Fisher: Raptors are still shopping RJ Barrett and Immanuel Quickley

[YogurtProducer]

I honestly think Quickley is the most important player this year how he performs has a significant effect on who scottie/ingram can be

You wouldn't be alone. Zach Lowe said on his pod that the season's outcome hinges on IQ.

I don’t really agree with this. We know what IQ is. He’s going to put up 18/6/3 while hitting 3’s at 39%. The season hinges on him only so much that we need him to be healthy. I do not believe there is any type of jump coming from IQ. The 6th man types who make the “jump” do so right away when given the chance. If he were going to be a 23ppg guy we’d have seen it already.

The season hinges more on Barnes (offensive improvement and ability to be all D level) and Poeltl (health).

We can survive missing IQ for 30 games. We can’t really survive a stagnant Barnes or Poeltl missing 30 games.

This is an entirely inaccurate and bad take. We actually do not know what IQ is - as we have literally never seen him as the starting PG on a team that was not tanking.

Also, he likely is going to be a 34-35mpg guy. Just based on his time in TOR, that makes him roughly a 21/5/7 guy, not a 18/3/6 guy.

He doesn't need to "make a jump" to vastly outperform your projections. And if he was going to make a leap... it probably would be the age 26 season in which he is healthy and going to be a starting PG for the first time in his career.

[YogurtProducer]

In his ‘24 run with us RJ was basically finishing at the rim like prime Giannis or LeBron. I am doubtful he can replicate that. My guess is he probably comes in around league average efficiency (which is still an improvement).

Prime Giannis shot 84% at the rim, and LBJ shot 80%.

RJ shot 73% at the rim that season.

Wildly inaccurate to say he was finishing like prime Giannis/Lebron.

Gus that shot 71-75% at the rim last year included Derrick White, Powell, SGA, Haliburton, Reaves, Hart, etc. It really is not crazy to think he could return to those guys level as a rim guy.

[mihaic]

In his ‘24 run with us RJ was basically finishing at the rim like prime Giannis or LeBron. I am doubtful he can replicate that. My guess is he probably comes in around league average efficiency (which is still an improvement).

Prime Giannis shot 84% at the rim, and LBJ shot 80%.

RJ shot 73% at the rim that season.

Wildly inaccurate to say he was finishing like prime Giannis/Lebron.

Gus that shot 71-75% at the rim last year included Derrick White, Powell, SGA, Haliburton, Reaves, Hart, etc. It really is not crazy to think he could return to those guys level as a rim guy.

You mean smaller guys like you quoted. RJ is not a PF. The Giannis and Lebron comps are uninspired.

But he probably meant finishing at a very high percentage, which is possible for him.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

If everything stays the same and RJ just ups his FT% to like 75% hes already an above average scorer and likely adds 2-3ppg more to his average. I can see the pathway for him being a rotation player on a good team and I would actually look to resign him on a cheaper AAV deal if he is able to continue improving his three point shooting and passing. His olympic play next to Shai was a perfect example of how good he can look in a reduced offensive role.

I'd be more willing to package IQ and Dick + whatever appropriate amount of picks for a star guard. Trae immediately comes to mind, but also someone like Garland or Fox if those teams decide to pivot. I think whatever IQ does well can easily be replaced, but we lack someone who can pressure the rim like RJ and him improving as a FT shooter would drastically improve his overall value as a player.

I struggle to see an IQ leap unless he turns into Dame as a shooter or something, I think hes at most a 20/6 guy with decent efficiency. I don't like him in isolation or taking many off the dribble pull up 3's.

[causal_fan]

RJ is going to be the MVP of the Raptors this coming season.

[ConSarnit]

You wouldn't be alone. Zach Lowe said on his pod that the season's outcome hinges on IQ.

I don’t really agree with this. We know what IQ is. He’s going to put up 18/6/3 while hitting 3’s at 39%. The season hinges on him only so much that we need him to be healthy. I do not believe there is any type of jump coming from IQ. The 6th man types who make the “jump” do so right away when given the chance. If he were going to be a 23ppg guy we’d have seen it already.

The season hinges more on Barnes (offensive improvement and ability to be all D level) and Poeltl (health).

We can survive missing IQ for 30 games. We can’t really survive a stagnant Barnes or Poeltl missing 30 games.

This is an entirely inaccurate and bad take. We actually do not know what IQ is - as we have literally never seen him as the starting PG on a team that was not tanking.

Also, he likely is going to be a 34-35mpg guy. Just based on his time in TOR, that makes him roughly a 21/5/7 guy, not a 18/3/6 guy.

He doesn't need to "make a jump" to vastly outperform your projections. And if he was going to make a leap... it probably would be the age 26 season in which he is healthy and going to be a starting PG for the first time in his career.

I mean, he’s literally been a starting PG the last 2 seasons. He’s started 71/71 games he’s been available for the Raptors over 2 seasons.

-played 33mpg in 2024 and didn’t break 19ppg on a tanking team where he could have easily imposed himself more if he chose to

-is now on a team who is adding a player who is probably going to take 18fga (Ingram). This is going to move everyone down the pecking order and mean less shots for everyone else

-I’m probably underestimating his rebounding potential but his reb% has stayed flat since he’s entered the league so that will likely be minutes based (which I don’t have much confidence in him playing much above 32mpg).

We’ve seen very little evidence IQ can handle playing 35mpg. He’s been on a tanking team 2 years in a row (where there have been plenty of shot opportunities) and he still never really imposed himself. You’re acting like he’s been some bench guy and he’s just now becoming a starter. Could he average 20ppg? Sure, but given how he’s played so far with us AND the fact that we have more mouths to feed I don’t see how he’s going to scale up his scoring or minutes in any meaningful fashion.

As this team gets better (as it did adding Ingram) then everyone else is dropping in the pecking order. That includes reduction in FGA and creation opportunities (assists). This is going to affect everyone, including IQ. I will add that there is absolutely nothing wrong with IQ if he averages 18/6/3 while playing good defense, providing very good spacing and good secondary playmaking. If he’s going to be a 2b/3rd option he’s just not going to get the touches to make some big leap.

[ConSarnit]

In his ‘24 run with us RJ was basically finishing at the rim like prime Giannis or LeBron. I am doubtful he can replicate that. My guess is he probably comes in around league average efficiency (which is still an improvement).

Prime Giannis shot 84% at the rim, and LBJ shot 80%.

RJ shot 73% at the rim that season.

Wildly inaccurate to say he was finishing like prime Giannis/Lebron.

Gus that shot 71-75% at the rim last year included Derrick White, Powell, SGA, Haliburton, Reaves, Hart, etc. It really is not crazy to think he could return to those guys level as a rim guy.

You mean smaller guys like you quoted. RJ is not a PF. The Giannis and Lebron comps are uninspired.

But he probably meant finishing at a very high percentage, which is possible for him.

I was using nba.com numbers within 5 feet, which closes the gap compared to Yogurt’s bballref 0-3ft numbers, at least when compared to Lebron or Giannis.

My main contention is: RJ’s finishing jumped up nearly 10% over a 32 game sample size and then regressed back to his norm this past season. As of right now his high 60’s finishing number was an outlier based on less than half a season.

RJ’s elite finishing stretch ran for almost the exact same length as Barnes “40% from 3” stretch did (32-33 games). Oddly enough I don’t see anyone saying Barnes is going to get back to being a 40% 3pt shooter even though that’s about 9% above his career average too.

[YogurtProducer]

I mean, he’s literally been a starting PG the last 2 seasons. He’s started 71/71 games he’s been available for the Raptors over 2 seasons.

Of those 71 games, he got traded to a new team in 2024, and in 2025 had literally 1 stretch of consecutive games that was longer than 6 games (and it was only 12). He averaged 21/5/5 in 31mpg in that 12 game stretch he actually got some legs under him.

Not to mention, he has career averages of 30mpg here. Extrapolate that up 34/35mpg which he will play next year... and we are at approximately 21/4/7.

-played 33mpg in 2024 and didn’t break 19ppg on a tanking team where he could have easily imposed himself more if he chose to

He got traded mid-season lol But if you look deeper you can see his #'s increase as the season went on

Jan - 17/4/6 in 32mpg
Feb - 18/4/5 in 33mpg
Mar - 19/6/10 in 36mpg
Apr - 23/6/8 in 32mpg (64TS%!!)

Sooo.. yeah he did impose himself later in the year as he got comfortable and the #'s all went up.

-is now on a team who is adding a player who is probably going to take 18fga (Ingram). This is going to move everyone down the pecking order and mean less shots for everyone else

Ingram doesn't change the fact that IQ is our best ball handler and playmaker. RJ, and Scottie, will lose shots. IQ? Not so much. SOMEONE has to fire 9 3's a night (it wont be Scottie, or RJ).

-I’m probably underestimating his rebounding potential but his reb% has stayed flat since he’s entered the league so that will likely be minutes based (which I don’t have much confidence in him playing much above 32mpg).

I really could not be bothered to discuss the rebounding prowess of a **** PG lol.

But if we must, he is a solid rebounding PG. His 7.5% rate in TO is extremely close to a guy like Lowry who was at 8.0% in TOR.

We’ve seen very little evidence IQ can handle playing 35mpg. He’s been on a tanking team 2 years in a row (where there have been plenty of shot opportunities) and he still never really imposed himself. You’re acting like he’s been some bench guy and he’s just now becoming a starter. Could he average 20ppg? Sure, but given how he’s played so far with us AND the fact that we have more mouths to feed I don’t see how he’s going to scale up his scoring or minutes in any meaningful fashion.

There is no evidence he CANT handle playing 35mpg. It is not like he gets hurt because of big minutes or has chronic injuries - the guy has had some of the flukiest injuries since coming to TO (like breaking fingers from teammates kicks), and he was relatively healthy in NYK and in college.

It is nearly impossible "to impose yourself" when you yourself are being traded and are in and out of the lineup. H

As this team gets better (as it did adding Ingram) then everyone else is dropping in the pecking order. That includes reduction in FGA and creation opportunities (assists). This is going to affect everyone, including IQ. I will add that there is absolutely nothing wrong with IQ if he averages 18/6/3 while playing good defense, providing very good spacing and good secondary playmaking. If he’s going to be a 2b/3rd option he’s just not going to get the touches to make some big leap.

Sure, but if IQ averages 18/6/3 that means you expect him to have a less productive season than he has shown to you for the last 2 years in limited minutes. Again, he has been a 21/5/7 guy per 36, and he is going to play closer to 36mpg than 30mpg in a season we are trying to win.

[mihaic]

Prime Giannis shot 84% at the rim, and LBJ shot 80%.

RJ shot 73% at the rim that season.

Wildly inaccurate to say he was finishing like prime Giannis/Lebron.

Gus that shot 71-75% at the rim last year included Derrick White, Powell, SGA, Haliburton, Reaves, Hart, etc. It really is not crazy to think he could return to those guys level as a rim guy.

You mean smaller guys like you quoted. RJ is not a PF. The Giannis and Lebron comps are uninspired.

But he probably meant finishing at a very high percentage, which is possible for him.

I was using nba.com numbers within 5 feet, which closes the gap compared to Yogurt’s bballref 0-3ft numbers, at least when compared to Lebron or Giannis.

My main contention is: RJ’s finishing jumped up nearly 10% over a 32 game sample size and then regressed back to his norm this past season. As of right now his high 60’s finishing number was an outlier based on less than half a season.

RJ’s elite finishing stretch ran for almost the exact same length as Barnes “40% from 3” stretch did (32-33 games). Oddly enough I don’t see anyone saying Barnes is going to get back to being a 40% 3pt shooter even though that’s about 9% above his career average too.

His role was different in that stretch. I obviously cannot say if he can or not replicate, but as a Raptor fan I hope he can if he is switching back to that role.

Also I hope he practices lots of FTs. That is an area that can improve his game impact and efficiency, as he can clearly get to the line. .

[YogurtProducer]

You mean smaller guys like you quoted. RJ is not a PF. The Giannis and Lebron comps are uninspired.

But he probably meant finishing at a very high percentage, which is possible for him.

I was using nba.com numbers within 5 feet, which closes the gap compared to Yogurt’s bballref 0-3ft numbers, at least when compared to Lebron or Giannis.

My main contention is: RJ’s finishing jumped up nearly 10% over a 32 game sample size and then regressed back to his norm this past season. As of right now his high 60’s finishing number was an outlier based on less than half a season.

RJ’s elite finishing stretch ran for almost the exact same length as Barnes “40% from 3” stretch did (32-33 games). Oddly enough I don’t see anyone saying Barnes is going to get back to being a 40% 3pt shooter even though that’s about 9% above his career average too.

His role was different in that stretch. I obviously cannot say if he can or not replicate, but as a Raptor fan I hope he can if he is switching back to that role.

Also I hope he practices lots of FTs. That is an area that can improve his game impact and efficiency, as he can clearly get to the line. .

Yeah like there was a clear improvement in RJ's efficiency when there was a clear change in RJ's role from what he was as a Knick, and what he was last year out of necessity.

His efficiency skyrocketed to end 2024 when he was playing off guys (as you can see by the proportion of shots assisted vs not). Then it went back down to earth again last year when he had to create more than he did to end 2024.

Also - RJ has been incredibly efficient with Team Canada when he again is in a supporting role next to SGA and not creating.

So as long as we have IQ/Ingram around (most) of the time, I would fully expect a more efficient season from RJ.

[OAKLEY_2]

If everything stays the same and RJ just ups his FT% to like 75% hes already an above average scorer and likely adds 2-3ppg more to his average. I can see the pathway for him being a rotation player on a good team and I would actually look to resign him on a cheaper AAV deal if he is able to continue improving his three point shooting and passing. His olympic play next to Shai was a perfect example of how good he can look in a reduced offensive role.

I'd be more willing to package IQ and Dick + whatever appropriate amount of picks for a star guard. Trae immediately comes to mind, but also someone like Garland or Fox if those teams decide to pivot. I think whatever IQ does well can easily be replaced, but we lack someone who can pressure the rim like RJ and him improving as a FT shooter would drastically improve his overall value as a player.

I struggle to see an IQ leap unless he turns into Dame as a shooter or something, I think hes at most a 20/6 guy with decent efficiency. I don't like him in isolation or taking many off the dribble pull up 3's.

Def. think the move is keep RJ and move IQ but... if we are losing IQ shooting no way am I kneejerking Dick into that trade. Dick is a kid and when he gets a man's physique he is gonna be good at least on offence. No worse than Grayson Allen.

[Pointgod]

I mean, he’s literally been a starting PG the last 2 seasons. He’s started 71/71 games he’s been available for the Raptors over 2 seasons.

Of those 71 games, he got traded to a new team in 2024, and in 2025 had literally 1 stretch of consecutive games that was longer than 6 games (and it was only 12). He averaged 21/5/5 in 31mpg in that 12 game stretch he actually got some legs under him.

Not to mention, he has career averages of 30mpg here. Extrapolate that up 34/35mpg which he will play next year... and we are at approximately 21/4/7.

-played 33mpg in 2024 and didn’t break 19ppg on a tanking team where he could have easily imposed himself more if he chose to

He got traded mid-season lol But if you look deeper you can see his #'s increase as the season went on

Jan - 17/4/6 in 32mpg
Feb - 18/4/5 in 33mpg
Mar - 19/6/10 in 36mpg
Apr - 23/6/8 in 32mpg (64TS%!!)

Sooo.. yeah he did impose himself later in the year as he got comfortable and the #'s all went up.

-is now on a team who is adding a player who is probably going to take 18fga (Ingram). This is going to move everyone down the pecking order and mean less shots for everyone else

Ingram doesn't change the fact that IQ is our best ball handler and playmaker. RJ, and Scottie, will lose shots. IQ? Not so much. SOMEONE has to fire 9 3's a night (it wont be Scottie, or RJ).

-I’m probably underestimating his rebounding potential but his reb% has stayed flat since he’s entered the league so that will likely be minutes based (which I don’t have much confidence in him playing much above 32mpg).

I really could not be bothered to discuss the rebounding prowess of a **** PG lol.

But if we must, he is a solid rebounding PG. His 7.5% rate in TO is extremely close to a guy like Lowry who was at 8.0% in TOR.

We’ve seen very little evidence IQ can handle playing 35mpg. He’s been on a tanking team 2 years in a row (where there have been plenty of shot opportunities) and he still never really imposed himself. You’re acting like he’s been some bench guy and he’s just now becoming a starter. Could he average 20ppg? Sure, but given how he’s played so far with us AND the fact that we have more mouths to feed I don’t see how he’s going to scale up his scoring or minutes in any meaningful fashion.

There is no evidence he CANT handle playing 35mpg. It is not like he gets hurt because of big minutes or has chronic injuries - the guy has had some of the flukiest injuries since coming to TO (like breaking fingers from teammates kicks), and he was relatively healthy in NYK and in college.

It is nearly impossible "to impose yourself" when you yourself are being traded and are in and out of the lineup. H

As this team gets better (as it did adding Ingram) then everyone else is dropping in the pecking order. That includes reduction in FGA and creation opportunities (assists). This is going to affect everyone, including IQ. I will add that there is absolutely nothing wrong with IQ if he averages 18/6/3 while playing good defense, providing very good spacing and good secondary playmaking. If he’s going to be a 2b/3rd option he’s just not going to get the touches to make some big leap.

Sure, but if IQ averages 18/6/3 that means you expect him to have a less productive season than he has shown to you for the last 2 years in limited minutes. Again, he has been a 21/5/7 guy per 36, and he is going to play closer to 36mpg than 30mpg in a season we are trying to win.

If you look at the top 5 teams in points per game last season none of them had 3 20 point scorers. It’s doubtful that Ingram, Barrett, Quickley will all average 3 while Barnes maintains his 19ppg from last year.

I agree the Quickley is our best ball handler but Ingram is a high usage guy who needs the ball in his hands. Ingram averaged 18 shots during his career in New Orleans despite playing with other high volume scorers, Barrett was still getting 16/17 shots a game in NY playing with two high usage guys.

Unless Barnes drops his usage and field goal attempts, I don’t see a realistic path for Quickley to be 20 ppg player if this team is reasonably healthy. Keep in mind we were already number 6 in field goal attempts last year.

[ConSarnit]

I mean, he’s literally been a starting PG the last 2 seasons. He’s started 71/71 games he’s been available for the Raptors over 2 seasons.

Of those 71 games, he got traded to a new team in 2024, and in 2025 had literally 1 stretch of consecutive games that was longer than 6 games (and it was only 12). He averaged 21/5/5 in 31mpg in that 12 game stretch he actually got some legs under him.

Not to mention, he has career averages of 30mpg here. Extrapolate that up 34/35mpg which he will play next year... and we are at approximately 21/4/7.

-played 33mpg in 2024 and didn’t break 19ppg on a tanking team where he could have easily imposed himself more if he chose to

He got traded mid-season lol But if you look deeper you can see his #'s increase as the season went on

Jan - 17/4/6 in 32mpg
Feb - 18/4/5 in 33mpg
Mar - 19/6/10 in 36mpg
Apr - 23/6/8 in 32mpg (64TS%!!)

Sooo.. yeah he did impose himself later in the year as he got comfortable and the #'s all went up.

-is now on a team who is adding a player who is probably going to take 18fga (Ingram). This is going to move everyone down the pecking order and mean less shots for everyone else

Ingram doesn't change the fact that IQ is our best ball handler and playmaker. RJ, and Scottie, will lose shots. IQ? Not so much. SOMEONE has to fire 9 3's a night (it wont be Scottie, or RJ).

-I’m probably underestimating his rebounding potential but his reb% has stayed flat since he’s entered the league so that will likely be minutes based (which I don’t have much confidence in him playing much above 32mpg).

I really could not be bothered to discuss the rebounding prowess of a **** PG lol.

But if we must, he is a solid rebounding PG. His 7.5% rate in TO is extremely close to a guy like Lowry who was at 8.0% in TOR.

We’ve seen very little evidence IQ can handle playing 35mpg. He’s been on a tanking team 2 years in a row (where there have been plenty of shot opportunities) and he still never really imposed himself. You’re acting like he’s been some bench guy and he’s just now becoming a starter. Could he average 20ppg? Sure, but given how he’s played so far with us AND the fact that we have more mouths to feed I don’t see how he’s going to scale up his scoring or minutes in any meaningful fashion.

There is no evidence he CANT handle playing 35mpg. It is not like he gets hurt because of big minutes or has chronic injuries - the guy has had some of the flukiest injuries since coming to TO (like breaking fingers from teammates kicks), and he was relatively healthy in NYK and in college.

It is nearly impossible "to impose yourself" when you yourself are being traded and are in and out of the lineup. H

As this team gets better (as it did adding Ingram) then everyone else is dropping in the pecking order. That includes reduction in FGA and creation opportunities (assists). This is going to affect everyone, including IQ. I will add that there is absolutely nothing wrong with IQ if he averages 18/6/3 while playing good defense, providing very good spacing and good secondary playmaking. If he’s going to be a 2b/3rd option he’s just not going to get the touches to make some big leap.

Sure, but if IQ averages 18/6/3 that means you expect him to have a less productive season than he has shown to you for the last 2 years in limited minutes. Again, he has been a 21/5/7 guy per 36, and he is going to play closer to 36mpg than 30mpg in a season we are trying to win.

If you look at the top 5 teams in points per game last season none of them had 3 20 point scorers. It’s doubtful that Ingram, Barrett, Quickley will all average 3 while Barnes maintains his 19ppg from last year.

I agree the Quickley is our best ball handler but Ingram is a high usage guy who needs the ball in his hands. Ingram averaged 18 shots during his career in New Orleans despite playing with other high volume scorers, Barrett was still getting 16/17 shots a game in NY playing with two high usage guys.

Unless Barnes drops his usage and field goal attempts, I don’t see a realistic path for Quickley to be 20 ppg player if this team is reasonably healthy. Keep in mind we were already number 6 in field goal attempts last year.

This is my train of thought too. Could IQ average 22? Sure. Will he given the construction of the team and the fact that we added a clear cut #1 (which should lead to his usage decreasing), I doubt it.

And the assumption that he can play 35mpg makes little sense to me. There are 25 players in the league who play 35mpg. Barnes led our team at 33mpg. So we’ve got a guy who hasn’t had the best health record and we’ve got a coach who isn’t running guys into the ground (like Nurse was). There just aren’t many guys playing 35mpg anymore.

My prediction on what IQ will give us is based on a variety of factors yet and I threw out what I “think” IQ will average and not what he “can” average (under absolutely ideal conditions like him playing 35mpg and being the clear #2 option).

I don’t really rank IQ much different than Yogurt. I just don’t think he’ll play the minutes or get the touches to make a big leap in his counting stats.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

If everything stays the same and RJ just ups his FT% to like 75% hes already an above average scorer and likely adds 2-3ppg more to his average. I can see the pathway for him being a rotation player on a good team and I would actually look to resign him on a cheaper AAV deal if he is able to continue improving his three point shooting and passing. His olympic play next to Shai was a perfect example of how good he can look in a reduced offensive role.

I'd be more willing to package IQ and Dick + whatever appropriate amount of picks for a star guard. Trae immediately comes to mind, but also someone like Garland or Fox if those teams decide to pivot. I think whatever IQ does well can easily be replaced, but we lack someone who can pressure the rim like RJ and him improving as a FT shooter would drastically improve his overall value as a player.

I struggle to see an IQ leap unless he turns into Dame as a shooter or something, I think hes at most a 20/6 guy with decent efficiency. I don't like him in isolation or taking many off the dribble pull up 3's.

Def. think the move is keep RJ and move IQ but... if we are losing IQ shooting no way am I kneejerking Dick into that trade. Dick is a kid and when he gets a man's physique he is gonna be good at least on offence. No worse than Grayson Allen.

Dick’s shooting is all theoretical. There’s no actual evidence he’s that much better shooter versus Ja Kobe. He’s pretty good at open catch and shoot threes was so are a lot of people. Dick’s value will plummet once his reputation catches up to his actual performance.

[PhilBlackson]

Just trade Ochai for some type of pick (hopefully late 1st, more likely 2nds) IF we can’t use RJ to upgrade. I know he’s paid substantially more but he does make a greater impact and who cares if we’re already under the apron post trade?!

It clears the way for JaKobe who’s basically an upgraded version (something like an Aaron Neismith). Let RJ be a bit of scoring punch like Mathurin. Then next season as an expiring & with more and more teams feeling the cap crunch we have a better chance to net something of value for RJ (who’s value might actually go up when the Raps are a playoff/competitive team and he was a good piece) and as a minor benefit another likely nice cheap young piece from whatever draft pick we got for Ochai.

[YogurtProducer]

If you look at the top 5 teams in points per game last season none of them had 3 20 point scorers.

CLE would have if they didn't blow everyone out and only play their started 30mpg.

Same with MEM - they ran low minutes for starters, and even then, they had a 23ppg, 22ppg, and 19.2ppg guy.

DEN's top 3 was 29ppg, 21ppg, and 18ppg. We don't have a 29ppg guy to soak that many possessions.

OKC - see DEN above

ATL - had 3 guys average 19+ppg

There is nothing special above the 20ppg barometer anyways. It is completely arbitrary.

It’s doubtful that Ingram, Barrett, Quickley will all average 3 while Barnes maintains his 19ppg from last year.

Barnes is not going to maintain his 19ppg is my guess. He will be 4th in priority to get buckets in the SL. RJ to saw his production drop with IQ playing (only 19ppg).

I agree the Quickley is our best ball handler but Ingram is a high usage guy who needs the ball in his hands. Ingram averaged 18 shots during his career in New Orleans despite playing with other high volume scorers, Barrett was still getting 16/17 shots a game in NY playing with two high usage guys.

Sure, but Quickley is still gonna put up 9 or so 3's a night. He is the high usage 3 point guy. Not RJ, Ingram, or Scottie. He is going to give us 9-12 points per night simply off hitting 3-4 threes. Not to crazy to think he still gets his 3 or so from the FT line, and a couple 2's. His path to scoring is just "easier" than it is for a guy like RJ, or Scottie.

Unless Barnes drops his usage and field goal attempts, I don’t see a realistic path for Quickley to be 20 ppg player if this team is reasonably healthy. Keep in mind we were already number 6 in field goal attempts last year.

Barne will drop his usage, unless he makes fundamental improvements across the board offensively.

If Barnes comes back the same player he was last year offensively, and we continue to give him as high of a usage as we have in years past, we are not a serious franchise.

[YogurtProducer]

And the assumption that he can play 35mpg makes little sense to me. There are 25 players in the league who play 35mpg. Barnes led our team at 33mpg. So we’ve got a guy who hasn’t had the best health record and we’ve got a coach who isn’t running guys into the ground (like Nurse was). There just aren’t many guys playing 35mpg anymore.

In 2023-24 pre trade, we had Siakam and Barnes both playing 35mpg. Barrett and IQ both played 33mpg post trade. What we had last year when we were obviously tanking isn't really relevant to what we will do going forward.

My prediction on what IQ will give us is based on a variety of factors yet and I threw out what I “think” IQ will average and not what he “can” average (under absolutely ideal conditions like him playing 35mpg and being the clear #2 option).

I don’t really rank IQ much different than Yogurt. I just don’t think he’ll play the minutes or get the touches to make a big leap in his counting stats.

And I mean fair enough, but he certainly IS going to play 33+mpg at a minimum, and he likely will get the touches as well. Ingram coming in will soak up a bunch, but Barnes is all but a lock to see a decrease, as is Dick and likely RJ as well.

Like last year we had (per 36 just to even them out), RJ taking 18.9FGA, Scottie 17.9, and IQ 17.2. The "type" of possessions Ingram is going to soak up are the Barrett and Scottie ones. Ingram is not coming in and shooting a high volume of 3's. IQ's shots are not the type of shots we even have the abilit to replace with Ingram, it is RJ's and Barnes.

But FWIW - we have bench depth, but we don't really have bench scoring. I really wouldn't be surprised if at yearend our teams PPG goes like

Ingram - 22ppg
Quickley - 20ppg
Barrett - 20ppg
Barnes -16ppg
Jakob - 14ppg

and then our bench guys all being sub 10ppg cause no one off the bench is going to really play more than 14-18mpg anyways. AND, we don't have any obvious "bench gunners" outside MAYBE Dick. Most likely, we always have 2 of IQ/RJ/Scottie/Ingram on the floor being the #1/2 guys offensively.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

I have no issue with RJ and IQ as players. Where we went wrong is Masai’s wishful thinking contract he paid IQ. He paid him straight away, un-forced, to be the player he needed him to turn out to be, not what he had shown to deserve. It’s alot easier to get a guy to sign by overpaying him but in doing so we severely increased our exposure. It may be that the ideal role for IQ was what he was in NYK - 6th man scorer. I like the spirit he plays with and the above the break 3’s. I think he not durable and not a quick attacking guy, not a great defender and maybe a more natural SG than a PG.

With RJ - I mean look how much better Knicks got - you think they’re missing him? He’s not what we need, we’re what he needed, a team willing to overhype him and pretend like his hype coming into the league was warranted. And we been trying to trade and we still can’t. His contract was widely considered negative value. We laughed at that like it was a joke, he score we lost, we want to trade him and we can’t because it was true, that his contract had negative value. He’s another guy who should probably come off the bench, but I’m scared we end accommodating him to our own detriment.

I don’t really have much faith in Gradey or see the path for him to get minutes and development. Like, was the defensive focus thing just short term pr for summer league- because the defense is crap if teams can just target Gradey, so there goes 2nd unit - and with IQ, RJ, and BI in the line up the starting line up, it won’t be good defensively either.

CMB, JaKobe, Shead all need time to develop. But add Ochai and Mamu and we’re at 11 players in the rotation and to me, that’s too many to develop.

A lot of those guys are supposed to be the prize payoff after the pain of our rebuild, but we should shut up and just praise Masai for overpaying BI because it feels like the nice thing to do? We tanked for CMB, JaKobe, Gradey and were ready to compete now? Does that make any sense?

Like - I remember the I’m going for 9th memes - and whatever Colangelo offering I’ll double it’

Yet - we celebrate it now?

There’s a chance if this team show some special chemistry and character and has an all pieces fit synergy like the PPat Grevious squads.

We raised a banner off smart tough player, creative coaching, and a really good defense that played guys who could do what was asked. That was a enoug to stay relevant long enough to have a big swing make full
Contact and hit one out of the park - and we seem to be in suck a rush to forget about all that. I was pleased after Scottie’s first year - haven’t been impressed by his development since. The third year stuff - was gone in year 4. I think he needed tougher leadership and instead we bent over backwards to get any of that out of his way. Well Masai did. I hope Bobby takes a different tact.

It may be in our situation trading Scottie for a nice haul is the bast path forward with how poorly the tank went. They patience has been burned - and for a team that admits or claims or benefits from the idea they tried to lose- they sure did a really poor job.
we were being out coached to wins against garbage teams.

Philly pissed me off - but at least for their fans they really did put them in a position to compete and when that went to crap - they still out tanked us. Daryl had our cake and ate it too. We had one goal - all year, and ended picking 9th, And wondered if 15 mil (plus over 40 mil incentives) didn’t get a new contract because of racism. I hate Maga and that element of the US - but I don’t think all other non Toronto media is hate fest for the Raps- or really question why other pres candidates thought this team may need to keep rebuilding or start over.

Jays been a joy to watch lately.

[ConSarnit]

And the assumption that he can play 35mpg makes little sense to me. There are 25 players in the league who play 35mpg. Barnes led our team at 33mpg. So we’ve got a guy who hasn’t had the best health record and we’ve got a coach who isn’t running guys into the ground (like Nurse was). There just aren’t many guys playing 35mpg anymore.

In 2023-24 pre trade, we had Siakam and Barnes both playing 35mpg. Barrett and IQ both played 33mpg post trade. What we had last year when we were obviously tanking isn't really relevant to what we will do going forward.

My prediction on what IQ will give us is based on a variety of factors yet and I threw out what I “think” IQ will average and not what he “can” average (under absolutely ideal conditions like him playing 35mpg and being the clear #2 option).

I don’t really rank IQ much different than Yogurt. I just don’t think he’ll play the minutes or get the touches to make a big leap in his counting stats.

And I mean fair enough, but he certainly IS going to play 33+mpg at a minimum, and he likely will get the touches as well. Ingram coming in will soak up a bunch, but Barnes is all but a lock to see a decrease, as is Dick and likely RJ as well.

Like last year we had (per 36 just to even them out), RJ taking 18.9FGA, Scottie 17.9, and IQ 17.2. The "type" of possessions Ingram is going to soak up are the Barrett and Scottie ones. Ingram is not coming in and shooting a high volume of 3's. IQ's shots are not the type of shots we even have the abilit to replace with Ingram, it is RJ's and Barnes.

But FWIW - we have bench depth, but we don't really have bench scoring. I really wouldn't be surprised if at yearend our teams PPG goes like

Ingram - 22ppg
Quickley - 20ppg
Barrett - 20ppg
Barnes -16ppg
Jakob - 14ppg

and then our bench guys all being sub 10ppg cause no one off the bench is going to really play more than 14-18mpg anyways. AND, we don't have any obvious "bench gunners" outside MAYBE Dick. Most likely, we always have 2 of IQ/RJ/Scottie/Ingram on the floor being the #1/2 guys offensively.

Wait? You don’t think any of our bench guys are going to play more than 18mpg?

Without fail, year in and year out we have had at least 2 players come off the bench and play 18mpg+, and that’s only counting games where they came off the bench.

I just do not agree with your minutes distribution assessment here. Even OKC, an incredibly deep team, had 4 bench players playing more than 20mpg last season.

[Godaddycurse]

Minutes:

Poeltl 30 mamu 14 CMB 4
Barnes 32 CMB 16
Ingram 30 Dick 18
RJ 30 Agbaji 18
IQ 32 Shead 16

Mogbo and Walter 3rd string/in G league to start season until injuries/rest day hits our starters