2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

[HotelVitale]

The Kings have a good record. Dallas has a good record, Memphis has a good record. None of those teams are looking back at the draft and wondering "gee if only we would have made a different pick, maybe our record would be better right now...." You see the point I am trying to make here? The Kings got their guy and are looking to the future]

This has been a bad argument so far--you guys aren't listening to each other at all--but this point's going a little too far. Bagley has been at best a small part of the Kings' success so the team's record is mostly irrelevant. It's like saying the Sixers won the Fultz trade (or are totally happy with it) because their team improved by like 25 wins after he joined them. The team being pretty good this year has zero bearing on how good a pick Bagley was, and we all know that (including you).

Just slow down and make a real argument, Bagley will be on your team a long time and you're going to have to talk and think about his ups and downs and how well he's doing for years. Be real about all of it, better for everyone's sanity.

[MrSparkle]

IMHO Luka would’ve brought the Kings back on a 99-04 trajectory. They would’ve had an elite 1-2-3 on the perimeter.

Bagley has a high ceiling. Not a bad pick at all. Personally I just don’t like the uncertainty. He has a good basketball floor so he won’t bust, but he seems kind of injury prone (always my fear with lanky, very tall and thin, athletic bigs).. and his defense and offensive game need a lot of development.

[IamHim]

The Kings have a good record. Dallas has a good record, Memphis has a good record. None of those teams are looking back at the draft and wondering "gee if only we would have made a different pick, maybe our record would be better right now...." You see the point I am trying to make here? The Kings got their guy and are looking to the future]

This has been a bad argument so far--you guys aren't listening to each other at all--but this point's going a little too far. Bagley hasn't been at best a small part of the Kings' success so the team's record is basically irrelevant. It's like saying the Sixers won the Fultz trade (or are totally happy with it) because their team improved by like 25 wins after he joined them. The team being pretty good this year has zero bearing on how good a pick Bagley was, and we all know that (including you).

Just slow down and make a real argument, Bagley will be on your team a long time and you're going to have to talk and think about his ups and downs and how well he's doing for years. Be real about all of it, better for everyone's sanity.

I wholly disagree with your likening it to Philly. Bagley has shown he can score at a high rate and rebound the ball well. He also can block some shots. I'm not saying Bagley is the main reason the Kings are doing well but he has been a key contributor. If you dont believe that, go ahead and ask any Kings fan.

Fultz didnt contribute to hardly anything for the 6ers up to this point, other than a massive headache and a s-ton of 2nd guessing.

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[BoogieTime]

The Kings have a good record. Dallas has a good record, Memphis has a good record. None of those teams are looking back at the draft and wondering "gee if only we would have made a different pick, maybe our record would be better right now...." You see the point I am trying to make here? The Kings got their guy and are looking to the future]

This has been a bad argument so far--you guys aren't listening to each other at all--but this point's going a little too far. Bagley hasn't been at best a small part of the Kings' success so the team's record is basically irrelevant. It's like saying the Sixers won the Fultz trade (or are totally happy with it) because their team improved by like 25 wins after he joined them. The team being pretty good this year has zero bearing on how good a pick Bagley was, and we all know that (including you).

Just slow down and make a real argument, Bagley will be on your team a long time and you're going to have to talk and think about his ups and downs and how well he's doing for years. Be real about all of it, better for everyone's sanity.

I wholly disagree with your likening it to Philly. Bagley has shown he can score at a high rate and rebound the ball well. He also can block some shots. I'm not saying Bagley is the main reason the Kings are doing well but he has been a key contributor. If you dont believe that, go ahead and ask any Kings fan.

Fultz didnt contribute to hardly anything for the 6ers up to this point, other than a massive headache and a s-ton of 2nd guessing.

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No, he hasn’t been

[BoogieTime]

which draft boards? Atlanta was fully committed to Trae, Memphis to JJJ and Dallas to Luka. Others even don’t matter.

Yes they were fully commited... because Bagley was off the board because they knew the Kings were taking him and he wouldn't fall to them. Derp!

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why then Dallas didn’t offer a trade for Bagley to the Kings? Atlanta needed Pg, because Schroder was gone even before the draft and GM wanted to repeat Warriors story anyway. Only Memphis could have maybe taken Bagley, but it has looked like they were very satisfied with JJJ. Magic had Doncic and then Trae in their list. Bagley could have easily felt to 7-8. Not necessarily of course. But being second in this draft was very good position for getting something extra. Bagley is o.k for sure, but ...

He was a consensus top 3 pick, consensus over JJJ and Young

[Bob8]

Yes they were fully commited... because Bagley was off the board because they knew the Kings were taking him and he wouldn't fall to them. Derp!

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why then Dallas didn’t offer a trade for Bagley to the Kings? Atlanta needed Pg, because Schroder was gone even before the draft and GM wanted to repeat Warriors story anyway. Only Memphis could have maybe taken Bagley, but it has looked like they were very satisfied with JJJ. Magic had Doncic and then Trae in their list. Bagley could have easily felt to 7-8. Not necessarily of course. But being second in this draft was very good position for getting something extra. Bagley is o.k for sure, but ...

He was a consensus top 3 pick, consensus over JJJ and Young

Consesus top 3 means nothing, because Atlanta clearly wanted Trae, who wasn’t even consensus top6. Suns Ayton, Atlanta Trae and Dallas Luka, means that only Memphis could possibly take Bagley, which is not that likely.

[clyde21]

Redo the draft today and I think Sac for sure takes Luka #2 if he's available.

[BoogieTime]

Don’t like Joerger’s comment, as no need to discourage Marvin or pee him off as a FA at some point, but at this point the decision to not take Luka should cost jobs. I think Marvin will be good in his own right, but Luka looks a potential top player

[clyde21]

Don’t like Joerger’s comment, as no need to discourage Marvin or pee him off as a FA at some point, but at this point the decision to not take Luka should cost jobs. I think Marvin will be good in his own right, but Luka looks a potential top player

agreed broheem, saying Sac should've taken Luka isn't a dig against Bagley. Luka looks like a prodigy.

agreed that joerger should've not said that.

[Archx]

Don’t like Joerger’s comment, as no need to discourage Marvin or pee him off as a FA at some point, but at this point the decision to not take Luka should cost jobs. I think Marvin will be good in his own right, but Luka looks a potential top player

Yea true. It's really unfair to talk negative about Bagley since it's a nice fit and he is doing really well. But it's just shows you how high Luka set the bar for this year's rookie class. I think we have to go all the way back to LBJ draft to see how high those rookies set the bar. And the 03' rookie class is one of the best in NBA history.

Fox/Hield/Doncic trio would have a bigger potential in modern NBA, than Peja/Bibby/Webber did back in the days, in my opinion. Kings would have everything. Good D, outside shooting, fast PG with Fox and a point forward with superb vision in Luka, who is also scary good in clutch already. So saying Bagley is a better fit is indeed false. But like i said, that's only because Luka set the bar so high this year.

[kb02]

The recent dialogue is just silly. Especially from outside fans, who are attributing buyers remorse for the Kings. There are none. If you think so, you're not watching the Kings at all. No one in the org or fans of the org are worried about Bags.

Folks thought Fox was a bust last year. 1 full year of development and he's a star.
Bags is producing at an easy double double clip without a right hand or any refinement. His athleticism is through the roof.
All of the draftees are going to be linked forever. Arguing about it now is just stupid.

Watch where Bags is next year. If he is a bust, the Kings need more busts like him.

[Archx]

Watch where Bags is next year. If he is a bust, the Kings need more busts like him.

No one said Bagley is a bust or that he is playing bad, NO ONE. You completely missed the point of recent discussions. But even your own coach would prefer Doncic, i guess he is an outside observer as well.

[HotelVitale]

The Kings have a good record. Dallas has a good record, Memphis has a good record. None of those teams are looking back at the draft and wondering "gee if only we would have made a different pick, maybe our record would be better right now...." You see the point I am trying to make here? The Kings got their guy and are looking to the future]

This has been a bad argument so far--you guys aren't listening to each other at all--but this point's going a little too far. Bagley hasn't been at best a small part of the Kings' success so the team's record is basically irrelevant. It's like saying the Sixers won the Fultz trade (or are totally happy with it) because their team improved by like 25 wins after he joined them. The team being pretty good this year has zero bearing on how good a pick Bagley was, and we all know that (including you). Just slow down and make a real argument, Bagley will be on your team a long time and you're going to have to talk and think about his ups and downs and how well he's doing for years. Be real about all of it, better for everyone's sanity.

I wholly disagree with your likening it to Philly. Bagley has shown he can score at a high rate and rebound the ball well. He also can block some shots. I'm not saying Bagley is the main reason the Kings are doing well but he has been a key contributor. If you dont believe that, go ahead and ask any Kings fan. Fultz didnt contribute to hardly anything for the 6ers up to this point, other than a massive headache and a s-ton of 2nd guessing.

This is a good example of slowing down and listening--I'm obviously not comparing Fultz and Bagley as players or contributors, I'm saying that arguing for a draft pick based on team success during his rook year is a bad and senseless tactic. There are way too many outside factors to make one of these equal the other. In this case, even ignoring Bagley's bad advanced stats (RPM so far ranks him as one of the least positive contributors in the league) and granting that he's had a role in improving the team, there are at least a half dozen much more important reasons for the Kings' success. So the cause and effect doesn't compute.

That's not necessarily a knock on Bagley, either, and it's not criticizing him as a prospect. Few rookies contribute to winning games consistently, and with most you're looking for flashes and things they'll be able to do effectively. (Think of how a guy like Fox wasn't any good last year but you could see where it was going if he worked a few things out.)

[kb02]

Watch where Bags is next year. If he is a bust, the Kings need more busts like him.

No one said Bagley is a bust or that he is playing bad, NO ONE. You completely missed the point of recent discussions. But even your own coach would prefer Doncic, i guess he is an outside observer as well.

I'm not missing the point. You, other fans, and Vlade-hating Kings fans are attributing buyers remorse to the Kings when there is none.

Bags and Luka are both going to be great.

My point of saying that Bags is a bust is to emphasize how ridiculous this argument is.

And for Joeger's recent comment, go watch the video. The print is taken out of context. Silly.

[Riko]

This is a cyclic theme. Imo they feared that doncic wuold delay fox's explosion, they invested heavily in him so...
I don't know... I give the pass to Sac (not totally but 90%), still can't understand what phoenix/atlanta was thinking.

[gh123]

Watch on YouTube

just a casual lebron statline by your 7/11 employee of the year
i liked his aggressiveness in this one, getting to the rim and drawing a lot of fouls

We are gonna get a lot of hate once he starts drawing fouls at the rate of peak Harden next year

[Duke4life831]

Hate to switch off the Luka/Bagley talk, but my man Robert Williams is a straight up animal defensively. Had him in my top 10 in my final big board and my god does that man ooze defensive potential. His athleticism in his frame is ridiculous, then add in his tremendous timing when it comes to blocking shots, this dude has crazy potential as a rim protector. He is also a really good rebounder as well in his limited minutes.

Zero offense either than catching lobs or put backs. But when you are surrounded by Kyrie/Tatum/Hayward you really dont need any offense from the 5. Just need a beast defender that can clean up peoples mistakes and a really good rebounder. He is must watch TV whenever he is on the court because of his defense.

[Archx]

Watch where Bags is next year. If he is a bust, the Kings need more busts like him.

No one said Bagley is a bust or that he is playing bad, NO ONE. You completely missed the point of recent discussions. But even your own coach would prefer Doncic, i guess he is an outside observer as well.

I'm not missing the point. You, other fans, and Vlade-hating Kings fans are attributing buyers remorse to the Kings when there is none.

Bags and Luka are both going to be great.

My point of saying that Bags is a bust is to emphasize how ridiculous this argument is.

And for Joeger's recent comment, go watch the video. The print is taken out of context. Silly.

Dude, from the start i was saying Kings made the right choice by selecting Bagley, what are you talking about? There is a difference by saying "a better fit or a BAD fit". I was just thinking how it would work the other way around. Where was i hating on Vlade? I actually think he assembled a great squad. And again, i NEVER said Bagley is going to be a bust, i have given him a ton of credit all along.
But your own coach said some interesting things before the game that sent people into a frenzy when they saw it.

[Duke4life831]

Is Kings coach trying to get himself fired before the game even starts?

Read on Twitter

I'm sure Bagley loved seeing this.

Joerger did this in Memphis when he pouted over picking Jordan Adams over Rodney Hood. He's a pretty good coach but a clown.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.commercialappeal.com/amp/370101001

Ya I just dont get the end game with stuff like this. Im all for speaking the truth, but damn be aware with what youre saying. Was he right with Hood over Adams? Ya. Does he look right with Doncic over Bagley? Still only 30 games into his career but ya. It especially feels like awkward timing with how well Bagley has been playing this past month. I like Joerger a lot as a coach and I get he and the front office dont get along at all. But man try to hide your disappointment a little when it comes to not selecting Doncic.

[JohnWillow]

Is Kings coach trying to get himself fired before the game even starts?

Read on Twitter

I'm sure Bagley loved seeing this.

I think yall are reading too much with this comment, I think it’s more of a compliment to the Luka and that they have to scheme for him and we will have to play them for years to come.

Like every other coach in the league is complimentary about other teams and players so it's nothing new.