low isnt too surprising with how bad his shot has been to start the year.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#609 » by Whole Truth » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:48 am

Outside of some **** officiating the team has looked solid to start.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#610 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:03 am

Nice seeing Willie switch up the rotation and get Daniels into the game. Kind of curious that it seems to be at the expense of Jose's minutes and not Graham's. Not sure that makes much sense. But hopefully Daniels can make a splash and earn more minutes.

Edit: Nevermind, just spoke to soon haha.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#611 » by Whole Truth » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:13 am

Duke4life831 wrote:Nice seeing Willie switch up the rotation and get Daniels into the game. Kind of curious that it seems to be at the expense of Jose's minutes and not Graham's. Not sure that makes much sense. But hopefully Daniels can make a splash and earn more minutes.

Edit: Nevermind, just spoke to soon haha.


Jose, CJ, Daniels, Herb, Nance - cooking rn 41 - 37 Pels

CJ surrounded by defenders as the primary option.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#612 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:18 am

Whole Truth wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Nice seeing Willie switch up the rotation and get Daniels into the game. Kind of curious that it seems to be at the expense of Jose's minutes and not Graham's. Not sure that makes much sense. But hopefully Daniels can make a splash and earn more minutes.

Edit: Nevermind, just spoke to soon haha.


Jose, CJ, Daniels, Herb, Nance - cooking rn 41 - 37 Pels

CJ surrounded by defenders as the primary option.


Ive been very critical of Willie this year. But this is one of his smarter rotations to this point of the year. Instead of the idiotic CJ/Graham/Willie and so on. Surround CJ with defenders. This is exactly why I dont want CJ playing heavy minutes with BI and Zion. This is the kind of lineup that can maximize CJ and hide his faults.

Great adjustment by Willie.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#613 » by Whole Truth » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:20 am

Love Jose but you have to put length on JA.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#614 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:42 am

Whole Truth wrote:Love Jose but you have to put length on JA.

Yup. Im as big of a Jose fan as it gets. But Ja just has freakish quickness, he's going to blow by anyone.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#615 » by Whole Truth » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:56 am

Pels getting officiated like someone put big money on the Pels to lose as favorites.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#616 » by Whole Truth » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:58 am

LMAO. Grizz climb Herbs back & he gets called for a foul, lol
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#617 » by Whole Truth » Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:01 am

CJ came to play, great to see.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#618 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:03 am

Great seeing CJ get his shot back. But not going to lie, its still in the back of my mind that I dont doubt CJ being able to get his rhythm being the #2 guy. The issue has been him getting his rhythm as the 3rd guy and he hasnt been able to do that.

But with that said, he has been really good tonight. Hope to see that all defense lineup around him again in the 2nd half (might not happen with Herb's foul trouble).
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#619 » by Whole Truth » Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:10 am

NBA is fake trash.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#620 » by Whole Truth » Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:13 am

Dyson was wide open BI...

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