Collin Murray-Boyles Thread

[niQ]

Where do you all see CMB playing long term?

He isn't a guard, he's not a center and we already have Barnes/Ingram eating the minutes a SF/PF. He also can't play with Barnes.

Any thoughts?

Ideally, CMB is a 4.

[Clay Davis]

The rizz movement. The rizz movement. All about the rizz, baby, all about the rizz. The rizz movement. The rizz movement.

[manjusaka]

Where do you all see CMB playing long term?

He isn't a guard, he's not a center and we already have Barnes/Ingram eating the minutes a SF/PF. He also can't play with Barnes.

Any thoughts?

Ideally, CMB is a 4.

In terms of playing style, CMB is a 4, I agree.
Furthermore, SB, BI and RJB are 2/3. IQ is 2/1, He is playing more like a 1 lately.

[tsherkin]

Furthermore, SB, BI and RJB are 2/3. IQ is 2/1, He is playing more like a 1 lately.

Barnes is more of a 4/3, to be honest. He isn't useful enough above the break to be considered a 2/3 at all.

[YogurtProducer]

Furthermore, SB, BI and RJB are 2/3. IQ is 2/1, He is playing more like a 1 lately.

Barnes is more of a 4/3, to be honest. He isn't useful enough above the break to be considered a 2/3 at all.

Barnes is more of a 4/5 IMO. Simply can't play the 1/2/3 with his shooting woes. CMB is probably the same type of guy.

No reason why IMO that we cant go Barnes/CMB at the 4/5.If Poeltl is out tonight I hope that we see a lot of Barnes/CMB.

[PushDaRock]

Furthermore, SB, BI and RJB are 2/3. IQ is 2/1, He is playing more like a 1 lately.

Barnes is more of a 4/3, to be honest. He isn't useful enough above the break to be considered a 2/3 at all.

If you're optimizing Barnes as a scorer, he's more of a 3 because he is so dependent on size mismatches in order to score. That only really works if your 4 and 5 can shoot the ball really well though. We don't have that luxury on this team, so he's basically a 4 and maybe some 5 too in small ball lineups.

[tsherkin]

Barnes is more of a 4/5 IMO.

I thought about it, but he isn't a particularly great choice as a 5. Not a really awesome PnR partner, not good enough a rebounder to really sell it (though he's pretty decent for a 4 and very good for a 3). You know?

If you're optimizing Barnes as a scorer, he's more of a 3 because he is so dependent on size mismatches in order to score.

This mostly just means that he's undersized. He's not really a particularly impressive slasher/ball-handler, he isn't a good shooter and his post game is okay, but nothing to write home about. But yes, utilizing mismatches is about the only thing he's got to lean on.

He's had a rough game and all that so far, but I haven't been unhappy with how we're using him so far. Not yet, anyway xD

Positional labels are a little tricky, and more than a little archaic, though. He's a tweener, regardless.

[LoveMyRaps]

CMB should start today with Poeltl out.

[manjusaka]

Furthermore, SB, BI and RJB are 2/3. IQ is 2/1, He is playing more like a 1 lately.

Barnes is more of a 4/3, to be honest. He isn't useful enough above the break to be considered a 2/3 at all.

I know especially with his shooting and the ability to break down the defensive with dribble.

He has the size and athleticism of a 4, but his mindset and his positioning on the court is not a 4. At least not a traditional 4 like Karl Malone or Charles Barkley, but Antoine Walker.

[manjusaka]

Barnes is more of a 4/5 IMO.

I thought about it, but he isn't a particularly great choice as a 5. Not a really awesome PnR partner, not good enough a rebounder to really sell it (though he's pretty decent for a 4 and very good for a 3). You know?

If you're optimizing Barnes as a scorer, he's more of a 3 because he is so dependent on size mismatches in order to score.

This mostly just means that he's undersized. He's not really a particularly impressive slasher/ball-handler, he isn't a good shooter and his post game is okay, but nothing to write home about. But yes, utilizing mismatches is about the only thing he's got to lean on.

He's had a rough game and all that so far, but I haven't been unhappy with how we're using him so far. Not yet, anyway xD

Positional labels are a little tricky, and more than a little archaic, though. He's a tweener, regardless.

I would have to agree he is a tweener in today’s basketball, 3 is probably the best position for him so far.

CMB is a 4, they don’t overlap.

[tsherkin]

I know especially with his shooting and the ability to break down the defensive with dribble.

He has the size and athleticism of a 4, but his mindset and his positioning on the court is not a 4. At least not a traditional 4 like Karl Malone or Charles Barkley, but Antoine Walker.

He's got good size for the 4, certainly. The athleticism... there are some remarkable athletes at the 4, especially with the way the league is playing a lot more conventional 3s at the 4 slot this past decade. They're often a little older when it happens, but it does help them preserve a speed advantage in many cases. Barnes certainly looks nothing like Malone or Barkley, but that has to do with his absence of elite physical traits (Barkely), conventional size/power (Malone) or really strong scoring tools. Walker... sucked. He's actually probably the best of those three as a comparison, because he wasn't an elite athlete and was misused as a volume scorer who shot too many 3s for his skill level. But Scottie is so much better on D that it's hard to entertain that comparison too seriously, you know?

I would have to agree he is a tweener in today’s basketball, 3 is probably the best position for him so far.

CMB is a 4, they don’t overlap.

He is a tweener in any era. It's just what specific label you want to use for Scottie at some point, and that's... only so important. I'm not going to die on a hill trying to call him a 3 versus a 4 or whatever. He's a middle-sized forward who lacks the tools to stand out at either position. So he sits in that Corliss Williamson / Kenny Thomas kind of zone to some extent. Obviously not exactly, as he's at least a little more dynamic with his ball-handler and passing and less skilled with his back to the basket, but size-wise and in terms of speed. Some days and in some matchups, he looks quite a bit more capable. Other days, he looks right there with those guys.

[YogurtProducer]

Barnes is more of a 4/5 IMO.

I thought about it, but he isn't a particularly great choice as a 5. Not a really awesome PnR partner, not good enough a rebounder to really sell it (though he's pretty decent for a 4 and very good for a 3). You know?

Unfortunately, has just as many issues at the 3. Not a really awesome PnR partner on that side either, not a good shooter, not as good defensively on the perimeter as he is closer to the basket.

Barnes at the 5 also has some plus's. He is faster than most C's. His weaker handle is harder to exploit. And the big one - you cant attack switches as hard if he is the 5-man. I don't want him doing it 100% of the time (you still need a C just to eat minutes)

I actually think Barnes/CMB as a 4/5 combo might work, as long as you still have the Poeltl's of the world to play when you end up against a Jokic/Embiid kind of player. I don't think there are a ton of bigs in the league you don't want those guys going up against, however

[YogurtProducer]

Barnes is more of a 4/5 IMO.

I thought about it, but he isn't a particularly great choice as a 5. Not a really awesome PnR partner, not good enough a rebounder to really sell it (though he's pretty decent for a 4 and very good for a 3). You know?

If you're optimizing Barnes as a scorer, he's more of a 3 because he is so dependent on size mismatches in order to score.

This mostly just means that he's undersized. He's not really a particularly impressive slasher/ball-handler, he isn't a good shooter and his post game is okay, but nothing to write home about. But yes, utilizing mismatches is about the only thing he's got to lean on.

He's had a rough game and all that so far, but I haven't been unhappy with how we're using him so far. Not yet, anyway xD

Positional labels are a little tricky, and more than a little archaic, though. He's a tweener, regardless.

I would have to agree he is a tweener in today’s basketball, 3 is probably the best position for him so far.

CMB is a 4, they don’t overlap.

3 is only the best position for Barnes if you got a plus shooter at the 4 and 5 IMO. If Barnes/CMB share the floor, you got to have a good shooting 5 for sure (maybe a Barnes/CMB/Mamu lineup?). Barnes/CMB/Poeltl is simply out of the question.

[tsherkin]

Unfortunately, has just as many issues at the 3. Not a really awesome PnR partner on that side either, not a good shooter, not as good defensively on the perimeter as he is closer to the basket.

All quite true.

Barnes at the 5 also has some plus's. He is faster than most C's. His weaker handle is harder to exploit. And the big one - you cant attack switches as hard if he is the 5-man. I don't want him doing it 100% of the time (you still need a C just to eat minutes)

Yeah, I mean, it's less unpalatable, for sure. He's just a guy without a real positional archetype. He's in between a lot of different places, with some traits which are theoretically advantageous... but lacking a lot of the complementary pieces which would really sell it at the level we're missing.

[quote
I actually think Barnes/CMB as a 4/5 combo might work, as long as you still have the Poeltl's of the world to play when you end up against a Jokic/Embiid kind of player. I don't think there are a ton of bigs in the league you don't want those guys going up against, however[/quote]

That depends rather heavily on what our team offense looks like. I continue to hold reservations about our upper bound with our present cast. And I don't mean that in terms of championship aspirations, but more so "can we win 50 games?"

But, as this is a CMB thread, let's circle back and make it about him again. His upper bound, what he realizes of his potential, is of course a big element of this whole discussion. He's got enough footspeed to be a 3, enough power to play spot minutes at the 5 and he's clearly got the game and reach to be a 4. He won't keep shooting 50% from 3 on the season, but if he and Mamu can both shoot like 36%, that really does change our offensive dynamic. And it also changes how we are able to use Scottie. If CMB can be that spot-up guy, and can take advantage when left open, it starts to warp the floor enough that we can afford to just see what Scottie can do operating below the FT line all night, which is about where he belongs.

[manjusaka]

He's got good size for the 4, certainly. The athleticism... there are some remarkable athletes at the 4, especially with the way the league is playing a lot more conventional 3s at the 4 slot this past decade. They're often a little older when it happens, but it does help them preserve a speed advantage in many cases. Barnes certainly looks nothing like Malone or Barkley, but that has to do with his absence of elite physical traits (Barkely), conventional size/power (Malone) or really strong scoring tools. Walker... sucked. He's actually probably the best of those three as a comparison, because he wasn't an elite athlete and was misused as a volume scorer who shot too many 3s for his skill level. But Scottie is so much better on D that it's hard to entertain that comparison too seriously, you know?

I’ve seen interviews by KG mentioned Barkley was 6-4, but he played big. SB has better size but plays small. Shooting is the trend regardless of positions, Scottie is trying to add shooting too. His offensive style is closer towards Walker. SB is shooting is falling lately, let’s see if he can keep it up, so far it is small sample size. Yes Scottie is much better defensively.


Back to CMB, I think his shooting mechanics is decent enough to be a C&S and spot up shooter down the road. CMB and SB both are still young and quick enough to switch to the perimeter, and they’re undersized as 5. Ideally, it is nice to have a defensive center who can shoot the 3, like Turner, Lopez etc, but they are rare.

[tsherkin]

I’ve seen interviews by KG mentioned Barkley was 6-4, but he played big. SB has better size but plays small. Shooting is the trend regardless of positions, Scottie is trying to add shooting too. His offensive style is closer towards Walker. SB is shooting is falling lately, let’s see if he can keep it up, so far it is small sample size. Yes Scottie is much better defensively.

But Barkley had fairly nuts physical tools and a considerably more skillful game in the post, so there's a fairly large separation in that respect. And of course, in terms of raw aggression, Barkley is up there with anyone. Why dunk with one hand when you can dunk with two, and all that. It's just a yawning chasm between the two as players. Mind that he led the league in FG% for half a decade straight, each year over 61% from the field, right? Dude was a MONSTER inside, even against bigger players. Scottie often struggles when he gets within 8 feet of the rim, even with a size advantage over Chuck.

[quote
Back to CMB, I think his shooting mechanics is decent enough to be a C&S and spot up shooter down the road. CMB and SB both are still young and quick enough to switch to the perimeter, and they’re undersized as 5. Ideally, it is nice to have a defensive center who can shoot the 3, like Turner, Lopez etc, but they are rare.[/quote]

CMB has looked pretty solid on that shot to start. I don't think he's going to be isolation and taking stepbacks or anything, but C+S and punishing defenders for leaving him space? That's looked pretty smooth so far. He's never going to have a hair-trigger on that release with the way he always brings it down to his chest to bring it up through the pocket, but he doesn't need to be Klay to be useful from there, after all.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

Colin Murray Brightspot

[dballislife]

crazy he never really shots 3s in college, and a few months later that stroke is looking solid

[canada_dry]

Looked good today. Shot looks ahead of schedule. An observation though that i commented on the game thread:

Cmb giving up a lot of offensive rebounds is something i noticed in summer league through to preseason.

1 rebound today starting at center and the team got demolished on the glass.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[BBallInSight]

Looked good today. Shot looks ahead of schedule. An observation though that i commented on the game thread:

Cmb giving up a lot of offensive rebounds is something i noticed in summer league through to preseason.

1 rebound today starting at center and the team got demolished on the glass.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

He reminds me of Bargnani, as far as rebounding, unfortunately.