Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched

TheGOATRises007 · Post #701 » by **TheGOATRises007** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:38 am

Jcool0 wrote:
Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
That's just not true.

Casual fans may see it that way.

Why? They saw him play last year. They see the centerpiece as Lauri.

You're lying to yourself now.

Casual Bulls fans 100% did not see Lauri as the centerpiece.

brucey_72 · Post #702 » by **brucey_72** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:38 am

Well here is to hoping Lavine becomes a good player. Hopefully this looks like a steal in 2 years, doubt it but we can hope

Jcool0 · Post #703 » by **Jcool0** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:39 am

Read on Twitter

rtblues · Post #704 » by **rtblues** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:39 am

MGB8 wrote:What is done is done.

We just have to hope he develops into the more athletic version of Rip Hamilton he could become, rather than takin* a Jamal Crawford, Dion Waiters trajectory.

I would have let him walk at this price, but the downside risk was that he blows up.

They had a chance to see him so I hope they are making the right call. But the mistakes on Felicio, and Doug in the draft before then, make me a heavy doubter.

Another couple of stellar defenders Jamal and Waiters.... Oh boy, we're F'ed

madvillian · Post #705 » by **madvillian** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:39 am

Calinks wrote:
Hugi Mancura wrote:
Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
And that's not even comparable either.

Rose was amazing before his torn ACL.

Lavine was literally the exact same player as he is now.

LaVine haven't improved his game in his 4 season's in NBA. He haven't improved his game during the time players should learn quicly. Why would anyone think he could improve his game in the future when he finally got paid huge money. What you saw will be best you will ever get from him (shooting will go nearer the Minnesota level, but that's all). It is nice to see someone is positive about him, but there are lots of players who are just happy to get to the nba and are not willing to do any true work to improve them selves and sadly I think LaVine belongs to this category.

The heck are you talking about? That is bull crap. He has steadily improved from rookie to when he hurt his ACL. When we started him over Kevin Matin in year 2 I thought Flip was crazy but LAvine was up to the task. His jumpshot alone got so much better. He didn't go from scrub to Kobe Bryant but to sit there and say he hasn't improved... come on son.

great time to come over here super aggressive mod. seriously there's a lot of metrics (INCLUDING BULLS FANS' EYES) that tell you this guy **** sucks. Seriously, later with that ****. 75% of fans here don't want to hear that right now and to come over and be rude like that isn't cool.

Chicago-Bull-E · Post #706 » by **Chicago-Bull-E** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:40 am

TheSchmaranz wrote:Look on the bright side, we could've given Kyle Anderson $40 million.

Kyle Anderson was pretty great last year for a low usage player. His advanced stats tower over Lavines.

Low usage player though, Bulls don't need a lot of that right now.

OldSchoolNoBull · Post #707 » by **OldSchoolNoBull** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:41 am

For anyone interested, assuming the deal is flat at 19.5M(which is what the latest tweet indicated), our cap situation looks like this:

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=1413008415b4026024179c355294748

A few things:

1. I've taken the liberty of waiving Kilpatrick and Zipser, waiving+stretching Asik(so his hit in 2019 is 1M instead of 3M), and renouncing cap holds for RoLo, Holiday, Payne, and Grant.

2. With Holds for Portis and Nwaba still on the books, we're at about 41.4M in space in 2019. Letting Portis walk(or trading him for less assets that won't cost as much going forward) would open up more room. As would dumping Felcio(Melo anyone)?

3. All of that matters only if you think we'd have any legit chance at landing 2 max FAs next summer.

4. All of that aside, after LaVine's deal, again assuming it's a flat 19.5, we still have over 16M in space right now, this summer. Would not surprise me at all if we make an offer to Jabari, and if it's a short term 1+1 "prove it" kind of deal, I wouldn't mind it at all. Carter/Lauri/Jabari/LaVine/Dunn seems intriguing. Oh, they could be awful. Or they could find something together. BUT it only makes sense if GarPax and Hoiberg are actually going to let them play together. If RoLo and Holiday are still going to get 20+ entitlement minutes per game, then probably don't even bother.

TheSuzerain · Post #708 » by **TheSuzerain** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:41 am

It's over. The rebuild has failed.

Took GarPax less than 400 days which is downright impressive.

madvillian · Post #709 » by **madvillian** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:42 am

this "knee protection" **** is peak Chicago spin. Christ, serious vesting options/protections are not even a thing in the NBA. Worst case if he tears up his knee we don't have to pay him. Great. Still wasted investment. It's a meaningless spin. Polishing a turd. Lipstick on a pig.

TyrusRose2425 · Post #710 » by **TyrusRose2425** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:42 am

Ben wrote:
TyrusRose2425 wrote:
Ben wrote:
Please explain this reasoning. And please do take into account the financial concept of "sunk costs."

You can always trade him considering how young he is. There will always be a GM willing to take on the risk of a 25-26 year old Lavine. And if it pans out, then good thing we matched.

Ahem. You cannot always trade him if he underperforms his contract and if other teams know that you need the capspace to sign, oh, I dunno, two superstars who want to play together.

You can only trade him if he seems to be outperforming his contract. And if he seems to be doing that, there'll be no reason to trade him.

By your reasoning, it's always wise to match ANY young player's offer sheet because, hey, some GM will be willing to take the multi-year risk on him after you've screwed up. It's demonstrably untrue using historical data. And the flawed psychology of "sunk costs" still have not been addressed.

We probably aren't signing 2 max free agents next summer anyways. There aren't 2 guys that want to come here.

Post #711 » by **Payt10** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:42 am

TheSuzerain wrote:It's over. The rebuild has failed.

Took GarPax less than 400 days which is downright impressive.

madvillian · Post #712 » by **madvillian** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:42 am

TheSuzerain wrote:It's over. The rebuild has failed.

Took GarPax less than 400 days which is downright impressive.

we are all thesuzerain tonight. or at least most of us. this is a **** moment. I don't even care if the 10% odds he's actually good hit, this is AWFUL PROCESS.

****.

BahamaBull · Post #713 » by **BahamaBull** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:42 am

HORRIBLE decision by the Bulls. This is so frustrating ...Dont even know what to say...I think I need a beer and I will comeback later...

Post #714 » by **Calinks** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:42 am

madvillian wrote:
Calinks wrote:
Hugi Mancura wrote:
LaVine haven't improved his game in his 4 season's in NBA. He haven't improved his game during the time players should learn quicly. Why would anyone think he could improve his game in the future when he finally got paid huge money. What you saw will be best you will ever get from him (shooting will go nearer the Minnesota level, but that's all). It is nice to see someone is positive about him, but there are lots of players who are just happy to get to the nba and are not willing to do any true work to improve them selves and sadly I think LaVine belongs to this category.

The heck are you talking about? That is bull crap. He has steadily improved from rookie to when he hurt his ACL. When we started him over Kevin Matin in year 2 I thought Flip was crazy but LAvine was up to the task. His jumpshot alone got so much better. He didn't go from scrub to Kobe Bryant but to sit there and say he hasn't improved... come on son.

great time to come over here super aggressive mod. seriously there's a lot of metrics (INCLUDING BULLS FANS' EYES) that tell you this guy **** sucks. Seriously, later with that ****. 75% of fans here don't want to hear that right now and to come over and be rude like that isn't cool.

If you are judging him by 20 something games off a torn ACL you aren't doing him justice as a player. If you are going off of his time in Minnesota and think he never improved, I just have to strongly disagree.

FecesOfDeath · Post #715 » by **FecesOfDeath** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:42 am

Hey, at least the Bulls are staying younger and more athletic.

Ctownbulls · Post #716 » by **Ctownbulls** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:43 am

madvillian wrote:this "knee protection" **** is peak Chicago spin. Christ, serious vesting options/protections are not even a thing in the NBA. Worst case if he tears up his knee we don't have to pay him. Great. Still wasted investment. It's a meaningless spin. Polishing a turd. Lipstick on a pig.

This isn't really Chicago spin...it was the contract that Sacramento offered.

Jcool0 · Post #717 » by **Jcool0** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:43 am

Plus, the salary cap is rising. For perspective, $20 million annually is the same percentage of the cap as an $11.5 million deal five years ago.

Granted, it takes two sides to finish a deal. And this isn’t to suggest the Bulls should’ve lavished a five-year, $146 million max deal on LaVine.

But the revisionist history on LaVine’s value from some circles — not necessarily from the Bulls — is getting a bit much.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-bulls-zach-lavine-free-agency-20180706-story.html#

TheSchmaranz · Post #718 » by **TheSchmaranz** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:43 am

Wake me when we sign Brent Barry and Eddie Robinson.

TheSuzerain · Post #719 » by **TheSuzerain** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:44 am

madvillian wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:It's over. The rebuild has failed.

Took GarPax less than 400 days which is downright impressive.

we are all thesuzerain tonight. or at least most of us. this is a **** moment. I don't even care if the 10% odds he's actually good hit, this is AWFUL PROCESS.

****.

We need another word for our process.

Because they basically do the exact opposite of what Hinkie would do at all times.

DanTown8587 · Post #720 » by **DanTown8587** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 2:44 am

"We can't afford to pay Jimmy Butler, it will be too expensive" says the franchise that gave 110 million for Felicio + Lavine.

The FO simply doesn't operate like they know what they're doing.

Match? 4 yrs 78 mil