Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15

[Skybox]

Are you really discussing if a player can improve after their rookie season?

Yes, they are really into it, no joke.
Some kind of fun...hmm...must be, I guess

With ancient examples, from before “one and done” & AAU destroyed college hoops and produced less ready players each successive year. Now, rookie contract years are basically developmental crapshoot for most.

[God Squad]

I'm actually surprised some of you are iffy on him. IMO he's looked like the best PG of the bunch especially better than Killian so far. He's doing better than I thought because I was low on cole towards the end of the year. So I wanted to give him his credit. I was telling one of your posters in the draft thread that I can foresee Cole being better than Fultz and potentially start. He told me Fultz is soooo good now and much better. Very early preseason so basically it means nothing. But I saw some encouraging stuff from Cole.

[ARandomStranger]

The goal is the Fultz/Anthony backcourt as they both compliment each other really well.

[The Effect]

I'm actually surprised some of you are iffy on him. IMO he's looked like the best PG of the bunch especially better than Killian so far. He's doing better than I thought because I was low on cole towards the end of the year. So I wanted to give him his credit. I was telling one of your posters in the draft thread that I can foresee Cole being better than Fultz and potentially start. He told me Fultz is soooo good now and much better. Very early preseason so basically it means nothing. But I saw some encouraging stuff from Cole.

No way man, he wasnt CP3 in his first preseason games (a month after he was drafted, short camp, no summer league), so clearly hes a sorry ass waste of a pick that will be out of the NBA in 3 years!!
Oh and did you know hes only 6'1.5?? what a waste of a pick!!

[pepe1991]

I'm actually surprised some of you are iffy on him. IMO he's looked like the best PG of the bunch especially better than Killian so far. He's doing better than I thought because I was low on cole towards the end of the year. So I wanted to give him his credit. I was telling one of your posters in the draft thread that I can foresee Cole being better than Fultz and potentially start. He told me Fultz is soooo good now and much better. Very early preseason so basically it means nothing. But I saw some encouraging stuff from Cole.

Whoever told you Fultz is "sooo good " probably at one point thought Elfrid Payton is new Magic Johnson.

[BlueBlazer]

I'm actually surprised some of you are iffy on him. IMO he's looked like the best PG of the bunch especially better than Killian so far. He's doing better than I thought because I was low on cole towards the end of the year. So I wanted to give him his credit. I was telling one of your posters in the draft thread that I can foresee Cole being better than Fultz and potentially start. He told me Fultz is soooo good now and much better. Very early preseason so basically it means nothing. But I saw some encouraging stuff from Cole.

No way man, he wasnt CP3 in his first preseason games (a month after he was drafted, short camp, no summer league), so clearly hes a sorry ass waste of a pick that will be out of the NBA in 3 years!!
Oh and did you know hes only 6'1.5?? what a waste of a pick!!

Don’t forget arms like a t-rex, too

[MagicFan101]

I'm actually surprised some of you are iffy on him. IMO he's looked like the best PG of the bunch especially better than Killian so far. He's doing better than I thought because I was low on cole towards the end of the year. So I wanted to give him his credit. I was telling one of your posters in the draft thread that I can foresee Cole being better than Fultz and potentially start. He told me Fultz is soooo good now and much better. Very early preseason so basically it means nothing. But I saw some encouraging stuff from Cole.

In a perfect world we would see Fultz and Cole start alongside each other.

I don’t know if I see any scenario where Cole replaces Fultz. That isn’t because Fultz is “soooo good” as he still has a lot to prove and still needs to fully win that long term role (hence only a 3 year deal with a team option). So if anyone replaces Fult it is someone not yet on this roster.

I see Cole in a slightly different role than the primary lead PG. Like Fultz, Cole has some gaps in his game. Even the best version of what I see Cole becoming isn’t a lead facilitator.

Fultz and Cole compliment each other well. If they can push each other to be the best versions of themselves then we have a great combo. I hope that ends up being the case.

[Knightro]

I'm actually surprised some of you are iffy on him. IMO he's looked like the best PG of the bunch especially better than Killian so far. He's doing better than I thought because I was low on cole towards the end of the year. So I wanted to give him his credit. I was telling one of your posters in the draft thread that I can foresee Cole being better than Fultz and potentially start. He told me Fultz is soooo good now and much better. Very early preseason so basically it means nothing. But I saw some encouraging stuff from Cole.

Anthony looked good as a scorer. He shot the ball well. He finished ok. Showed scoring ability from all levels; threes, midrange, floaters, at the rim, free throws, etc.

He's just not really a point guard though.

He's a bucket getter who can make some basic reads and passes.

[RookieStar]

I'm actually surprised some of you are iffy on him. IMO he's looked like the best PG of the bunch especially better than Killian so far. He's doing better than I thought because I was low on cole towards the end of the year. So I wanted to give him his credit. I was telling one of your posters in the draft thread that I can foresee Cole being better than Fultz and potentially start. He told me Fultz is soooo good now and much better. Very early preseason so basically it means nothing. But I saw some encouraging stuff from Cole.

Anthony looked good as a scorer. He shot the ball well. He finished ok. Showed scoring ability from all levels; threes, midrange, floaters, at the rim, free throws, etc.

He's just not really a point guard though.

He's a bucket getter who can make some basic reads and passes.

But isn't that what a PG is nowadays? Or at least what teams are actively looking for ala Dame, Wall, Trae and even Curry?

I mean sure you have great PGs like Fox and Murray and freaks like Ben and Luka.. but i feel PGs nowadays are more chucker like lol

[Knightro]

But isn't that what a PG is nowadays? Or at least what teams are actively looking for ala Dame, Wall, Trae and even Curry?

I mean sure you have great PGs like Fox and Murray and freaks like Ben and Luka.. but i feel PGs nowadays are more chucker like lol

It's a little more nuanced.

Yes, guys like Lillard, Young and Curry score a lot of points, but all of them (plus every other guy you mentioned) have a clear level of comfortability of running an NBA offense in the halfcourt. Those guys shoot/score a lot because they're great shooters/scorers, not because they can't or are unwilling to pass if that makes sense?

We just haven't seen much natural point guard ability from Anthony. Not at North Carolina and not in four preseason games. His natural inclination is to shoot/try and score dating all the way back to his high school/EYBL/All-Star circuit days. He's just doesn't look like a particularly comfortable or skilled passer.

That said...

He was a very efficient shooter/scorer in the preseason. Here's how he compares to some of the other guards drafted before and after him.

Edwards: .409 TS% on 38 FGA, 8 FTA
Ball: .373 TS% on 42 FGA, 8 FTA
Hayes: .402 TS% on 35 FGA, 8 FTA
Haliburton: .536 TS% on 22 FGA, 3 FTA
Lewis Jr: Played just 10 total minutes
Anthony: .598 TS% on 42 FGA, 9 FTA
Hampton: .379 TS% on 11 FGA, 2 FTA

Small sample size, but quite good!

If Anthony can have a .598 TS% like he did in the preseason (which is obviously unreasonable to expect for a rookie, but eventually), then it won't be a big deal if his PG skills are lacking because he'll be viable enough as an efficient shooter/scorer to play a lot and potentially even start with the right backcourt partner.

[RookieStar]

But isn't that what a PG is nowadays? Or at least what teams are actively looking for ala Dame, Wall, Trae and even Curry?

I mean sure you have great PGs like Fox and Murray and freaks like Ben and Luka.. but i feel PGs nowadays are more chucker like lol

It's a little more nuanced.

Yes, guys like Lillard, Young and Curry score a lot of points, but all of them (plus every other guy you mentioned) have a clear level of comfortability of running an NBA offense in the halfcourt. Those guys shoot/score a lot because they're great shooters/scorers, not because they can't or are unwilling to pass if that makes sense?

We just haven't seen much natural point guard ability from Anthony. Not at North Carolina and not in four preseason games. His natural inclination is to shoot/try and score dating all the way back to his high school/EYBL/All-Star circuit days. He's just doesn't look like a particularly comfortable or skilled passer.

That said...

He was a very efficient shooter/scorer in the preseason. Here's how he compares to some of the other guards drafted before and after him.

Edwards: .409 TS% on 38 FGA, 8 FTA
Ball: .373 TS% on 42 FGA, 8 FTA
Hayes: .402 TS% on 35 FGA, 8 FTA
Haliburton: .536 TS% on 22 FGA, 3 FTA
Lewis Jr: Played just 10 total minutes
Anthony: .598 TS% on 42 FGA, 9 FTA
Hampton: .379 TS% on 11 FGA, 2 FTA

Small sample size, but quite good!

If Anthony can have a .598 TS% like he did in the preseason (which is obviously unreasonable to expect for a rookie, but eventually), then it won't be a big deal if his PG skills are lacking because he'll be viable enough as an efficient shooter/scorer to play a lot and potentially even start with the right backcourt partner.

Oh I agree with that he hasnt shown he is a skilled passer. But i was always wondering if that was due to a crappy UNC team and being unable to trust his team or if he really is a certified chucker. As to the 1st 4 preseason games... i dunno.. i will agree with you with that as well 5-10games in when he waves off Vuc Ross AG and Evan to get his lol

[God Squad]

I'm actually surprised some of you are iffy on him. IMO he's looked like the best PG of the bunch especially better than Killian so far. He's doing better than I thought because I was low on cole towards the end of the year. So I wanted to give him his credit. I was telling one of your posters in the draft thread that I can foresee Cole being better than Fultz and potentially start. He told me Fultz is soooo good now and much better. Very early preseason so basically it means nothing. But I saw some encouraging stuff from Cole.

Anthony looked good as a scorer. He shot the ball well. He finished ok. Showed scoring ability from all levels; threes, midrange, floaters, at the rim, free throws, etc.

He's just not really a point guard though.

He's a bucket getter who can make some basic reads and passes.

6th man? Don't place a ceiling on him yet. Many raptors fans thought the same thing about FVV. All I'm saying is Cole is clearly passing the eye test and looks like an NBA player pretty early on. I have no clue what to expect from him growth-wise, But for now, I see a potent combo of Cole/Ross of the bench.

[zaymon]

You guys know who is the other scorer with average playmaking ? :p

[basketballRob]

Hopefully Cole can stay healthy for a few years. I remember people calling Jameer a shooting guard in a PG body. Had Jameer not had the shoulder and meniscus injuries, I think he would've made several allstar teams. He was a near 50/40/90 guy.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

Hopefully Cole can stay healthy for a few years. I remember people calling Jameer a shooting guard in a PG body. Had Jameer not had the shoulder and meniscus injuries, I think he would've made several allstar teams. He was a near 50/40/90 guy.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

For majority of his career, Nelson career was around 12 points and 6 assists.

Those allstar games were awkward as hell. There made Nelson allstar as some sort of "honor" to Orlando and team sucess. But since Dwight and Rashard were actually already allstars , they gave it to Nelson instad of Hedo because of... reasons? I don't know, Hedo was actually better player.

Than Nelson couldn't play, so they replaced him with at times almost 35 years old Ray Allen because Celtics were good, and didn't call Igoudala who was probably at times baas man to man defender and one of 4 players who averaged at least 18-5-5 . Lebron, Kobe , Wade and him i belive.

And in same year f*** Mo Williams and Devin Harris were allstars, but Vince Carter ( 21 ppg, 5 rpg, 4,6 apg) wasn't?
Just imagine sitting in room with bunch of coaches that vote for bench allstars and come to conversation and decision of at least 16 morons : " Devin Harris or Vince Carter, yea i'm 100% going with Devin , Devin is stud, Devin is future "

[VFX]

The goal is the Fultz/Anthony backcourt as they both compliment each other really well.

Is our goal to have one of the worst defensive back courts in the league?

[AdamTheGreek]

My one worry with Cole and the reason why he wasn't on my short list for pick #15 is his body. He's not 6'3", he's closer to 6'1". He has a very slight frame, not nearly as strong as his dad's. Can his body last for an entire NBA season? We'll see. With that said, he'll fill in fine for Augustin.

His confidence and voice on the floor is great. Much needed addition. He's already got the shot. It's a matter of making sure he shows defensive improvement (not getting blown by, rotating correctly, etc.). Cole's going to have some sick blocks this season where he's pinning guards' shots to the board. His leaping ability is better than what I saw from his UNC film, so hopefully that means his injury is behind him.

We'll see how long it takes Cole to get into closing lineups in crunch time situations. Could be a few weeks, may not be at all this season. That's up to Cole and whether Evan or Ross gets dealt away or not as well. But you can see a potential closing lineup of Vooch-AG-Evan or Ross-Cole-Fultz.

[OrlMagic05]

Hopefully Cole can stay healthy for a few years. I remember people calling Jameer a shooting guard in a PG body. Had Jameer not had the shoulder and meniscus injuries, I think he would've made several allstar teams. He was a near 50/40/90 guy.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

For majority of his career, Nelson career was around 12 points and 6 assists.

Those allstar games were awkward as hell. There made Nelson allstar as some sort of "honor" to Orlando and team sucess. But since Dwight and Rashard were actually already allstars , they gave it to Nelson instad of Hedo because of... reasons? I don't know, Hedo was actually better player.

Than Nelson couldn't play, so they replaced him with at times almost 35 years old Ray Allen because Celtics were good, and didn't call Igoudala who was probably at times baas man to man defender and one of 4 players who averaged at least 18-5-5 . Lebron, Kobe , Wade and him i belive.

And in same year f*** Mo Williams and Devin Harris were allstars, but Vince Carter ( 21 ppg, 5 rpg, 4,6 apg) wasn't?
Just imagine sitting in room with bunch of coaches that vote for bench allstars and come to conversation and decision of at least 16 morons : " Devin Harris or Vince Carter, yea i'm 100% going with Devin , Devin is stud, Devin is future "

In their defense, Devin did average 21 & 7 that year lol

[OrlMagic05]

The goal is the Fultz/Anthony backcourt as they both compliment each other really well.

Is our goal to have one of the worst defensive back courts in the league?

I don't think Fultz is a bad defender at all and with his length he can guard two's.

[Knightro]

6th man? Don't place a ceiling on him yet. Many raptors fans thought the same thing about FVV. All I'm saying is Cole is clearly passing the eye test and looks like an NBA player pretty early on. I have no clue what to expect from him growth-wise, But for now, I see a potent combo of Cole/Ross of the bench.

If Cole Anthony ends up becoming Fred VanVleet, then obviously we'll all be thrilled because FVV is really good.

That said...

I'm always very weary of comparing prospects to guys who are outliers, and FVV is a clear outlier to me.

You know as well as anyone that a significant chunk of VanVleet's value comes from the fact that he's a great defensive player. In fact, I don't think it's outrageous to suggest he's pound-for-pound one of the best defenders in the entire NBA. Short guys with short arms like FVV aren't supposed to be good defenders and he is. That's not normal.

Beyond that, VanVleet has had the benefit of being able to play every year of his career with an all-star point guard in Lowry, so FVV has been able to develop weaker parts of his game at his own pace without being tasked with being the primary ball handler/facilitator for the Raptors in the half court.

Not surprisingly (at least to me), FVV's big breakout season offensively as a starter came when he could play shooting guard in the same backcourt as Lowry. This is not dissimilar to Shai Gilgeous-Alexander blowing up last year for the Thunder playing as a SG paired with Chris Paul.

It's not fair to assume Cole Anthony is going to be anywhere close to as good of a defender as FVV is, nor does he have a multiple time all-star PG to learn from and take the pressure off him.