Bruno Caboclo discussion thread

[Homer Jay]

Have to admit, that 3 point shot impresses me. Just needs to get it off quicker. But the form and that high arc show some good fundamentals. I think he'll eventually make an impact in this league, he's so raw now now you have options in how to develop him. If he gets some ball handling skills he could be a SF that can crash the boards and rotate to a number of different defensive spots. If not then add a lot of muscle and make him a stretch PF that can help spread the floor on offense. I wouldn't pigeonhole him yet. Let the next couple of years sort themselves out.

[Brazil88]

Needs to improve his lateral quickness and quickness and speed in general. Looks like he could be a great stretch four but I would love to see him improve in those areas so he can then stick at the three position.

I think he has pretty good quickness overall. In Summer League I saw him move his feet well that allowed him to stay in front of his defender, and although he doesn't have the quickest first step it seems above average from what I've seen. The problem is that he's lacking soooooo much actual basketball experience he doesn't even know how to utilize his own physical gifts properly. In a way he's like Javale McGee who has fantastic physical gifts but doesn't know how to use them because of his own idiocy. With Bruno though it's only because of inexperience, and that's easier to fix than being a moron.

THIS! I don't get this 'he is slow' thing most people on this board is talking about. To me he looked even quicker than in SL. I don't know what you guys are expecting. Dude is 6'9'' with long legs and a unhuman wingspan, he's not going to be as fast as the John Walls, Russell Westbrooks of the league, you're expecting too much.

As Choker said, the thing is this kid lacks actual basketball experience. Right now, he doesn't know how to play the game of basketball. Simple as that. Less than two years ago this guy wasn't even on a professional club here in Brazil, and in the last year and a half, already with the pros, he got horrible coaches, that i guarantee, didn't teach him basic defensive fundamentals or the nuances of the game or anything worth.

Most of his defensive mistakes are not because he is too slow or have poor lateral quickness, it's just that he doesn't know HOW to defend, he doesn't know how to use his physical gifts at all.

The good news is that i've seen this kid improve so much and so fast, that i'm confident that with Toronto coaching staff he will be just fine.

His ballhandling on the other hand is an issue. Besides learning how to play the game and get experience, his ballhandling is the biggest weakness he has. But even if it doesn't improve a lot, i'm ok with him becoming Ariza 2.0.

[gutobr]

Needs to improve his lateral quickness and quickness and speed in general. Looks like he could be a great stretch four but I would love to see him improve in those areas so he can then stick at the three position.

I think he has pretty good quickness overall. In Summer League I saw him move his feet well that allowed him to stay in front of his defender, and although he doesn't have the quickest first step it seems above average from what I've seen. The problem is that he's lacking soooooo much actual basketball experience he doesn't even know how to utilize his own physical gifts properly. In a way he's like Javale McGee who has fantastic physical gifts but doesn't know how to use them because of his own idiocy. With Bruno though it's only because of inexperience, and that's easier to fix than being a moron.

THIS! I don't get this 'he is slow' thing most people on this board is talking about. To me he looked even quicker than in SL. Thats fact, I don't know what you guys are expecting. Dude is 6'9'' with long legs and a unhuman wingspan, he's not going to be as fast as the John Walls, Russell Westbrooks of the league, you're expecting too much.

As Choker said, the thing is this kid lacks actual basketball experience. Right now, he doesn't know how to play the game of basketball. Simple as that. Less than two years ago this guy wasn't even on a professional club here in Brazil, and in the last year and a half, already with the pros, he got horrible coaches, that i guarantee, didn't teach him basic defensive fundamentals or the nuances of the game or anything worth.

Most of his defensive mistakes are not because he is too slow or have poor lateral quickness, it's just that he doesn't know HOW to defend, he doesn't know how to use his physical gifts at all.

The good news is that i've seen this kid improve so much and so fast, that i'm confident that with Toronto coaching staff he will be just fine.

His ballhandling on the other hand is an issue. Besides learning how to play the game and get experience, his ballhandling is the biggest weakness he has. But even if it doesn't improve a lot, i'm ok with him becoming Ariza 2.0.

it is his new physical training starting getting results. Its 1st world quality psyichal training, way better than here in Brazil.

[CoachJReturns]

Issue with summer league is that they aren't all NBA players for sure and if he wants to be great and guard some of the best they general have nasty first steps his length will help but if you're too slow reacting it doesn't matter. I think. He also has a tendency to look lost without the ball not maybe knowing where to be or how to play off of certain guys but that's probably a lack of experience and lack of understanding the system and even then the language. This year really should just show up what he could do in the future ie. flashes of his high ceiling it's the years after that we will need to see the growth and consistency develop and then flourish.

I agree that Summer League doesn't matter much, just saying that he showed flashes of good overall quickness, both lateral and first step.

I didn't get to see much of him in summer league. Just highlights really. Did he actually show much quickness, or whas he simply active? We've had some pretty average defensive players over the years and by simply making an effort, he could appear quick. Would fool me at any rate.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

when I talk quickness, I don't mean his ability to get up and down the floor. I don't even mean his ability to move with the basketball (which by the way does not appear to currently be at an NBA level) I'm referring to quickness in moving his feet when he's playing defence. In his nice block of Caspi, this was on display, as well as poor positioning. He failed to take away the straight line to the hoop by being too much on the top side, and then was slow to react to the drive. Just because he was long enough to recover, which is nice, doesn't mean that particular highlight, didn't highlight some specific areas he needs to work on.

Def Positioning ( i think this is the easiest to fix) the others, def footspead in stance, (perhaps it was just a bad showing, or he was just kinda caught flat footed?) and the other is handling ( he doesn't need to be pg, but he gonna have to improve before he can handle in any kind of traffic. If teams start playing him for the shot, he will have a hard time driving on their closeouts.) mind you close out all you want, likely not blocking it.

That's just impressions after his first pre-season game, and I do think there's a lot of upsides and potential there, but he may be among the least NBA ready, and I don't think he should be considered a sure thing. Until he improves on what he needs to improve on, even the D league would be a challenge. It's almost better to have him work on skills with team trainers. Unless we own the affiliate and can force them to give him minutes no matter what.

[TheDunc]

Needs to improve his lateral quickness and quickness and speed in general. Looks like he could be a great stretch four but I would love to see him improve in those areas so he can then stick at the three position.

I think he has pretty good quickness overall. In Summer League I saw him move his feet well that allowed him to stay in front of his defender, and although he doesn't have the quickest first step it seems above average from what I've seen. The problem is that he's lacking soooooo much actual basketball experience he doesn't even know how to utilize his own physical gifts properly. In a way he's like Javale McGee who has fantastic physical gifts but doesn't know how to use them because of his own idiocy. With Bruno though it's only because of inexperience, and that's easier to fix than being a moron.

THIS! I don't get this 'he is slow' thing most people on this board is talking about. To me he looked even quicker than in SL. I don't know what you guys are expecting. Dude is 6'9'' with long legs and a unhuman wingspan, he's not going to be as fast as the John Walls, Russell Westbrooks of the league, you're expecting too much.

As Choker said, the thing is this kid lacks actual basketball experience. Right now, he doesn't know how to play the game of basketball. Simple as that. Less than two years ago this guy wasn't even on a professional club here in Brazil, and in the last year and a half, already with the pros, he got horrible coaches, that i guarantee, didn't teach him basic defensive fundamentals or the nuances of the game or anything worth.

Most of his defensive mistakes are not because he is too slow or have poor lateral quickness, it's just that he doesn't know HOW to defend, he doesn't know how to use his physical gifts at all.

The good news is that i've seen this kid improve so much and so fast, that i'm confident that with Toronto coaching staff he will be just fine.

His ballhandling on the other hand is an issue. Besides learning how to play the game and get experience, his ballhandling is the biggest weakness he has. But even if it doesn't improve a lot, i'm ok with him becoming Ariza 2.0.

He's definitely not fast or quick but he's far from slow. With some NBA training he'll be fine, do people think Durant is some track star? Bruno covers so much ground with his length that his speed isn't worrying me.

[CoachJReturns]

when I talk quickness, I don't mean his ability to get up and down the floor. I don't even mean his ability to move with the basketball (which by the way does not appear to currently be at an NBA level) I'm referring to quickness in moving his feet when he's playing defence. In his nice block of Caspi, this was on display, as well as poor positioning. He failed to take away the straight line to the hoop by being too much on the top side, and then was slow to react to the drive. Just because he was long enough to recover, which is nice, doesn't mean that particular highlight, didn't highlight some specific areas he needs to work on.

Def Positioning ( i think this is the easiest to fix) the others, def footspead in stance, (perhaps it was just a bad showing, or he was just kinda caught flat footed?) and the other is handling ( he doesn't need to be pg, but he gonna have to improve before he can handle in any kind of traffic. If teams start playing him for the shot, he will have a hard time driving on their closeouts.) mind you close out all you want, likely not blocking it.

That's just impressions after his first pre-season game, and I do think there's a lot of upsides and potential there, but he may be among the least NBA ready, and I don't think he should be considered a sure thing. Until he improves on what he needs to improve on, even the D league would be a challenge. It's almost better to have him work on skills with team trainers. Unless we own the affiliate and can force them to give him minutes no matter what.

I think this is the reason Masai said he will spend most of his time this year with the club and only have stints in the D League. I've read a lot of comments of him looking lost in regards to positioning on offense and defense and these are things which are taught to players starting as early as 9 or 10. I don't know how far behind he is, but obviously his awareness isn't where it should be at this point. He is frar from a sure fire future starter, but I'm confident he'll get there at some point. Easily my favorite Raps prospect of the past decade.

[HangTime]

If the Raptors were to hold him out ALL year, and Ssnd him to the D-Leauge, and call him up just to practice with the team. Would he be considered a Rookie for the first year, and would it count as a year towards his contract?

I know it's not based on injury, but he'd have 0 NBA experience.


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BTW, is Nerlens Noel considered to be in the 2nd year of his contract?

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

If the Raptors were to hold him out ALL year, and Ssnd him to the D-Leauge, and call him up just to practice with the team. Would he be considered a Rookie for the first year, and would it count as a year towards his contract?

I know it's not based on injury, but he'd have 0 NBA experience.


---

BTW, is Nerlens Noel considered to be in the 2nd year of his contract?

If he got paid last year, then yeah.

If you're paying them, the years gonna count. If you're not paying them, and they aren't playing in Europe, then I think you have to release them. Unless the player doesn't come to the NBA at all, even to practise, the year's gonna count.

[Prestige]

I'm slightly concerned about his quickness/overall athleticism, but as others have pointed out it could be due to the fact that he's not pushing himself hard enough because of his overwhelming length. Its pretty clear to me that for most of his life he's gotten by on his height/length, and because of that bad defensive principles have been engrained into him. And if he's had terrible coaching on top of that, well, nobody really knows what he's capable of.

It will be up to the training staff to mold his body, but it seems like their solution to every player is to bulk him up.

[nahom1319]

If the Raptors were to hold him out ALL year, and Ssnd him to the D-Leauge, and call him up just to practice with the team. Would he be considered a Rookie for the first year, and would it count as a year towards his contract?

I know it's not based on injury, but he'd have 0 NBA experience.


---

BTW, is Nerlens Noel considered to be in the 2nd year of his contract?

I believe if he hasn't played a game his first year then he is still considered a rookie.

[OvertimeNO]

I'm not as concerned about his quickness (or perceived lack thereof) overall, because modern NBA defences don't really need you to keep up with players one-on-one - you just need to be able to get to the right spots quick enough. And that's dependent as much, if not more, on anticipation and experience than on athleticism. With his length, he could be a great asset in the right defensive systems, and so what if he can't cover John Wall.

[Harold_and_Kumar]

It's pretty difficult to assess his lateral quickness based upon the short time we've seen him play (and I'm not including his summer league performance because it's too hard to tell because of how informal the play is). With that said, I do see what people are saying when they suggest he has poor lateral quickness.

My thought is that the concern is half positioning, half quickness. He's DEFINITELY going to have to improve his basketball IQ. It's the little things like understanding what shoulder to be on when someone is posting up, how to stay goal-side of a player (which is a soccer reference so he should understand that), how to force people a specific way, amount of spacing to give someone at a specific place on the floor based upon your defense, etc. At times he's running to close out while the offensive player was running to the basket and he seems late to recover. These all contribute to what we see as a lack of lateral quickness.

In saying that, the eye-test suggests he does also need to improve his lateral quickness and endurance of staying in a basketball stance for the time he's on the floor.

[OvertimeNO]

Right, but it's also perfectly possible that Bruno's got average-to-above-average lateral quicks, and just seems slower because he's late/out of place more often than not. We've seen guys (like a certain 7 foot Italian) who are quick and agile for their position on the offensive end, but who look utterly sluggish on defence because they don't know what the hell they're doing.

[Undefeated]

While Bruno doesn't have incredible lateral quickness, from what I've seen of his defense it's mostly being too "jumpy" moving side-to-side and leaping at the ballhandler. Essentially the ballhandler has him on a string dictating how he's moving his feet because he's reacting to their movement rather than anticipating. Anytime a defender starts reacting defensively that's essentially a death sentence that you won't escape lol.

[Sterling_Archer]

I agree that Summer League doesn't matter much, just saying that he showed flashes of good overall quickness, both lateral and first step.[/quote]

Agreed definitely showed flashes especially of a step back three.

[MEDIC]

when I talk quickness, I don't mean his ability to get up and down the floor. I don't even mean his ability to move with the basketball (which by the way does not appear to currently be at an NBA level) I'm referring to quickness in moving his feet when he's playing defence. In his nice block of Caspi, this was on display, as well as poor positioning. He failed to take away the straight line to the hoop by being too much on the top side, and then was slow to react to the drive. Just because he was long enough to recover, which is nice, doesn't mean that particular highlight, didn't highlight some specific areas he needs to work on.

Def Positioning ( i think this is the easiest to fix) the others, def footspead in stance, (perhaps it was just a bad showing, or he was just kinda caught flat footed?) and the other is handling ( he doesn't need to be pg, but he gonna have to improve before he can handle in any kind of traffic. If teams start playing him for the shot, he will have a hard time driving on their closeouts.) mind you close out all you want, likely not blocking it.

That's what I saw too. Who knows......maybe he will be "just quick enough" to play SF after mastering proper defensive positioning & learning to play with his feet more. Maybe not......

Like we have been saying, nobody knows how tall or big this kid will be when he is 25 years old. Even just naturally filling out his frame (not even considering weight training), he may become to big/ slow to play the 3 defensively. At that point you move him to the 4 & let him use his quickness to beat PF's. Much like Bosh did.

From what I see so far, Bruno's 3 biggest needs are:

1. Learn English.

2. Basic drills just to learn how to move quickly/ efficiently on the court.

3. Defensive positioning.

Until the gets more proficient at the 3 items above, it will be really hard justify giving him any meaningful minutes on the court.

[MEDIC]

THIS! I don't get this 'he is slow' thing most people on this board is talking about. To me he looked even quicker than in SL. I don't know what you guys are expecting. Dude is 6'9'' with long legs and a unhuman wingspan, he's not going to be as fast as the John Walls, Russell Westbrooks of the league, you're expecting too much.

No. We are concerned about the Wiggins, Durant, LBJ, George, Pierce, Gay, Parsons & Iggy types from blowing by him at will.

His ballhandling on the other hand is an issue. Besides learning how to play the game and get experience, his ballhandling is the biggest weakness he has. But even if it doesn't improve a lot, i'm ok with him becoming Ariza 2.0.

His ball handling skills are the least of my worries.

All he needs to do this season is improve his footwork defensively & add some strength (along with English). We can't really give him floor time until he improves those things.

[pbernardi]

http://o.canada.com/sports/basketball/t ... -few-years

Interesting points:

People were just ignorant about the fact I played for the under 19 team (equivalent of high school in the US) and not as a pro (Senior Team). When I played a few games for the Senior Team, it was a good experience for me, but you got to keep in mind that it was a temporary situation because a starter was recovering from an injury.

You don’t know the Bruno Caboclo who dominated the under 19 league in Brazil, 30+ minutes, 20+ points, 10+ rebounds, 5+ blocked shots per game.

You don’t know the Bruno Caboclo who scored 39 pts, 20 rebounds, 9 blocks in a final game for the Brazilian under 19 Championship game.

You don’t know the Bruno Caboclo that was playing ahead of his time. When I earned a spot in the Senior team (Pro) due to injuries at the starting 3 position, I got some playing time in the big league and kicked butt. I had barely turned 18 at that time.

You don’t know the Bruno Caboclo who contributed to the Senior team that eventually became Champion of the Americas and Co-Champions of the FIBA World Cup.

[Kabookalu]

http://o.canada.com/sports/basketball/toronto-raptors-bruno-caboclo-aims-to-be-one-of-the-best-nba-players-in-a-few-years

Interesting points:

People were just ignorant about the fact I played for the under 19 team (equivalent of high school in the US) and not as a pro (Senior Team). When I played a few games for the Senior Team, it was a good experience for me, but you got to keep in mind that it was a temporary situation because a starter was recovering from an injury.

You don’t know the Bruno Caboclo who dominated the under 19 league in Brazil, 30+ minutes, 20+ points, 10+ rebounds, 5+ blocked shots per game.

You don’t know the Bruno Caboclo who scored 39 pts, 20 rebounds, 9 blocks in a final game for the Brazilian under 19 Championship game.

You don’t know the Bruno Caboclo that was playing ahead of his time. When I earned a spot in the Senior team (Pro) due to injuries at the starting 3 position, I got some playing time in the big league and kicked butt. I had barely turned 18 at that time.

You don’t know the Bruno Caboclo who contributed to the Senior team that eventually became Champion of the Americas and Co-Champions of the FIBA World Cup.

Stuff like this legitimately makes me think that Bruno can become a star. It's a long shot at this point but when a player has his work ethic and self confidence, there's nothing else you want to do but believe in him. Kid is a sponge, give him all the top of the line trainers and assistants and he's going to absorb everything.