The Javale McGee Appreciation Thread

[Nivek]

My guess is that McGee doesn't understand what Flip's comment to MEDIA means. When Flip and the other coaches tell McGee what they want him to do, they're not talking about "style vs. substance," they're telling him specifically what they want him to do. McGee could almost certainly spout that stuff back without a problem, whether he does them regularly enough or not.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Just as I thought. McGee's finessy, perimeter-oriented basketball identify was forged by his misguided-but-well-meaning mother. From WaPo Insider:

McGee admitted that he developed his ball-handling skills from his mother, Pam, a former Olympian and WNBA star. Pam McGee told her son that he couldn't just bank on being tall. "My mother always made me do ball-handling and all that because she was like, 'What if you stop growing?' Because I always kept growing, but she said, 'What if you stop growing? You're like 6-8. What do you going to do, be like a post man at 6-8? She always had ball-handling skills. In high school I used to go coast to coast all the time at 6-11."

Flip is obviously trying to marry those perimeter skill with the intensity, consistency, and fundamentals necessary to be a reliable defensive pivot in the NBA:

Coach Flip Saunders is aware of McGee's athleticism and skills, but he has always demanded more substance than style from McGee, who is a candidate for a SportsCenter Top 10 Play anytime he's out on the open floor. He has always searched for the right way to maximize McGee's talents and ability to change to course of the game.

"I thought JaVale did some very spectacular type things," Saunders said. "What I liked more about what he did, was his rebounding, how aggressive he was as far as rebounding. He's still got to work. He got put in the box a couple of times where he let guys back him in and just score over him. He's got to work on getting a little more resistance in the low block. But he played hard; he really played hard. The impressive thing is to be able to play hard for an extended period of time."

One issue: JaVale claims he still doesn't know what Flip wants from him:

McGee said that he is still unsure about what Saunders expects from him. "Truthfully, I don't understand what exactly what substance he wants. I'm trying to rebound so if that's the substance he wants then I'm going to try my best to do that the most but I don't understand, so I'm just trying to go for everything, offensively and defensively, even if it's not even my rebound. I've decided I just don't care. I'm just going to try to get as many rebounds as possible."

It's one thing to understand what the coach wants from you, but still be a few months/years away from being able to put it into action. But does JaVale truly not understand what is expected of him in Flip's offensive and defensive schemes? As has been noted by many, Flip has "dumbed" down the playbook this year. What is JaVale still not understanding?

1. Play hard on both ends.
2. Box out on both ends.
3. Maintain proper spacing and help-side rotations on defense.

If JaVale did those three things full-tilt every game, I'd wager that Flip would indulge him the occasional dipsy-do drive or ill-advised 20 foot jumper.

I will repeat that there has been plenty of substance this preseason from Javale:

For the four games played so far in preseason, in 83 minutes Javale has grabbed 29 rebounds. He's grabbing 12.6 rrebounds per 36 minutes. That is excellent. McGee has scored 39 points in that time. His scoring is at 16.9 points per 36 minutes.

With playing time McGee is going to be able to see enough game film and have enough experience to realize the difference between giving good effort, fighting for position, and not giving good effort and getting backed down. He's getting to see Yi Jianlian exhibit better help-side rotation than what he's doing.

McGee will be fine.

In a way, I am starting to appreciate that Flip is demanding a ton from McGee. McGee is playing harder. This is actually a good thing. He's got a couple more years for his game to really take off. It will if he keeps working harder and believing in himself.

It took Pau a few more years to grow beyond a finesse player than McGee has been in the league.

[keynote]

Just as I thought. McGee's finessy, perimeter-oriented basketball identify was forged by his misguided-but-well-meaning mother. From WaPo Insider:

McGee admitted that he developed his ball-handling skills from his mother, Pam, a former Olympian and WNBA star. Pam McGee told her son that he couldn't just bank on being tall. "My mother always made me do ball-handling and all that because she was like, 'What if you stop growing?' Because I always kept growing, but she said, 'What if you stop growing? You're like 6-8. What do you going to do, be like a post man at 6-8? She always had ball-handling skills. In high school I used to go coast to coast all the time at 6-11."

It's too bad she told him to practice ball-handling rather than shooting. Even if he only grew to be 6-8, it's much better to be a 6-8 lights out shooter rather than a 6-8 ball handler. There are very few big men who have made a career out of handling the ball.

Indeed. Once you start getting north of 6'9", even the nicest of handles is at risk of getting picked by shorter, quicker players. We've all seen clips of bigs in practice putting the ball through their legs, behind their back, etc. while goofing around; but most players rarely risk pulling those moves out in real game situations.

[keynote]

One issue: JaVale claims he still doesn't know what Flip wants from him:

McGee said that he is still unsure about what Saunders expects from him. "Truthfully, I don't understand what exactly what substance he wants. I'm trying to rebound so if that's the substance he wants then I'm going to try my best to do that the most but I don't understand, so I'm just trying to go for everything, offensively and defensively, even if it's not even my rebound. I've decided I just don't care. I'm just going to try to get as many rebounds as possible."

It's one thing to understand what the coach wants from you, but still be a few months/years away from being able to put it into action. But does JaVale truly not understand what is expected of him in Flip's offensive and defensive schemes? As has been noted by many, Flip has "dumbed" down the playbook this year. What is JaVale still not understanding?

1. Play hard on both ends.
2. Box out on both ends.
3. Maintain proper spacing and help-side rotations on defense.

If JaVale did those three things full-tilt every game, I'd wager that Flip would indulge him the occasional dipsy-do drive or ill-advised 20 foot jumper.

I will repeat that there has been plenty of substance this preseason from Javale:

For the four games played so far in preseason, in 83 minutes Javale has grabbed 29 rebounds. He's grabbing 12.6 rrebounds per 36 minutes. That is excellent. McGee has scored 39 points in that time. His scoring is at 16.9 points per 36 minutes.

With playing time McGee is going to be able to see enough game film and have enough experience to realize the difference between giving good effort, fighting for position, and not giving good effort and getting backed down. He's getting to see Yi Jianlian exhibit better help-side rotation than what he's doing.

McGee will be fine.

In a way, I am starting to appreciate that Flip is demanding a ton from McGee. McGee is playing harder. This is actually a good thing. He's got a couple more years for his game to really take off. It will if he keeps working harder and believing in himself.

It took Pau a few more years to grow beyond a finesse player than McGee has been in the league.

McGee has been putting up stats, agreed. And, the effort level is up, which is #1 on my interpretation of what kind of substance Flip wants. But, I can't help but be concerned when I hear McGee basically say, "I'm not sure what to do out there, so I'll just play harder." As has been said by others on this board, he's putting up those stats mostly on effort and athleticism. Granted, that's an improvement on last year (where he was putting up stats based just athleticism), but It's as if the "put forth more effort" message is the only coaching point he's internalized thus far - when it's clear (as you said) that Flip is asking for effort and more.

McGee is also a lot more preoccupied with flash and highlights than most bigs are. Most bigs are like defensive linemen: they have workman-like personalities that match their roles. Sure, they can be characters in their own right (e.g., Shaq, Dwight, Birdman heck, even Wood), but most of 'em play within themselves and take pleasure from executing their roles well.

At this stage of his development, McGee seems to think more like a WR than a DL. Or, in NBA terms, his desire for the flash reveals the mentality of a young SG more than a young big (dare I say: Gerald Green? Oof. Okay, that's harsh.).

Hopefully, he'll realize that the other aspects of "substance" will afford him more opportunities to demonstrate his brand of flash. In particular, I'm hoping that review of game footage will reveal to him just how much his lack of fundamentals hinders his play.

[Zonkerbl]

I think the "substance" that he is not getting is defense, not rebounding. He needs to know where he's supposed to be and know where he's supposed to go.

I totally agree that his statement was taken out of context. He was saying something like "I don't know what the hell "style" vs. "substance" means but I do know he's been riding my ass for hours on end on rebounding technique and that's what I'm focused on right now."

But his biggest weakness is being out of position and/or letting himself be pushed out of position on defense. If he knows where he wants to be and simply can't hold his ground, that's fine since he'll get stronger eventually. If he truly doesn't understand where he's supposed to be, that's a big problem. But I don't believe that's the case.

[doclinkin]

My guess is that McGee doesn't understand what Flip's comment to MEDIA means

And this is an aspect of Flip's awkward human interaction that bugs me. I started to allude to it in the Gil shrine, but decided not to. Flip often seems more at ease chatting with media guys than he does with his players. A few times every year he manages to call out his players shortcomings in front of the cameras, as a motivational technique I suppose.

Whether it's ripping Blatche for failing to back down from KG when Garnett was basically licking his cheek, or here with McGee, or the awkward public announcement and retraction of Kirk and Wall as captains. Or even, as he said in a recent clip, running a team meeting with video pointing out his players flaws to each other. Consider your yearly performance review run as a board meeting where your co-workers got to chime in on all the things you do wrong. I can see the sense of it, even defend it in a team sport, but it still seems a pretty clumsy thing unless done exactly right.

He just doesn't seem to form natural loyalties. I can't see how players would kill and die for him, not when he's all too ready to assign blame and scapegoat them for team failings.

The Gilbert non-injury incident would have put Flip in as bad a light as Gil, except for the fact that it was Gil being Gil. Consider, what it would say about a team that a veteran player didn't feel he had the open door to approach his coach and say:

"Dude, you're running the veterans ragged, and wearing out your baby rookie playing him deep minutes in the preseason of an 82-game(+) Odyssey. You're even running me heavy minutes on a surgically rebuilt knee, and killing the squad with stamina drills following a pretty punishing back-to-back road schedule playing 3 games in 4 nights. But play a short bench giving veterans the major workload all at a time when we can freely test out our youngsters and give them livefire exercises when the results don't matter..".

Except that it's Gil, and he even occasionally blindsided player's Coach Eddie Jordan with similar impulsive decisions, I'd say there's a trust issue there. (Rightly so in part considering Flip's weak support of Gil during the overwrought media hellstorm that followed his doofus move prank. Subsequently Gilbert has done everything you could ask to step aside and allow a youngster to take the spotlight and the role he defined in DC, the organization ripped down his posters and refused to sell his jersey, he's heard trade rumors out the keister, but meanwhile Gilbert kept a low-profile all summer working his tail off to come in in tip top shape, per coaching instructions, has been steady mentoring youngsters like John and Nick, giving advice on and off court, playing the grown-up role though it's not been his natural fit. Then Flip names the newcomers as his lieutenants. With comments that underscore the concept that Gil is somewhat of an afterthought).

Here though we have JaVale basically saying: look I'm trying as hard as I can to rebound, and do what they tell me, and still I'm hearing from the media that Flip says I'm not giving substance. I don't know what the hell he means by that. I'm doing what my coaches tell me to do as best I can, why should I also have to battle it out in the media?

I dunno. Not to scapegoat Flip for having to deal with occasional knuckleheadery, I'm just saying I have a 1000% absolute certainty that no players would ever have to wonder what Coach Sammy Cassell meant by a particular statement. Because he would have made it abundantly clear, in a hilarious way. And if he had an open door policy (not 'I decide the line-ups' but instead 'my players know they can come to me if they have an idea or input') I suspect his guys would tell him: 'dude, let's let the puppies run, they need it, Nick's about to lose his housetraining again'.

Flip's a smart guy, he's just not always player-smart. Even sneering at former players (by implication) is a bad idea considering your roster here has guys who loved looked up to or respected those guys, far longer than they've known or respected you.

[closg00]

Amen Doc^

[rockymac52]

I wouldn't mind seeing McGee come off the bench for the first couple months of this season. He'll still be getting plenty of minutes obviously, but I think he's clearly got a ways to go before battling it out with the best centers in the NBA. I'd much rather see him come in off the bench, provide a spark of energy, and benefit from playing against the other team's second string center for many minutes each game.

This is what the Lakers did with Bynum a few years ago. He still got a decent amount of minutes, and his stats looked pretty good. But he clearly benefited stats-wise from matching up against the other team's backup centers. McGee dominates in the summer league. There aren't that many good centers in this league. Almost all of the second string centers in the NBA right now are nothing special. The backup centers that I see as decent are Pachulia, Shaq, Jermaine O'Neal, Chandler, Birdman, Brad Miller, Gortat, Oden, Pryzbilla, Cousins, and Splitter (I'm a fan).

McGee can easily handle them. Let him feast on them to get his confidence up while he continues to improve with his physicality and defense. Over time he can move into the starting lineup. But I'd hate to see him get discouraged if he is the starter from the get go and he doesn't perform as well as he's capable of.

[Ruzious]

My guess is that McGee doesn't understand what Flip's comment to MEDIA means

And this is an aspect of Flip's awkward human interaction that bugs me. I started to allude to it in the Gil shrine, but decided not to. Flip often seems more at ease chatting with media guys than he does with his players. A few times every year he manages to call out his players shortcomings in front of the cameras, as a motivational technique I suppose.

Whether it's ripping Blatche for failing to back down from KG when Garnett was basically licking his cheek, or here with McGee, or the awkward public announcement and retraction of Kirk and Wall as captains. Or even, as he said in a recent clip, running a team meeting with video pointing out his players flaws to each other. Consider your yearly performance review run as a board meeting where your co-workers got to chime in on all the things you do wrong. I can see the sense of it, even defend it in a team sport, but it still seems a pretty clumsy thing unless done exactly right.

He just doesn't seem to form natural loyalties. I can't see how players would kill and die for him, not when he's all too ready to assign blame and scapegoat them for team failings.

The Gilbert non-injury incident would have put Flip in as bad a light as Gil, except for the fact that it was Gil being Gil. Consider, what it would say about a team that a veteran player didn't feel he had the open door to approach his coach and say:

"Dude, you're running the veterans ragged, and wearing out your baby rookie playing him deep minutes in the preseason of an 82-game(+) Odyssey. You're even running me heavy minutes on a surgically rebuilt knee, and killing the squad with stamina drills following a pretty punishing back-to-back road schedule playing 3 games in 4 nights. But play a short bench giving veterans the major workload all at a time when we can freely test out our youngsters and give them livefire exercises when the results don't matter..".

Except that it's Gil, and he even occasionally blindsided player's Coach Eddie Jordan with similar impulsive decisions, I'd say there's a trust issue there. (Rightly so in part considering Flip's weak support of Gil during the overwrought media hellstorm that followed his doofus move prank. Subsequently Gilbert has done everything you could ask to step aside and allow a youngster to take the spotlight and the role he defined in DC, the organization ripped down his posters and refused to sell his jersey, he's heard trade rumors out the keister, but meanwhile Gilbert kept a low-profile all summer working his tail off to come in in tip top shape, per coaching instructions, has been steady mentoring youngsters like John and Nick, giving advice on and off court, playing the grown-up role though it's not been his natural fit. Then Flip names the newcomers as his lieutenants. With comments that underscore the concept that Gil is somewhat of an afterthought).

Here though we have JaVale basically saying: look I'm trying as hard as I can to rebound, and do what they tell me, and still I'm hearing from the media that Flip says I'm not giving substance. I don't know what the hell he means by that. I'm doing what my coaches tell me to do as best I can, why should I also have to battle it out in the media?

I dunno. Not to scapegoat Flip for having to deal with occasional knuckleheadery, I'm just saying I have a 1000% absolute certainty that no players would ever have to wonder what Coach Sammy Cassell meant by a particular statement. Because he would have made it abundantly clear, in a hilarious way. And if he had an open door policy (not 'I decide the line-ups' but instead 'my players know they can come to me if they have an idea or input') I suspect his guys would tell him: 'dude, let's let the puppies run, they need it, Nick's about to lose his housetraining again'.

Flip's a smart guy, he's just not always player-smart. Even sneering at former players (by implication) is a bad idea considering your roster here has guys who loved looked up to or respected those guys, far longer than they've known or respected you.

I guess I come from a different background as far as sports and coaching is concerned than some folks here. I don't get the ultra-sensitivity. I grew up where coaches yell and scream and cuss at players all the time - the Gary Williams/John Thompson school. And here, it seems like any little criticism of a player or mis-understanding is a horrible thing. From what I've seen, mis-understandings are sometimes just what you need - it makes you dig a little deeper to find out what the other person really wants - rather than something to freak out about.

[AceDegenerate]

Yeah, and how many Gary Williams / John Thompson's have had success in the NBA? That BS style is good for the NCAA but has never done jack in the NBA.

[doclinkin]

I guess I come from a different background as far as sports and coaching is concerned than some folks here. I don't get the ultra-sensitivity. I grew up where coaches yell and scream and cuss at players all the time - the Gary Williams/John Thompson school. And here, it seems like any little criticism of a player or mis-understanding is a horrible thing. From what I've seen, mis-understandings are sometimes just what you need - it makes you dig a little deeper to find out what the other person really wants - rather than something to freak out about.

Yeah. Not freaking.

But one thing that John Thompson would not do is sell his players out to the media. He'd yell and scream directly-- but you wouldn't catch a word in the media. He knew the media wasn't working to his player's best benefit. Ditto Gary, it's rare that you see him detail his player's shortcomings to a third party, he deals with the player face to face. I'm saying the same thing about Sammy as well. I suspect his guys would run through walls for him. I know for a fact he'll knock their heads a bit when they need it. Face to face.

Flip though always seems like he's trying to impress media guys with how witty and smart he is, but has a bit of a tin ear with regard to how to get into players heads and make them understand what you want; make them want to understand. Don't get me wrong, Flip's the best x's and o's and adjustments coach the team has had since I've been a fan in DC. But that's why I occasionally cringe with some of the directions he takes for influencing player behavior. Makes me shake my head thinking this is gonna blow up on him at some point.

It's not impossible to do, Phil Jackson for instance is a master of media manipulation and player influence, even when he needles a guy through the press. Flip is more in the Larry Brown school perhaps working against his own interest, griping complaining or laying blame more than using the media strategically.

[Ruzious]

I hear ya Doc, but sit near the front of any Terps game (and I'm sure it's not just the Terps' games). The players get screamed at every game - in front of a whole lot of fans and media folk. It's just not a big deal.

[doclinkin]

There's a difference. The coaches aren't shouting those in-game criticisms to the media echo chamber, players aren't asked to respond in a 4th grade 'he-said so-and-so about you' tattletale fashion. It's less about in game correction in the heat of battle, and more about image management after the fact.

Media can be a powerful tool, if you use it right, but it becomes a magnifier for your message and that can get out of hand when you don't know how to properly feed the beast. Greg Popovich rarely manages his players through the media, for instance. When he does make a statement it's as a carefully considered choice. As a military intel trained guy he understands the uses of psy ops. Don't get confused, your mission is not to explain yourself properly to the world at large, it's to maximize performance of your crew. If statements you make to the media keep coming back from the players with the response "I don't know what he's talking about." Then you've got a communications problem.

John Thompson, Gary Williams, they have no communications problem. Their players know exactly (and profanely) what their coach wants them to do at any given moment.

[bullitz]

Apples and Oranges. The NCAA is a coaches league. They run the show. Players are important but usually secondary except in extreme cases (see: carmelo anthony, kevin durant). College players can't afford to do anything but listen and take measures to correct whatever they're being yelled at for. They have scholarships to worry about and need to be wary of being blacklisted as un-coachable by the coach costing them millions or, even worse, a shot at a NBA career.

NBA players don't have to be as concerned with being labeled uncoachable because talent usually trumps anything. NBA players also have more money in the bank and guaranteed contracts so there's already a fraction of the incentive based on that.

Besides, one of the reasons Gary has a hard time recruiting the top high school talent is because of his abrasive style. A new breed of gentler coaches are running circles around the old-guard I'll yell at you till I cough a lung coaches recruiting wise. It's a big deal to Athletic Directors and there seems to be a real effort to hire coaches that aren't so abrasive.

[Ruzious]

There's a difference. The coaches aren't shouting those in-game criticisms to the media echo chamber, players aren't asked to respond in a 4th grade 'he-said so-and-so about you' tattletale fashion. It's less about in game correction in the heat of battle, and more about image management after the fact.

Media can be a powerful tool, if you use it right, but it becomes a magnifier for your message and that can get out of hand when you don't know how to properly feed the beast. Greg Popovich rarely manages his players through the media, for instance. When he does make a statement it's as a carefully considered choice. As a military intel trained guy he understands the uses of psy ops. Don't get confused, your mission is not to explain yourself properly to the world at large, it's to maximize performance of your crew. If statements you make to the media keep coming back from the players with the response "I don't know what he's talking about." Then you've got a communications problem.

John Thompson, Gary Williams, they have no communications problem. Their players know exactly (and profanely) what their coach wants them to do at any given moment.

Even if we go with your rationalizations there, there's a monumental difference between the players Popovich has dealt with vs the people Flip has. I don't know whether or not Pop would have handled things any more diplomatically than Flip did if he was in Flip's shoes. There are no one size fits all answers, and there's no one right way to do things.

[montestewart]

The so-called "Zen Master" (I hate that label) talks to his players through the press quite a bit it seems to me, and I'm not always sure it's been successful. Riley has done it too. Some coaches can get away with it sometimes, but it can also come across as "the adults are talking now," which probably doesn't go over too well with anyone.

[doclinkin]

there's a monumental difference between the players Popovich has dealt with vs the people Flip has.

That's very true, because in an eyeblink Pop will jettison any player who can't quickly pick up his system. Smarts are high on the list of traits that the Spurs look for in a player. And since they always draft late they can afford to be picky and pass up supposed great talents in favor of proven high IQ ballers. I loved reading about how he handled Richard Jefferson this summer: get in shape or I will trade yerass so fast your head will spin. Track record shows he does exactly that. Pop's got 'hand'.

[pancakes3]

I would have no problem with Flip's style if a) he's won, and b) he's not so passive aggressive. Blabbing to the media is a weak move. Also, Flip's worked with some genuine talent in his day and he's come up short. WAY short. The fact that most of his former star players have won rings WITHOUT him is damning. He has a good enough grasp of the x's and o's on offense i'm sure but that really doesn't give you license to treat your players like Riley and Jackson.

Pops is a hardass too but he's got rings as well. Plus he's probably a better coach. You could argue that Flip and Pops started out on equal footing and it's obvious that Pops did more with the cards he was dealt than Flip.

Hypothetically speaking i would be much more likely to run suicides for Pops than Flip.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

My guess is that McGee doesn't understand what Flip's comment to MEDIA means

And this is an aspect of Flip's awkward human interaction that bugs me. I started to allude to it in the Gil shrine, but decided not to. Flip often seems more at ease chatting with media guys than he does with his players. A few times every year he manages to call out his players shortcomings in front of the cameras, as a motivational technique I suppose.

Whether it's ripping Blatche for failing to back down from KG when Garnett was basically licking his cheek, or here with McGee, or the awkward public announcement and retraction of Kirk and Wall as captains. Or even, as he said in a recent clip, running a team meeting with video pointing out his players flaws to each other. Consider your yearly performance review run as a board meeting where your co-workers got to chime in on all the things you do wrong. I can see the sense of it, even defend it in a team sport, but it still seems a pretty clumsy thing unless done exactly right.

He just doesn't seem to form natural loyalties. I can't see how players would kill and die for him, not when he's all too ready to assign blame and scapegoat them for team failings.

The Gilbert non-injury incident would have put Flip in as bad a light as Gil, except for the fact that it was Gil being Gil. Consider, what it would say about a team that a veteran player didn't feel he had the open door to approach his coach and say:

"Dude, you're running the veterans ragged, and wearing out your baby rookie playing him deep minutes in the preseason of an 82-game(+) Odyssey. You're even running me heavy minutes on a surgically rebuilt knee, and killing the squad with stamina drills following a pretty punishing back-to-back road schedule playing 3 games in 4 nights. But play a short bench giving veterans the major workload all at a time when we can freely test out our youngsters and give them livefire exercises when the results don't matter..".

Except that it's Gil, and he even occasionally blindsided player's Coach Eddie Jordan with similar impulsive decisions, I'd say there's a trust issue there. (Rightly so in part considering Flip's weak support of Gil during the overwrought media hellstorm that followed his doofus move prank. Subsequently Gilbert has done everything you could ask to step aside and allow a youngster to take the spotlight and the role he defined in DC, the organization ripped down his posters and refused to sell his jersey, he's heard trade rumors out the keister, but meanwhile Gilbert kept a low-profile all summer working his tail off to come in in tip top shape, per coaching instructions, has been steady mentoring youngsters like John and Nick, giving advice on and off court, playing the grown-up role though it's not been his natural fit. Then Flip names the newcomers as his lieutenants. With comments that underscore the concept that Gil is somewhat of an afterthought).

Here though we have JaVale basically saying: look I'm trying as hard as I can to rebound, and do what they tell me, and still I'm hearing from the media that Flip says I'm not giving substance. I don't know what the hell he means by that. I'm doing what my coaches tell me to do as best I can, why should I also have to battle it out in the media?

I dunno. Not to scapegoat Flip for having to deal with occasional knuckleheadery, I'm just saying I have a 1000% absolute certainty that no players would ever have to wonder what Coach Sammy Cassell meant by a particular statement. Because he would have made it abundantly clear, in a hilarious way. And if he had an open door policy (not 'I decide the line-ups' but instead 'my players know they can come to me if they have an idea or input') I suspect his guys would tell him: 'dude, let's let the puppies run, they need it, Nick's about to lose his housetraining again'.

Flip's a smart guy, he's just not always player-smart. Even sneering at former players (by implication) is a bad idea considering your roster here has guys who loved looked up to or respected those guys, far longer than they've known or respected you.

doc, I appreciate the way you articulate things. I have felt the very same things about Flip since about last November. Calling out the players the way he does rubbed me the wrong way. I don't have your way with words. I would just say he throws his players under the bus, doesn't have their backs, and is a hater at times. Worse is he often panders to the media in a way that says the players keep getting it wrong (but not me).

I'm sorry to see this type character in a coach. That's never going to win at the highest level. A punitive atmosphere where somebody's always in the doghouse keeps folks on edge.

Yes, doc, I see Flip as a closed, system-over-personnel leader. He is going to help guys by drilling certain points but he's also going to greatly frustrate, inhibit, and alienate at times.

I am glad Wall seems to really be taking to Flip's ways. My hope is in the young PG being a true leader, and one the coach allows a lot of leeway. Otherwise, Flip will eventually be gone.

[Nivek]

I agree with the poster who said that college and pros are very different. What college coaches can do and be successful isn't the same thing as what a pro coach can do. Not just because of egos and guaranteed contracts, but because of the length of the season. After awhile, it works the nerves. Ask PJ Carlesimo.

Not to take Sprewell's side here, but I was chatting with three players in the visitors locker room before a game a few years ago and we somehow got on the subject of Sprewell choking Carlesimo. One of the players said something to the effect of -- it's not okay to choke your coach, but if there's anyone who deserved it, it'd be PJ. The other guys agreed. Each of them had the attitude that they'd never do something like that, and they certainly didn't condone it, but they could understand a guy snapping and doing it. Because PJ's coaching strategy was to belittle, berate and insult guys. He thought it would motivate them to improve. In actuality, it just drove his players up the wall.

One reason NBA coaches sometimes use media to send messages to players is because it's one of the few levers they have on the player. The other is minutes. If a player isn't doing what the coach is asking him to do, there isn't a ton of recourse for the coach. He can cut his playing time, but often times that ends up hurting the team more than just living with the problems the player is causing -- a "cure is worse than the illness" type of thing. Or, he can say something publicly, embarrass the player and hopefully change the behavior.

It has to be done carefully or the coach can risk alienating the player. This is where I think doc and ccj have a good point. I think Flip does have a bit of a tin ear. He isn't as careful with his message as Phil Jackson is. I think part of that may be that Flip is more of a technician than Phil. Phil's more of an Xs and Os guy than he lets on, but he also understands psychology and human nature in a way that's more effective than Flip. In fact, I think Phil's understanding -- and use of that understanding -- is superior to nearly any coach in sports.