NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[ty 4191]

Shoots like Dirk, distributes like Bird, too sweet inside like McHale, bigger than Gasol? Looks like it, best hands since I don’t even know.

Jokic is absurd.

Career:

Aaron Gordon from ts% 53.1 before Jokic to ts% 61.2 (+8.1) with Jokic
KCP from ts% 54.1 before Jokic to ts% 61.8 (+7.7) with Jokic
Bruce Brown from ts% 54.8 before Jokic to ts% 59.0 (+4.2) with Jokic

The underestimation of the importance of playmaking.

I'm sure that also Murray and MPJ would have a ts 4-5% lower without Jokic

https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/team?Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612743&PlayerId=203999

Based on "2 point FGM Assist %" and "3 point FGM assist %", it looks like the Nuggets are about 15% more efficient when Jokic is on the court vs. off.

Truly staggering stuff.

Jokic's assist percentage among all centers this season:

Jokic: 45.6%
Siakam: 30.6%
Embiid: 25.3%
Plumlee: 19.2%
Looney: 16.6%

Jokic's assists/game is currently the highest in NBA history by any center in any season.

[cam24thomas]

Looks like it's Jokic vs Doncic this year... LOL

The way its going, the Nets will finish way ahead of the pack, so that'd give the edge to KD.
Plus the voters probably will assume Doncic wins MVPs in the future, so they won't be in a hurry to give it to Doncic now, and they probably would rather not give it to Jokic again....

Eh some hesitancy to give Jokic a 3rd MVP can be expected but a lot of media members are bursting at the seems to crown Doncic as the next big thing with LeBron on the way out. KD should be in the convo but they'd need to be the best team in the league and even then he'd have the same case Tatum has now and he's not the frontrunner either.

I never thought Tatum was an all-time great or champion, so its not the same as KD.
Plus when I watch them play KD looks like someone you could trust in the NBA Finals, while Tatum looks like someone who would only shoot 37% in the NBA Finals.
So I'm pretty sure the voters are way more impressed with KD than with Tatum.... because KD looks unguardable.
Also, Boston having the lead in December, wasn't impressive, whereas Brooklyn finishing the entire season seeded #1 is impressive.
And Brooklyn's remaining schedule is the 7th easiest in the NBA, so its only going to get easier.

[Archx]

https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/team?Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612743&PlayerId=203999

Based on "2 point FGM Assist %" and "3 point FGM assist %", it looks like the Nuggets are about 15% more efficient when Jokic is on the court vs. off.

Just to add, Nuggets also shoot about 8% better with Jokic on the floor. His next best opponent Doncic, Mavs shoot 7% better with him on the floor.

[mcmurphy]

Shoots like Dirk, distributes like Bird, too sweet inside like McHale, bigger than Gasol? Looks like it, best hands since I don’t even know.

Jokic is absurd.

Career:

Aaron Gordon from ts% 53.1 before Jokic to ts% 61.2 (+8.1) with Jokic
KCP from ts% 54.1 before Jokic to ts% 61.8 (+7.7) with Jokic
Bruce Brown from ts% 54.8 before Jokic to ts% 59.0 (+4.2) with Jokic

The underestimation of the importance of playmaking.

I'm sure that also Murray and MPJ would have a ts 4-5% lower without Jokic

https://nbamath.com/the-nbas-most-efficient-passers/

'"But the true outlier here is Nikola Jokic, who boosts the Denver Nuggets’ efficiency levels by a smidgen under 14 percentage points.

This isn’t a fluke created by his position or role. If it were, you’d see players such as Marc Gasol and Paul Millsap much higher on the y-axis. Instead, it’s a testament to Jokic’s knack for putting the ball in the perfect spot.

He accumulates his fair share of outlet passes and is often willing to kick the ball to the perimeter after an ill-fated post-up attempt, which is why he doesn’t fare better in passes per assist.
...

Denver was right to hand him the keys to its offense.

Keep in mind, this article is from 2017, and his passing has gotten substantially more lethal since then...

I perfectly remember this article from 2017... reading it I thought: "wow, finally someone who managed to put the eye test into a statistic"

[CharityStripe34]

Second half of the season is going to be a fascinating run to the trophy.

[mcmurphy]

https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/team?Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612743&PlayerId=203999

Based on "2 point FGM Assist %" and "3 point FGM assist %", it looks like the Nuggets are about 15% more efficient when Jokic is on the court vs. off.

Just to add, Nuggets also shoot about 8% better with Jokic on the floor. His next best opponent Doncic, Mavs shoot 7% better with him on the floor.

The context between Jokic, Doncic and KD.
No need to comment.

[iggymcfrack]

Shoots like Dirk, distributes like Bird, too sweet inside like McHale, bigger than Gasol? Looks like it, best hands since I don’t even know.

Jokic is absurd.

Career:

Aaron Gordon from ts% 53.1 before Jokic to ts% 61.2 (+8.1) with Jokic
KCP from ts% 54.1 before Jokic to ts% 61.8 (+7.7) with Jokic
Bruce Brown from ts% 54.8 before Jokic to ts% 59.0 (+4.2) with Jokic

The underestimation of the importance of playmaking.

I'm sure that also Murray and MPJ would have a ts 4-5% lower without Jokic

https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/team?Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612743&PlayerId=203999

Based on "2 point FGM Assist %" and "3 point FGM assist %", it looks like the Nuggets are about 15% more efficient when Jokic is on the court vs. off.

Truly staggering stuff.

Jokic's assist percentage among all centers this season:

Jokic: 45.6%
Siakam: 30.6%
Embiid: 25.3%
Plumlee: 19.2%
Looney: 16.6%

Jokic's assists/game is currently the highest in NBA history by any center in any season.

And then in addition to having one of the best passing seasons of all-time, he also has the highest TS% for any player averaging at least 20 PPG. He’s honestly probably having the best offensive season of all-time.

[advent11]

Yall saying Jokic having the best offensive season ever when all the advanced metrics (RAPM, EPM, RAPTOR, RPM, BPM) yall cited last year in favor of Jokic all point to Luka having the better offensive season.

[Exp0sed]

Yall saying Jokic having the best offensive season ever when all the advanced metrics (RAPM, EPM, RAPTOR, RPM, BPM) yall cited last year in favor of Jokic all point to Luka having the better offensive season.

idk about "best ever", as discussed ad nauseum - comparing between eras is very difficult and frankly, impossible

however, Jokic and Doncic are both having all-time great offensive seasons, at least up to this point and they are very close, either way u wanna slice it, with Jokic on top atm or Luka, no1 would argue they aren't close to each other

they're close and way ahead of the rest

the metrics you cited aren't offensive metrics, so i'm not sure what ur trying to say - what does rapm or raptor have to do with "best offensive season" (or not)?

[advent11]

Yall saying Jokic having the best offensive season ever when all the advanced metrics (RAPM, EPM, RAPTOR, RPM, BPM) yall cited last year in favor of Jokic all point to Luka having the better offensive season.

the metrics you cited aren't offensive metrics, so i'm not sure what ur trying to say - what does rapm or raptor have to do with "best offensive season" (or not)?

Should have been more specific: Their offensive components.

[Duke4life831]

I’ll say it again. There are about 3-4 guys having legit MVP worthy seasons. Then you have Jokic and Luka having historic seasons.

If we go with the hypothetical of all these guys stay healthy and keep on this pace.

If Nuggets get the #1 seed: Jokic wins
If Nuggets don’t get the #1 seed and Mavs get top 3: Luka wins
If both of those don’t happen, I think it goes to whoever has the best record out of the next group.

[iggymcfrack]

After this winning streak where Luka’s done everything, I can’t have him behind Tatum any more. I actually feel like it’s now kind of Jokic, then Luka, then a little bit of a gap for the rest of the league although Tatum, Embiid, Giannis, and Durant are all having excellent seasons too.

[Kurtz]

At some point, all of the rest games that Giannis is getting have to take him out of this race entirely. Imo, atm it's:

1. Luka 2. Joker 3. Tatum (best player on the best team wins MVP a lot, historically).

[Sgt Major]

KD is flying under the radar at the moment, in my opinion, but he should be higher than Embiid and Giannis.

[playa-hater]

just remember the MVP lead will go up and down many times this season. having a good/great week or 2 can do that. Jokic is still at/near the top.. Luka should be in 2nd because of his historic week.. If Tatum strings together some great games he will be right back up there if he isn't already,.

and Yes KD should be right there as well.

[BelgradeNugget]

People to Jokic: you are the MVP
Jokic: no I'm not I don't score enough
People: only truth MVP is unselfish enough to not care about stats
Jokic: OK you will see, any time I touch the ball I will pass it
People: see he is MVP he is historically good at passing
Jokic: I can't be MVP taking only 15 shots per game
People: he must be MVP, nobody has been this efficient
Jokic: OK I'm MVP, now leave me alone

Watch on YouTube

[Zespetjest]

I would like to see any other frontrunner for MVP to take Luka's team and do what he does. Oh and BTW that team is heavily depleted by injuries last couple of WEEKS!

[TheProfessor]

1. Jokic 2. Luka 3. Durant.

[AleksandarN]

I would like to see any other frontrunner for MVP to take Luka's team and do what he does. Oh and BTW that team is heavily depleted by injuries last couple of WEEKS!

You obviously didn’t watch the Nuggets last couple of years. Jokic had Austin Rivers, Facundo Campazzo and Will Barton as starters at times and still beat the Blazers.

[zimpy27]

I don't think Jokic can win the MVP a third time without a championship ring. I feel there is a definite wall in NBA when it comes to this.

Luka will win it this year I think. LeBron was 24 when he won his first MVP, Luka will be 24 too.