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The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 - Off the Cliff we go

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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#641 » by TheKingofSting » Sat Apr 7, 2018 10:06 pm

How did we miss this?

About the Charlotte Hornets: Do you see them bringing back head coach Steve Clifford next season? I don’t. Clifford is one of the best coaches that Charlotte, the city not the team, has ever had. And as much as I like and respect Clifford, I don’t think the Hornets will, and I don’t know if they should.

Clifford, 56, is a grinder. There’s nothing flashy about him. When the team made the transition from the Bobcats to the Hornets, and from orange and dark blue to purple and teal, a reporter saw Clifford’s orange tie and asked if he’d have to buy new ones. He tried to suppress a smile.

“You have only one tie, right?” I asked.

He said he had only one.


https://www.google.com/amp/amp.charlotteobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/tom-sorensen-blog/article207215649.html


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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#642 » by Braggins » Sun Apr 8, 2018 12:59 am

Media people cant help but insist Clifford is a great coach even when they are talking about how they think he should be fired...

Ive never understood why there is such a persistent narrative in the media that hes a good coach.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#643 » by yosemiteben » Sun Apr 8, 2018 12:59 am

Sorenson doesn't have any idea though, he's not plugged in.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#644 » by yosemiteben » Sun Apr 8, 2018 12:59 am

Braggins wrote:Ive never understood why there is such a persistent narrative in the media that hes a good coach.

It's not just the media. Players and coaches too.

I'm not saying I'm not ready for a change, but he does have a positive reputation in the league.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#645 » by BeesWax » Sun Apr 8, 2018 3:24 am

Braggins wrote:Media people cant help but insist Clifford is a great coach even when they are talking about how they think he should be fired...

Ive never understood why there is such a persistent narrative in the media that hes a good coach.

He is a nice guy who put in a lot of years to get here. I get liking the guy as a guy but nothing he has ever shown has made him a good head coach. Maybe he is the NBA Norv Turner meaning great coordinator but bad h lead guy.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#646 » by Braggins » Sun Apr 8, 2018 3:43 am

jdm3 wrote:
Braggins wrote:Media people cant help but insist Clifford is a great coach even when they are talking about how they think he should be fired...

Ive never understood why there is such a persistent narrative in the media that hes a good coach.

He is a nice guy who put in a lot of years to get here. I get liking the guy as a guy but nothing he has ever shown has made him a good head coach. Maybe he is the NBA Norv Turner meaning great coordinator but bad h lead guy.

Yeah, I totally see how he would be a fantastic high level assistant, but he really has never shown much as a head coach, or at least not enough to justify his reputation as a head coach.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#647 » by Cheeze » Sun Apr 8, 2018 4:11 am

Winning would make Steve Clifford a great coach. Do that, Steve, and all the griping goes away.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#648 » by HornetJail » Sun Apr 8, 2018 6:46 am

On that note, MCW would've been a star if he shot 55% from the floor
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#649 » by Snidely FC » Mon Apr 9, 2018 7:10 pm

he Hornets this season have appeared to be misguided and particularly deficient on defense. That’s troubling – especially considering Clifford’s reputation as a stout defensive coach and the Hornets’ expensive acquisition of rim protector Dwight Howard. Howard has been durable and has put up big numbers all year. But he seems lost in many high pick-and-roll situations, can’t defend as well against today’s “five-out” NBA offenses and has made absolutely no difference to the Hornets’ win-loss bottom line.

Clifford is very honest. When I asked him about the team's defensive woes in general, he included this sentence in his answer: “Frankly, we do play a number of guys who are just not good defenders.”

As for what else has gone wrong this season, Clifford said: “In essence…. Offensively, we are not far in my opinion from where I hoped we would be. I was expecting top 10 to 12 (in points per possession), and we’re like 13 or 14. … It’s the defense. I thought we could be a dominant defensive team — and we’re not even close. As we sit here today, we’re 16th or 17th on defense. It’s been our worst defensive team.” http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/scott-fowler/article207455094.html

the team gave Cliff the rim protector he clamored for and the defense got worse - another Top 3 reason why Clifford must go
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#650 » by catch20two » Mon Apr 9, 2018 10:27 pm

I been learned to dismiss a lot of what Clifford says as babble about 2 seasons ago.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#651 » by BeesWax » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:01 am

Snidely FC wrote:
he Hornets this season have appeared to be misguided and particularly deficient on defense. That’s troubling – especially considering Clifford’s reputation as a stout defensive coach and the Hornets’ expensive acquisition of rim protector Dwight Howard. Howard has been durable and has put up big numbers all year. But he seems lost in many high pick-and-roll situations, can’t defend as well against today’s “five-out” NBA offenses and has made absolutely no difference to the Hornets’ win-loss bottom line.

Clifford is very honest. When I asked him about the team's defensive woes in general, he included this sentence in his answer: “Frankly, we do play a number of guys who are just not good defenders.”

As for what else has gone wrong this season, Clifford said: “In essence…. Offensively, we are not far in my opinion from where I hoped we would be. I was expecting top 10 to 12 (in points per possession), and we’re like 13 or 14. … It’s the defense. I thought we could be a dominant defensive team — and we’re not even close. As we sit here today, we’re 16th or 17th on defense. It’s been our worst defensive team.” http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/scott-fowler/article207455094.html

the team gave Cliff the rim protector he clamored for and the defense got worse - another Top 3 reason why Clifford must go

This what I have been saying for a couple years now. Everyone likes to blame Cho for the roster composition but it feels so much more like Cliff. Every year he harps on something as the reason we underachieve. It was outside shooting at the 4, Boom we draft Frank, then it was play making in the second unit, Boom we trade for Beli, then it was shot blocking and rim protection, Boom we trade for Howard. This roster was made perfectly in Cliffs image he just doesn't know what he is doing at all.

The Observer even said Cho was allowed to win one this draft and take Monk because Cliff got his way and got Howard. Now which of those looks better right now? This team is messed up because Cliff had Jordans ear and basically got his way on a bunch of bad moves IMO. Now he needs to go like a number of us were saying two years ago when it was obvious he cannot learn from his mistakes.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#652 » by fatlever » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:29 pm

jdm3 wrote:
Snidely FC wrote:
he Hornets this season have appeared to be misguided and particularly deficient on defense. That’s troubling – especially considering Clifford’s reputation as a stout defensive coach and the Hornets’ expensive acquisition of rim protector Dwight Howard. Howard has been durable and has put up big numbers all year. But he seems lost in many high pick-and-roll situations, can’t defend as well against today’s “five-out” NBA offenses and has made absolutely no difference to the Hornets’ win-loss bottom line.

Clifford is very honest. When I asked him about the team's defensive woes in general, he included this sentence in his answer: “Frankly, we do play a number of guys who are just not good defenders.”

As for what else has gone wrong this season, Clifford said: “In essence…. Offensively, we are not far in my opinion from where I hoped we would be. I was expecting top 10 to 12 (in points per possession), and we’re like 13 or 14. … It’s the defense. I thought we could be a dominant defensive team — and we’re not even close. As we sit here today, we’re 16th or 17th on defense. It’s been our worst defensive team.” http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/scott-fowler/article207455094.html

the team gave Cliff the rim protector he clamored for and the defense got worse - another Top 3 reason why Clifford must go

This what I have been saying for a couple years now. Everyone likes to blame Cho for the roster composition but it feels so much more like Cliff. Every year he harps on something as the reason we underachieve. It was outside shooting at the 4, Boom we draft Frank, then it was play making in the second unit, Boom we trade for Beli, then it was shot blocking and rim protection, Boom we trade for Howard. This roster was made perfectly in Cliffs image he just doesn't know what he is doing at all.

The Observer even said Cho was allowed to win one this draft and take Monk because Cliff got his way and got Howard. Now which of those looks better right now? This team is messed up because Cliff had Jordans ear and basically got his way on a bunch of bad moves IMO. Now he needs to go like a number of us were saying two years ago when it was obvious he cannot learn from his mistakes.


Cliff also probably want mitchell, so.... win some, lose some. overall though, cliff has influenced too many bad moves, marco, plumlee, mcw, dwight, biz leaving etc...
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#653 » by BeesWax » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:43 pm

fatlever wrote:
jdm3 wrote:
Snidely FC wrote:the team gave Cliff the rim protector he clamored for and the defense got worse - another Top 3 reason why Clifford must go

This what I have been saying for a couple years now. Everyone likes to blame Cho for the roster composition but it feels so much more like Cliff. Every year he harps on something as the reason we underachieve. It was outside shooting at the 4, Boom we draft Frank, then it was play making in the second unit, Boom we trade for Beli, then it was shot blocking and rim protection, Boom we trade for Howard. This roster was made perfectly in Cliffs image he just doesn't know what he is doing at all.

The Observer even said Cho was allowed to win one this draft and take Monk because Cliff got his way and got Howard. Now which of those looks better right now? This team is messed up because Cliff had Jordans ear and basically got his way on a bunch of bad moves IMO. Now he needs to go like a number of us were saying two years ago when it was obvious he cannot learn from his mistakes.


Cliff also probably want mitchell, so.... win some, lose some. overall though, cliff has influenced too many bad moves, marco, plumlee, mcw, dwight, biz leaving etc...

Wasn't he big on Kennard? I don't know why but I think that was something that came out at some point.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#654 » by TinmanZBoy » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:49 pm

fatlever wrote:
jdm3 wrote:
Snidely FC wrote:the team gave Cliff the rim protector he clamored for and the defense got worse - another Top 3 reason why Clifford must go

This what I have been saying for a couple years now. Everyone likes to blame Cho for the roster composition but it feels so much more like Cliff. Every year he harps on something as the reason we underachieve. It was outside shooting at the 4, Boom we draft Frank, then it was play making in the second unit, Boom we trade for Beli, then it was shot blocking and rim protection, Boom we trade for Howard. This roster was made perfectly in Cliffs image he just doesn't know what he is doing at all.

The Observer even said Cho was allowed to win one this draft and take Monk because Cliff got his way and got Howard. Now which of those looks better right now? This team is messed up because Cliff had Jordans ear and basically got his way on a bunch of bad moves IMO. Now he needs to go like a number of us were saying two years ago when it was obvious he cannot learn from his mistakes.


Cliff also probably want mitchell, so.... win some, lose some. overall though, cliff has influenced too many bad moves, marco, plumlee, mcw, dwight, biz leaving etc...


I seriously do not know what went wrong for Hornets. On paper, the team is very balanced and should be a very good defensive team.... just so many guys under performed...
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#655 » by TinmanZBoy » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:52 pm

I can see Coach Clifford is gone, but he is still a very good knowledgeable coach... I hope he follow the foot step of JVG becomes a commentator... good for his health, for fans too... like to listen to him dissecting the game
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#656 » by LamarMatic7 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:14 pm

This is such a jerk move on my part to focus on this, but I found it.... don't know whether odd or fascinating, but notable that Stephen Silas somehow didn't even crack the honorable mentions. After all, he's usually a guy who's a lock for "future head coach" talks.

https://theundefeated.com/features/the-fizdale-list-10-black-assistant-coaches-who-could-become-nba-head-coaches/
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#657 » by catch20two » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:50 pm

LamarMatic7 wrote:This is such a jerk move on my part to focus on this, but I found it.... don't know whether odd or fascinating, but notable that Stephen Silas somehow didn't even crack the honorable mentions. After all, he's usually a guy who's a lock for "future head coach" talks.

https://theundefeated.com/features/the-fizdale-list-10-black-assistant-coaches-who-could-become-nba-head-coaches/

Some interesting candidates in there (i.e. Ime Udoka, Lloyd Pierce, David Vanterpool).
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#658 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:54 am

Silas was quietly edited out of one online list I saw after his stint taking over for Cliff. He was still in the notable mentions, but no longer one of the top 5.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#659 » by BeesWax » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:55 am

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:Silas was quietly edited out of one online list I saw after his stint taking over for Cliff. He was still in the notable mentions, but no longer one of the top 5.

I hate that for him because I think taking over this broken system for a coach that was coming back hurt his stock. If you are a temp you cannot redesign everything to fix something so screwed up and reflects poorly on you to some extent. I hope he gets a shot to do it his way and proves this is not his fault.
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Re: The Steve Clifford Thread 2.0 

Post#660 » by catch20two » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:00 pm

With Hornacek and Vogel getting fired that might be a good sign that Clifford may be fired.
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