OT- The Last Dance documentary

[The 6ft Hurdle]

Michael is a lot of things, if he’s just got Oakley and creaky Woolridge with him as a 21 year old, is he supposed to win a ring? Or old Mike? Ridiculous commentary. You gotta give him a real team. You want to talk about building a good team without Jordan, we aren’t talking about good teams. We’re talking about 3 peats. You only get that with a one in 50 years talent. Krause was an above competent guy in a suit that cashed in on the GOAT. The league is full of guys like Krause. Stop talking like he was an irreplaceable piece of 6 titles. That’s a joke.

Krause made a few moves that were near irreplaceable.

1: Traded up to get Scottie Pippen.
2: Hired Phil Jackson
3: Brought in Kukoc

Those moves are ones that were outside the box, and far enough outside the box that you can't attribute them to a replacement level GM.

Rodman too. And Bison Dele, though less significant.

Hiring Phil Jackson as an assistant was in the works for a few years. He had to push out Doug Collins who had just taken a young Bulls team to the Eastern Conference finals so that Tex Winter could have a more prominent role alongside Phil Jackson. In some ways what Krause did in the last year of the dynasty (pining for Tim Floyd) could be reflected in moves he'd made earlier (pushing Collins out for Jackson and Tex Winter) --- big, bold, building up a team to a point of serious contention, though now that he had a championship team, he caught some serious fury for trying to break up the team. Though as the series goes on, I'm sure we'll see how exhausting everything was for MJ by 1998.

[The 6ft Hurdle]

This is the shot that set me as up as a Bulls fan for life. The minute the ball was passed to Paxson (before he shot it) I jumped off the couch.

Watch on YouTube

I watched that a lot as a kid, my folks recorded it on video cassette. It's as iconic a moment as any in franchise history.

It's still hard for me to believe that this is the same guy whose apparent philosophies and decisionmaking I've violently disliked if not been disgusted with for a long time.

This doc series makes me think how he might've been trying to be something of an anti-Krause, and has just mired this team in a never-ending indecision and mediocrity.

[DASMACKDOWN]

This is the shot that set me as up as a Bulls fan for life. The minute the ball was passed to Paxson (before he shot it) I jumped off the couch.

Watch on YouTube

I watched that a lot as a kid, my folks recorded it on video cassette. It's as iconic a moment as any in franchise history.

It's still hard for me to believe that this is the same guy whose apparent philosophies and decisionmaking I've violently disliked if not been disgusted with for a long time.

This doc series makes me think how he might've been trying to be something of an anti-Krause, and has just mired this team in a never-ending indecision and mediocrity.

The thing to me about Paxson is, the drive he had at the beginning, he completely lost along the way. At first he was an Anti-Krause approach. Essentially getting rid of all Krause's coaches and players. Then wanted to instill his own vision.

But as the years past, he was losing himself and actually became more like Krause. The Vinny situation, how he handled Thibs, various moves during the Rose and Jimmy regime. Somewhere along those lines Pax changed from that hungry guy to just a comfortable status quo guy.

Paxson is still a Bulls hero but he was beginning to tarnish and fade over the last several years because of how the Bulls were run.

[dumbell78]

MJ calling out Isiah and his bull $hit 30 years later, still showing rage and hate is why I love MJ so much. You can just feel how much MJ loved beating his ass! Also shout out to Horace for calling them BITCHES LMAO. I love it!

[MrSparkle]

This is the shot that set me as up as a Bulls fan for life. The minute the ball was passed to Paxson (before he shot it) I jumped off the couch.

Watch on YouTube

I watched that a lot as a kid, my folks recorded it on video cassette. It's as iconic a moment as any in franchise history.

It's still hard for me to believe that this is the same guy whose apparent philosophies and decisionmaking I've violently disliked if not been disgusted with for a long time.

This doc series makes me think how he might've been trying to be something of an anti-Krause, and has just mired this team in a never-ending indecision and mediocrity.

The thing to me about Paxson is, the drive he had at the beginning, he completely lost along the way. At first he was an Anti-Krause approach. Essentially getting rid of all Krause's coaches and players. Then wanted to instill his own vision.

But as the years past, he was losing himself and actually became more like Krause. The Vinny situation, how he handled Thibs, various moves during the Rose and Jimmy regime. Somewhere along those lines Pax changed from that hungry guy to just a comfortable status quo guy.

Paxson is still a Bulls hero but he was beginning to tarnish and fade over the last several years because of how the Bulls were run.

Maybe just maybe, Jerry Reinsdorf is the Emperor Sith Lord, and he had corrupted Krause into the dark side, and then Paxson became his young apprentice and he actually kept fighting his turn to the dark side, but the sith powers just kept getting him more and more promotions.

[GetBuLLish]

I thought MJ's mom stole the show in Episodes 1 & 2, and Horace Grant stole the show in Episodes 3 & 4.

Is there any chance they release an extended version of this series? I could watch 20 more episodes.

[dougthonus]

If RealGM were around in the late 90s, we'd be talking about how excited we were about Dragan Tarlac coming over. I still remember Chuck and Kenny making fun of Tarlac and Bagaric looking like two weird bald-headed twins on the Bulls bench. Anyone have any insight on why Tarlac was such a horrible bust in the NBA and unable to make a successful transition after having a pretty good Euro career? The Dragan Tarlac we saw looks nothing like this guy:

Watch on YouTube

What impressed you about that video? Doesn't look that strong or athletic, not good hops or anything else, his post move were pretty slow and mechanical. He didn't show any ball skills or anything else that looked exciting.

I mean, if he had amazing stats and was extremely consistent with all those moves and dominated the competition then maybe I would feel that way (that may have been true, no idea), but watching that video didn't make me think he would be any good.

[MrSparkle]

Couple of things:

1. So was the Jerry dance from 91 or later? Either way I thought it was nice seeing them all have fun and cheer Krause on.

2. I maintain Isiah is a nice guy. Watch his interview with Q and Miles. But on-court against the Bulls it was blood. The walk-off was disrespectful and deserves a full apology not a defense. Post covid he should arrange a Pistons/Bulls sportsmanship shake. Fantastic hearing Horace and Jordan hold nothing back today.

3. Rodman is the most fascinating player in the history of the NBA. Also terrifying watching him get on a motorcycle while boozing. But man, what a gift he had for the game.

4. I was too young to watch but from what I knew about pre-LAC Harper, it is very strange that the coach decided not to put him on MJ.

[MrSparkle]

Neat but brief interview with Tex as my brain tries to wrap itself around the Tim Floyd saga. Tex is a straight-talker. Perhaps rightfully calls Mutumbo and Zo overrate players. But also just goes into detail on why the triangle did and didn’t work in its various implementations.

http://alanpaul.net/2014/06/an-interview-with-triangle-mastermind-tex-winter/

Also , I didn’t realize Floyd was actually first hired as a director of bb operations. Seemed like a pathetic attempt to “leave the door open” for MJ and Phil, but I suppose Reinsdorf did want to keep the image of them keeping the door open and resolve him and Krause of the blame. IMO that’s the toxic “FU” ultimatum that ruins franchises. No wonder Phil and MJ pursued their hobbies (motorcycles and golf).
https://www.deseret.com/1998/7/23/19392686/bulls-hire-floyd-but-not-as-coach

Lastly, random nuggets:

- Luc was S&T to PHX for a $32m/6y contract. What were they thinking? 6 years for a guy who barely made it through 98?

- I am curious about how things could go that wrong in 99. I remember Harper’s face breaking from an elbow (was it Kemp?)... but between Tex Winter, Barry, Kukoc, Brown and Dickey, there was a combo of IQ and experience. I do remember teams relishing in embarrassing the Bulls after a decade of MJ punishment, but it’s still strange to me that there was that strong a breakdown as to record-losses and no direction. Behind the scenes it must’ve been a very sad, depressing sinking ship.

[prolific passer]

Leaving Ehlo on Jordan sadly wasn't the dumbest thing Lenny Wilkens did during his time. 1994 trade deadline looms.

[GetBuLLish]

Really good Zach Lowe article on Kukoc. Toni needs to be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29072197/toni-kukoc-talks-michael-jordan-scottie-pippen-last-dance-chicago-bulls

[prolific passer]

Really good Zach Lowe article on Kukoc. Toni needs to be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29072197/toni-kukoc-talks-michael-jordan-scottie-pippen-last-dance-chicago-bulls

Was watching some of this 98 game between the bulls and heat in which the bulls started Rodman, Kukoc, Pippen, Jordan, and Harper and Riley's plan was to attack Kukoc because he was the weakest defender of the bunch. If he is your weakest defender then you have a good defensive squad on your hands.

[logical_art]

I love watching all this old Bulls footage but this is not a great documentary.

The timeline is pretty scattershot and the transitions dont really make sense.

Also, its very onesided. We haven't heard anything about how Phil wanted to leave anyway or how Rodman was physically through or how MJ was burnt out. It's all just Krause the (dead) villain. It's great to have a simple bad guy for a compelling narrative, but it's not accurate.

[prolific passer]

I love watching all this old Bulls footage but this is not a great documentary.

The timeline is pretty scattershot and the transitions dont really make sense.

Also, its very onesided. We haven't heard anything about how Phil wanted to leave anyway or how Rodman was physically through or how MJ was burnt out. It's all just Krause the (dead) villain. It's great to have a simple bad guy for a simplistic narrative, but it's not accurate.

I think they took a page out that basketball: a love story documentary when it comes to the timeline.

[Big Pippen]

Rodman is an epic enigma, and Im not talking about wearing a wedding dress or painting his nails.

- He kind of didn’t care what people outside his inner circle thought of him, but also spent a decade crafting a celebrity public persona

- He is one of the most inarticulate interviews you will ever hear, but also one of the smartest basketball players of his generation

- He went from Jordan and Pippen’s (probably) third most hated opponent to a beloved teammate and essential member of the dynasty

- He would spend endless benders destroying his body, and yet would also work out maniacally and kept himself in great physical shape

- He didn’t value traditional box score stats, and yet brought insane value to a team by doing things to improve the (ppg, fga, fg %, etc) stats of teammates. In his college highlights, he had a good looking jump shot! But he gave all that up and became a grunt.

- Despite outwardly seeming like the biggest dirtbag in the world, all his former coaches and teammates lead with how shy and sweet and (sometimes) thoughtful he is

- In the footage, he is roughly the same height and weight as Pippen. And yet, he could give Karl Malone, Shawn Kemp, and Shaq trouble on D and on the boards

What a fascinating guy. Its over 20 years later and I still find all this intriguing.

[troza]

I love watching all this old Bulls footage but this is not a great documentary.

The timeline is pretty scattershot and the transitions dont really make sense.

Also, its very onesided. We haven't heard anything about how Phil wanted to leave anyway or how Rodman was physically through or how MJ was burnt out. It's all just Krause the (dead) villain. It's great to have a simple bad guy for a compelling narrative, but it's not accurate.

Rodman physically through. Watching all playoffs again and when he was a starter (vs Nets and vs Hornets) he had 16.1 rebounds per game (Charlotte series ended on his 37th birthday). I just started the series vs the Pacers that I don't remember much and vs the Jazz I remember him doing kind of well vs Malone although his rebounding numbers were lower and that might explain how he ends up with only 11 rebounds a game (although 8 games as started compared to 15 from the bench...).

About all other things, we don't know what is true. I don't want to make Krause the villain but he was the one that said some wrong things. And I doubt that we will ever see Michael Jordan, Phil Jackson (that refused a contract to stay) or even Pippen (that wanted out, even if, in the end, Bulls made everything they could for him - sign and trade for Rockets for nothing when he probably wouldn't get that money from a contender and we could have gotten a better trade for him or even signing him at the end of the career).

For me, one thing is for sure: it seems that Kukoc defended Krause outside of the documentary and maybe all role players, staff and so on would have made everything to stay on the team and defend the title. Jordan, from what he said the previous here, I would say that it is likely that he would have stayed if Phil and Pippen stayed. So... I don't know but I would love to see Phil and Pippen (and even Jordan) saying the truth about the breakup... and we might have that on the final episodes.

I also keep reminding people that the Boston fall was still in people's mind and they could not see the longevity of guys starting to grow that much after so little time. And that might have been a factor for Krause to want to start rebuilding (mainly after Pippen's injury) and others to see that it was over.

[Friend_Of_Haley]

I love watching all this old Bulls footage but this is not a great documentary.

The timeline is pretty scattershot and the transitions dont really make sense.

Also, its very onesided. We haven't heard anything about how Phil wanted to leave anyway or how Rodman was physically through or how MJ was burnt out. It's all just Krause the (dead) villain. It's great to have a simple bad guy for a compelling narrative, but it's not accurate.

I'm hoping the narrative continues to develop. About 40% of the way through and its been a lot focused on backstories and is a little more than halfway through the regular season timeline wise.

If they do something like;
Episode 5 and 6 - continued backstories and rest of regular season + Rd 1 + 2 PO
Episode 7 and 8 - Pacers ECF series (really deserves its own full episode) / Start of Jazz series
Episode 9 and 10 - Completion of Jazz series and summer of 1998 fallout
You could leave 1/2 - 1 episode that deals with the fallout and final breakup, and maybe some nuance gets introduced there.

[Jimako10]

My favorite part was Phil Jackson on acid roaming LA thinking he's a lion......

[Big Pippen]

Isaiah Thomas is still a phony and MJ is justified in saying so.

Horace Grant should be in the WWE, huge guy!

Are BJ and Wilbon sitting in the same make and model of leather chair?

How strange that MJ was literally the one that went and brought Dennis back from Vegas, as Carmen Electra hid naked behind a couch. There was no team employee that could have done this? Perhaps MJ wanted a night in Vegas himself?

- Pippen deserved some of the criticism he got, but not for the migraine game. He gave it all he had, not his fault his head was throbbing and vision impaired. I get migraines, and go to work, and my quality plummets.

- Never been a huge fan of MJ the person. This doc is helping me understand and like him more.

- I agree the storyboarding/editing has been poor. While the footage has been awesome

- Phil Jackson walks and moves like the nba players in space jam after the monstars have stolen their talent

[Bulliever2020]

Jerry dance is clearly from 91.

No way they were that happy after getting there for the 6th time.