"A Nation Divided, Sports United" ~ The Equality & Other Issues Thread

[claycarver]

I found a stat a few months ago that blew my mind.. if you look at the frequency with which cops are killed in the line of duty, it's actually a safer profession than TRUCKING and FARMING. It's a stressful job, and there is risk involved, but the conversations on this topic make it seem like police are uniquely endangered, that they're all men scared not to come home to their wives and children - and it's true, being an accountant is safer. But being a police officer is a relatively "safe" job, which also suggests something about the violence they encounter at work, that it's more often "resistance" or demonstration than danger.

This sounds almost exactly like the other side. "Unarmed black people are far more likely to be killed by young black men than they are the police." There was a link earlier to the Washington Post reporting that there were 16 killings of unarmed black men by police last year.

What I'm hearing is that there's more FEAR of being killed on both sides than the stats bear out.

It's not just about being killed. It's about harassment of all sorts.

To ignore this is to obfuscate.

I wish there was more clarity on this. I think it would be more honest and less disruptive if the focus was on the harassment and not killings. Many of my friends have been living with fear of cops the last couple years. The harassment sucks, but they didn't become afraid till they were told that cops were killing black people, especially young black men. I have one friend that wouldn't even let his son drive because he was afraid for him.

Maybe playing up "cops killing blacks" was effective in bringing attention to the problem of racism in the police force and that's good. But the lack of clarity over the actual risk of being killed by cops has caused a lot of trauma for families.

[Andrew McCeltic]

This sounds almost exactly like the other side. "Unarmed black people are far more likely to be killed by young black men than they are the police." There was a link earlier to the Washington Post reporting that there were 16 killings of unarmed black men by police last year.

What I'm hearing is that there's more FEAR of being killed on both sides than the stats bear out.

It's not just about being killed. It's about harassment of all sorts.

To ignore this is to obfuscate.

I wish there was more clarity on this. I think it would be more honest and less disruptive if the focus was on the harassment and not killings. Many of my friends have been living with fear of cops the last couple years. The harassment sucks, but they didn't become afraid till they were told that cops were killing black people, especially young black men. I have one friend that wouldn't even let his son drive because he was afraid for him.

Maybe playing up "cops killing blacks" was effective in bringing attention to the problem of racism in the police force and that's good. But the lack of clarity over the actual risk of being killed by cops has caused a lot of trauma for families.

Yeah, it's tricky.. I think hassling black people, which police absolutely do, creates mistrust, may drive impressionable teenagers to think "You think I'm a criminal? Might as well be", increases the quantity of trauma in communities, and increases the odds that black citizens will be paranoid, nervous, etc. in police encounters, which can make them seem guilty or suspicious - it's a vicious cycle.

But you make a good broader point - the major, major issue is that if you're black, you're way more likely to be killed in an interaction with the police, way more likely to be a homicide victim in general, especially depending on age, gender, zip code. It's a problem we need to address if we want to think of ourselves as a decent society.

That said - if you actually look at the odds of being killed by the police if you're a black person, they're way higher than they are for white people, but they're still really really low overall. So everyone involved - citizens serving as police officers and citizens - is probably safe most of the time, can probably navigate situations.

Unfortunately, a panicked cop is more dangerous than a panicked Walter Scott. And I have a disability, which is a big factor in deadly police interactions, too - http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/21/552527929/oklahoma-city-police-fatally-shoot-deaf-man-despite-yells-of-he-cant-hear-you - that one's a sick twist of a story - but I'm not a minority demographic - I'd be willing to admit that I could even "live with" occasional murders by police, because we know cops are human - *if* there were reliable justice when it occurred. But often there aren't even charges, or trials, rarely verdicts - you can shoot a 12 year old black kid in daylight without stopping a second and have a chorus of white Americans roaring to your defense.

[Andrew McCeltic]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451466/police-violence-against-black-men-rare-heres-what-data-actually-say

That article points out the rarity of murders by police in order to minimize away the problem - I'm not bringing it up to do that - but the walkthrough is good about the overall safety in which the majority, even of black people, exist in interacting with the police.

[claycarver]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451466/police-violence-against-black-men-rare-heres-what-data-actually-say

That article points out the rarity of murders by police in order to minimize away the problem - I'm not bringing it up to do that - but the walkthrough is good about the overall safety in which the majority, even of black people, exist in interacting with the police.

I mean...It's the National Review. Their bias is so blatant my eyes glaze over just reading it.

One side wants to make it sound like everything is awesome, the other side wants to create hysteria. And that goes for every issue. Immigration, they flip sides and the right is creating the hysteria. A pox on both your houses.

It's not all bad. Joshua Johnson is doing yeoman's work on 1A when it comes to bringing more light than heat. We need more like that.

[Andrew McCeltic]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451466/police-violence-against-black-men-rare-heres-what-data-actually-say

That article points out the rarity of murders by police in order to minimize away the problem - I'm not bringing it up to do that - but the walkthrough is good about the overall safety in which the majority, even of black people, exist in interacting with the police.

I mean...It's the National Review. Their bias is so blatant my eyes glaze over just reading it.

One side wants to make it sound like everything is awesome, the other side wants to create hysteria. And that goes for every issue. Immigration, they flip sides and the right is creating the hysteria. A pox on both your houses.

It's not all bad. Joshua Johnson is doing yeoman's work on 1A when it comes to bringing more light than heat. We need more like that.

Right, the piece observed that liberals are always pointing out the low odds of dying in a terror attack to argue for less aggressive policy.

I’d be interested in where you think the bias lies in that piece though - stats can be sliced and swapped around, but the data he’s addressing is consistent with what I’ve found elsewhere.

Police violence is, like terrorism, a rare but important issue. Again, not denying discrepancies in how police interact with black citizens - I think it’s a major issue - but it is rare, and that piece is an example of a good, reasonable, restrained take. It looked to me like a solid discussion, even if I disagree with the conclusions, and what I take to be the underlying motive, and what I assume the writer’s politics to be more broadly.

Police brutality is a big deal, but Americans who are black, while they deserve to be upset (& there are other, major discrepancies along with this one contributing to the anger, and validating the broader narrative), also shouldn’t feel like they’re perpetually in life and death danger.

[claycarver]

I’d be interested in where you think the bias lies in that piece though - stats can be sliced and swapped around, but the data he’s addressing is consistent with what I’ve found elsewhere.

Police violence is, like terrorism, a rare but important issue. Again, not denying discrepancies in how police interact with black citizens - I think it’s a major issue - but it is rare, and that piece is an example of a good, reasonable, restrained take. It looked to me like a solid discussion, even if I disagree with the conclusions, and what I take to be the underlying motive, and what I assume the writer’s politics to be more broadly.

Police brutality is a big deal, but Americans who are black, while they deserve to be upset (& there are other, major discrepancies along with this one contributing to the anger, and validating the broader narrative), also shouldn’t feel like they’re perpetually in life and death danger.

I actually agree that the article is helpful and informative, but I think it does a bit of bait and switch. In the third paragraph, he defines the narrative he's addressing this way: "black men are constantly harassed by the police and routinely brutalized with impunity, even when they have done nothing wrong, and there is an epidemic of police shootings of unarmed black men.” So this is the narrative he sets out to counter.

But then he never addresses harassment. The article looks at instances of killings, brutality, or physical harassment. Because he stops where he does, I'm left with the impression that all forms of harassment are a product of media bias. As he moved on from killings to physical brutality, I actually had to focus to remind myself that he never addressed PART of the narrative he set out to address in the first place.

I think it would have been more clear and helpful he had said, "I'm not going to address harassment at all" or something like that. Police brutality is a perfectly legitimate topic to address. But the construction of his argument leads the reader to the conclusion that there isn't a real harassment problem for blacks. This happens a lot on the other side too, obviously. For instance, the reason I expected to see more killings and brutality among blacks isn't necessarily because journalists were lying, but often because of information they intentionally left out.

Still, this article is more informative than the average propaganda piece I read, right and left. So, thanks for posting it.

[robbie84]

As an Australian, it's a fascinating subject.
I'm a conservative voter in Australia and I would generally vote republican if I could (my wife is from New York and we spend a lot of time in the US).
As far as the kneeling thing goes I just don't understand why so many white Americans are up in arms about doing it during the anthem. I understand the pride in the anthem but surely people see this isn't a protest about the flag/anthem etc...it's about people supposedly being branded 'equal' under that flag as Americans- who are supposed to be treated equally are honestly aren't being treated equally.
My wife's family is staunchly republican and most of them are in the 'boycott the NFL!' camp.
There arguments basically revolve around:

1) It's fine to protest, but to kneel during the anthem is the most disrespectful thing you can do and you look like spoiled brats.
2) more black men kill other black men than anyone else, so go back into your communities and do more social work and spread awareness in your communities before disrespecting the flag and anthem that gave you the opportunity to play football for millions of dollars and help your families.

What are people's general arguments against these typical right wing statements/points of view?
My natural instinct is that it's some kind of ingrained racism and the kneeling makes people uncomfortable- they don't even realize they're being racist in a sense.
To me as an outsider it's obvious.
As a black man in the USA you have way less chance of realizing the American dream unless you're an athlete.
How do people not see this in 2017?
Would love some advice or to be pointed in the right direction of news/stats/facts that help spread awareness about inequalities in US society.
I've seen http://inequality.stanford.edu/publications/20-facts-about-us-inequality-everyone-should-know and would love more stuff like this or to learn more solid arguments from actual Americans.

Just baffles me that the great USA that was built on the heels of free speech and spreading awareness about what's supposed to be right- especially the white/centrist/right wing part of the nation just absolutely will not accept/acknowledge the systemic racism in the US without arguing ..'but black people are their own worst enemy' etc..

There was a discussion about this on Celticsblog recently and this was an argument put forth by a well known poster over there (who is openly republican)..

eg:

According to that data, out of all violent crimes in which someone was charged, black Americans were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the country's 75 biggest counties — despite the fact that black Americans made up just 15 percent of the population in those places.

You talk about friends and relatives. Dwayne Wade's cousin got murdered while pushing her baby stroller, but not by a cop. Dion Waiters brother was murdered. Not by a cop. DeAndre Bembry's brother was murdered. Not by a cop. Reggie Bullick's sister was murdered. Not by a cop. Rookie Dorian Finley-Smith's brother was murdered. Not by a cop. Michael Jordan's father was murdered. Not by a cop. Bryce DeJean-Jones died by gunshot. Lorenzo Wright was murdered. Bison Dele was murdered. It's much worse in the NFL, both in terms of victims and perpetrators.

For perspective:

"In recent decades, African-Americans were six times as likely as whites to be homicide victims, according to Justice Department statistics. The carnage is staggering: 2,491 African-Americans were homicide victims in 2013, the most recent year for which FBI statistics are available. An estimated 93 percent of those murders were committed by other African-Americans. The 2013 toll alone is equal to 72 percent of the 3,446 lynchings documented by Tuskegee University researchers between 1882 and 1968. The comparison to nearly a century of deadly racist terror only underscores the alarming scope of the problem."

are there reasons that officers might be more on edge around African American males than the average citizen? Does it make sense to treat the populations that are statistically most lethal in a different way? What's being done about the underlying level of crime, particularly violent crime?

Let's have a real dialogue in this country. Blacks commit the majority of violent crimes, and yet they're not the majority of victims of lethal police action. That doesn't scream racism to me.

Shouldn't the dialogue be aimed at fixing problems? So, how do we reduce the epidemic of violent crime? Is it more police? Education? Investment? More leadership from within targeted communities?

Because that's not the dialogue we're having. There's no doubt that several of the police shootings should have resulted in convictions. But, realistically, we're talking about maybe a couple dozen cases per year, probably less (where the killing was completely unjustified). That number of innocents is murdered in a low-crime month in Chicago alone.

To me those numbers SCREAM at the inequality in the USA. Black communities are 'left to be' in a sense by the rest of the USA.
If you're a black male who's dropped out of high school there is a 35% chance you'll be in prison by the time you're 25 years old.

Isn't that what these guys are kneeling for too?

[CavemanDoctor]

^^ Agreed. It is my firm belief that whether they realize it or not, the majority of people who take issue with the kneeling have some form of latent racism within them. Most would never explicitly claim that, of course, but it is there lurking behind the surface. The reality is, even if it weren't during the anthem, a lot of these people would still be upset with the protests. The implicit message is "a black person can never reasonably protest." i.e. racism.

And those who bring in "black on black" violence are simply trying to conflate the two issues. Black on black violence is another topic altogether with an, at best, very weak and tenuous connection to police brutality. Those seeking to conflate the two -- again whether they realize it or not -- are very likely to have racist biases and are doing so in a "they're animals, look, they kill each other, they're the problem" sort of way.

[Curmudgeon]

As an Australian, it's a fascinating subject.

Perhaps you should look to the history of Australia's treatment of the aborigines and then you might better understand why people are protesting here in the U.S. You might start with the raids carried out by the government in the Northern Territories in 2007 and work backwards from there.

Your genocide was almost as effective as American genocide against Native Americans. Only 3% of Australia's current population is aboriginal, as opposed to 2% Native American here in the U.S.

[Captain_Caveman]

Spoiler:

As an Australian, it's a fascinating subject.
I'm a conservative voter in Australia and I would generally vote republican if I could (my wife is from New York and we spend a lot of time in the US).
As far as the kneeling thing goes I just don't understand why so many white Americans are up in arms about doing it during the anthem. I understand the pride in the anthem but surely people see this isn't a protest about the flag/anthem etc...it's about people supposedly being branded 'equal' under that flag as Americans- who are supposed to be treated equally are honestly aren't being treated equally.
My wife's family is staunchly republican and most of them are in the 'boycott the NFL!' camp.
There arguments basically revolve around:

1) It's fine to protest, but to kneel during the anthem is the most disrespectful thing you can do and you look like spoiled brats.
2) more black men kill other black men than anyone else, so go back into your communities and do more social work and spread awareness in your communities before disrespecting the flag and anthem that gave you the opportunity to play football for millions of dollars and help your families.

What are people's general arguments against these typical right wing statements/points of view?
My natural instinct is that it's some kind of ingrained racism and the kneeling makes people uncomfortable- they don't even realize they're being racist in a sense.
To me as an outsider it's obvious.
As a black man in the USA you have way less chance of realizing the American dream unless you're an athlete.
How do people not see this in 2017?
Would love some advice or to be pointed in the right direction of news/stats/facts that help spread awareness about inequalities in US society.
I've seen http://inequality.stanford.edu/publications/20-facts-about-us-inequality-everyone-should-know and would love more stuff like this or to learn more solid arguments from actual Americans.

Just baffles me that the great USA that was built on the heels of free speech and spreading awareness about what's supposed to be right- especially the white/centrist/right wing part of the nation just absolutely will not accept/acknowledge the systemic racism in the US without arguing ..'but black people are their own worst enemy' etc..

There was a discussion about this on Celticsblog recently and this was an argument put forth by a well known poster over there (who is openly republican)..

eg:

According to that data, out of all violent crimes in which someone was charged, black Americans were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the country's 75 biggest counties — despite the fact that black Americans made up just 15 percent of the population in those places.

You talk about friends and relatives. Dwayne Wade's cousin got murdered while pushing her baby stroller, but not by a cop. Dion Waiters brother was murdered. Not by a cop. DeAndre Bembry's brother was murdered. Not by a cop. Reggie Bullick's sister was murdered. Not by a cop. Rookie Dorian Finley-Smith's brother was murdered. Not by a cop. Michael Jordan's father was murdered. Not by a cop. Bryce DeJean-Jones died by gunshot. Lorenzo Wright was murdered. Bison Dele was murdered. It's much worse in the NFL, both in terms of victims and perpetrators.

For perspective:

"In recent decades, African-Americans were six times as likely as whites to be homicide victims, according to Justice Department statistics. The carnage is staggering: 2,491 African-Americans were homicide victims in 2013, the most recent year for which FBI statistics are available. An estimated 93 percent of those murders were committed by other African-Americans. The 2013 toll alone is equal to 72 percent of the 3,446 lynchings documented by Tuskegee University researchers between 1882 and 1968. The comparison to nearly a century of deadly racist terror only underscores the alarming scope of the problem."

are there reasons that officers might be more on edge around African American males than the average citizen? Does it make sense to treat the populations that are statistically most lethal in a different way? What's being done about the underlying level of crime, particularly violent crime?

Let's have a real dialogue in this country. Blacks commit the majority of violent crimes, and yet they're not the majority of victims of lethal police action. That doesn't scream racism to me.

Shouldn't the dialogue be aimed at fixing problems? So, how do we reduce the epidemic of violent crime? Is it more police? Education? Investment? More leadership from within targeted communities?

Because that's not the dialogue we're having. There's no doubt that several of the police shootings should have resulted in convictions. But, realistically, we're talking about maybe a couple dozen cases per year, probably less (where the killing was completely unjustified). That number of innocents is murdered in a low-crime month in Chicago alone.

To me those numbers SCREAM at the inequality in the USA. Black communities are 'left to be' in a sense by the rest of the USA.
If you're a black male who's dropped out of high school there is a 35% chance you'll be in prison by the time you're 25 years old.

Isn't that what these guys are kneeling for too?

I think you have it right. There is obvious, deep-rooted, systemic, institutionalized racism in how American society functions, and most of those who benefit from it do not want to acknowledge it.

[Curmudgeon]

I think you have it right. There is obvious, deep-rooted, systemic, institutionalized racism in how American society functions, and most of those who benefit from it do not want to acknowledge it.

It's double racism, really. It's not just that people of color are treated badly, it's White privilege, the notion that some people think they deserve better because they're White. I'm sure that protests by affluent Black athletes drive many of them up the wall. It has little to do with when the protests occur, even though they profess that it does.

[Ed Pinkney]

As an Australian, it's a fascinating subject.

Perhaps you should look to the history of Australia's treatment of the aborigines and then you might better understand why people are protesting here in the U.S. You might start with the raids carried out by the government in the Northern Territories in 2007 and work backwards from there.

Your genocide was almost as effective as American genocide against Native Americans. Only 3% of Australia's current population is aboriginal, as opposed to 2% Native American here in the U.S.

Our treatment of Aboriginal people is abhorrent and is possibly the worst ongoing treatment of an indigenous people by a colonising force in recent history. It is truly shameful.

[Curmudgeon]

I would argue that the treatment of Native Americans was worse, at least in scale. Anthropologists estimate that in 1800 there were 200 million Native Americans living in North America. In 1900 there were 20 million. There were killed, infected with smallpox, and starved. There wasn't a single major treaty that wasn't broken by the Whites. We stole their country, plain and simple.

In fact, "civilized" Europeans have an abysmal record when dealing with native peoples. What the Belgians did in the Congo, and the Germans did in Southwest Africa before 1914, was genocide, pure and simple.

The exception is New Zealand. The treaty of Waitangi is to my knowledge the only treaty made between Whites and indigenous people that the Whites didn't completely break, although it has been bent on a number of occasions.

[Ed Pinkney]

The scale does seem different, but pretty much your whole first paragraph applies in Australia too. One difference I guess would be to my knowledge there has never even been any treaties for white Australia to break, we just forcibly stole their country. They didn't even classify them as people initially, the continent was listed as terra nullius (nobody's land) and its indigenous people were considered fauna, not human. There was also forced removal of children into missions and orphanages.

[robbie84]

As an Australian, it's a fascinating subject.

Perhaps you should look to the history of Australia's treatment of the aborigines and then you might better understand why people are protesting here in the U.S. You might start with the raids carried out by the government in the Northern Territories in 2007 and work backwards from there.

Your genocide was almost as effective as American genocide against Native Americans. Only 3% of Australia's current population is aboriginal, as opposed to 2% Native American here in the U.S.

Not sure what point you're trying to make here as your tone comes off as slightly pessimistic (although a lot of your posts are like that as I've read over the years).

Anyway, all of the above are true.
Australia has a horrific history of despicable treatment of Aboriginal Australians and they still suffer greatly. The situation should be compared more to Native Americans, not Black Americans.

So for now, in this topic regarding the anthem, and the treatment of African Americans in American society, I'll stick to the topic at hand.

[Curmudgeon]

The police violence against people of color is just another vestige of White racism. We're on top and you are second class, or worse. It's just a question of the degree of violence and how the Whites assert their superiority.

During reconstruction, the treatment of Blacks in the South wan't much better than the treatment of aborigines. There were many lynchings and other murders. That's one reason why there was a huge migration of Blacks to northern cities like Chicago and Detroit. You might want to read "The Warmth of Other Suns" better to understand the history of Blacks in this country.

Nowadays it's not lynching or bullwhips. It's maintaining order through police power and White economic and political dominance. The political dominance begins with the Republican party, which has used the electoral college system, gerrymandered congressional districts and the courts to maintain White dominance-- not only by incarcerating a disproportionate number of Blacks but also by giving big money donors unfettered power to control politicians when the Supreme Court gutted any spending limitations or disclosure requirements for campaign finance.

And BTW, let me give Australia credit for implementing meaningful gun control legislation after the Port Arthur massacre. We can't even manage that.

[theman]

The police violence against people of color is just another vestige of White racism. We're on top and you are second class, or worse. It's just a question of the degree of violence and how the Whites assert their superiority.

During reconstruction, the treatment of Blacks in the South wan't much better than the treatment of aborigines. There were many lynchings and other murders. That's one reason why there was a huge migration of Blacks to northern cities like Chicago and Detroit. You might want to read "The Warmth of Other Suns" better to understand the history of Blacks in this country.

Nowadays it's not lynching or bullwhips. It's maintaining order through police power and White economic and political dominance. The political dominance begins with the Republican party, which has used the electoral college system, gerrymandered congressional districts and the courts to maintain White dominance-- not only by incarcerating a disproportionate number of Blacks but also by giving big money donors unfettered power to control politicians when the Supreme Court gutted any spending limitations or disclosure requirements for campaign finance.

And BTW, let me give Australia credit for implementing meaningful gun control legislation after the Port Arthur massacre. We can't even manage that.

Which party freed the slaves?

Which party passed the Civil Rights amendment?

Which party used the National Guard to protect African American children attending newly desegregated schools in the South?

Which party gave women the right to vote (a little off topic)?

To which party is disgraced Massachusetts Speaker of the House Thomas Finneran a member? "Finneran faced 16 to 21 months in prison if he was convicted on all counts stemming from criminal charges that he misrepresented his role in the creation of a legislative redistricting map that diluted the clout of minority voters."

Which party had a presidential candidate who referred to Dick Morris as "That Jew bastard"?

It is sad that so many American buy into the lie that Republicans are racist.

[Curmudgeon]

The Republican party of today is completely different from the party of Lincoln and Eisenhower. The South was solidly Democratic when Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson were president. That all changed with Reagan, when the racists went over to the Republicans en masse.

[truth18]

The police violence against people of color is just another vestige of White racism. We're on top and you are second class, or worse. It's just a question of the degree of violence and how the Whites assert their superiority.

During reconstruction, the treatment of Blacks in the South wan't much better than the treatment of aborigines. There were many lynchings and other murders. That's one reason why there was a huge migration of Blacks to northern cities like Chicago and Detroit. You might want to read "The Warmth of Other Suns" better to understand the history of Blacks in this country.

Nowadays it's not lynching or bullwhips. It's maintaining order through police power and White economic and political dominance. The political dominance begins with the Republican party, which has used the electoral college system, gerrymandered congressional districts and the courts to maintain White dominance-- not only by incarcerating a disproportionate number of Blacks but also by giving big money donors unfettered power to control politicians when the Supreme Court gutted any spending limitations or disclosure requirements for campaign finance.

And BTW, let me give Australia credit for implementing meaningful gun control legislation after the Port Arthur massacre. We can't even manage that.

Which party free the slaves?

Lol.

Brother, you need to read up on the basics of American politics and how the parties changed overtime.

Don't take this as an insult (you may not even be American), but you lack some very basic knowledge here that is necessary to even participate in this discussion. Head down to the library or contact a history professor/college educated student among your family and friends and have them explain to you when and why the two parties radically shifted their culture and platforms. I would explain myself, but it's really basic stuff you should learn on your own.

Get informed and come back. It will make this easier to discuss. Cheers.

[theman]

Lol.

Brother, you need to read up on the basics of American politics and how the parties changed overtime.

Don't take this as an insult (you may not even be American), but you lack some very basic knowledge here that is neccesary to even participate in this discussion. Head down to the library or contact a history professor/college educated student among your family and friends and have them explain to you when and why the two parties radically shifted their culture and platforms. I would explain myself, but it's really basic stuff you should learn on your own.

Get informed and come back. It will make this easier to discuss. Cheers.

Okay, which party continues to repress African American so they will continue to do their bidding, ie, keep reelecting them instead of allowing them to pull themselves out of poverty?