Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity

[League Circles]

And it would be bad analysis since Pippen and Grant were 24 years old and still improving as the 2nd and 3rd best players.

Who do the Bulls have now that are young and improving, outside a role player in Jimmy buckets, who is not close to our 2nd or 3rd best player.

This Bulls team is nothing close to the pre dynasty Bulls in setup or progress, we are going the opposite way with Boozer and Hamilton severely declining at 2 of the starting positions, and little recourse to solve our 2nd option needs.

Fortunately, while Rose is no MJ, both Deng and Noah are better than Grant was IMO. Taj, Boozer, and maybe even RIP and Butler are also better than the other players on that team. The Bulls dynasty rosters are the most overrated rosters in the history of sports. The first dynasty team had 3 good players. Not three stars, but three total good players, with maybe BJ armstrong being on the verge of being another. The second dynasty had just 4 total good players. We already have 4-6, only one of whom is over 27 in Boozer.

It just sucks that now we really can't talk much about trades until the draft. We can't do one now, and we need to evaluate the team with Rose and in the playoffs to even guess as to what trades we could make.

[The Kane]

Is this what that thread about being in "NBA Hell" meant?

Playoff team. Not good enough for a title. Not bad enough for the lottery. No significant moves can be made to become better? This is exactly what I meant.

[kingkirk]

.. Most posters understand that Rose needs a second option. They also understand that there has been no evidence that there was a deal out there that the Bulls could have made at this point in time. Reggie acts like there was a deal out there, or a number of deals that the Bulls could have pulled off, and chose not to.

it's been pointed out, the frustration's been brewing for a while now, in a meantime Anthony, Harden, Paul, Williams, Howard, Lebron, Bosh have changed teams, Garnet, Pierce, Rondo, Gasol, Randolph have been openly made available in trades, which other all stars am I leaving out? This is just in the past few years

Please don't make me post about how we and the other 28 teams missed out on these guys.

Saying x amount of all stars got traded doesn't mean we could have had them all.

[DuckIII]

Reggie Rose's comments don't matter at all. Rose is locked up and engaged, I don't see this guy poisoning Rose out of wanting to play for Chicago as long as Thibs is coach.

Look at the chronology of how this happened. Anyone who thinks Reggie's comments weren't all part of the plan for team Rose is, understandably as a defense mechanism, refusing to face facts.

This isn't Reggie Rose speaking his mind. Its him stating the position of Team Derrick.

The next step in the plan is to have Derrick reassure everyone and say nice things.

[coldfish]

And it would be bad analysis since Pippen and Grant were 24 years old and still improving as the 2nd and 3rd best players.

Who do the Bulls have now that are young and improving, outside a role player in Jimmy buckets, who is not close to our 2nd or 3rd best player.

This Bulls team is nothing close to the pre dynasty Bulls in setup or progress, we are going the opposite way with Boozer and Hamilton severely declining at 2 of the starting positions, and little recourse to solve our 2nd option needs.

I am reading here the "rules of the league" about how the Bulls are completely screwed because they don't have a second star. In 1990, the "rules of the league" were that you needed a stud big man and that no team lead by a high scoring SG could win. Up until that point, all of the other ones failed. Keeping the Bulls together at that time was, to use your words, "bad analysis."

Everyone here wants the Bulls to be better.
Everyone here recognizes that the weaker of the two sides is the offense.

All of these "posters here want to stay the same" comments are straw man arguments. Outside of a lunatic fringe, no one thinks that the Bulls were going to be title favorites even with a healthy Rose. The question in general is what to do about it. Today, we learned that the Bulls are actually willing to pay the tax and wouldn't do something asinine like trade away first round picks to avoid it. Most fans should be happy.

Specifically with this thread, let's stay on point. Read Reggie's words. He is basically saying its not worth it for Rose to play when he isn't on a title contender and he obviously isn't very confident in Rose's knee OR Rose's ability. Let's be honest, if you add Durant or Lebron to this team, the Bulls are title favorites, second star or not.

[Rerisen]

Bulls FO has never been pushed in this way because we never had a superstar worthy of pushing. The win on mid franchise budget made a lot more sense when your best players were Gordon, Deng and Hinrich. I don't think Hinrich is going to rail against management when we lost to the Pistons or something. And its even easy to see where a decision like not taking Gasol because the team still wouldn't be good enough, could be argued even if one didn't agree with it.

But consider if we had any other superstar as good or better than Rose. Kobe, Wade, LeBron, Durant, if we had any of those guys leading our organization, I think they would be pushing in similar ways for the team to be improved. Not specifically via their brother, but in ways that would eventually become public one way or another after a certain length of time.

All these NBA mega-stars can see clear as day that the new era NBA is about winning with multiple stars. It is what was driving the thought process of guys like Paul, Deron, and Howard. Rose isn't a special snowflake, and he's also not stupid either though, to not see what it now takes.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

OK, let's look at the team that Reggie cited, the Miami Heat. How were they created? Well, they tanked for huge capspace in 2010. Then, their leader spent literally years working over the best players in the game trying to get them to join him. Once convinced, that player took less than a max contract to make sure it all worked.

It helped that their leader was a part of the same draft class & he didn't have to work too hard to convince them. They decided years prior that they were gonna play together regardless. It was only a question of where.

Rose? He sent Lebron a text and left Wade a voicemail.

If everybody in the hood knew that Wade wasn't interested in coming back to Chicago, I'm sure that Rose was aware also. Regarding Lebron, they were not that close & everyone (including this board) knew that Wade & Bosh wanted him to join them wherever they signed.

When the new Rose-rule was put in place, he gladly gobbled up a full max contract putting Chicago into lux tax land creating problems for things like sign and trades.

Are you seriously blaming Rose for signing a max deal?

If Rose and his team aren't happy about looking up at the Miami Heat, they need to look in the mirror.

He had no control over those three players concocting a devious plan years prior to 2010 & he sure as hell should not be blamed for signing his max contract in Chicago.

I don't think I need to pull out my front office bashing credentials. I'll call them out but what Reggie Rose did today was completely and utterly ridiculous. Beyond that, it lacked any amount of nuance or intelligence. If he really wanted to build a winner in Chicago:
- He should have been pushing much harder in 2010, his best chance
- He should have been putting on public pressure this summer or before the trade deadline (you know, when the Bulls could have done something) and done so in a constructive fashion. His quotes sound less intelligent and informed than my 10 year old son.

You're calling Reggie's actions ridiculous, but you (nor I) have any idea what's been going on behind closed doors since D-Rose was drafted by the Bulls.

For those that are bringing up Cleveland . . . think about it. They gave a near max contract to Larry Hughes to get a second creator. They went all in for guys like Jamison to put shooters around Lebron. They got Mo Williams. They catered to every whim of Lebron and Maverick and it didn't work because they were all stupid panic moves made to placate Lebron. You guys wanting to trade the Charlotte pick for the likes of JJ Reddick and his expiring deal are pushing the same things . . . if not worse.

I don't know what's been going on behind closed doors, but another poster hit in on the head earlier in this thread. It's possible that something was on the table, but GarPax wouldn't let go of a particular player.

Man, I can't wait for tonight. This is going to be hot on TNT. Reggie Rose just nuked his brother's image. This is Dwight territory if not worse (Dwight was always PC in public). Rose would have done less damage by raping someone like Kobe did.

CF my brother, I admire you as one of the most intelligent & thoughtful posters on all of these RealGM boards, but this portion of your post is utter BS.

While NBA "experts", NBA players, & fans have been saying that Rose needs a #2......Rose has shut his mouth & followed orders. I have defended the FO like no other on the Bulls board, but shots have been fired from a fed up D-Rose. I guarantee you that the fans of Chicago that have followed the kid since high school & earlier, will not turn against him. They know that he's not an arrogant, partying, drug abusing, 6 baby-mama-having criminal. They know that he simply wants to win. He's Kevin Durant without his very own Westbrook.

If you guys think that it's been hard getting a free agent to sign here in the past, sh*t...just watch what will happen if they don't surround Rose with a true #2 or they make the mistake of running Rose away. He's STILL one of the most humble athletes of our time.

He's shut his mouth & stayed patient for years. Today, that sh*t changed & I love it.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Like I said, it doesn't make a difference if they're All-Stars now or not. Noah is better, but Deng and Noah are still the same Deng and Noah.Them becoming All-Stars doesn't magically make them better. And FYI, Miami is better now than they were then. Boozer is worse. We don't know how D. Rose will be when he comes back. Our odds of winning are significantly worse than they were two years ago. The Big 3 are playing out of their minds. LeBron has finally got it, they have Ray Allen and much better role players than they did. We could very well get swept this year.

Lebron is the only Big 3 that has gotten better. Bosh was in his prime and so was Wade. Both of them have gotten worse, still good, but not as good as they were in 2011. The Role players are still a wash. Miller, Jones and Chalmers were still very good role-players who could hit the open shot, which they did. Joel Anthony and Halsem could actually take care of big man duties, now Miami is one of the smallest teams in the league.

Deng is more or less the same, but Noah is easily better. Much better facilitator, scorer and leader. In 2011, the only thing you would give to Noah was defense and rebounds, now he is actually an established member in our offense.

[The Explorer]

Reggie Rose's comments don't matter at all. Rose is locked up and engaged, I don't see this guy poisoning Rose out of wanting to play for Chicago as long as Thibs is coach.

Look at the chronology of how this happened. Anyone who thinks Reggie's comments weren't all part of the plan for team Rose is, understandably as a defense mechanism, refusing to face facts.

This isn't Reggie Rose speaking his mind. Its him stating the position of Team Derrick.

The next step in the plan is to have Derrick reassure everyone and say nice things.

No one knows that for certain. It could be just an overprotective brother/manager looking out for his younger brother. He made comments last week about Rose needing to slow down more often in games, as if he was looking out for him.

[hammel123]

.. Most posters understand that Rose needs a second option. They also understand that there has been no evidence that there was a deal out there that the Bulls could have made at this point in time. Reggie acts like there was a deal out there, or a number of deals that the Bulls could have pulled off, and chose not to.

it's been pointed out, the frustration's been brewing for a while now, in a meantime Anthony, Harden, Paul, Williams, Howard, Lebron, Bosh have changed teams, Garnet, Pierce, Rondo, Gasol, Randolph have been openly made available in trades, which other all stars am I leaving out? This is just in the past few years

Please don't make me post about how we and the other 28 teams missed out on these guys.

Saying x amount of all stars got traded doesn't mean we could have had them all.

Have them all? You are missing the point. When you get a dozen of chances you'd hope to convert at least one. Otherwise it looks more like willful negligence

[Rerisen]

Dallas did it two years ago. One star, Dirk Nowitski, surrounded by above average role players like Kidd, Chandler, Marion, Terry.

Did you see their paryoll? That's what I call the Florida Marlins model. Spend ginormously to go for it one year, then clean house.

Sure the Bulls could try to win this route, they had the chance but passed. Resigning Asik and keeping Korver, which would have ballooned up our payroll, but that is the type of spending you must do in order to win on depth and multiple role player strength.

[kingkirk]

Do take some heat out of it and have a laugh, this is what i've witnessed so far in broad generalisations.

Which category do you fit in? Im option 1.

1. Will never trade a player due to loyalty and value our guys that are here too much
2. Sees opposing team make trade, questions why we didn't get involved
3. We lose, trade everyone now for Monta Ellis
4. We lose, lets tank
5. Hindsight GM who know everything and can/could predict everything that has happened/will happen
6. Tax! I don't care, not my money brah
7. Yeah, you tell him Reggie, you tell him!
8. Pduh

[DASMACKDOWN]

But why are people so freaking worked up about Reggie Rose?

You guys are making it sound like he owns Derrick or is his mouth piece or something.

This is no different than the media asking Dwight Howard's parents what their son wants to do in the offseason. They give their opinion of what they think should happen and then the media rides all over it like Dwight said it. SMH

Yall need to calm down.

[DuckIII]

The saddest part is, this is a perfect moment for Rose to talk to the media. Clean his name. Separate himself from his brothers comments BUT unfortunately a press conference will not be sponsored by Adidas or pressured from Reggie and thus he won't speak. TNT game vs. Heat - any other superstar would speak. Rose, no.

No, bro. That's exactly what they want. But it won't be a press conference. Derrick deflecting what Reggie said and praising the team and front office, expressing his "trust", is the next step in this thing.

[Tenchi Ryu]

But why are people so freaking worked up about Reggie Rose?

You guys are making it sound like he owns Derrick or is his mouth piece or something.

This is no different than the media asking Dwight Howard's parents what their son wants to do in the offseason. .

Derrick has the reputation of being coddled, or not necessarily making choices on his own. Don't want to get into all that, but its no secret his family is usually HEAVILY involved in his decision making compared to someone like Dwight or even Lebron who will just do whatever the f#$k they want to do.

[kingkirk]

Bulls FO has never been pushed in this way because we never had a superstar worthy of pushing. The win on mid franchise budget made a lot more sense when your best players were Gordon, Deng and Hinrich. I don't think Hinrich is going to rail against management when we lost to the Pistons or something. And its even easy to see where a decision like not taking Gasol because the team still wouldn't be good enough, could be argued even if one didn't agree with it.

But consider if we had any other superstar as good or better than Rose. Kobe, Wade, LeBron, Durant, if we had any of those guys leading our organization, I think they would be pushing in similar ways for the team to be improved. Not specifically via their brother, but in ways that would eventually become public one way or another after a certain length of time.

All these NBA mega-stars can see clear as day that the new era NBA is about winning with multiple stars. It is what was driving the thought process of guys like Paul, Deron, and Howard. Rose isn't a special snowflake, and he's also not stupid either though, to not see what it now takes.

I agree with what you said, but i also believe had we landed Lebron or Bosh in 2010, we're paying the tax, we've got 2 or more superstars and we're winning championships.

We got the raw end of the deal, but so did 28 other teams.

Its easy for superstars to make these demands, but they need to realise the supply side of the argument as well.

[Rerisen]

Specifically with this thread, let's stay on point. Read Reggie's words. He is basically saying its not worth it for Rose to play when he isn't on a title contender and he obviously isn't very confident in Rose's knee OR Rose's ability.

Well he's wrong, Rose should play regardless. But its not a black/white issue at the larger level to me. He has some legitimate gripes, but as I said, its bad timing to say this now. As you have laid out yourself and I think the same, you cannot pay contracts such as Deng and Gibson are getting if you want to try to win on the budget the Bulls seem to have.

Paying the tax this year, barely, is no big breakthrough, we clearly tried to avoid it, and if we could have found any deal that could even be argued in the slightest basketball defensible way, I'm sure we would have taken it.

Heck, this stink from Rose and his camp, and more behind the scenes prior, maybe factored into not doing such a dump.

[League Circles]

Dallas did it two years ago. One star, Dirk Nowitski, surrounded by above average role players like Kidd, Chandler, Marion, Terry.

Did you see their paryoll? That's what I call the Florida Marlins model. Spend ginormously to go for it one year, then clean house.

Sure the Bulls could try to win this route, they had the chance but passed. Resigning Asik and keeping Korver, which would have ballooned up our payroll, but that is the type of spending you must do in order to win on depth and multiple role player strength.

You're right and wrong. The Bulls chance to do the Marlins/Mavs thing is NEXT season, not this.

[imagge]

And it would be bad analysis since Pippen and Grant were 24 years old and still improving as the 2nd and 3rd best players.

Who do the Bulls have now that are young and improving, outside a role player in Jimmy buckets, who is not close to our 2nd or 3rd best player.

This Bulls team is nothing close to the pre dynasty Bulls in setup or progress, we are going the opposite way with Boozer and Hamilton severely declining at 2 of the starting positions, and little recourse to solve our 2nd option needs.

Fortunately, while Rose is no MJ, both Deng and Noah are better than Grant was IMO. Taj, Boozer, and maybe even RIP and Butler are also better than the other players on that team. The Bulls dynasty rosters are the most overrated rosters in the history of sports. The first dynasty team had 3 good players. Not three stars, but three total good players, with maybe BJ armstrong being on the verge of being another. The second dynasty had just 4 total good players. We already have 4-6, only one of whom is over 27 in Boozer.

It just sucks that now we really can't talk much about trades until the draft. We can't do one now, and we need to evaluate the team with Rose and in the playoffs to even guess as to what trades we could make.

You do realize the Bulls had 2 HOF on the first Dynasty team and 3 HOF on the 2nd right. Noah, Deng and Boozer will not be HOF'ers. The first team had 2 shooters who shoot better than anybody we have on the team now in Craig Hodges (38% from 3pt) and John Paxon (43% from 3 pt). Both teams are light years better than this team.

[BullsFTW]

I don't blame Reggie, he's just protecting his brother's interest and health. He could've done everything behind close doors because this may affect the organizations image. I'd like to think the Bulls will go all in for the right superstar. Although Gordon was available, the FO may had been reluctant to acquire him because the health of his knee. This may point out to the Bulls pursuing Love instead.