Saberestar wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:Saberestar wrote:IF our FO and KD agree that the best thing is to work on a trade with the Spurs I would like to get one of these two packages:
1) One package that includes Castle.
Harrison Barnes will be there too as a salary filler and decent role player but other than him I don't really care too much about the other pieces in the trade if Castle is there.
2) Vassell, Sochan, Keldon Johnson AND #8 in 2025 Draft.
Multiple good players but without All-Star potential and the 8th pick (presumably) in next year's draft.
I'd love Castle obviously but they'd have no interest in doing that because they're plan is to create a big 3 for themselves with Wemby, Durant and Fox but keep Castle too. I'd push hard for him, but it most likely won't happen at all.
Then with the alternative premise, The thing is that we shouldn't want or have any interest in Johnson and his multiyear money as Johnson's
another 6'5-6'6 scoring SG. SO that would just be doubling down on what we already have with Booker and Beal on big money. And Johnson being the lesser of the three anyways.
At least with Barnes, you have a 6'8 SF/ PF that offers 19 million in cap relief as an expiring. So if taking back Johnson's multiyear deal in the trade, we'd better be getting BOTH the 8th ( SAS 25' 1st) and 16th picks ( ATL 25' 1st) in the deal!
And honestly, KDs' trade value is still at the baseline of 1-2 good young rotation players - a solid starter/ complimentary players- salary fillers/ 2 good 1sts.
- Vassell. (centerpiece) good rotation- starter level player.
- Barnes. (filler) complimentary player/ big salary filler.
- Sochan. complimentary player/ salary filler (sweetener).
- 2 1sts.
All thresholds are met in this package. But if taking back Johnson's multiyear money, then you're likely still stuck in the 2nd apron which then lowers the incoming value exchange.
They're keeping all of their high end core players and lottery pick rookies in Castle and Wemby here, so the value is pretty solid for San Antonio here ( in my proposed package).
But anything less than that and it just doesn't make sense for us as other teams like Miami would still offer multiple expirings, young players and multiple picks ( firsts). There'll be plenty of bidders this summer so we won't really have to settle for a crap return.
If you think that about Keldon Johnson you have never seen the guy play basketball, he has never played SG.
He is a banger who loves physical contact ( nice sentence lol) and plays basically as an undersized PF. He plays most of his minutes as a 3/4 and isn't a good defender, but he plays hard and can score the ball in a variety of ways.
I would prefer him over Barnes because he is entering his prime years and he can play the 6th man role.
I really hope you're joking man! I've seen plenty of Keldon Johnson going back to his time at Kentucky! It's great that he enjoys physicality, it really is, but he's
6'5!!! so slightly taller than Royce O'neal. And he hasn't averaged more than 5-6 rebounds in his entire career, even going back to college and his time at Oak Hill Academy! He's physical sure, but regardless of people claiming he's a SF, he's actually an undersized SG!!! What some envision him to be due to his style of play because he can't consistently shoot well just doesn't change that reality.
Tell me what the average height is for the majority of teams' SF/PFs man? Remind me, what was the major advantage that Boston and Minnesota had against us? I'll help out............ Height and athleticism. And that's still what's missing on our roster, and you're promoting tying up multiple years of salary in an undersized SG masquerading as a SF only because he also can't shoot well. We already have 3 undersized SFs that can't shoot well (aside from maybe O'neale when he gets streeaky in anomalous situations), and you want to add another and get even more undersized man? Do you know he also only has a 1% block percentage, averaging only 0.4 blocks per 36! He also only has a 1.4% steal percentage, averaging only 1.0 steals per game. So he's not a defensive player by any measure.
He's a 6'5 220 lb offensive SG/ undersized SF/PF (as you yourself acknowledge) that isn't a good shooter and gets the majority of his offense through drives to the rim and scoring around the basket. His playing at the SF/PF position is an antiquated, gimmicky concept when the league was promoting a small ball premise. But currently, the trend is towards bigger, faster, elite athletic tall, long, aggressive dominant players. So, if he's obviously not offering/addressing defense for us and also isn't really a good shooter either, then what exactly do we need him for at the cost of 17 million over the next couple of seasons?
We don't need to be getting smaller and more unathletic. We need to be getting much bigger and longer and add explosive athleticism. Sure, we need physical play too. But the effectiveness of that will often be negated by his lack of overall size and length. And while we carry Beal on the roster, we really don't need another premised 6th man option. Ultimately, Johnson is a glorified role player getting paid like a starter who's skillset is a less athletic Okogie with slightly better shooting, but no real defense, and no real floor spacing consistency. Taking back his money in a KD trade is an absolute negative towards correcting things man. You say he's an SF/PF, right? So who replaces KD at the 4 post trade? Look at the PFs in the West and throughout the league. Who's he really match up well against that he'll face at 6'5, physicality or not?
My point here, man is that he may be solid for an undersized whatever position you see him at, but not 17 million over the next three years solid, and not given his skillset and deficiencies. taking back his money along with Vassells' means we're at best shaving maybe 10 million off our total cap in this trade, eating the two contracts San Antonio doesn't want to keep (doing them a favor), while also getting much smaller in the frontcourt too even though size and athleticism is clear paramount issue for us. At least with Barnes we'd cut 20 million or could use his expiring in another trade.
But what we absolutely should not be doing is taking back large multi-year salaries for positionally redundant players with limited skillsets while also getting smaller in our frontcourt too! It's just really the wrong direction for us to be heading.
/ Nick Smith Jr/ DEN 26' 2nd/ GS 26' 2nd. 
