2025 WNBA Regular Season Discussion Thread

[BlacJacMac]

Phee taking control after an UGLY 3rd quarter.

[BlacJacMac]

Absolutely slammed the door on them in the 4th.

Phee is just incredible.

Napheesa Collier is just the 3rd player in WNBA history with 25+ PTS, 10+ REB, 4+ AST, 4+ STL, and 3+ BLK in a game, joining Candace Parker (2015) and Sylvia Fowles (2021).

28 PTS
10-19 FG (52.6%)
3-6 3P (50.0%)
5-5 FT (100.0%)
10 REB
4 AST
4 STL
3 BLK

[AI_Efficiency]

Haven't watched the Fever-Sky game yet (may not, Sky aren't a lot of fun to watch right now).

But I noticed Sky did not have a single player score 10 points. I'm sure that's happened before, but I can't imagine it's happened too many times.

How long does it take bigs, roughly/on average for things to click?

Basically wondering when/if we’ll start to see Cardoso make a bigger impact. I thought it took longer for guards to adjust to the league if I heard/recall correctly.

There’s always other factors like team fit and build. Like many I’m sure, still questioning the long-term fit with Angel.

I'm not sure. Kiki sure is making it look a lot easier than it should be (though she's a very different type of big than Cardoso). Last year, Brink and Angel transferred immediately, able to just focus on what they do well and not rush developing what they don't. I think that part of Kiki's great start had do with playing along side stretch bigs early in Dolson and Engstler. Then Austin and Edwards as they came back from injury. Kiki's had space to operate at the basket and mid-range, and has never been asked to carry the team. She just happens to be that good, but I think it's been good for her early to be a part of good, veteran versatile group of bigs.

Obviously, the Angel-Cardoso pairing is looking suspect at the moment. I'd be curious to see if any team has ever been able to develop 2 young bigs at the same time that both need to be in the paint.

Seems like it's either you are really good and well-rounded early (who often turn into all-time greats), or you are given a role and time to develop. Outside of Phee, not a lot of all-time great bigs that were drafted in the late-lottery or mid-first round. If you are well rounded and able to carry a team from day one, you are Lauren Jackson, Candace, Nneka, Stewie, or A'ja. No doubters drafted #1.

Cardoso and Angel were drafted at 3 and 7. That usually means you need some development, which they do, but they are being asked to lead a team. And both at the same time.

It's a tough situation for them.

I'd love to see an Arike-Cardoso trade.

I saw a quote from the Pacers GM explaining why they traded Sabonis. They were like, he’s a great player, but it’s hard to build around bigs in modern basketball unless they’re an outlier like Jokic. I’m somewhat down on Reese’s prospects for similar reasons. Doesn’t seem like she could necessarily anchor a defense at center, but doesn’t space the floor either so the fit at forward is questionable. Occasionally hitting a three here and there isn’t causing teams to care about sagging off her and packing the paint. Either way, feel like it’s a tough ask to play two bigs together where neither can space the floor.

[Ice Man]

I saw a quote from the Pacers GM explaining why they traded Sabonis. They were like, he’s a great player, but it’s hard to build around bigs in modern basketball unless they’re an outlier like Jokic. I’m somewhat down on Reese’s prospects for similar reasons..

A team can't build "around" Reese, in the sense that if she's a team's best player that team is in a world of trouble. See Chicago Sky, 2025. But she's a great 3rd piece for a squad that has two bigtime scorers.

As most fans realized at the time, and I think all do now, Reese was never all that last season, despite the massive media attention. People wanted a Clark vs. X rivalry and Reese was X. But that didn't change the fact that Reese is an (ultra-deluxe) role player rather than a true all-around star.

[cupcakesnake]

Have the Aces gone from two-time champs to irrelevant in only 2 seasons?

What's going on with the Aces? I haven't been able to watch any of their games but just checked A'ja's stats and she's 2nd in the league in points, 2nd in rebounds, 11th in assists, 1st in steals and 1st in blocks. I'm assuming it's not to do with her?

EDIT - Just saw that three of their starters are shooting sub-38%. Gray 37.7, Loyd 30.6, Stokes 30.0). Yikes.

It seems like every year, the Aces make a lateral move and also lose some depth. Even in their last championship, they had some roster holes they were surviving. After Candace Parker went down, they were super reliant on Alysha Clark making lineups work. They never really replaced Candace with a high-level rotation piece. Kiah Stokes has always been difficult to play in many situations, and Tiffany Hayes didn't fill the void either. I've always been a bit of a Jewell Lloyd skeptic, so I didn't see adding her while losing Kelsey Plumm as something that would move the needle.

Now they're starking Kiah Stokes but they don't really want to. Chelsea Gray is still very good but past her prime. A'ja is still the goddess of basketball but the team just gets a little more awkward around her each season. It's crazy that a rival like New York just goes out there and grabs players like Natasha Cloud and the Aces haven't made a definite upgrade in 3 years.

[cupcakesnake]

Haven't watched the Fever-Sky game yet (may not, Sky aren't a lot of fun to watch right now).

But I noticed Sky did not have a single player score 10 points. I'm sure that's happened before, but I can't imagine it's happened too many times.

How long does it take bigs, roughly/on average for things to click?

Basically wondering when/if we’ll start to see Cardoso make a bigger impact. I thought it took longer for guards to adjust to the league if I heard/recall correctly.

There’s always other factors like team fit and build. Like many I’m sure, still questioning the long-term fit with Angel.

I think Angel and Cardoso not improving to start the season is an ugly beginning for the Tyler Marsh era. He's been really hyped as a player development coach, and I feel like every WNBA podcast was hyping him and interviewing him in the offseason. There's still time to turn this season around, but you look at the roster around their young stars and it doesn't feel like they're in a position to succeed. Sloot fit, but banking on a 36-year-old to run your whole offense isn't a bullet proof plan.

[cupcakesnake]

Off topic, but the whole WNBA fashion/sex appeal stuff leaves me cold. It's not why I want to watch sports. I have just turned on the French Open's Woman's Final and am being "treated" to Venus Williams & Sarah Jessica Parker sharing their thoughts on fashion design. Sigh.

In case, you haven't noticed, this isn't an anti women's sports rant ... I watch all varieties of women's sports, including high school track videos, for God's sake. This is a "let athletes be athletes" rant.

There's nothing wrong with it though because that isn't for you. Or me for that matter. We aren't the target audience for that stuff.

Fashion is just as much an NBA thing as a WNBA fan. I find it's an entry point for a wide variety of more casual fans. I have lots of friends who aren't into basketball, but send me league fit pics on instagram and that's the way they interact with the league. Then if I can get them to watch a game with me, they care more because they know the characters.

Like DollarBills says, it's not for everyone and doesn't have to be. It's a definite part of expanding the league's appeal in terms of pop culture. The WNBA is great basketball, but it has immense pop culture potential, beyond even that of the NBA because of the players as characters are even more unique. It hits a really strong intersection of sports and culture.

[Green Chile]

Sloot with a torn ACL. Royally sucks for her. At her age, it seems like it could be career ending.

I guess this means HVL is going to have to learn quickly. Could see them signing Aari McDonald (when she's done in Indy) or maybe Deja Kelly.

[MrDollarBills]

Sloot with a torn ACL. Royally sucks for her. At her age, it seems like it could be career ending.

I guess this means HVL is going to have to learn quickly. Could see them signing Aari McDonald (when she's done in Indy) or maybe Deja Kelly.

They need to fire the goddamn coach.

Reese and Cardoso aren't being used right at all to me.

Right now both Dallas and Chicago are an embarrassment and they shouldn't be. Get rid of these dudes.

[MrDollarBills]

Off topic, but the whole WNBA fashion/sex appeal stuff leaves me cold. It's not why I want to watch sports. I have just turned on the French Open's Woman's Final and am being "treated" to Venus Williams & Sarah Jessica Parker sharing their thoughts on fashion design. Sigh.

In case, you haven't noticed, this isn't an anti women's sports rant ... I watch all varieties of women's sports, including high school track videos, for God's sake. This is a "let athletes be athletes" rant.

There's nothing wrong with it though because that isn't for you. Or me for that matter. We aren't the target audience for that stuff.

Fashion is just as much an NBA thing as a WNBA fan. I find it's an entry point for a wide variety of more casual fans. I have lots of friends who aren't into basketball, but send me league fit pics on instagram and that's the way they interact with the league. Then if I can get them to watch a game with me, they care more because they know the characters.

Like DollarBills says, it's not for everyone and doesn't have to be. It's a definite part of expanding the league's appeal in terms of pop culture. The WNBA is great basketball, but it has immense pop culture potential, beyond even that of the NBA because of the players as characters are even more unique. It hits a really strong intersection of sports and culture.

I like the fashion for the ladies a lot better than the guys. That outfit i saw Haliburton wearing the other day was horrific

I also think highlighting the players' fashion is a legit way to market the league, and you know players are probably being approached by designers and fashion brands to wear and advertise their clothing.

Plus, I think by extension the whole "tunnel fit" thing gives us insight into the players' personalities. Like Cam, Dijonai, Angel wear runway model type stuff because that's how they are, but Stewie, Arike, Courtney Williams will wear clothing that even I will stop and go "that's a bad ass outfit".

I think it's fun and if it gets more casuals eyes on these games, good.

Edit: i just remembered, sometimes you can tell what kinda mood A'ja is in by her outfit. If she's in a good mood I've noticed she wears some of that same kinda runway type stuff. If she's pissed off, she comes in a pair of sweats looking like she's about to kick someone's ass. That's really cool to me

[Green Chile]

Sloot with a torn ACL. Royally sucks for her. At her age, it seems like it could be career ending.

I guess this means HVL is going to have to learn quickly. Could see them signing Aari McDonald (when she's done in Indy) or maybe Deja Kelly.

They need to fire the goddamn coach.

Reese and Cardoso aren't being used right at all to me.

Right now both Dallas and Chicago are an embarrassment and they shouldn't be. Get rid of these dudes.

I really don't disagree. Spoon should have never been fired and neither coach seems up for the task.

I will say they both are dealing with some jacked up rosters, so it's hard to grade them just yet.

Dallas was always going to be a mess. I don't think Gregg Popovich could have done anything with this roster. They've had one winning season in Dallas, and Arike has been the team leader for most of that stretch. Starting the year, McCowan and NaLyssa are the presumptive starting bigs, even though we all knew it would be Maddy and Myisha at some point. A mess from day one. You've got maybe the worst frontcourt in league history, and a marriage between Paige and Arike that was never going to go well. Throw in Paige and Ty injuries on top of all that.

Summer Camp Koclanes surely ain't the one, but I don't know what a great coach could do with this mess either. Tanking for Betts was always the best option.

Chicago is a disaster from the top down. But it's still very unclear whether Angel and Cardoso can co-exist in a long-term build. At least not until one of them sees some major offensive development. Which I"m not sure they can do together at the same time.

Marsh ain't maximizing it, but I"m not sure who could. In an ideal world, we don't try point forward Angel in year 2, but he has no choice but to try. Hell, a stretch 4 like Westbeld would be a great option, but he's got to keep developing a pair of back to the basket bigs. He's in a tough spot. If he gives the stretch 4 big minutes, he's going to catch all kinds of hell. You hate him now? Imagine when he benches one of them because he just desperately needs a big that can shoot (something every great basketball mind demands).

Even in this Indy beatdown, they looked solid for a quarter and a half. In that time, they saw one of the best PG's in league history go down with an ACL.

It went poorly after that. To make this impossible scenario work, you've got to have a great, veteran PG. They lost that and things got sideways.

Again, I don't disagree. But both of these coaches are being asked to do something incredibly difficult. Both had smart people telling them not to take these opportunities.

Maybe they should have listened. Poorly run franchises with bad rosters. You take the chance if you can get it, but these are not ideal opportunities.

[cdubbz]

Vanloo gets the start for Zandalasini who went to Eurobasket. I feel Martin, Billings, Amihere, & Leite are the bench mob.

[Green Chile]

Just keeps getting worse for Dallas. Ty Harris to have season ending knee surgery.

[Green Chile]

Vanloo gets the start for Zandalasini who went to Eurobasket. I feel Martin, Billings, Amihere, & Leite are the bench mob.

Vanloo officially announcing that she's going too (I think it was already assumed).
Vanloo was really great last night getting passes to post players and cutters when the team's shots weren't falling.

Losing Vanloo and Zandalasini will hurt, but this team is just so deep. If I'm going to battle, give me Burton, Kayla, Salaun, Temi, and Mo with the rest of the depth and like my chances. Be good to see Leite and Money get some more minutes.

Last night was pretty awesome. Road game and the shots weren't falling. Gave up the lead, and still dug down to get it to OT and pull it out.

This team is so fun. They are shooting like crap so far. But they play hard on defense and move the ball well. They don't have great shooters, but they have a plan offensively.

GIven the team's overall size, the rebounding is really impressive. Last night, they pulled down 17 offensive rebounds. Over the season, they are out-rebounding every team except the Dream. Also, 3rd in steals.

Even when the shots aren't falling, they are just going to get more possessions than the opponent.

This team is so fun. The top teams are a lot of fun, but for me, I get most excited to see a Valkyries or Mystics game on the schedule.

[Green Chile]

Oh, I'm sorry. I mispronounced her name.

It's Kayla MFing Thornton!

[Green Chile]

Who knows where Atlanta goes, but Smesko is the right call for sure.

[MrDollarBills]

Chicago is a disaster. I hate this.

[MrDollarBills]

Stew

Stew

Stew

[Wingy]

Way too many Sky games on national tv cause of Angel’s fame.

They’re clearly awful. It’s not good for the league.

Flex them out!

[MrDollarBills]