Game 61: Phoenix Suns (31-29) @ Miami Heat (25-33)

[JTrain]

THE SHIP IS SINKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OH NO!!!!!! TRADING TWO ROTATIONS PLAYERS SHOULD TAKE NO TRANSITIONAL PERIOD AT ALL!!!!!!!!!! WE SHOULD BE IN THE PLAYOFFS OR WE SHOULD BE TANKING!!!!!!!!! WE AREN'T DOING EITHER, WE'RE JUST WINNING OCCASIONALLY AND LOSING OCCASIONALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS TEAM SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE'RE DOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!

No wonder Kieff called out our fans.

I was told he was angry that fans were misspelling his nickname.

[bwgood77]

Idk. Markieff was on the team with Nash and Hill his rookie year and I do not remember hearing anything bad about him back then. I really only remember things started to happen once the Suns acquired his brother and put them together.

I doubt many rookies have the courage to say much of anything to vets their rookie years. They now feel like they are the faces of the franchise.

But I do want to say, I think Kieff is a good player and I don't think he is that big of a problem. For some reason, though, Marcus seems to be. Even when you hear them talk or read their quotes, Kieff seems reasonable, and then you hear the stories of the fight, Kieff was the guy who didn't overreact.

Kieff is a SOLID player on a good contract. I don't know if Marcus is envious because he was the better college player and is just generally pissed off, or what, but something isn't right there.

It's almost too bad Kieff has a twin at all (in respect to the Suns situation) because whatever move you make regarding those guys, there are potential problems, and Kieff may have one of the best contracts in the league, so trading them both could weaken the team depending on who you got back.

[SarcasticSun]

I'm gonna laugh my ass off if Dragic ends up getting less than $20M/yr and his haters here all end up with egg on their face

As long as its not an insanely cheap contract, which it won't be, I will still hold firm that we made the right decision. Committing to Dragic would have been a mistake, not a knock on Dragic, his age just didn't fit with the rest of our core. A Dragic/Bledsoe was not going to win a championship. I'm iffy on a Knight/Bledsoe back court as well, luckily we have at least the rest of the season to evaluate it.

[bwgood77]

I really don't know, but I would guess Horny could be a really good coach if he had a group of mature, reasonable, coachable guys like the Warriors or Bucks or something. It seems that we have basically the least compatible group of players for a coach with his personality.

And maybe he played a significant role in who we've drafted, because I feel like we got just the type of quiet, coachable types that Horny loves in Len, Archie, TJ and Ennis. Unfortunately, the group he inherited might sink his ship before he gets a chance for those guys to really become the team.

It's funny what the perception is of what type of coach he is here vs what it is for people who know him. He IS a hardnosed guy. He doesn't get in your face and can remain calm, much like many demanding coaches who remain calm for the most part during games, but he is by no means what you think he is.

Honestly, I think if you brought in a new coach with these same players it would be more disastrous. I've watched it happen time and time again....people complain about a coach, a new one comes in, and it gets REALLY bad. There might be a couple of guys who could work better with these guys but I'm skeptical.

[RunDogGun]

Who cares what Goran gets. He bitched his way off the team, stating he was unhappy playing off the ball, yet tonight, he had no problem doing exactly what he said made him so unhappy? So either he is an idiot, and had no idea why he was mad, and played poorly because if it. Or he he just wanted to go to a big market team where he could make more money, and his wife could be in a place to make her own money.

Either way, he is a good player, that should have spent his summer working on the things to make himself better as a player. He should have worked on his free throw shooting, and his three pointers. He could have still averaged 20+ points even with Bledsoe and IT on the team.

But watching Wade bring the ball up so much, when Goran was in the game, made me think he was full of sh*t about wanting to be the main guy.

[bwgood77]

I'm gonna laugh my ass off if Dragic ends up getting less than $20M/yr and his haters here all end up with egg on their face

As long as its not an insanely cheap contract, which it won't be, I will still hold firm that we made the right decision. Committing to Dragic would have been a mistake, not a knock on Dragic, his age just didn't fit with the rest of our core. A Dragic/Bledsoe was not going to win a championship. I'm iffy on a Knight/Bledsoe back court as well, luckily we have at least the rest of the season to evaluate it.

I think the majority think, that given the circumstance, it WAS the right move...but that it never should have gotten to that point in the first place.

About a backcourt not winning championships. I don't think they were a problem backcourt...and if we had real cornerstones, I think they could be the backcourt on a team with a chance to contend. No matter who you have, you are never guaranteed a championship.

People may be saying "I knew Durant and Westbrook as your main players could never win a championship" and so far they would be proven right, but it is a stupid statement.

Bledsoe is (probably) not a guy who is going to be the cornerstone and best player on a championship team.....but he is definitely a pg who could be part of one if we had that star or a bunch of really solid players.

[Kerrsed]

Just finished the game and heres my take:

1. Keiffs foul on Dragic wasnt flagrant. He went for the ball and the only reason why Dragic landed as hard and awkwardly as he did was because after the foul he was still turning to make the basket.

2. We started doing what we should be doing in games, taking the ball to the hoop and either making shots or drawing fouls. For some reason we quit doing that in the 3rd and 4th quarters, which boggled my mind as their 1 shot blocker was kicked out of the game. Towards the end of the 4th when Bledsoe came back in, he started going to the rim again, which all of a sudden reminded the rest of the team that they can do the same and not just keep passing the ball around the 3 point line.

3. The double ejection was a cop out by the refs. I saw when the 1st altercation with Whiteside happened, and was surprised it wasnt mentioned and that Len kept his cool. When it happened a 2nd time i was ready for Len to pop him in the mouth (which he didnt), but instead he just pushed him off of him. Whiteside with the double-leg take down was comical, as he really didnt want none of Len. Whiteside should have been kicked with maybe a T on Len, but once again the ref's caved in.

4. Im tired of seeing Wade get superstar treatment. That pump-fake foul on Green was bulls**t. I re-watched it multiple times and even though he got Green in the air, Green still did not touch him. That pissed me off.

5. I like the Bledsoe/Knight combo.

6. Dragic was playing like ass. I was pissed at EJ talking at the end about how efficient he was, when half his points came shooting FT's when the clock was stopped. He then hit a few 3 pointers at the end, but big deal, he still looked like ass out there on the court to me.

7. Coach needs to stand up for our players more. He just looks like he is moping around on the sidelines. There were numerous plays that resulted in very bad calls and Jeff just paces. I have yet to see him get a tech for yelling at the refs and standing up for our players, which is something that he should and needs to do.

8. Overall it was an interesting game. We wernt beat by Wade or Dragic or Deng, but some little used players that probably wernt even on the scouting report. It was a gotcha game. Kinda like when you are facing a team that just lost a few major pieces due to injury or trade, and they plug in seldom seen players. You never really know what you are going against. That was this game.

9. This game was also "Turnover-City". Left and right we kept losing the ball. But still, the man that some people want to call a turnover machine only had 1.

Look, we already knew that we were out of the playoff hunt before the allstar break, so a few losses while trying to incorporate our new players and seldom used guys was to be expected. The rest of this season is to develop our guys and see what we really have so we can re-evaluate our team at the end of the season and make adjustment where needed. Oh well, on to the next one!

[JTrain]

I really don't know, but I would guess Horny could be a really good coach if he had a group of mature, reasonable, coachable guys like the Warriors or Bucks or something. It seems that we have basically the least compatible group of players for a coach with his personality.

And maybe he played a significant role in who we've drafted, because I feel like we got just the type of quiet, coachable types that Horny loves in Len, Archie, TJ and Ennis. Unfortunately, the group he inherited might sink his ship before he gets a chance for those guys to really become the team.

It's funny what the perception is of what type of coach he is here vs what it is for people who know him. He IS a hardnosed guy. He doesn't get in your face and can remain calm, much like many demanding coaches who remain calm for the most part during games, but he is by no means what you think he is.

Honestly, I think if you brought in a new coach with these same players it would be more disastrous. I've watched it happen time and time again....people complain about a coach, a new one comes in, and it gets REALLY bad. There might be a couple of guys who could work better with these guys but I'm skeptical.

Just how hard-nosed can you be if the millions watching you for hours and hours on television never see it materialize? Who are these friends of Horny that you know and what specifically have they told you?

[RunDogGun]

I'm not sure if anyone likes math, but Bledsoe shot better than Goran tonight, except from the line. Bledsoe only shot one more shot.
All you have to do is find a common denominator and convert.

[Jdiddy701]

Next time Suns play Thomas or Dragic, they will have a better team. Wish it was tomorrow but gonna have to wait a long offseason.


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[cyclix]

I'm not sure if anyone likes math, but Bledsoe shot better than Goran tonight, except from the line. Bledsoe only shot one more shot.
All you have to do is find a common denominator and convert.

G. Dragic tonight:

15 MP | .667 TS | 57.4 PER | .960 WS/48

Eric Bledsoe tonight:

34 MP | .674 TS | 22.1 PER | .141 WS/48

[RunDogGun]

Just finished the game and heres my take:

1. Keiffs foul on Dragic wasnt flagrant. He went for the ball and the only reason why Dragic landed as hard and awkwardly as he did was because after the foul he was still turning to make the basket.

2. We started doing what we should be doing in games, taking the ball to the hoop and either making shots or drawing fouls. For some reason we quit doing that in the 3rd and 4th quarters, which boggled my mind as their 1 shot blocker was kicked out of the game. Towards the end of the 4th when Bledsoe came back in, he started going to the rim again, which all of a sudden reminded the rest of the team that they can do the same and not just keep passing the ball around the 3 point line.

3. The double ejection was a cop out by the refs. I saw when the 1st altercation with Whiteside happened, and was surprised it wasnt mentioned and that Len kept his cool. When it happened a 2nd time i was ready for Len to pop him in the mouth (which he didnt), but instead he just pushed him off of him. Whiteside with the double-leg take down was comical, as he really didnt want none of Len. Whiteside should have been kicked with maybe a T on Len, but once again the ref's caved in.

4. Im tired of seeing Wade get superstar treatment. That pump-fake foul on Green was bulls**t. I re-watched it multiple times and even though he got Green in the air, Green still did not touch him. That pissed me off.

5. I like the Bledsoe/Knight combo.

6. Dragic was playing like ass. I was pissed at EJ talking at the end about how efficient he was, when half his points came shooting FT's when the clock was stopped. He then hit a few 3 pointers at the end, but big deal, he still looked like ass out there on the court to me.

7. Coach needs to stand up for our players more. He just looks like he is moping around on the sidelines. There were numerous plays that resulted in very bad calls and Jeff just paces. I have yet to see him get a tech for yelling at the refs and standing up for our players, which is something that he should and needs to do.

8. Overall it was an interesting game. We wernt beat by Wade or Dragic or Deng, but some little used players that probably wernt even on the scouting report. It was a gotcha game. Kinda like when you are facing a team that just lost a few major pieces due to injury or trade, and they plug in seldom seen players. You never really know what you are going against. That was this game.

9. This game was also "Turnover-City". Left and right we kept losing the ball. But still, the man that some people want to call a turnover machine only had 1.

Look, we already knew that we were out of the playoff hunt before the allstar break, so a few losses while trying to incorporate our new players and seldom used guys was to be expected. The rest of this season is to develop our guys and see what we really have so we can re-evaluate our team at the end of the season and make adjustment where needed. Oh well, on to the next one!

Well put. With that said, I think Green is done for the season, as is Thornton. I think we can try and reach an agreement of a buyout, to let them pick up with a team, and then fill the roster with ten day contracts, or cheap guys from Bakersfield.

I still want to see 16 minutes of pairings of Bledsoe/Bullock and Knight/Goodwin. If anything clicks, then we build from there. I'm also fine with trying TJ and Tucker at the starting forward spots. Keef has been good, but I just don't think he rebounds enough, nor defensive enough to pair with TJ. If our goal is to maximize what we have, and evaluate talent, then this would be the best going forward.

So start Beldsoe, Knight, Warren, Tucker, and Len. Bring in the Morris brothers together along with Goodwin, when you sub out Bledsoe. Then bring in Wright to rest Len, or early if foul trouble happens. Then when Knight sits, you bring in Bullock, and then maybe move Tucker to the three with Morris at the four, to ease Bullock into his role.

Then you finish the game with whoever is playing best. It's a ten man rotation.

[Frank Lee]

do the math with Knight.

then do it with #8

WTF was guarding him BTW

[bwgood77]

Just how hard-nosed can you be if the millions watching you for hours and hours on television never see it materialize? Who are these friends of Horny that you know and what specifically have they told you?

I'm not talking about friends but about writers who sit close to the team and say Hornacek is demanding, and leads the team in the right way. Obviously I haven't read that as of late, but he is well respected around the league and media. I have not once seen anyone who covers this stuff closely question him as much as people do here, but that has happened with every coach we've ever had.

This is a young team that probably is playing more to their relative talent in comparison to other teams than they did last year. He did a great job with a team that everyone thought had no talent last year. I expected this team to struggle with team concepts after meshing together a bunch of new players last year, but they were good. This year, we made more changes and now we are playing more in line with what I expected at the beginning of last year.

We have gone even younger, and got rid of our professional veteran of last year, and this year our only other professional veteran (yes, I know he wasn't very professional at the very end) but now with no vets and a team with almost all really young guys who have started for a year or less, along with a role player in Tucker, struggle often. I don't think that is abnormal. No vet coach is going to be a playoff contender with a bunch of guys who have not started more than a year (other than Tucker). Knight has started for longer than that, but he is still finding his way with the team.

The last two games have been inexcusably bad, but those things happen. If it happens for 10 straight games I might re-assess but this team, on paper is, at worst, right about where they probably should be in the standings.

[RunDogGun]

I'm not sure if anyone likes math, but Bledsoe shot better than Goran tonight, except from the line. Bledsoe only shot one more shot.
All you have to do is find a common denominator and convert.

G. Dragic tonight:

15 MP | .667 TS | 57.4 PER | .960 WS/48

Eric Bledsoe tonight:

34 MP | .674 TS | 22.1 PER | .141 WS/48

And 5-9 is 50-90, while 6-10 is 54-90. Maybe you misunderstood what I wrote.

[SarcasticSun]

Next time Suns play Thomas or Dragic, they will have a better team. Wish it was tomorrow but gonna have to wait a long offseason.


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Boston most likely. Miami? Maybe, I think Miami will be decent with Bosh/Dragic/Whiteside..although I think they should've just blown it up after LeBron left. Basically, they're banking on a championship with Dragic/Bosh/Deng/Whiteside/Old Wade, they have like a four year window with them. We might be better than them nexy year. It all depends on how Bledose/Knight mesh, and how much Len improves (maybe some post moves are next?).

[Nando88]

When do the Hire D'antoni Threads start?


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[JTrain]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ByTimReynolds/status/572557489876692992[/tweet]

[JTrain]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ByTimReynolds/status/572558438133321728[/tweet]

[bwgood77]

Next time Suns play Thomas or Dragic, they will have a better team. Wish it was tomorrow but gonna have to wait a long offseason.


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Boston most likely. Miami? Maybe, I think Miami will be decent with Bosh/Dragic/Whiteside..although I think they should've just blown it up after LeBron left. Basically, they're banking on a championship with Dragic/Bosh/Deng/Whiteside/Old Wade, they have like a four year window with them. We might be better than them nexy year. It all depends on how Bledose/Knight mesh, and how much Len improves (maybe some post moves are next?).

I think he was saying the next time we play them, WE will have a better team, which is why he wishes it were tomorrow, but I could be wrong.