Markelle Fultz Discussion III: For Fultz and going forward (see 2017 draft thread for trade discussion)

[BigSleep333]

I think it's funny that people criticize Colangelo more for trading Okafor late than those same people do rip Hinkie for drafting Okafor in the first place and not trading him to Boston in 2015 for the Nets pick.

dude, hinkie knows the draft is a crapshoot and many kids fail. he also drafted MCW, so what? he saw early he wouldnt be a good nba-player so he traded him at his peak.

those rumors about declined trades are all fluff. there is no evidence he declined that offer, so you can believe what you want..

[LongLiveHinkie]

There's no evidence to any reports ever lol. Unless we have a hidden camera in the GM offices. Zach Lowe reporting it is good enough for me.

But anything to defend Sam Hinkie the god. When he does something bad it either was just a rumor no truth to it, but when Colangelo does something bad SOUND THE ALARMS!

[BigSleep333]

There's no evidence to any reports ever lol. Unless we have a hidden camera in the GM offices. Zach Lowe reporting it is good enough for me.

But anything to defend Sam Hinkie the god. When he does something bad it either was just a rumor no truth to it, but when Colangelo does something bad SOUND THE ALARMS!

im not calling you the forbidden adjective, but i just wrote in the post above, that he made a mistake in drafting mcw and jah.

[LloydFree]

I was never a Hinkie worshipper. I agreed with his plan and liked most of his trades. I thought he was below average at the draft. A smart GM overall.
I was completely neutral towards Colangelo... until he traded up for Fultz. Once he did that, I have to question his judgement moving forward. It was a dumb and unnecessary move. A reckless waste of resources for a player whose ceiling doesn't merit that kind of risk.

If he is the guy he was in college, I would say his ceiling is pretty damn high. I do agree (I think) with you in the sense that if Fultz never pans out, BC could lose his job over that. That IS/WAS his defining move. I think he will be very good for this team. Once he gets back and is healthy...I sure as hell hope at the very least

No, I don't agree that Colangelo will get fired if Fultz doesn't pan out. You don't fire a guy for one bad move. You get fired for not overseeing a successful program. As long as Embiid and Simmons are upright, the team will be successful. He'll be fine.

Don't agree about the ceiling. I think he was a good-great college player, who isn't an elite athlete and doesn't have one elite tool. That's just my opinion. I've heard others who have said he has elite level tools. I didn't see that. I saw a good college player.

[Eyeamok]

There's no evidence to any reports ever lol. Unless we have a hidden camera in the GM offices. Zach Lowe reporting it is good enough for me.

But anything to defend Sam Hinkie the god. When he does something bad it either was just a rumor no truth to it, but when Colangelo does something bad SOUND THE ALARMS!

Attendance is up.
The team has been featured on ESPN and in all basketball related circles.
The best players are Embiid and Simmons.
Multiple first round picks and cap space are still at the 76ers disposal.

All of this thanks to SAM. I am going to sound the alarm right now. When is BC going to do something that is going to have a long term positive effect on this team? He signed Covington to a good contract. But since then Covington has been playing less than stellar. JJ Redick is a one year stop gap. He traded away a valuable asset to get Fultz, who is just not (in my opinion) physically able and mentally able to compete right now. Now when this team needs him.

So yes Sam made a lot of mistakes. But it got us from a negative position in terms of assets and players to where we are today. So tell me what is BC's contribution been or going to be? Trading Noel for a fake #1 pick? Or is he just going to continue to ride the coattails of our former GM?

[BullyKing]

I was never a Hinkie worshipper. I agreed with his plan and liked most of his trades. I thought he was below average at the draft. A smart GM overall.
I was completely neutral towards Colangelo... until he traded up for Fultz. Once he did that, I have to question his judgement moving forward. It was a dumb and unnecessary move. A reckless waste of resources for a player whose ceiling doesn't merit that kind of risk.

If he is the guy he was in college, I would say his ceiling is pretty damn high. I do agree (I think) with you in the sense that if Fultz never pans out, BC could lose his job over that. That IS/WAS his defining move. I think he will be very good for this team. Once he gets back and is healthy...I sure as hell hope at the very least

No, I don't agree that Colangelo will get fired if Fultz doesn't pan out. You don't fire a guy for one bad move. You get fired for not overseeing a successful program. As long as Embiid and Simmons are upright, the team will be successful. He'll be fine.

Don't agree about the ceiling. I think he was a good-great college player, who isn't an elite athlete and doesn't have one elite tool. That's just my opinion. I've heard others who have said he has elite level tools. I didn't see that. I saw a good college player.

This isn't really Fultz related but your post made me think about what an acceptable use of the No. 1 overall pick is. In other words, what is the level of player where people think, "yeah, not a generational talent but a decent return for the first pick." CJ McCollum? Bradley Beal? Better? Worse?

Of course, that is a different question whether it is worth it to trade up for a CJ or Beal but just made me wonder. You could look at something like average career WS for a No. 1 pick but that seems too context specific and subject to the extremes (LeBron on one end, the Anthony Bennett's on the other).

[LongLiveHinkie]

There's no evidence to any reports ever lol. Unless we have a hidden camera in the GM offices. Zach Lowe reporting it is good enough for me.

But anything to defend Sam Hinkie the god. When he does something bad it either was just a rumor no truth to it, but when Colangelo does something bad SOUND THE ALARMS!

Attendance is up.
The team has been featured on ESPN and in all basketball related circles.
The best players are Embiid and Simmons.
Multiple first round picks and cap space are still at the 76ers disposal.

All of this thanks to SAM. I am going to sound the alarm right now. When is BC going to do something that is going to have a long term positive effect on this team? He signed Covington to a good contract. But since then Covington has been playing less than stellar. JJ Redick is a one year stop gap. He traded away a valuable asset to get Fultz, who is just not (in my opinion) physically able and mentally able to compete right now. Now when this team needs him.

So yes Sam made a lot of mistakes. But it got us from a negative position in terms of assets and players to where we are today. So tell me what is BC's contribution been or going to be? Trading Noel for a fake #1 pick? Or is he just going to continue to ride the coattails of our former GM?

lol you're doing the same thing Hinkie bashers did except to Colangelo. "When is he going to do ____???" Takes patience. Just like people preached with Hinkie. What did you expect him to do? Turn him into a contender already? He's doing exactly what Hinkie would have done. Draft players, supplement with short term contracts in free agency, try to develop the young studs into stars and bide your time until they can get a superstar in free agency. That was always the plan.

And please cut the "fake first round pick" stuff. That was put out by the PR team, not Colangelo. It was more Scott O'Neil than it was BC. He got fair value for a bad basketball player, on a team that had a logjam of big men created by Sam Hinkie, which significantly hurt any leverage in trade talks.

BC's work is yet to come. The trio of young superstar talents is in place. Now he needs to land a big fish veteran either via free agency or trade. Gotta wait a few more years to fully judge him, but as of right now he's just continuing the rebuild.

And for the record, to even suggest and imply that Covington going cold shooting the ball after the extension is somehow BC's fault is... I don't even know what to say to that.

[spikeslovechild]

Whats bull is the FO allowed him to play hurt now they aren't playing him despite being healthy. WTF.

[BullyKing]

Whats bull is the FO allowed him to play hurt now they aren't playing him despite being healthy. WTF.

Man, that really sums up the absurdity of the situation well. Like playing Embiid last year with a torn meniscus after pretty much sitting him elsewhere in the season with DNP - Case of the Mondays.

[cksdayoff]

cant wait for fultz return into the rotation. actual top tier talent in the backcourt. will change the dynamics of the team

[Eyeamok]

There's no evidence to any reports ever lol. Unless we have a hidden camera in the GM offices. Zach Lowe reporting it is good enough for me.

But anything to defend Sam Hinkie the god. When he does something bad it either was just a rumor no truth to it, but when Colangelo does something bad SOUND THE ALARMS!

Attendance is up.
The team has been featured on ESPN and in all basketball related circles.
The best players are Embiid and Simmons.
Multiple first round picks and cap space are still at the 76ers disposal.

All of this thanks to SAM. I am going to sound the alarm right now. When is BC going to do something that is going to have a long term positive effect on this team? He signed Covington to a good contract. But since then Covington has been playing less than stellar. JJ Redick is a one year stop gap. He traded away a valuable asset to get Fultz, who is just not (in my opinion) physically able and mentally able to compete right now. Now when this team needs him.

So yes Sam made a lot of mistakes. But it got us from a negative position in terms of assets and players to where we are today. So tell me what is BC's contribution been or going to be? Trading Noel for a fake #1 pick? Or is he just going to continue to ride the coattails of our former GM?

lol you're doing the same thing Hinkie bashers did except to Colangelo. "When is he going to do ____???" Takes patience. Just like people preached with Hinkie. What did you expect him to do? Turn him into a contender already? He's doing exactly what Hinkie would have done. Draft players, supplement with short term contracts in free agency, try to develop the young studs into stars and bide your time until they can get a superstar in free agency. That was always the plan.

And please cut the "fake first round pick" stuff. That was put out by the PR team, not Colangelo. It was more Scott O'Neil than it was BC. He got fair value for a bad basketball player, on a team that had a logjam of big men created by Sam Hinkie, which significantly hurt any leverage in trade talks.

BC's work is yet to come. The trio of young superstar talents is in place. Now he needs to land a big fish veteran either via free agency or trade. Gotta wait a few more years to fully judge him, but as of right now he's just continuing the rebuild.

And for the record, to even suggest and imply that Covington going cold shooting the ball after the extension is somehow BC's fault is... I don't even know what to say to that.

You know what man I had a moment. You are right I was kind of sort of blaming BC for Lord Covington's cold streak, which was totally 100% wrong of me. I have to laugh at myself.

I am doing the same thing that people did to Hinkie. Because BC came in as a basketball guy, a guy with real gm experience that was going to make a difference. And thus far his first major impact move is to draft a player that is not ready to play and he gave up valuable assets to get him. I would love to be proven wrong on this one and I would love for Fultz to be all he can be and then some. But for now that is not the case. So let me have my short term vision and let's see how this thing plays out.

[LloydFree]

If he is the guy he was in college, I would say his ceiling is pretty damn high. I do agree (I think) with you in the sense that if Fultz never pans out, BC could lose his job over that. That IS/WAS his defining move. I think he will be very good for this team. Once he gets back and is healthy...I sure as hell hope at the very least

No, I don't agree that Colangelo will get fired if Fultz doesn't pan out. You don't fire a guy for one bad move. You get fired for not overseeing a successful program. As long as Embiid and Simmons are upright, the team will be successful. He'll be fine.

Don't agree about the ceiling. I think he was a good-great college player, who isn't an elite athlete and doesn't have one elite tool. That's just my opinion. I've heard others who have said he has elite level tools. I didn't see that. I saw a good college player.

This isn't really Fultz related but your post made me think about what an acceptable use of the No. 1 overall pick is. In other words, what is the level of player where people think, "yeah, not a generational talent but a decent return for the first pick." CJ McCollum? Bradley Beal? Better? Worse?

Of course, that is a different question whether it is worth it to trade up for a CJ or Beal but just made me wonder. You could look at something like average career WS for a No. 1 pick but that seems too context specific and subject to the extremes (LeBron on one end, the Anthony Bennett's on the other).

A CJ McCollum or Bradley Beal is a good enough return for a 1st overall pick, if you are looking at it as 'how good does the player have to be, before he's considered a disappointment'. Neither player is an All-star, and a 1st overall pick should have a higher anticipated value than that. So I don't think a #1 pick should be a player whose ceiling approaches that level player. And I think most teams who get the #1 pick have higher aspirations for the pick than McCollum or Beal. If that's what the pick turns into, that's fine, you generally can't criticize that level player. But that isn't the goal, in my opinion.

[Negrodamus]

I think it's funny that people criticize Colangelo more for trading Okafor late than those same people do rip Hinkie for drafting Okafor in the first place and not trading him to Boston in 2015 for the Nets pick.

Colangelo inherited a terrible situation. Did he make the best of it? No, but it was largely not his fault.

Wat?

[LongLiveHinkie]

I think it's funny that people criticize Colangelo more for trading Okafor late than those same people do rip Hinkie for drafting Okafor in the first place and not trading him to Boston in 2015 for the Nets pick.

Colangelo inherited a terrible situation. Did he make the best of it? No, but it was largely not his fault.

Wat?

You didn't think the big man situation was a disaster? If not, I don't really know what to say.

[Sixers2125]

I think it's funny that people criticize Colangelo more for trading Okafor late than those same people do rip Hinkie for drafting Okafor in the first place and not trading him to Boston in 2015 for the Nets pick.

Colangelo inherited a terrible situation. Did he make the best of it? No, but it was largely not his fault.

Wat?

Yeah really, I don't think a gm has ever stepped into a better situation than BC. Sure the big man situation wasn't ideal, but he really couldn't have botched that any worse. Overall I think BC has done fine though.

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[Negrodamus]

I think it's funny that people criticize Colangelo more for trading Okafor late than those same people do rip Hinkie for drafting Okafor in the first place and not trading him to Boston in 2015 for the Nets pick.

Colangelo inherited a terrible situation. Did he make the best of it? No, but it was largely not his fault.

Wat?

You didn't think the big man situation was a disaster? If not, I don't really know what to say.

Trade one or both while their value is high. He decided to wait it out for reasons unknown.

Either way, having too many big men doesn’t equal a terrible situation. Waiting it out till they’re worth used toilet paper, on the other hand, is a terrible situation.

[LongLiveHinkie]

Wat?

You didn't think the big man situation was a disaster? If not, I don't really know what to say.

Trade one or both while their value is high. He decided to wait it out for reasons unknown.

Either way, having too many big men doesn’t equal a terrible situation. Waiting it out till they’re worth used toilet paper, on the other hand, is a terrible situation.

lol stop. Hinkie is more to blame for the big man situation than Colangelo, it's not even close. The guy who creates the initial problem is always more to blame in a situation than the one who didn't clean up the mess as well as they could and even then I don't think their value was ever as high as people made it out to be.

[Negrodamus]

You didn't think the big man situation was a disaster? If not, I don't really know what to say.

Trade one or both while their value is high. He decided to wait it out for reasons unknown.

Either way, having too many big men doesn’t equal a terrible situation. Waiting it out till they’re worth used toilet paper, on the other hand, is a terrible situation.

lol stop. Hinkie is more to blame for the big man situation than Colangelo, it's not even close. The guy who creates the initial problem is always more to blame in a situation than the one who didn't clean up the mess as well as they could and even then I don't think their value was ever as high as people made it out to be.

Okay? Despite you changing the argument, it still doesn’t mean Hinkie left Colangelo Covington, Embiid, the path to Simmons, and endless top picks. That’s not “a terrible situation”.

[LongLiveHinkie]

Trade one or both while their value is high. He decided to wait it out for reasons unknown.

Either way, having too many big men doesn’t equal a terrible situation. Waiting it out till they’re worth used toilet paper, on the other hand, is a terrible situation.

lol stop. Hinkie is more to blame for the big man situation than Colangelo, it's not even close. The guy who creates the initial problem is always more to blame in a situation than the one who didn't clean up the mess as well as they could and even then I don't think their value was ever as high as people made it out to be.

Okay? Despite you changing the argument, it still doesn’t mean Hinkie left Colangelo Covington, Embiid, the path to Simmons, and endless top picks. That’s not “a terrible situation”.

I was talking exclusively about the big man situation when I said terrible situation.

[Negrodamus]

lol stop. Hinkie is more to blame for the big man situation than Colangelo, it's not even close. The guy who creates the initial problem is always more to blame in a situation than the one who didn't clean up the mess as well as they could and even then I don't think their value was ever as high as people made it out to be.

Okay? Despite you changing the argument, it still doesn’t mean Hinkie left Colangelo Covington, Embiid, the path to Simmons, and endless top picks. That’s not “a terrible situation”.

I was talking exclusively about the big man situation when I said terrible situation.

That wasn’t readily clear as having Okafor at the peak of his value while in the NBA is not a terrible situation.