Game 61: Phoenix Suns (31-29) @ Miami Heat (25-33)

[Revived]

Dragic is so arrogant, I can't believe he didn't want to stay here and enjoy this amazing play by the Suns! Can you believe the guts in this guy to demand a trade leave such a wonderful team like the Suns?

Thank god he sucked it up for Miami, 21 pts in 14 minutes on great efficiency, HA, our REAL BEST PLAYERS Kieff and Bledsoe can do that with their eyes closed.

Seriously though, Dragic out played our "best players" today in 15 minutes of play. Wonder how Ryan McD feels about making those comments now.

[RunDogGun]

Funny, I didn't see your comment when I was posting. I would also start Bullock some games at the three, if the opposing team has a stud three. Bullock used to guard the best wing in college. If he is to be our 3D guy, then we have nothing to lose by testing that now.

We've lost too many games recently, to stick with Green as the first guard off the bench.

So shake things up a bit. We need to keep fresh legs on the court, and run teams out of the building. Attack the rim over and over. Have at least one guy follow the driver and clean up any misses, or missed shots off fouls not called.

But man, if I was coaching, I would have guys shooting free throws after the game. If anyone walks back in defense, you pull them. I don't care who it is, and you rip them a new one on the sideline.

But first things first, throw as much money as needed at Mike Fratello to be the Del Harris. Hornacek needs vet coaching to help him.

I agree. I want to see more Bullock. Everyone wants more Archie but I want to see if Bullock can be a knock down shooter. Yes, a vet presence on the coaching staff might be a positive thing. Heck, maybe they need a guy who wouldn't back down from anyone and would tell them how crappy they are at rebounding. Rodman? OK, not coaching material but I'd love to see him talk to the twins and stare them down about their rebounding skills and selfish ball.

Mike Fratello is the guy. He has ties to Len through coaching the Ukranian national team, and you could see his passion for coaching in the rookie/sophomore challenge a few years ago. Even though he was the assistant, he was moving players and giving direction.

Our coaching staff needs a shake up, and firing Jeff won't do it, and would be dumb at this point. Coaches don't count against the cap, and Jeff clearly needs a vet coach to lean on. I would send Len to Mike's house, and beg him to take the job.

[JTrain]

This FO is delusional. They thought LeBron or Carmelo would want to play here? What a joke. Not even Amare Stoudemire on his last leg wants to play here. Not even no name players like Dragic and Plumlee want to play here. Not even Spencer Hawes wanted to play here.

[Revived]

I just don't get how Throton plays.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Same way Green still gets playing time.

[JTrain]

The rest of this season should be about seeing what we have in TJ Warren. Is he a potential All-Star or just a potential starter? Knowing that will direct the path we take in FA and the draft.

[letsgosuns]

Well Dragic was going to leave anyway in the offseason. Suns were able to get two draft picks for him instead of losing him for nothing. They were able to get a draft pick for Isaiah Thomas. Time will tell whether it was worth trading for Brandon Knight. But I am not going to base a game where Dragic scores 21 points against the Suns on whether or not the Suns should have kept him. The team also got lit up by Beasley and that other guy Johnson that I had honestly never heard of until tonight. I did not know he was in the NBA. He had the best game of his career.

The problem is that this team has zero veteran leadership and nobody for the players to look up to. All it has is the Morris brothers' thug mentalities or Tucker's angry demeanor. None of those guys are players you should look up to. And Bledsoe hardly ever talks. The team is desperate for a vocal leader that can show the young guys the ropes ala Grant Hill.

[SarcasticSun]

I'm not going to read through this whole thread, but I'm going to assume a lot of you were siding with Dragic and using this game as a justification that our FO messed up. All I know is that paying Dragic 100m/5 years was a first class ticket to mediocrity and we are lucky he demanded a trade otherwise Sarver may have forced us to pay him that. These last two games sucked, but Len and Bledsoe are two pretty solid pieces. Every else is kind of a question mark, but there is a lot of potential. Still in a better spot than we were when the season started.

[JTrain]

2014-15 Suns' Theme Song:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71n3PtdQWF4[/youtube]

[Jdiddy701]

100/5year would have killed us. Again, Suns did great with the situation they had. Gotta look in the long run.

Goran scores 21 pts on us and we lose, all of a sudden Suns made a wrong move by trading him? We would have been f'd with him for years to come.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[bwgood77]

Lost the passion to watch anymore games. This franchise is going in the dumper really fast, the Suns have become a joke, a downfall which has been 5 years in the making. This isn't the same franchise that I became a fan of during the SSOL years. If I could make a metaphor for my relationship with this team, it would be like watching a close friend or family member develop a drug addiction that changes them to the point where you don't even know who they are anymore. I don't recognize this team, they may have the same colors, play in the same arena, have the same logos, but they're not MY Suns. I'm not from Phoenix, and when people ask me what team I root for, it's embarrassing to say the Suns, I usually get a response like "why?" or "that's weird," and understandably so. If the NBA had a caste system the Suns would be grouped with the Denver Nuggets, Milwaukee Bucks, Minnesota Timberwolves and Orlando Magic's of the league.

I don't know how you could destroy the soul of a team so proficiently. The Suns lost their identity, they're not a fun team to root for anymore, and I don't feel like that is going to change unless Sarver sells the team. If you want to see the soul of the team that we all fell in love with during the Nash years, go and watch the Warriors, they've basically stolen the Suns identity, except perfected it, while the Suns seem to be throwing sh*t at the wall and hope it sticks. It seemed we were on the right track after last season, then we fell off the deep end. I think it's pretty clear last season was a fluke, for all involved. Just to highlight some of the mistakes Sarver has made:

- Forced Kerr out
- Didn't re-sign Amar'e
- Traded LB for Turkoglu
- Signed Childress and Warrick
- Hired Lance Blanks
- Hired an agent, Lon Babby to be President of Basketball Operations
- Pathetically strung Nash around for the last of his years
- Drafted Markieff Morris over Kawhi Leonard
- Traded for Marcus Morris
- "Have fun or get a refund night vs the Mavs."
- Made Michael Beasley our FA priority
- Fired Alvin Gentry, left Majerle and Elston Turner in limbo
- Hired Lindsey Hunter
- Traded Gortat for Tyler Ennis
- Refused to trade a 2nd Rounder for Pau Gasol
- Signed Zoran Dragic
- Signed Isaiah Thomas
- Alienated our players (Plumlee requested a trade, Archie said he intends to request a trade if he doesn't get playtime, Dragic requested a trade, IT probably requested a trade)
- Keeping Hornacek as coach despite his plays and rotations
- Having players question the fan support

Looking closer at Dragic's comments makes me understand his point more. I wouldn't want to play for the Suns if I was in the NBA, and I'm a Suns fan. This FO is delusional. They thought LeBron or Carmelo would want to play here? What a joke. Not even Amare Stoudemire on his last leg wants to play here. Not even no name players like Dragic and Plumlee want to play here. Not even Spencer Hawes wanted to play here. How pathetic. Who does want to play here? Bledsoe if we hold him at gunpoint and give him $70m? The Morris twins if we promise to keep them together? Tucker if we overpay him? This is a very unlikable team at the moment. They remind me of the AZ Diamondbacks with their cheapness and poor product.

We were the OKC Thunder of the 2000's, the market wasn't strong, but the product was entertaining so people from all over, including me, bought in. You didn't have to be from Arizona to love the Suns, they had universal appeal. Few teams in the NBA have this appeal, and the Suns are no longer one of them. This team shows no loyalty to its fans, so it shouldn't expect it in return. The passion we have poored into this team hasn't been returned. I thought that trading Dragic and IT and hitting the reset button would go a long way, but its obviously that our problems are much more deeply rooted. /endrant

Not enough fans realize this. There's still people here who are very excited about the direction of the franchise. And sports is a business, as long as fans are happy, don't expect many changes.

I agree with pretty much this entire post (though some of the bullet points I'm unsure about like refusing to trade a 2nd rounder for Pau....but anyway, maybe that is one reason the board is as negative as it is. Because we had SO many bandwagon fans that just signed up during SSOL and were not vested into the team prior to that.

All teams go through their ups and downs.

I don't think Sarver was a great owner to begin with, but I think he has learned from his mistakes for the most part. I think McD is a pretty good talent evaluator but right now I am not sure if he is good at putting the right guys on the floor together. I would say last year he proved it, but I don't think he thought he was putting a team on the floor that was going to be a playoff contender. And then when he decides to make moves to make us a playoff contender, we go in the crapper.

That is why it is tough for me to blame Hornacek. McD was trying to tank last year and Hornacek took that team FAR further than anyone would have ever expected. Then we sign IT, let Frye go, etc, etc....and then it is evident chemistry is WAY off and bball IQ is terrible. Can Hornacek force guys to have a good bball IQ?

I don't know the answers to all of these questions, but I think McD has to take a step back, like Sarver did, and not be so full of himself and realize TEAM is important. He talks about it, but then puts 4 point guards on a team...3 of who think they should be a starting pg in the league. What is Hornacek supposed to do? Especially if he has people telling him he has to play them all.

It's tough to pinpoint what is wrong, but ultimately what may have hurt us most was overachieving as much as we did last year, creating unrealistic expectations......and if McD really didn't want Dragic on the team long term, he should have come to an agreement with Sarver (either he is a long term piece or he isn't) and stick to the decision. For all we know, Sarver told him he wants him to be a long term piece and McD didn't buy in. I know some kind of wanted him gone, and to hand Bledsoe the reigns, because it would make us better, but that obviously hasn't happened.

I have patience, because I am a long time fan, and I know Bledsoe has only started for about a year total, so I won't say he is not the guy by any means, but I think if not everyone is on the same page it is tough. I get the sense Sarver and Hornacek are more on the same page than McD is. I think McD has talent, but Sarver has grown a bit from learning and Hornacek has been involved with the NBA far longer than McD, so I think he needs to listen to Hornacek if he suggests at all what makes a team successful, because he knows.

[bwgood77]

100/5year would have killed us. Again, Suns did great with the situation they had. Gotta look in the long run.

Goran scores 21 pts on us and we lose, all of a sudden Suns made a wrong move by trading him? We would have been f'd with him for years to come.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Well, lets not assume he will automatically get that, but I do agree it was the right move after botching previous moves and creating a terrible roster that had no chemistry, so McD had to try and undo his terrible mistakes from the offseason and not trading IT sooner.

[RunDogGun]

The rest of this season should be about seeing what we have in TJ Warren. Is he a potential All-Star or just a potential starter? Knowing that will direct the path we take in FA and the draft.

I think at this point it will have to be a mix of normal rotational players with Goodwin, TJ, and Bullock. Guys that are on their final deal and are one sided players, need to be the ones losing minutes, except Wright. I think we need to keep Wright after this season.

[bwgood77]

Well Dragic was going to leave anyway in the offseason. Suns were able to get two draft picks for him instead of losing him for nothing. They were able to get a draft pick for Isaiah Thomas. Time will tell whether it was worth trading for Brandon Knight. But I am not going to base a game where Dragic scores 21 points against the Suns on whether or not the Suns should have kept him. The team also got lit up by Beasley and that other guy Johnson that I had honestly never heard of until tonight. I did not know he was in the NBA. He had the best game of his career.

The problem is that this team has zero veteran leadership and nobody for the players to look up to. All it has is the Morris brothers' thug mentalities or Tucker's angry demeanor. None of those guys are players you should look up to. And Bledsoe hardly ever talks. The team is desperate for a vocal leader that can show the young guys the ropes ala Grant Hill.

I keep thinking it would be great for the twins to have that vet leader, and I also thought, Nash, Hill? But would they even respect those guys? I honestly don't know if they would.

[Revived]

I'm gonna laugh my ass off if Dragic ends up getting less than $20M/yr and his haters here all end up with egg on their face

[MrMiyagi]

THE SHIP IS SINKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OH NO!!!!!! TRADING TWO ROTATIONS PLAYERS SHOULD TAKE NO TRANSITIONAL PERIOD AT ALL!!!!!!!!!! WE SHOULD BE IN THE PLAYOFFS OR WE SHOULD BE TANKING!!!!!!!!! WE AREN'T DOING EITHER, WE'RE JUST WINNING OCCASIONALLY AND LOSING OCCASIONALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS TEAM SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE'RE DOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!

No wonder Kieff called out our fans.

[letsgosuns]

Well Dragic was going to leave anyway in the offseason. Suns were able to get two draft picks for him instead of losing him for nothing. They were able to get a draft pick for Isaiah Thomas. Time will tell whether it was worth trading for Brandon Knight. But I am not going to base a game where Dragic scores 21 points against the Suns on whether or not the Suns should have kept him. The team also got lit up by Beasley and that other guy Johnson that I had honestly never heard of until tonight. I did not know he was in the NBA. He had the best game of his career.

The problem is that this team has zero veteran leadership and nobody for the players to look up to. All it has is the Morris brothers' thug mentalities or Tucker's angry demeanor. None of those guys are players you should look up to. And Bledsoe hardly ever talks. The team is desperate for a vocal leader that can show the young guys the ropes ala Grant Hill.

I keep thinking it would be great for the twins to have that vet leader, and I also thought, Nash, Hill? But would they even respect those guys? I honestly don't know if they would.

Idk. Markieff was on the team with Nash and Hill his rookie year and I do not remember hearing anything bad about him back then. I really only remember things started to happen once the Suns acquired his brother and put them together.

[bwgood77]

THE SHIP IS SINKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OH NO!!!!!! TRADING TWO ROTATIONS PLAYERS SHOULD TAKE NO TRANSITIONAL PERIOD AT ALL!!!!!!!!!! WE SHOULD BE IN THE PLAYOFFS OR WE SHOULD BE TANKING!!!!!!!!! WE AREN'T DOING EITHER, WE'RE JUST WINNING OCCASIONALLY AND LOSING OCCASIONALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS TEAM SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE'RE DOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!

No wonder Kieff called out our fans.

What we really need is Mr. Miyagi on the sidelines to teach true focus. If these guys could learn to catch a fly with toothpicks they could be focused and work within a system instead of jacking up shots.

[JTrain]

I really don't know, but I would guess Horny could be a really good coach if he had a group of mature, reasonable, coachable guys like the Warriors or Bucks or something. It seems that we have basically the least compatible group of players for a coach with his personality.

And maybe he played a significant role in who we've drafted, because I feel like we got just the type of quiet, coachable types that Horny loves in Len, Archie, TJ and Ennis. Unfortunately, the group he inherited might sink his ship before he gets a chance for those guys to really become the team.

[Jdiddy701]

I'm gonna laugh my ass off if Dragic ends up getting less than $20M/yr and his haters here all end up with egg on their face

That'll be fine. I'd only be pissed if he gets 12 mil a year or less. Anywhere near 20 mil is plain out DUMB.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Nando88]

I enjoyed the 2012-2013 Suns more than this undisciplined group of players


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums