Around the NBA - new season chatter

[El Poochio]

If we offered Obi and Mitch now for Wiseman Warriors laugh at our faces

[jvsimonetti0514]

I was cool wit the idea 8+ Mitch for Wiseman but I didn't think there was a big gap in their skillsets. Wiseman is definitely much better offensively. I still think it's questionable to invest that many assets into a big man though.

[3toheadmelo]

It was always to give up Mitch + 8 for him.

On the boards or IRL??? I didn't follow the board arguments too closely.

Both. I remember Begley saying the Knicks had to give up Mitch to make it happen.

[Fat]

If we offered Obi and Mitch now for Wiseman Warriors laugh at our faces

Hate to see it

[Reign23]

I'm sure if we knew the pick would be toppin, more people would have liked the trade.

[3toheadmelo]

I believe the report they were asking for 8, Mitch, and RJ for him

It's just funny to me that the people who are the most thirsty for him wrote entire treatises on how you have to be able to defend in space as a C to win, and that's Wiseman's weak point, that he isn't good at defending in space

I just think it's much easier to build a winning team with a role player at C who plays defense, and offensive guys who aren't as good on defense are much harder to build around (KAT, Jokic, Cousins). Granted, this was based on the hope we would draft someone besides Obi at 8, but I'm not really losing sleep over Wiseman.

Not sure if this is directed at me but us Wiseman fans wanted to pair up Wiseman with RJ. I’ve never heard about the Knicks had to give up RJ to make it happen. It was always to give up Mitch + 8 for him. You guys thought it wasn’t worth it and kept pointing out Mitch’s workout videos and high school footage to prove that he’s just as skilled as Wiseman. I told you he wasn’t but you didn’t wanna hear it
In terms of defending in space, he’s not Kanter bad. If guys like Lopez and Marc Gasol can figure it out then I’m sure Wiseman can.

Why did the argument flip to Wiseman's defense now when the entire knock on him was his offense and how he didn't show his offensive skills in college?

No, the anti Wiseman argument was NOT about his defense, it was about his offense.

But if we really want to talk about crappy defense we can talk about Robinson and how awful he really is defensively. He is awful on rotations, awful being in the right spots, awful communicating, the only thing he can do is make up for his horrible defense with freakish athleticism from time to time but overall that dude is a bad defender if anybody actually pays attention to him.

People wanna change the narratives now instead of admitting they was wrong.

[Tron Carter]

love when a good wiseman game turns into an opportunity to bash mitch. we got him in the 2nd round and wiseman went 2nd overall for a reason you miserable fcks. merry christmas.

[Capn'O]

It was always to give up Mitch + 8 for him.

On the boards or IRL??? I didn't follow the board arguments too closely.

Both. I remember Begley saying the Knicks had to give up Mitch to make it happen.

If it was on the table straight up it's a decent deal. I still like a Hayes move up more where we keep Mitch but that likely wasn't on the table.

[Capn'O]

love when a good wiseman game turns into an opportunity to bash mitch. we got him in the 2nd round and wiseman went 2nd overall for a reason you miserable fcks. merry christmas.

This was always my issue. Mitch is a nice prospect, though with flaws. There is no reason to sully. Then somehow the argument turned to that the Jazz would be better without Gobert and with some ideal player of similar value who couldn't be named. Perhaps there was concern of copyright infringement.

I saw far more sullying than I ever saw arguments for Wiseman which is why I honestly didn't read most of that ****. It was **** boring just like it is now.

[robillionaire]

I didn’t watch the game but I see the warriors lost by 40 so I’m still not really convinced he’d have made our team better or anything

[3toheadmelo]

I believe the report they were asking for 8, Mitch, and RJ for him

It's just funny to me that the people who are the most thirsty for him wrote entire treatises on how you have to be able to defend in space as a C to win, and that's Wiseman's weak point, that he isn't good at defending in space

I just think it's much easier to build a winning team with a role player at C who plays defense, and offensive guys who aren't as good on defense are much harder to build around (KAT, Jokic, Cousins). Granted, this was based on the hope we would draft someone besides Obi at 8, but I'm not really losing sleep over Wiseman.

Not sure if this is directed at me but us Wiseman fans wanted to pair up Wiseman with RJ. I’ve never heard about the Knicks had to give up RJ to make it happen. It was always to give up Mitch + 8 for him. You guys thought it wasn’t worth it and kept pointing out Mitch’s workout videos and high school footage to prove that he’s just as skilled as Wiseman. I told you he wasn’t but you didn’t wanna hear it
In terms of defending in space, he’s not Kanter bad. If guys like Lopez and Marc Gasol can figure it out then I’m sure Wiseman can.

No, what I did was comment about how you would mock people for using high school footage saying it didn't matter when it came to Mitch while simultaneously posting Wiseman's high school footage and calling it definitive proof. Either high school footage can be used for both, or for neither. You wanted it both ways, and it doesn't work like that

And I never said Mitch was as skilled as Wiseman. I repeatedly said Wiseman was a better prospect cause he is. But the opportunity cost of trading up to get him wasn't worth it. You're just strawmanning now.

I literally told you over 10000 times why Wiseman’s high school and college footage was going to translate over Mitch’s. But you was being mad ignorant about it. So you tryna “mock” me didn’t age well at all. Sorry bruh you holding the L.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I mean, you win with great players and Wiseman may become one. I just don't think there was a reasonable deal to get there. Hell, I don't think a reasonable deal even to get to 5 (Hayes) was on the table so I'm not going to waste a million tears when he starts to break out.

Like I was saying during the draft process, if we're trading Mitch and 8 for 2, I'm not taking Wiseman, I'm taking Ball. Shot creating PGs are just much more valuable than Cs with mediocre at best defense. And while Ball is much more raw, the potential is there, though not super likely imo

This really wasn't the year to pay a premium to move up. Lot of really good guys, but no clear superstars. Wouldn't be surprised if the best player ends up being someone take late lotto-mid 20s. Of course, I didn't want us to take Obi, and I do think we missed the mark on that one, but still. Not paying hand over fist for Wiseman or any of the top guys was probably the right move.

Trading Mitch and the 8 for 2 was the right move, and shot creating PGs are only truly valuable when they can also score, even then the league is ruled by wings first and foremost. The point of drafting someone like Wiseman and the thing that a lot of you missed is that he's going to be able to play a two man game with a dominant ball handler like RJ (Or possibly Cade), because he can roll or pop. It's much harder to find that kind of player than it is a PG, yes we don't have a PG, but look around the league it's basically just us that doesn't have one.

He's going to be the best player from this draft, and the Warriors will be able to play a true 5 out system with him, which is what I wanted for us. He's going to be a release valve for his team on offense, and eventually he'll be a offensive option you give the ball to because people will have to respect his faceup jumper and that will open up the drive for him.

[3toheadmelo]

love when a good wiseman game turns into an opportunity to bash mitch. we got him in the 2nd round and wiseman went 2nd overall for a reason you miserable fcks. merry christmas.

I love the saltiness. You was another one on the anti Wiseman gang. We serving crow for y’all today. Merry Christmas.

[Chanel Bomber]

Just want to mention that Sabonis is one of the worst match-ups for Mitch. He's the fake-master (one of Mitch's biggest weaknesses), and a post-up big which prevents Mitch from using his ability to defend in space.

Philly presents a similar challenge, and Mitch has to show up for those individual match-ups as well, but I think he will remind us how good he can be defensively against other teams.

[DOT]

People wanna change the narratives now instead of admitting they was wrong.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1838415&p=75287652&hilit=mitch+high+school#p75287652

And I will count out Mitch from being a decent shooter next year cause he hasn't shown he can shoot in game. High school mixtapes are one thing, and pretty much any player can hit 3s at a decent rate in an empty gym, but until I see him consistently hit shots in game, I'm gonna count him out. I'm not talking about 4 or 5 years down the line, I'm talking about next year

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2032371&p=87266055&hilit=mitch+wiseman#p87266055

I feel like the direct comparison between Wiseman and Mitch is disingenuous

Of course Wiseman is a better prospect, he was supposed to go #1, while Mitch was a 2nd round prospect

The argument against him was, it wasn't worth it to trade Mitch, 8, and whatever else to get Wiseman cause Cs in the modern day aren't franchise players, with the exception of Jokic. Even AD struggled as the franchise guy with decent talent in Nola before joining Bron in LA, and Wiseman is closer to Bagley than AD

Which is why I said if we were gonna move up, it should be for LaMelo, not Wiseman.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2016306&p=86185938&hilit=mitch+wiseman#p86185938

I mean, it's pretty moot anyways

Report says it's 8, Mitch, and one of RJ or a future first

Good teams these days are built around perimeter creators. You can do more with Mitch + 8 + RJ/future pick than you can with just Wiseman

If you're trading up, it's to pick Ball or Edwards. Giving up that much to go from Mitch to Wiseman is poor resource management.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2005269&p=85673622&hilit=mitch+wiseman#p85673622

Like, if you want to argue Wiseman is a better prospect than Mitch, then yeah

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1983864&p=84193920&hilit=mitch+wiseman#p84193920

We really shouldn't move up for anyone except maybe Edwards

I could understand Ball, but I'm not sold on the hype for him

Trading Mitch to move up for Wiseman is just not a good idea.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1926909&p=82493250&hilit=mitch+wiseman#p82493250

My thing about taking Wiseman is, how many good teams are built offensively around dominant bigs?

You have the Nuggets, the Sixers, and arguably the Pacers and Magic (who I'm really stretching the definition of "good" here), and that's it.

Even with guys like KAT and AD, it's been really a struggle for teams to build consistent good teams around them

So for me, I think it'd be better for us to roll with Mitch and use our pick on a good wing/guard prospect. The issue, of course, being that there really isn't a great prospect in this draft. Maybe Anthony Edwards, or LaMelo if you're really high on him, but I think Wiseman is clearly BPA

I'd take Edwards over Wiseman, but that's about it. If nobody offers a godfather deal, just take Wiseman then

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1914588&p=80066013&hilit=mitch+wiseman#p80066013

My argument is that it's easier to build a team around star guards with a defensive role playing C than it is to build around a star offensive C with role playing guards

I do agree though. People do love changing the narrative instead of admitting they were wrong.

[3toheadmelo]

On the boards or IRL??? I didn't follow the board arguments too closely.

Both. I remember Begley saying the Knicks had to give up Mitch to make it happen.

If it was on the table straight up it's a decent deal. I still like a Hayes move up more where we keep Mitch but that likely wasn't on the table.

That’s fair. I liked Hayes too but I had Wiseman on like 5 tiers ahead of him lol. Quickley might be better than Hayes though

[HEZI]

Just want to mention that Sabonis is one of the worst match-ups for Mitch. He's the fake-master (one of Mitch's biggest weaknesses), and a post-up big which prevents Mitch from using his ability to defend in space.

Philly presents a similar challenge, and Mitch has to show up for those individual match-ups as well, but I think he will remind us how good he can be defensively against other teams.

Drummond, Sabonis, Embiid, Jokic, and the list goes on, so basically any center with offensive skills gives Mitch trouble but he will look a lot better against rim runner like himself who are limited offensively

[thebuzzardman]

Read on Twitter

2 guaranteed top 10 picks.
Just wow

Looks like the GSW's get to tear the Knicks heart out twice by taking the good players just ahead of them in the first round.

Glad to see nothing ever changes for the Knicks, ever.

[HarthorneWingo]

Wiseman -18

Brook Lopez +14

Oh man, I love how you guys are trippin over one game.

[robillionaire]

Read on Twitter

2 guaranteed top 10 picks.
Just wow

Looks like the GSW's get to tear the Knicks heart out twice by taking the good players just ahead of them in the first round.

Glad to see nothing ever changes for the Knicks, ever.

We could probably just tank if we want to prevent this. Fact is they earned their pick by tanking and the Knicks got what we deserved by chasing several meaningless wins, as always