Knicks-Nuggets Post Game (Free Candy Strikes)

[blueNorange]

knicks, why don't you show me 6'10" players that can do what gallinari does

kevin durant, lamar odom, ... that's all i'm thinking of right now

is he on par with their athleticism? no but he's athletic just like them.

[TKF]

Well I think we've beaten this dead horse again lol. I'm going to let the dead horse sleep some now so we can continue to beat him again soon.

Bottom line though: TKF is validated in his love of Gallo -- let's face it, he embarrassed us last night. But one game does not a career make. Melo and Pierce are HOFers most likely ... Gallo is a guy playing for his next contract and a guy who is pretty clearly worse than guys drafted after him (Gordon and Lopez specifically).

So let's not go too far with this.

TKF is right for a day but you know what -- I believe I'm more right in the long run: Our problems are 80% coaching. The pre-Melo team with Gallo and Mozgov was pretty bad and was bad in just the same way that our current team is bad: Because Mike McD'Antoni is a completely horrible, idiotic coach. If we had a good coach, we'd look a lot better ... Gallo or no Gallo, Melo or no Melo.

It's the coaching fellas. The end.

one thing KG, you can downplay all of this and throw jabs about gallo love.. but this is about a way of running a team.. gallo is just a pawn.... in the end, this is my feelings about my team, although you and many others have made this all about gallo... this could be any young talented group of players. it is about a way of doing business.. a way in which the knicks have failed and sucked at for years.. yesterday it was gallo, tomorrow it will be someone else.... but you can keep on with the gallo jabs, and gallo love.. for some reason you thinks it validates your arugument and mitiages mine.. but get this right, I have been right for more than one day, and more right than most on this forum..... Bank on that.. and right now this team stinks, as projected, I hate to be right about that... but it is what it is....

The sad thing is that you seem to be more concerned with tearing down gallo than just owning up to the fact that the knicks are so poorly run that moves like this will continue to happen, and how can you put any faith in an organization like that... just own up to it.. I have.. you are making this about gallo.. not the rest of us...

[blueNorange]

gallinari is better than lopez and gordon

if the 2008 draft is re-done, gallinari is a top 5 lock

you were a gallinari homer then became a gallinari hater the moment he got traded

Oh and your opinion about him being better than Lopez and Gordon ... well, what can I say. It's your opinion. I think it's one that very few GM's would agree with.

why bother having a discussion when you're being delusional and bias?

[K_ick_God]

false rumor.. I heard baron say it out of his own mouth! when asked about his time table, he said it is day by day, he said before he got here he was not sure he would ever be able to play again.... He said it!

All right well I didn't see it but I'll take your word for it. He just indicated that he will be back soon and thinks he can pick up the offense quickly. So whatever he said, it doesn't appear to be the current info.

Now tell BNO that I was questioning Gallo long before the Melo trade I specifically remember you telling me that he was better than Lopez in his second year when I was starting to lose faith.

[Red Vines]

We can't make final judgement on the trade until the season is over. Why are people so fickle and impatient? Our team is not a finished product... have some patience before declaring the trade a failure and deeming this team worse than the other.

Agreed. I said back at the beginning of the 2009 season that I thought D'Antoni was a really bad coach for us, it was unpopular, most people disagreed, fine. I let it play out, hoping I was wrong. I didn't go out of my way to trash him every day which doesn't accomplish anything except bring attention to myself, eventually it just became obvious. People are right about things all the time but there's no reason to suck all the oxygen out of the forum to boost your own self-esteem. Criticizing Melo is one thing, repeatedly harping on a trade that you can't undo is another. We know what people like TKF thought of the trade, so why do we have to be treated like idiots and subject to reading it day after day like we don't understand?

[K_ick_God]

gallinari is better than lopez and gordon

if the 2008 draft is re-done, gallinari is a top 5 lock

you were a gallinari homer then became a gallinari hater the moment he got traded

Oh and your opinion about him being better than Lopez and Gordon ... well, what can I say. It's your opinion. I think it's one that very few GM's would agree with.

why bother having a discussion when you're being delusional and bias?

lol OK. Clearly cannot or will not defend your position. Which is suspicious.

[blueNorange]

still waiting for the answer about besides odom and durant, what 6'10" player can do what gallinari does.

[Starksmadness]

im sorry. Melo and Hall of Fame should not be used in the same sentence.

[Clyde_Style]

We get it. You really are not a Gallo fan, but why do you say things like he is not an athlete? Sure he is. He is not Dominique Wilkins, but he gets around the court pretty well for a 6'10" guy. Wait a second, he's an NBA player and NBA players are athletes so I think that makes him .........hmmmm. an athlete!

I think I might just might be using the term "athlete" figuratively rather than literally, yes? He is an NBA athlete with sub-par athleticism. Gallo gets around the court worse than Mozgov who is quite a bit bigger and plays a true big man's game. That said, I've never said Gallo doesn't have some guard-like perimeter skills, I've said a few times he's a good dribbler with a very good power dribble, and that he's a patient/smart player. Obviously a 6-11 guy who can play like a guard is valuable. And if he continues to go to the line at such a high rate, he's a major offensive weapon.

But none of this makes him a good athlete as in - running, jumping, quickness, lift, explosion. He is not a good NBA athlete, period. People need to start looking at specific arguments and looking at discrete things that people say. To say Gallo is not a great athlete is not to say he's worthless or bad.

The only thing I said that some may view as unfair to Gallo is that I'm questioning if his ability to go to the line will/should continue because I don't think Gallo is able to finish these plays ... he's really shown no ability to. I said I think he's putting the cart before the horse which is rare -- he's not established himself as a great scorer but is still getting to the line like one. That is unusual. Maybe Gallo fans view this as unfair/harsh or me just hating on him, and I can see one thinking that, but it's a legitimate issue to raise: I've never seen a guy go to the line like this who has yet to establish himself as the top scorer on his team, let alone one of the better scorers in the league.

More power to him if it continues -- he'll be a really big option if he can rack up points at the line where he shoots a high % -- but I'm not going to censor myself either: Gallo's ability to draw fouls is a curious area that is worth discussing. THAT part of his game is, admittedly, like Paul Pierce (who is an offensive flopper). But Paul Pierce has accomplished about 100x what Gallo has accomplished in his career -- so with Pierce, while I don't like the flopping, I can understand him getting the calls.

Holy cow, you're on a roll this morning KG. Dare I say you're maybe obsessing a bit much about Gallo? I mean how many ways can you split a hair when talking about things like how elegant he is or how he is getting to the line? In the end, results are what matters, not how you get there. If the NBA rewards flopping, then flop away. I don't make the rules, but smart players exploit the loopholes and the more power to them for it.

We all have our preferences. I'm already bored with Melo. I really don't enjoy his kind of playing, because I feel it mostly just an instinctive game and his talent is not harnessed by his brain. I grew up with Frazier and Bradley. I like guys who just get it and execute. Melo to me is about halfway between a cantaloupe and a bag of rocks on the brain-o-meter and circus shots don't really get me off. So I do prefer Gallo. He appeals to me more, but that doesn't mean I'd argue his merits only because of his style of play. Melo is not garbage, but he's not great, so I think he falls below the exalted levels some have put him at. But it is OK not to be great. Not many are.

[K_ick_God]

Well I think we've beaten this dead horse again lol. I'm going to let the dead horse sleep some now so we can continue to beat him again soon.

Bottom line though: TKF is validated in his love of Gallo -- let's face it, he embarrassed us last night. But one game does not a career make. Melo and Pierce are HOFers most likely ... Gallo is a guy playing for his next contract and a guy who is pretty clearly worse than guys drafted after him (Gordon and Lopez specifically).

So let's not go too far with this.

TKF is right for a day but you know what -- I believe I'm more right in the long run: Our problems are 80% coaching. The pre-Melo team with Gallo and Mozgov was pretty bad and was bad in just the same way that our current team is bad: Because Mike McD'Antoni is a completely horrible, idiotic coach. If we had a good coach, we'd look a lot better ... Gallo or no Gallo, Melo or no Melo.

It's the coaching fellas. The end.

one thing KG, you can downplay all of this and throw jabs about gallo love.. but this is about a way of running a team.. gallo is just a pawn.... in the end, this is my feelings about my team, although you and many others have made this all about gallo... this could be any young talented group of players. it is about a way of doing business.. a way in which the knicks have failed and sucked at for years.. yesterday it was gallo, tomorrow it will be someone else.... but you can keep on with the gallo jabs, and gallo love.. for some reason you thinks it validates your arugument and mitiages mine.. but get this right, I have been right for more than one day, and more right than most on this forum..... Bank on that.. and right now this team stinks, as projected, I hate to be right about that... but it is what it is....

The sad thing is that you seem to be more concerned with tearing down gallo than just owning up to the fact that the knicks are so poorly run that moves like this will continue to happen, and how can you put any faith in an organization like that... just own up to it.. I have.. you are making this about gallo.. not the rest of us...

As a philosophical matter, I will not argue with you. Our organization may be toxic.

I was arguing with the idea that Gallo is on a par with Melo as a talent or in career achievements.

We don't have to make this about Gallo but I can respond to specific things about his game. I'm sympathetic to your claim that the organization is dysfunctional.

But, I want to see a vet PG and coaching change before I believe this roster is bad and unable to win a lot of games.

For the record though, I said long before the Melo trade was done that I was concerned that Melo and Amar'e wouldn't complement each other. I said so MANY times.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Still wouldn't take Lopez over Gallo. Call me when Lopez can defend his man or becomes a special offensive player. He's a good shotblocker and a competent scorer. I don't think he's got any inkling of dominance in his game.

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[blueNorange]

lol, gottem

[K_ick_God]

im sorry. Melo and Hall of Fame should not be used in the same sentence.

Paul Pierce is going and Melo, while not having won a title yet (or ever), is a significantly more prolific scorer over his career than Pierce.

I'm not saying *I* think Melo is better than Pierce -- I see the flaws in Melo's game. But I think it will be hard to keep Melo out of the HOF if he has 3-5 more years like his first several if you put Paul in the HOF (which is a lock). Contemporary SF's but Melo's numbers are bigger than Paul's -- check out their career numbers.

[Clyde_Style]

But that can be fixed. Baron can create his own shot, we'll get role players who can score. Basically management overrated our role players this year. We just started constructing the team, it will come together.

forget baron!!! the guy just said in an interview that he wasn't sure he would every be able to play again.. until baron hits the floor and makes a difference, he is nothing at this point.. we can't count on that.... even then, see how desperate this situation has become.. the sad thing some of us saw this happenning last year!!

Are you sure he said that or did he mean he didn't know if he would play again as in be picked up by another NBA team? He may have thought his career was ending because no one wanted him, not only because of his injury. Just checking, because that is very different.

[K_ick_God]

still waiting for the answer about besides odom and durant, what 6'10" player can do what gallinari does.

He has rare skills. When did I ever say he doesn't? I'm talking about his athleticism. You are conflating two things.

[dk7th]

calling gallinari not an athlete is pretty dumb, there's not many 6'10" wing players that can do what he does.

So being a good dribbler makes you a good athlete?

Thanks for calling me dumb but I think it's dumb & dumber not to be SPECIFIC in where I'm wrong.

Which one of these things does Gallo have that is above average:

First step/quickness
Explosion
Standing jump
Running jump

Tell me which one you think he's better than average at.

If not, tell me what "athletic" ability Gallo has that makes him a good outside dribbler and that gives him guard abilities.

Was Larry Bird an above-average athlete in your opinion? What about Chris Mullen?

Be specific BNO. I'm all ears.

he has a quick enough first step such that his defenders have to reach in and foul him or he goes by them to the hoop. and it helps that he is 6'10", all arms and legs, and can put the ball on the floor for a few dribbles. he uses his body excellently in spite of the fact that he is not a fast runner or a high jumper.

anyone who can use his body to an advantage in a sport is an athlete. any athlete who can continue to find success repeatedly in this fashion is an above-average athlete. gallinari is not an elite athlete but he is a nightmare to guard and since basketball is a game of skill and mind i would say you need to remove the hater glasses you've been wearing.

[K_ick_God]

Still wouldn't take Lopez over Gallo. Call me when Lopez can defend his man or becomes a special offensive player. He's a good shotblocker and a competent scorer. I don't think he's got any inkling of dominance in his game.

viewtopic.php?f=24&p=24617558

Minor gotcha. I was trying to be hopeful or irritate Nets fans or deluded by the Summer of LeBron? I think you'd be hard pressed to find a GM who wouldn't say Lopez and Gordon are both more valuable than Gallo.

And notice I said little about Gallo. I do think Lopez is flawed too.

[DRoberstonNYY]

Still wouldn't take Lopez over Gallo. Call me when Lopez can defend his man or becomes a special offensive player. He's a good shotblocker and a competent scorer. I don't think he's got any inkling of dominance in his game.

viewtopic.php?f=24&p=24617558

now that's just an epic ownage right there.

[K_ick_God]

calling gallinari not an athlete is pretty dumb, there's not many 6'10" wing players that can do what he does.

So being a good dribbler makes you a good athlete?

Thanks for calling me dumb but I think it's dumb & dumber not to be SPECIFIC in where I'm wrong.

Which one of these things does Gallo have that is above average:

First step/quickness
Explosion
Standing jump
Running jump

Tell me which one you think he's better than average at.

If not, tell me what "athletic" ability Gallo has that makes him a good outside dribbler and that gives him guard abilities.

Was Larry Bird an above-average athlete in your opinion? What about Chris Mullen?

Be specific BNO. I'm all ears.

he has a quick enough first step such that his defenders have to reach in and foul him or he goes by them to the hoop. and it helps that he is 6'10", all arms and legs, and can put the ball on the floor for a few dribbles. he uses his body excellently in spite of the fact that he is not a fast runner or a high jumper.

anyone who can use his body to an advantage in a sport is an athlete. any athlete who can continue to find success repeatedly in this fashion is an above-average athlete. gallinari is not an elite athlete but he is a nightmare to guard and since basketball is a game of skill and mind i would say you need to remove the hater glasses you've been wearing.

He's rarely fouled on his first step. He's fouled after a few power dribbles.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Still wouldn't take Lopez over Gallo. Call me when Lopez can defend his man or becomes a special offensive player. He's a good shotblocker and a competent scorer. I don't think he's got any inkling of dominance in his game.

viewtopic.php?f=24&p=24617558

Minor gotcha. I was trying to be hopeful? I think you'd be hard pressed to find a GM who wouldn't say Lopez and Gordon are both more valuable than Gallo.

Sorry, KG...I just remember you saying that.

I'd take Gordon over Gallo, but not Brook.