The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread

[guvernator]

On Cole, he might be a decent bet as far as such things go: isn't terribly old for an FA, doesn't have a tonne of mileage on his arm, velocity has actually increased. But all of those things combine to make him likely to get Paid, and to lure him to a rebuilding team would likely require us to top any offers by a fair bit. There's a price at which it's reasonable, and a price at which you get the sneaking suspicion that you'll deeply regret half the contract, and the odds are pretty good that he'll fall toward the latter.

For some reason I see him making a Scherzer like leap and somewhat staying there for a while. If the kids show some progress over the next 2 months, I think it will be totally worth signing an ace to speed up the rebuild.

[gei]

The biggest difference is that BC made a bunch of stupid, short-term moves that compromised our future, and the current Jays leadership has done the opposite. They erred by not rebuilding earlier, but we have a pretty bright future.

This mentality blows my mind. AA's short-term moves gave us literally the only 2-3 exciting years of Blue Jays baseball in the last TWENTY+ YEARS. Literally the only excitement that many young jays fans have seen in their ENTIRE LIVES. It's absolutely the only reason anyone even pays any attention to the Jays now.

Prior to those AA years virtually know one I knew watched or cared about baseball. For those few years that's all anyone in the city talked about. Jays gear is still worn everywhere around town because of those short-term moves.

We don't have a bright future. We have a bunch of prospects that *may* amount to something, but will likely not. ie we likely have another 20 years of not making the playoffs. Those AA years may prove to be the best memories that many Jays fans will ever have.

[Schad]

AA's long-term moves are what made his short-term moves possible. If not for the prospects we accumulated during his rebuilding phase, there's no way that he'd have been able to make the trades that he did. Or, as ended up happening, to make a series of really awful trades, and then have enough talent to make a series of better trades that got us to the playoffs.

That was the problem with Colangelo: he was constantly trying what amounted to get-rich-quick schemes without ever having the asset base to make it viable.

[bballsparkin]

The biggest difference is that BC made a bunch of stupid, short-term moves that compromised our future, and the current Jays leadership has done the opposite. They erred by not rebuilding earlier, but we have a pretty bright future.

BC was always trying to save his job/reputation. These guys are potentially nuking theirs. Maybe both bad at trades though. I'll give Shatkins the benefit of doubt for now simply because I like that they are rebuilding the depth of the prospect pool. They need to work on interpersonal skills though.

[bballsparkin]

This mentality blows my mind. AA's short-term moves gave us literally the only 2-3 exciting years of Blue Jays baseball in the last TWENTY+ YEARS. Literally the only excitement that many young jays fans have seen in their ENTIRE LIVES. It's absolutely the only reason anyone even pays any attention to the Jays now.

Prior to those AA years virtually know one I knew watched or cared about baseball. For those few years that's all anyone in the city talked about. Jays gear is still worn everywhere around town because of those short-term moves.

We don't have a bright future. We have a bunch of prospects that *may* amount to something, but will likely not. ie we likely have another 20 years of not making the playoffs. Those AA years may prove to be the best memories that many Jays fans will ever have.

I support AA going for it. Bautista deserved the shot. Plus EE and crew. That Rangers series was electric. It didn't work out though and a rebuild was necessary to recover without Rogers outspending the Dodgers so...

[WuTang_CMB]

This mentality blows my mind. AA's short-term moves gave us literally the only 2-3 exciting years of Blue Jays baseball in the last TWENTY+ YEARS. Literally the only excitement that many young jays fans have seen in their ENTIRE LIVES. It's absolutely the only reason anyone even pays any attention to the Jays now.

Prior to those AA years virtually know one I knew watched or cared about baseball. For those few years that's all anyone in the city talked about. Jays gear is still worn everywhere around town because of those short-term moves.

We don't have a bright future. We have a bunch of prospects that *may* amount to something, but will likely not. ie we likely have another 20 years of not making the playoffs. Those AA years may prove to be the best memories that many Jays fans will ever have.

I support AA going for it. Bautista deserved the shot. Plus EE and crew. That Rangers series was electric. It didn't work out though and a rebuild was necessary to recover without Rogers outspending the Dodgers so...

which one?

Love that Bannister got it in the teeth both times.

[Wo1verine]

[code][/code]

Even at somewhat depressed prices, $70m gets you perhaps 5 players of some quality (but not top quality). If you do well, it might get you 10 wins. That's not getting us to Wild Card contention.

Goldy isn't too good to bounce back. Big dudes are aging really badly in this batspeed-driven league. Even if he does bounce back, for how long? How much of a bet would one be willing to make on his age 33 and 34 seasons? The league is littered with players who, at age 30, were too talented not to remain good deep into their 30s, most of whom are boat anchors now.

On Cole, he might be a decent bet as far as such things go: isn't terribly old for an FA, doesn't have a tonne of mileage on his arm, velocity has actually increased. But all of those things combine to make him likely to get Paid, and to lure him to a rebuilding team would likely require us to top any offers by a fair bit. There's a price at which it's reasonable, and a price at which you get the sneaking suspicion that you'll deeply regret half the contract, and the odds are pretty good that he'll fall toward the latter.

We got rid of Stroman because he didn't fit the' cores time line' - How does an older Cole?

[wamco]

Remember when we were gonna use our financial resources to take on bad contracts to get prospects attached?

[Schad]

We got rid of Stroman because he didn't fit the' cores time line' - How does an older Cole?

He doesn't, really. With Cole, you'd be taking the gamble because he's genuinely elite, whereas Stroman's merely good. But being elite also means that he's likely to get an enormous pile of money, so it's probably only advisable in an edge case where no one wants to pay him full market value for whatever reason.

[guvernator]

[code][/code]

Even at somewhat depressed prices, $70m gets you perhaps 5 players of some quality (but not top quality). If you do well, it might get you 10 wins. That's not getting us to Wild Card contention.

Goldy isn't too good to bounce back. Big dudes are aging really badly in this batspeed-driven league. Even if he does bounce back, for how long? How much of a bet would one be willing to make on his age 33 and 34 seasons? The league is littered with players who, at age 30, were too talented not to remain good deep into their 30s, most of whom are boat anchors now.

On Cole, he might be a decent bet as far as such things go: isn't terribly old for an FA, doesn't have a tonne of mileage on his arm, velocity has actually increased. But all of those things combine to make him likely to get Paid, and to lure him to a rebuilding team would likely require us to top any offers by a fair bit. There's a price at which it's reasonable, and a price at which you get the sneaking suspicion that you'll deeply regret half the contract, and the odds are pretty good that he'll fall toward the latter.

We got rid of Stroman because he didn't fit the' cores time line' - How does an older Cole?

With Stroman, there is also a matter of the front office genuinely not liking him (and vice versa). Because of his tenure, Stroman would naturally assume the leadership role, and Shatkins just couldn't stomach the idea of a headcase being the "face of a franchise".

[Tanner]

The biggest difference is that BC made a bunch of stupid, short-term moves that compromised our future, and the current Jays leadership has done the opposite. They erred by not rebuilding earlier, but we have a pretty bright future.

BC was always trying to save his job/reputation. These guys are potentially nuking theirs. Maybe both bad at trades though. I'll give Shatkins the benefit of doubt for now simply because I like that they are rebuilding the depth of the prospect pool. They need to work on interpersonal skills though.

Shapiro and Atkins are not acting like people who are afraid of job security. They are acting like people who plan to be around for a while, and both only have a year remaining on their contracts. It is quite possible they have gotten some type of assurance from Rogers that they will stick around, and if Rogers is trying to compensate for a bad hockey deal by cutting payroll and trying to win small market style, then Shapiro is the guy they want to keep around. I don't see it ending unless Shapiro himself decides to want out.

[Schad]

Shapiro and Atkins are not acting like people who are afraid of job security. They are acting like people who plan to be around for a while, and both only have a year remaining on their contracts. It is quite possible they have gotten some type of assurance from Rogers that they will stick around, and if Rogers is trying to compensate for a bad hockey deal by cutting payroll and trying to win small market style, then Shapiro is the guy they want to keep around. I don't see it ending unless Shapiro himself decides to want out.

This seems like a pretty good bet. We could've aimed to exit his window with shiny new major leaguers to show off, but the biggest acquisition was an 18 year old who'd last pitched in low-A. I'm not convinced by their moves in this window, but they definitely didn't go the safe route.

[SonOfRoy]

Listen to how Shapiro and Atkins talk. They are incompetent snakes. When I heard the Shapiro news in 2015 I was devastated and so afraid it meant the end of this exciting team.

If you sit down and listen to 30 min to 1hr of these 2 talking and you still want these clowns in charge of the Jays you are an embarrassment.

Can you aim any lower than Shatkins? Rob Babcock and David Kahn come to mind.

[gei]

We've literally had TWO years of exciting baseball in the last TWENTY SIX years. In 26 years we've made the playoffs TWICE.

And we are now likely another 10 years away from making the playoffs again.

It's actually shocking that people keep going to games.

[I_Like_Dirt]

We got rid of Stroman because he didn't fit the' cores time line' - How does an older Cole?

He doesn't, really. With Cole, you'd be taking the gamble because he's genuinely elite, whereas Stroman's merely good. But being elite also means that he's likely to get an enormous pile of money, so it's probably only advisable in an edge case where no one wants to pay him full market value for whatever reason.

More than that, Cole would jusr cost money. Stroman got them some pretty good pitching prospects. That's what confuses me about the hatred of the Stroman trade the most: they actually got something good for him and can sign back him in after next season if they really wanted to or can sign a player they like more if they want. Everyone is always a brilliant GM who knows the perfect deal but tradint Stroman was the only logical choice and the return was actually pretty good.

[Schad]

We have the best collection of major league/near major league young talent that we've had in more than two decades. We're not that far from competing; it'll likely take a couple years, but we have an opportunity to put together the best period of sustained competitiveness since '85-'93, so long as we don't try to rush things.

[ratul]

It’s true we have talent but I don’t trust Shapiro with it. See trading Sanchez for a bag of bones and then Sanchez throwing a no hitter as example A. If we made no deadline moves, you could argue this team has a shot at contention given the play of bichette and vladdy. However that’s extremely early to assume especially when we are beating up on the two worst teams in the league.

[Schad]

Sanchez threw six good innings. That's perhaps not enough to declare him to have ceased to be the awful starter that he'd been for three years.

[ratul]

Sanchez threw six good innings. That's perhaps not enough to declare him to have ceased to be the awful starter that he'd been for three years.

Lol, he threw a no hitter! Fire Shitkins!

[ratul]

The paid bot game is strong with this one