2025-2026: Around the League

[Knightro]

But you are still replacing production from the highest usage players imaginable last season with either Tristan da Silva or Jonathan Isaac. Nobody can tell me that reality was unavoidable for the last 5 years up to now.

But aren’t you also the same person who complained when they took Penda at 32 instead of a 4th center?

I just think for someone like you who doesn’t like Weltman (which is fine btw), there is no pleasing you. You’re just gonna be upset about whatever they do.

[Knightro]

I just think a lot of the chatter on this board is framed as…

“The front office hasn’t done ____.”

When reality it’s actually…

“The front office hasn’t done ____ with guys that I liked.”

And those are two different things.

[VFX]

But you are still replacing production from the highest usage players imaginable last season with either Tristan da Silva or Jonathan Isaac. Nobody can tell me that reality was unavoidable for the last 5 years up to now.

But aren’t you also the same person who complained when they took Penda at 32 instead of a 4th center?

I just think for someone like you who doesn’t like Weltman (which is fine btw), there is no pleasing you. You’re just gonna be upset about whatever they do.

You have this issue for the last few months of taking things out of context I say here because you are on some kick that what I’m saying is by no means valid. You don’t like that I’m consistent and my takes here haven’t changed in 4+ seasons now despite the tone changing around the team for one trade.

Like saying on your podcast you are going to have an argument or issue with me in particular because I make points about Weltman. I think he did well this offseason. I liked the Tyus signing. I was whelmed with Jase for #25. They put on their big boy pants and hired a real coach. Good job. Do I like ALL of his moves? Absolutely not. That bothers you for some reason.

No, I was against Penda because he’s now the third PF on a team with Paolo and Franz logging 34-36+ mpg. A guy that is raw offensively and doesn’t look like he can shoot. Maybe I’m wrong about that, but he isn’t replacing Isaac’s minutes is he? A player half the forum thinks is still existing in 2016.

Instead, we aren’t taking swings on Centers anymore because we would rather pay 3 of them instead of replacing one of them with rookie scale salary on higher upside. It’s almost common sense if you can wrap your head around more than 1+ roster move. Thats very complicated here for some reason.

[VFX]

I just think a lot of the chatter on this board is framed as…

“The front office hasn’t done ____.”

When reality it’s actually…

“The front office hasn’t done ____ with guys that I liked.”

And those are two different things.

Give me a concrete example of this.

If I say “the offense production off the bench is lacking” who in particular am I talking about? That’s a general statement and is absolutely true.

It doesn’t make it less true because the wind is blowing in a different direction and leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

[jezzerinho]

I just think a lot of the chatter on this board is framed as…

“The front office hasn’t done ____.”

When reality it’s actually…

“The front office hasn’t done ____ with guys that I liked.”

And those are two different things.

Nonsense Knightro. 90% of those who have been critical of Weltman have been the same way for a number of seasons and their reasons have been consistent.

[BadMofoPimp]

Being every single board on RealGM has posters who hate their GM, I think people tend to play too much NBA2K to the point where they think they can armchair GM better than an actual GM. AI Teams on NBA2k tend to accept trades with more reasonable offers than in real life.

[Knightro]

*Since drafting Paolo* the Magic have…

Drafted a point guard 6th overall.

Drafted a shooting guard 11th overall.

Drafted a “ready to play” senior SF/PF 18th overall.

Signed a highly regarded veteran shooting guard for 21 million dollars a year.

They retained every player that showed a reasonable pulse at any point during previous seasons.

The personnel moves they’ve done not working out doesn’t mean they weren’t attempting to address perceived weaknesses. They tried to and some of them just didn’t work.

[RichCollab]

*Since drafting Paolo* the Magic have…

Drafted a point guard 6th overall.

Drafted a shooting guard 11th overall.

Drafted a “ready to play” senior SF/PF 18th overall.

Signed a highly regarded veteran shooting guard for 21 million dollars a year.

They retained every player that showed a reasonable pulse at any point during previous seasons.

The personnel moves they’ve done not working out doesn’t mean they weren’t attempting to address perceived weaknesses. They tried to and some of them just didn’t work.

Is this revisionist history? Most fans were out or close to out on this FO.

[Knightro]

*Since drafting Paolo* the Magic have…

Drafted a point guard 6th overall.

Drafted a shooting guard 11th overall.

Drafted a “ready to play” senior SF/PF 18th overall.

Signed a highly regarded veteran shooting guard for 21 million dollars a year.

They retained every player that showed a reasonable pulse at any point during previous seasons.

The personnel moves they’ve done not working out doesn’t mean they weren’t attempting to address perceived weaknesses. They tried to and some of them just didn’t work.

Is this revisionist history? Most fans were out or close to out on this FO.

It’s not revisionist history.

The front office absolutely deserves criticism for every move that did not work. Every failure is firmly on them.

But I do take some issue with people suggesting they did nothing but sit on their hands when the reality he’s more that they didn’t do what the people complaining would have done. And those things aren't the same thing.

[tooler]

The theme of this whole thing is not about moves that worked or didn't work. It's sitting on their hands for too long, and failing to produce a team with a top 20 offense at any point in their tenure.

[SOUL]

The theme of this whole thing is not about moves that worked or didn't work. It's sitting on their hands for too long, and failing to produce a team with a top 20 offense at any point in their tenure.

I think the argument is just what exactly is "far too long" if our best players are still pre-prime and what would be immediately blocking our young guys we invested high picks in to be actual point guards in Suggs/Black, regardless if they worked out there or not.

I will always have gripes with our 2nd round usage and not getting a Tyus Jones sort of steady PG a year or two earlier - otherwise it didn't make sense not to be patient and let guys settle into roles, whether it was going to be at the position we envisioned them at or not.

The second one is just unfortunate but it's always going to be driven by our best players. At least this year we'll be around that or better, providing decent health.

[MasterGMer]

*Since drafting Paolo* the Magic have…

Drafted a point guard 6th overall.

Drafted a shooting guard 11th overall.

Drafted a “ready to play” senior SF/PF 18th overall.

Signed a highly regarded veteran shooting guard for 21 million dollars a year.

They retained every player that showed a reasonable pulse at any point during previous seasons.

The personnel moves they’ve done not working out doesn’t mean they weren’t attempting to address perceived weaknesses. They tried to and some of them just didn’t work.

Maybe they were accumulating assets that could be used in trades I may be wrong

[eyriq]

The theme of this whole thing is not about moves that worked or didn't work. It's sitting on their hands for too long, and failing to produce a team with a top 20 offense at any point in their tenure.

They didn't sit on their hands. They made the playoffs, showed the old core had a ceiling, then rebuilt patiently around Suggs, Franz, and Paolo. The win-now shift came right as their second contracts approached, which is exactly how you time it.

[eyriq]

The theme of this whole thing is not about moves that worked or didn't work. It's sitting on their hands for too long, and failing to produce a team with a top 20 offense at any point in their tenure.

I think the argument is just what exactly is "far too long" if our best players are still pre-prime and what would be immediately blocking our young guys we invested high picks in to be actual point guards in Suggs/Black, regardless if they worked out there or not.

I will always have gripes with our 2nd round usage and not getting a Tyus Jones sort of steady PG a year or two earlier - otherwise it didn't make sense not to be patient and let guys settle into roles, whether it was going to be at the position we envisioned them at or not.

The second one is just unfortunate but it's always going to be driven by our best players. At least this year we'll be around that or better, providing decent health.

Weltman followed the Presti rebuild model. He tanked by focusing on development, not by chasing losses. He gave young players a clear path and didn’t block it with short-term vets. That’s not sitting on your hands, that’s executing a patient, sustainable plan.

[VFX]

The theme of this whole thing is not about moves that worked or didn't work. It's sitting on their hands for too long, and failing to produce a team with a top 20 offense at any point in their tenure.

I think the argument is just what exactly is "far too long" if our best players are still pre-prime and what would be immediately blocking our young guys we invested high picks in to be actual point guards in Suggs/Black, regardless if they worked out there or not.

I will always have gripes with our 2nd round usage and not getting a Tyus Jones sort of steady PG a year or two earlier - otherwise it didn't make sense not to be patient and let guys settle into roles, whether it was going to be at the position we envisioned them at or not.

The second one is just unfortunate but it's always going to be driven by our best players. At least this year we'll be around that or better, providing decent health.

I’ll respond to this post because I think it’s the most rational on this page of the thread.

A few things here. I like generally Weltman’s moves this offseason. Aside from nitpicking the second round pick I think everything else finally made sense in terms of addressing what was needed while clearing up obvious missteps from the previous two seasons (KCP and Coles extension).

NOW

That being said, I don’t personally believe they treated Paolo/Franz development accurately up until a month ago.

Getting two new offense oriented coaches now in Paolo and Franz basically max extension years? Yeah I’m glad they addressed it. Why did it take 4 years to happen? Waiting too long to address the obvious. Nobody needed to see an extra year or two of the coaching staff to know they weren’t up to the task.

No point guard signing until now. So the argument from someone like Eyriq is that Paolo and Franz were always supposed to be the dominant ball handlers. Ok well wouldn’t you want to hedge your bets if not? Was the only option relying on guys 1-2 years into the league for 3-4 seasons? Hard to buy wholesale. The result is still bottom tier offense if you think the last 3 seasons are an anomaly.

The other side of this argument is what Knightro was talking about “yeah man they did A LOT it just didn’t work”. Yeah they made draft selections and sat back hoping they panned out. And?

And where did it get them? Drafting yet another guard hoping he fits into the future SL after witnessing what we all knew about AB and Suggs after year 1. Yeah, they are good players with specific skillsets. It doesn’t mean you stake the entire development of your two franchise cornerstones on some 18 year old that may or may not work out due to your spotty draft history. The revisionist cope is that they were never lead guard “cuz u don’t need one in this specific system rite”. They just needed one now when things got a little hot and assets tightened up too much to take that fifth risk lol. Glad Tyus is aboard.. moving on.

So the point of the Extend Weltman thread is to say “don’t look over there look here now as a gotcha.” Yeah, sorry I want to see it play out first. I’m not going to disregard the last 4 years because some lottery balls fell a certain way and we didn’t botch two drafts. It doesn’t make anything else I brought up less true. It makes Knightro mad the last 4 years can’t be scrubbed from memory like he’s from MIB.

Let’s be optimistic but not ridiculous. Let’s be real with how everything has been handled since 2017 and not be children discussing this all like nothing happened, infinitely better decisions couldn’t have been made, or none of it mattered up until a month ago.

[eyriq]

*Since drafting Paolo* the Magic have…

Drafted a point guard 6th overall.

Drafted a shooting guard 11th overall.

Drafted a “ready to play” senior SF/PF 18th overall.

Signed a highly regarded veteran shooting guard for 21 million dollars a year.

They retained every player that showed a reasonable pulse at any point during previous seasons.

The personnel moves they’ve done not working out doesn’t mean they weren’t attempting to address perceived weaknesses. They tried to and some of them just didn’t work.

Exactly right. They've made a clear, active effort to rebuild the guard rotation and have spent major draft capital doing it. Just because not every move hit doesn’t mean there wasn’t a plan. The intent to address those gaps has been there every step of the way.

[Bensational]

Let’s be optimistic but not ridiculous. Let’s be real with how everything has been handled since 2017 and not be children discussing this all like nothing happened, infinitely better decisions couldn’t have been made, or none of it mattered up until a month ago.

Well yeah, let’s be real then about the state of the franchise in 2017. To quote Kevin Durant:

Like I'm the reason why [expletive] Orlando couldn't make the playoffs for five, six years in a row?" Durant told USA Today Sports in an article published Friday. "Am I the reason that Brooklyn gave all their picks to Boston? Like, am I the reason that they're not that good? [Laughs.]

I’m not saying the moves made by WeHam were the best and only path, but that’s where the franchise started with them and today their path has us poised and considered as serious contenders in the East.

I just think we’ve forgotten how dismal the team was when WeHam took over, and there was a lot of heavy lifting of rebuilding culture and identity that doesn’t show up immediately as player acquisitions.

Might not be the preferred path, but again, the path got us to this point. So whilst plenty of criticisms have been and still are valid, we can’t go back in time and we can only move forward with the solid foundation WeHamPark have built for us.

[Knightro]

It makes Knightro mad the last 4 years can’t be scrubbed from memory like he’s from MIB.

It's less this and more just me being annoyed with the incessant complaining about the past that keeps happening in the present.

We get it. You don't like how they've approached certain things. I don't like some/a lot of the things they did either.

But for goodness sake every single thread doesn't need to turn into "well you know if they had just addressed this exact thing that I think they should have addressed sooner than now!" and it just makes my eyes glaze over.

I just want to sit around and shoot the breeze with my friends during the first Summer League game and two minutes into it we have people going...



WHY DIDN'T THEY TAKE RAYNAUD INSTEAD OF THIS FAT FRENCH BUST?!

And it's just like, c'mon man. Have fun with the team. They're going to be good. The negativity over what they did/didn't do over the last four years just wears me out

[eyriq]

It makes Knightro mad the last 4 years can’t be scrubbed from memory like he’s from MIB.

It's less this and more just me being annoyed with the incessant complaining about the past that keeps happening in the present.

We get it. You don't like how they've approached certain things. I don't like some/a lot of the things they did either.

But for goodness sake every single thread doesn't need to turn into "well you know if they had just addressed this exact think that I think they should have addressed sooner than now!" and it just makes my eyes glaze over.

I just want to sit around and shoot the breeze with my friends during the first Summer League game and two minutes into it we have people going...



WHY DIDN'T THEY TAKE RAYNAUD INSTEAD OF THIS FAT FRENCH BUST?!

And it's just like, c'mon man. Have fun with the team. They're going to be good. The negativity over what they did/didn't do over the last four years just wears me out

Yeah, this tracks. The loudest critics are usually the ones who got it dead wrong. They missed the antitank sentiment when Weltman first took over and seemed to cling to the old core too long. Then they missed the shift to the organic rebuild model when he tore it all down. Now that the plan is coming together on schedule, they’re scrambling to rewrite the timeline.

[VFX]

It makes Knightro mad the last 4 years can’t be scrubbed from memory like he’s from MIB.

It's less this and more just me being annoyed with the incessant complaining about the past that keeps happening in the present.

We get it. You don't like how they've approached certain things. I don't like some/a lot of the things they did either.

But for goodness sake every single thread doesn't need to turn into "well you know if they had just addressed this exact think that I think they should have addressed sooner than now!" and it just makes my eyes glaze over.

I just want to sit around and shoot the breeze with my friends during the first Summer League game and two minutes into it we have people going...



WHY DIDN'T THEY TAKE RAYNAUD INSTEAD OF THIS FAT FRENCH BUST?!

And it's just like, c'mon man. Have fun with the team. They're going to be good. The negativity over what they did/didn't do over the last four years just wears me out

Yeah, this tracks. The loudest critics are usually the ones who got it dead wrong. They missed the antitank sentiment when Weltman first took over and seemed to cling to the old core too long. Then they missed the shift to the organic rebuild model when he tore it all down. Now that the plan is coming together on schedule, they’re scrambling to rewrite the timeline.

Thanks for proving my point. As expected.