Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer

[ShouldaPaidBG]

Didn't shoot well but got 9 free throws to balance it out. He's big enough to keep attacking the rim throughout the game. And good enough at passing to play off it.

Give him a center that can jump please for the love of god.

[WesPeace]

6-14 overall, 3-5 for 3pt, he wasnt shooting bad..

[Stratmaster]

Is it possible we haven't seen the best of Coby White? He just turned 25 a couple of weeks ago, so just hitting his prime. 19 pts/gm last season, 18 pts/gm this season. I've been guilty of writing him off as a very good sixth man. Fell into the trap of thinking his physicals attributes mean he'll never be an average defender, which is not true. He's listed at 6'5", 195 lbs. Room to get stronger, more active defensively. He's a good shooter and a fair ballhandler who could get still get stronger at that and attacking. I keep seeing White as that skinny smiling kid we drafted, maybe it's just me. With Zach gone and him locking down the starting SG spot, there could be some forced growth there.

He's also played PG next to Zach most of his career. So he's guarding and trying to get past the quickest, best ball handling, most steals position in the league. Way more great PG's now than SG's. His average PG speed, quickness, ballhandling look much better at SG. He'll need to get stronger to guard SG's but they won't be just blowing by him because they're quicker.

Think most of us agree his best position is SG, which is really not where he's spent most of his time.

Anythings possible, but I doubt it. I mean, what's he waiting for? Coby's issue is consistency. Oh, and defense. And on coyrt IQ. At 22 you could make a case that would improve. But at 25, it's actually gotten worse.

[sco]

With the aid of a little ai magic (deepseek - so blame the chinese if the numbers are wrong)

January + February Averages:
Minutes 30.6
Points 13.6
Field Goals 4.9-10.8 (45.4%)
3-Pointers 1.7-4.2 (40.3%)
Free Throws 2.1-2.7 (77.8%)
Rebounds 6.8
Assists 5.2
Blocks 0.9
Steals 1.3
Personal Fouls 2.1
Turnovers 2.6

Last Month Averages:
Minutes 31.6
Points 15.3
Field Goals 5.5-11.2 (49.3%)
3-Pointers 1.9-4.7 (41.1%)
Free Throws 2.3-3.0 (77.8%)
Rebounds 6.6
Assists 5.6
Blocks 0.8
Steals 1.2
Personal Fouls 2.0
Turnovers 2.7

Again, I won't let myself be fooled by FebruLauri mirages, but if he keeps that up for the rest of the season, I'd be fine paying the man. I still think we won't be paying much over $20M because we really just need to tell the league we'll match offers. I think 5/$100 with the last year being a team option might be a good deal. By the end of that contract, his contract may be close to MLE. Ideally, we can structure it as a declining deal.

[Infinity2152]

It's kind of hard to understand why people value him so low. He hasn't just played well these last two games, he's played well most of 2025. Even more so now that he's leading the offense. If he's better than he is right now, looking at 20+ pts, 7, and 7 with starter minutes and a lead role in a year or two. You don't let other team's steal your 22 year old restricted free agents that can put up 20, 7, and 7. If you have to match a high price, guess what? That's the market price, defined as the maximum price an eligible purchaser will pay for a product.

We should have negotiated at that $30 mill, tried to lock him in in the $20's. He keeps playing like this, he's getting some very good offers. It won't be $15-$20 mill AAV. Unless Nets don't like him at all, and nobody else clears enough space to make an offer. Which is a possibility. But we can't let him leave. If he was in the draft this year, he'd be front runner for ROY, and that includes Flagg.

He’s played well recently but let’s not forget he has disappeared in plenty of games and he’s averaging 12ppg on the season in his 4th year.

We all hope he keeps progressing and we have a piece to build with. We have 25 games to see. If they are like the last 3 he’s a keeper. If they are a mixed bag he will probably have to take a cheaper deal or go get an offer.

He's averaging 12 pts on the year. He was starting with Coby, Lavine and Vuc. How many shots per game are left with that starting line-up? Three other guys going for at least 20 every night. He's brand new, he's going to come in putting up 20 shots like Lamelo? He also averages 7.3 rebounds and 6.4 assists. Does 15 pts and 3.5 assists look better? You can see his scoring going up with more shot opportunities. Lavine at 17 FGA per game, Vuc at 15, and Coby at 14.

Have always said the best thing for a team is when a RFA has a "bad" fourth year. Worst is when he has a great one all season. That pushes his price up for people who judge people with recency bias. He averaged 17 pts, 8 rebounds and 6 assists in 31 minutes his second year with the Thunder. He's only up to 29 minutes average so far, he was like the fourth option. He did 17, 8 and 6 at 20 years old, doesn't it make sense he'll be better at 25? He's consistently been a triple double threat his whole career with starter minutes.

Can't judge whether someone's a keeper over 20 games when the team is tanking, lol! Whether he plays great over the next 30 games or not doesn't really show how he'll be over the next 4 years of a contract.

[sco]

It's kind of hard to understand why people value him so low. He hasn't just played well these last two games, he's played well most of 2025. Even more so now that he's leading the offense. If he's better than he is right now, looking at 20+ pts, 7, and 7 with starter minutes and a lead role in a year or two. You don't let other team's steal your 22 year old restricted free agents that can put up 20, 7, and 7. If you have to match a high price, guess what? That's the market price, defined as the maximum price an eligible purchaser will pay for a product.

We should have negotiated at that $30 mill, tried to lock him in in the $20's. He keeps playing like this, he's getting some very good offers. It won't be $15-$20 mill AAV. Unless Nets don't like him at all, and nobody else clears enough space to make an offer. Which is a possibility. But we can't let him leave. If he was in the draft this year, he'd be front runner for ROY, and that includes Flagg.

He’s played well recently but let’s not forget he has disappeared in plenty of games and he’s averaging 12ppg on the season in his 4th year.

We all hope he keeps progressing and we have a piece to build with. We have 25 games to see. If they are like the last 3 he’s a keeper. If they are a mixed bag he will probably have to take a cheaper deal or go get an offer.

He's averaging 12 pts on the year. He was starting with Coby, Lavine and Vuc. How many shots per game are left with that starting line-up? Three other guys going for at least 20 every night. He's brand new, he's going to come in putting up 20 shots like Lamelo? He also averages 7.3 rebounds and 6.4 assists. Does 15 pts and 3.5 assists look better? You can see his scoring going up with more shot opportunities.

Have always said the best thing for a team is when a RFA has a "bad" fourth year. Worst is when he has a great one all season. That pushes his price up for people who judge people with recency bias. He averaged 17 pts, 8 rebounds and 6 assists in 31 minutes his second year with the Thunder. He's only up to 29 minutes average so far, he was like the fourth option.

Can't judge whether someone's a keeper over 20 games when the team is tanking, lol! Whether he plays great over the next 30 games or not doesn't really show how he'll be over the next 4 years of a contract.

I'm with you on evaluating guys off of short stints of success. That said, the flipside is true. RFA's who are bad in their last season often remain bad. Of the two, I'd prefer paying for a stretch of good play than not paying for a season of bad play.

The good news is that IMO the range of pay is somewhere between MLE (6th man) and let's say $25M which is 3rd option. We aren't maxing him out.

[Infinity2152]

He’s played well recently but let’s not forget he has disappeared in plenty of games and he’s averaging 12ppg on the season in his 4th year.

We all hope he keeps progressing and we have a piece to build with. We have 25 games to see. If they are like the last 3 he’s a keeper. If they are a mixed bag he will probably have to take a cheaper deal or go get an offer.

He's averaging 12 pts on the year. He was starting with Coby, Lavine and Vuc. How many shots per game are left with that starting line-up? Three other guys going for at least 20 every night. He's brand new, he's going to come in putting up 20 shots like Lamelo? He also averages 7.3 rebounds and 6.4 assists. Does 15 pts and 3.5 assists look better? You can see his scoring going up with more shot opportunities.

Have always said the best thing for a team is when a RFA has a "bad" fourth year. Worst is when he has a great one all season. That pushes his price up for people who judge people with recency bias. He averaged 17 pts, 8 rebounds and 6 assists in 31 minutes his second year with the Thunder. He's only up to 29 minutes average so far, he was like the fourth option.

Can't judge whether someone's a keeper over 20 games when the team is tanking, lol! Whether he plays great over the next 30 games or not doesn't really show how he'll be over the next 4 years of a contract.

I'm with you on evaluating guys off of short stints of success. That said, the flipside is true. RFA's who are bad in their last season often remain bad. Of the two, I'd prefer paying for a stretch of good play than not paying for a season of bad play.

The good news is that IMO the range of pay is somewhere between MLE (6th man) and let's say $25M which is 3rd option. We aren't maxing him out.

If you're going to base it mostly on their last season, shouldn't you REALLY pay attention to the other immediate factors though?

1. 21 year old guy joining brand new team that put everybody on the trade block.
2. Starting with three scorers who don't play much defense.
3. First time ever really being the lead guard, so you can't just fit in. New guy is immediately a leader on offense.

Just knowing those facts and nothing else, would you expect that player to start the season better or end it better? Or Giddey to be better his first half-season with the Bulls with new players and system, vs last half of last season with a familiar system and players?

Agree with the stretch to show potential in some ways. For instance, if a player puts up 17, 8 and 6 for a year at 20, that's the FLOOR of his potential. He can at least be as good as he's already been. The expectation is a 21 year old will get better, it's pretty impossible not to barring injury. Whether the numbers show it or not, every NBA player should be better at 25 than they were at 20, even if they do nothing extra outside team practices and play in hundreds of games over those years.

Whether he reaches consistently reaches the floor of his potential is TBA, but nobody can say the best he can be is a bench player, when he's already put up great starter numbers for a whole season. 17, 8 and 6 isn't even the cap on his potential, he did that at 20 shooting worse than he is now, and with worse defense. In 31 minutes.

100% agree we're not maxing him out. So if his range is $15-$25 mill, you don't want to lose him even at $30 mill imo. That's a 5 mill difference in cap from what you were prepared to pay. Moneyball doesn't work in the NBA. If he was 30, fine, let him go, but he perfectly fits what we're doing right now in terms of accumulating young talent.

Hell, his per 36 this year, which is reasonable full time starter minutes: 16 pts, 8 assists, 9 rebounds. Zach plays that much, on this team Giddey should be getting that many minutes too.

[2weekswithpay]

It's kind of hard to understand why people value him so low. He hasn't just played well these last two games, he's played well most of 2025. Even more so now that he's leading the offense. If he's better than he is right now, looking at 20+ pts, 7, and 7 with starter minutes and a lead role in a year or two. You don't let other team's steal your 22 year old restricted free agents that can put up 20, 7, and 7. If you have to match a high price, guess what? That's the market price, defined as the maximum price an eligible purchaser will pay for a product.

We should have negotiated at that $30 mill, tried to lock him in in the $20's. He keeps playing like this, he's getting some very good offers. It won't be $15-$20 mill AAV. Unless Nets don't like him at all, and nobody else clears enough space to make an offer. Which is a possibility. But we can't let him leave. If he was in the draft this year, he'd be front runner for ROY, and that includes Flagg.

Just my opinion but I value players with scalable skills. Do you have skills that fit with good offenses/defense and next to good teammates? With Giddey, my answer before the season was no and it hasn't changed. He still doesn't provide enough off-ball scoring or defense and he's not a high level creator with the ball. I already knew he could fill up the boxscore.

Jalen Johnson, who was also drafted in 2021, only got 30M AAV, and Johnson is clearly a better player. If someone wants to offer Giddey 30M, let them.

[Infinity2152]

It's kind of hard to understand why people value him so low. He hasn't just played well these last two games, he's played well most of 2025. Even more so now that he's leading the offense. If he's better than he is right now, looking at 20+ pts, 7, and 7 with starter minutes and a lead role in a year or two. You don't let other team's steal your 22 year old restricted free agents that can put up 20, 7, and 7. If you have to match a high price, guess what? That's the market price, defined as the maximum price an eligible purchaser will pay for a product.

We should have negotiated at that $30 mill, tried to lock him in in the $20's. He keeps playing like this, he's getting some very good offers. It won't be $15-$20 mill AAV. Unless Nets don't like him at all, and nobody else clears enough space to make an offer. Which is a possibility. But we can't let him leave. If he was in the draft this year, he'd be front runner for ROY, and that includes Flagg.

Just my opinion but I value players with scalable skills. Do you have skills that fit with good offenses/defense and next to good teammates? With Giddey, my answer before the season was no and it hasn't changed. He still doesn't provide enough off-ball scoring or defense and he's not a high level creator with the ball. I already knew he could fill up the boxscore.

Jalen Johnson, who was also drafted in 2021, only got 30M AAV, and Johnson is clearly a better player. If someone wants to offer Giddey 30M, let them.

Would argue that point guard is the last position that requires off ball scoring, since they're on ball to start the offense. You're quibbling over how he scores when he just had 27. Quibbling over creator with the ball when he averages 7 assists. He scored 17pts a game for an entire season, but he doesn't score how you want him to. He doesn't just fill up the box scores, he's scoring at a good NBA level and with decent efficiency this year. I'd worry about off ball scoring with my SG and forwards, assists with my PG. The rebounding is a huge plus that's not even being factored in. Although it's one of the biggest complaints about Pat, lmao!

Jalen Johnson would probably be considered to be outplaying that contract. He could have gotten more and still be worth it. He's putting up 19pt, 10 rebounds and 5 assists and playing 36 minutes, those are max numbers, or near max. He's also worse on ball and is a far worse shot creator than Giddey. Barely better at rebounding. Worse shooter. He's clearly better at what, defense? Shot 23% and 29% from three 2 of 3 years, and 31% now in his fourth.

Scottie Barnes signed a 5 yr/$224 mill, $44 mill AAV contract. Also drafted in 2021.

This season:
Scottie Barnes 20pts, 8 rebounds, 6 assists on 27% 3pt shooting in 35 minutes. 1.4 steals, 1.1 blocks. $44 mill
Jalen Johnson 19, 10 and 5 on 31% three point shooting in 36 minutes.1.6 steals, 1.0 blocks $30 mill
Giddey per 36: 16, 9 and 8 on 36% three point shooting. 1.4 steals, .8 blocks ($20 mill????)

His skills pretty clearly fit with a good offenses/defenses and next to good teammates. He was pretty successful starting on OKC for 3 years with a bunch of very young guys. And OKC was successful starting him. Benched him for two games and got knocked out of the playoff by a team they were 2-2 with.

[2weekswithpay]

It's kind of hard to understand why people value him so low. He hasn't just played well these last two games, he's played well most of 2025. Even more so now that he's leading the offense. If he's better than he is right now, looking at 20+ pts, 7, and 7 with starter minutes and a lead role in a year or two. You don't let other team's steal your 22 year old restricted free agents that can put up 20, 7, and 7. If you have to match a high price, guess what? That's the market price, defined as the maximum price an eligible purchaser will pay for a product.

We should have negotiated at that $30 mill, tried to lock him in in the $20's. He keeps playing like this, he's getting some very good offers. It won't be $15-$20 mill AAV. Unless Nets don't like him at all, and nobody else clears enough space to make an offer. Which is a possibility. But we can't let him leave. If he was in the draft this year, he'd be front runner for ROY, and that includes Flagg.

Just my opinion but I value players with scalable skills. Do you have skills that fit with good offenses/defense and next to good teammates? With Giddey, my answer before the season was no and it hasn't changed. He still doesn't provide enough off-ball scoring or defense and he's not a high level creator with the ball. I already knew he could fill up the boxscore.

Jalen Johnson, who was also drafted in 2021, only got 30M AAV, and Johnson is clearly a better player. If someone wants to offer Giddey 30M, let them.

Would argue that point guard is the last position that requires off ball scoring, since they're on ball to start the offense. You're quibbling over how he scores when he just had 27. Quibbling over creator with the ball when he averages 7 assists. He scored 17pts a game for an entire season, but he doesn't score how you want him too. He doesn't just fill up the box scores, he's scoring at a good NBA level and with decent efficiency this year. I'd worry about off ball scoring with my SG and forwards, assists with my PG. The rebounding is a huge plus that's not even being factored in. Although it's one of the biggest complaints about Pat, lmao!

Jalen Johnson would probably be considered to be outplaying that contract. He could have gotten more and still be worth it. He's putting up 19pt, 10 rebounds and 5 assists and playing 36 minutes, those are max numbers, or near max.

Scottie Barnes signed a 5 yr/$224 mill, $44 mill AAV contract. Also drafted in 2021.

His stats this season are 20pts, 8 rebounds, 6 assists on 27% 3pt shooting in 35 minutes.
Jalen Johnson 19, 10 and 5 on 31% three point shooting in 36 minutes
Giddey per 36: 16, 9 and 8 on 36% three point shooting.

If you're a great creator then yes but Giddey isn't a great creator. He's not Luka, Trae, or even Ja. In January, Giddey averaged 10ppg on 52% TS. You evaluate the entire season, not just the parts you want to look at. His assist numbers have always been good, everyone knows he can pass. The year he scored 17ppg, he did so on efficiency that was well below league average and the Thunder's offense was 7 points better with him off the floor. His efficiency is still below average this season.

If Giddey is a good offensive player? Why is the Bulls' offense slightly better without him?

What Jalen Johnson did last season is better than what Giddey is doing right now and he only got 30M AAV.

[DuckIII]

Is it possible we haven't seen the best of Coby White? He just turned 25 a couple of weeks ago, so just hitting his prime. 19 pts/gm last season, 18 pts/gm this season. I've been guilty of writing him off as a very good sixth man. Fell into the trap of thinking his physicals attributes mean he'll never be an average defender, which is not true. He's listed at 6'5", 195 lbs. Room to get stronger, more active defensively. He's a good shooter and a fair ballhandler who could get still get stronger at that and attacking. I keep seeing White as that skinny smiling kid we drafted, maybe it's just me. With Zach gone and him locking down the starting SG spot, there could be some forced growth there.

He's also played PG next to Zach most of his career. So he's guarding and trying to get past the quickest, best ball handling, most steals position in the league. Way more great PG's now than SG's. His average PG speed, quickness, ballhandling look much better at SG. He'll need to get stronger to guard SG's but they won't be just blowing by him because they're quicker.

Think most of us agree his best position is SG, which is really not where he's spent most of his time.

Anythings possible, but I doubt it. I mean, what's he waiting for? Coby's issue is consistency. Oh, and defense. And on coyrt IQ. At 22 you could make a case that would improve. But at 25, it's actually gotten worse.

He can, and I would assume will, bounce back from this year. But the question was have we seen the best of him and I agree with you that I think it’s pretty likely we have. Last year.

I believe he can and will be that guy again. Then the question becomes what is that worth to a rebuilding team like us? To me the answer is, not much. Not as much as it would be worth to a win now team looking for bench scoring pop.

Broken record from me, but for a team in our position we can’t pay both Coby and Ayo and, given that, to me the easy answer is Ayo. He has a more diverse skill set, is a two way player, and will be cheaper because contractually the league will value Coby’s scoring above Ayo’s more “jack of all trades” game.

[Infinity2152]

Just my opinion but I value players with scalable skills. Do you have skills that fit with good offenses/defense and next to good teammates? With Giddey, my answer before the season was no and it hasn't changed. He still doesn't provide enough off-ball scoring or defense and he's not a high level creator with the ball. I already knew he could fill up the boxscore.

Jalen Johnson, who was also drafted in 2021, only got 30M AAV, and Johnson is clearly a better player. If someone wants to offer Giddey 30M, let them.

Would argue that point guard is the last position that requires off ball scoring, since they're on ball to start the offense. You're quibbling over how he scores when he just had 27. Quibbling over creator with the ball when he averages 7 assists. He scored 17pts a game for an entire season, but he doesn't score how you want him too. He doesn't just fill up the box scores, he's scoring at a good NBA level and with decent efficiency this year. I'd worry about off ball scoring with my SG and forwards, assists with my PG. The rebounding is a huge plus that's not even being factored in. Although it's one of the biggest complaints about Pat, lmao!

Jalen Johnson would probably be considered to be outplaying that contract. He could have gotten more and still be worth it. He's putting up 19pt, 10 rebounds and 5 assists and playing 36 minutes, those are max numbers, or near max.

Scottie Barnes signed a 5 yr/$224 mill, $44 mill AAV contract. Also drafted in 2021.

His stats this season are 20pts, 8 rebounds, 6 assists on 27% 3pt shooting in 35 minutes.
Jalen Johnson 19, 10 and 5 on 31% three point shooting in 36 minutes
Giddey per 36: 16, 9 and 8 on 36% three point shooting.

If you're a great creator then yes but Giddey isn't a great creator. He's not Luka, Trae, or even Ja. In January, Giddey averaged 10ppg on 52% TS. You evaluate the entire season, not just the parts you want to look at. His assist numbers have always been good, everyone knows he can pass. The year he scored 17ppg, he did so on efficiency that was well below league average and the Thunder's offense was 7 points better with him off the floor. His efficiency is still below average this season.

If Giddey is a good offensive player? Why is the Bulls' offense slightly better without him?

What Jalen Johnson did last season is better than what Giddey is doing right now and he only got 30M AAV.

So it's purely coincidence that Lavine and Vuc are having lights out shooting years, better than last year? Giddey hasn't affect that at all? The offense is not moving faster and more fluidly than last year?

Why a team does better when you sit is not all about the player. Who replaces him the most, Lonzo Ball?

Jalen Johnson last year did 16 pt, 9 rebounds and 3.6 assists in 34 minutes at 36% 3pt. The only season he shot above 31% from three, by the way, including this season. Giddey's per 36 this year is 16, 9 and 8 with 36% shooting. Roughly the same blocks and steals. How is what Jalen Johnson did better?

He doesn't have to be better at creating than Luka, Tra or Ja. They're getting way more than $30 mill in free agency. Is he a better creator than Jalen Johnson at $30 mill? A better shooter? Similar level rebounder? We are talking about the guy that's out for the rest of the season, giving them nothing, right? Who also only played 22 games his first season? Giddey's never played less than 54.

A few of us think Giddey would be best at PF. His numbers look remarkably similar to Johnson's except double the assists.

The year he scored 17 on low efficiency he was 20. So you don't think he's gotten any more efficient, nor will he get more efficient in the last two years or the next 4, the probable length of his next contract?

If you want to evaluate over the whole season, not just January (the part you want to look at), his TS% is 55.1. Right around PG average.

[DuckIII]

As for Giddey, I feel better about him than I did when I started this thread, but it’s still going to be about $ for me. If we overpay him, I’d prefer to move on from both Coby and Ayo unless Ayo’s deal would be incredibly reasonable.

[Infinity2152]

As for Giddey, I feel better about him than I did when I started this thread, but it’s still going to be about $ for me. If we overpay him, I’d prefer to move on from both Coby and Ayo unless Ayo’s deal would be incredibly reasonable.

Actually think Ayo's contract may be incredibly reasonable. He's at his lowest value, has been here his whole career, and is a local product. He probably won't get what Ball got, 2yrs/$20 mill at this point. Might be able to lock him in for Jevon Carter money, or around what he's getting now. Is that reasonable?

[DuckIII]

A few of us think Giddey would be best at PF. His numbers look remarkably similar to Johnson's except double the assists.

PF? Who is “a few of us”? You and the family of mice in your pocket?

I’m kidding. I lean much further to your general defense of Giddey’s offense than I do the more negative opinions. But he’s a point guard. You can hide him defensively on a wing who can’t score well if you can find one. But he certainly can’t guard 4s and if he were a 4 on offense then what you really mean is you run a 4 wing offense with one big.

[Infinity2152]

A few of us think Giddey would be best at PF. His numbers look remarkably similar to Johnson's except double the assists.

PF? Who is “a few of us”? You and the family of mice in your pocket?

I’m kidding. I lean much further to your general defense of Giddey’s offense than I do the more negative opinions. But he’s a point guard. You can hide him defensively on a wing who can’t score well if you can find one. But he certainly can’t guard 4s and if he were a 4 on offense then what you really mean is you run a 4 wing offense with one big.

You can go back through all the posts if you want to know who else thinks he could be a PF, I'm not going to do it. There's a long conversation in one of these threads from a week or two ago. He hasn't guarded PG's his whole career. He probably guarded forwards much of the time on OKC, and he's not guarding guards when he's on the floor with Coby and Zach. When your lineup is Coby, Zach, Giddey, Williams, Vuc, he's probably guarding a forward. Even more so when Pat is out and Ball is on the floor. Is there any realistic Bulls lineup where Giddey is guarding the PG? He's usually our second tallest player on the court.

Have said several times he'd need to add weight and strength to play PF. Way easier than adding lateral speed. Every adult male working out 3-4 times a week will be stronger after 4 years. They won't all be faster. Think KD couldn't do one bench press when he was drafted.

I agree he's slow for a PG. He's probably average speed for a PF. His height advantage at PG doesn't mean much because he doesn't post up. If we're playing the Hornets or Denver say. I'd rather have him guarding PJ Washington or Aaron Gordon than Lamelo or Jamal Murray, even if they push him around some. Most PF's nowadays are shooting, they're not super physical. Easier to stay with Coby White or Patrick Williams?

According to half the room, he can't guard ANY position, lmao! Well, way more teams have PG's going for 30 and 40 pts than PF's. Way more dangerous not to be able to stop POA attack, vs guarding a forward who's waiting for the ball.

Kinda view SF and PF as interchangeable. So playing with Matas or Pat say, he would be either/or. They get to guard the best offensive forward. Don't think he's going to be a lock down defender at any position.

We've been running a 4 wing offense with one big for years. Lot's of teams do. Would you consider Tatum a big? Genuinely asking, or what's your view of the modern PF? A guy like Giddey, 5-10lbs heavier, stronger, smarter, same ball skills, rebounding and shooting at PF? Giddey in a year or two?

[League Circles]

It's kind of hard to understand why people value him so low. He hasn't just played well these last two games, he's played well most of 2025. Even more so now that he's leading the offense. If he's better than he is right now, looking at 20+ pts, 7, and 7 with starter minutes and a lead role in a year or two. You don't let other team's steal your 22 year old restricted free agents that can put up 20, 7, and 7. If you have to match a high price, guess what? That's the market price, defined as the maximum price an eligible purchaser will pay for a product.

We should have negotiated at that $30 mill, tried to lock him in in the $20's. He keeps playing like this, he's getting some very good offers. It won't be $15-$20 mill AAV. Unless Nets don't like him at all, and nobody else clears enough space to make an offer. Which is a possibility. But we can't let him leave. If he was in the draft this year, he'd be front runner for ROY, and that includes Flagg.

He’s played well recently but let’s not forget he has disappeared in plenty of games and he’s averaging 12ppg on the season in his 4th year.

We all hope he keeps progressing and we have a piece to build with. We have 25 games to see. If they are like the last 3 he’s a keeper. If they are a mixed bag he will probably have to take a cheaper deal or go get an offer.

He's averaging 12 pts on the year. He was starting with Coby, Lavine and Vuc. How many shots per game are left with that starting line-up? Three other guys going for at least 20 every night. He's brand new, he's going to come in putting up 20 shots like Lamelo? He also averages 7.3 rebounds and 6.4 assists. Does 15 pts and 3.5 assists look better? You can see his scoring going up with more shot opportunities. Lavine at 17 FGA per game, Vuc at 15, and Coby at 14.

Have always said the best thing for a team is when a RFA has a "bad" fourth year. Worst is when he has a great one all season. That pushes his price up for people who judge people with recency bias. He averaged 17 pts, 8 rebounds and 6 assists in 31 minutes his second year with the Thunder. He's only up to 29 minutes average so far, he was like the fourth option. He did 17, 8 and 6 at 20 years old, doesn't it make sense he'll be better at 25? He's consistently been a triple double threat his whole career with starter minutes.

Can't judge whether someone's a keeper over 20 games when the team is tanking, lol! Whether he plays great over the next 30 games or not doesn't really show how he'll be over the next 4 years of a contract.

When you look at his per 100 possessions numbers they are very consistent over his 4 year career. He's a below average scorer. He's been a 4th option because he hasn't been a better scorer than that in his career. His volume is down from his career average and he's still below average in efficiency.

[Infinity2152]

He’s played well recently but let’s not forget he has disappeared in plenty of games and he’s averaging 12ppg on the season in his 4th year.

We all hope he keeps progressing and we have a piece to build with. We have 25 games to see. If they are like the last 3 he’s a keeper. If they are a mixed bag he will probably have to take a cheaper deal or go get an offer.

He's averaging 12 pts on the year. He was starting with Coby, Lavine and Vuc. How many shots per game are left with that starting line-up? Three other guys going for at least 20 every night. He's brand new, he's going to come in putting up 20 shots like Lamelo? He also averages 7.3 rebounds and 6.4 assists. Does 15 pts and 3.5 assists look better? You can see his scoring going up with more shot opportunities. Lavine at 17 FGA per game, Vuc at 15, and Coby at 14.

Have always said the best thing for a team is when a RFA has a "bad" fourth year. Worst is when he has a great one all season. That pushes his price up for people who judge people with recency bias. He averaged 17 pts, 8 rebounds and 6 assists in 31 minutes his second year with the Thunder. He's only up to 29 minutes average so far, he was like the fourth option. He did 17, 8 and 6 at 20 years old, doesn't it make sense he'll be better at 25? He's consistently been a triple double threat his whole career with starter minutes.

Can't judge whether someone's a keeper over 20 games when the team is tanking, lol! Whether he plays great over the next 30 games or not doesn't really show how he'll be over the next 4 years of a contract.

When you look at his per 100 possessions numbers they are very consistent over his 4 year career. He's a below average scorer. He's been a 4th option because he hasn't been a better scorer than that in his career. His volume is down from his career average and he's still below average in efficiency.

There are 5 starters. What's wrong with being the third or fourth option scorer, if you're leading the team in assists and second in rebounds? Does he have to be best or second best at everything?

Per 100 possessions:
Year 1 26.3% from 3
Year 2 32.5% from 3
Year 3 33.7% from 3
Year 4 36.1% from 3
Very consistent improvement, with increased volume. He's shooting 3's at his highest rate per 100 possessions.

His TS% is 55.1 this year. According to StatMuse, PG's have a TS% of 55.7% this year. That's what you're calling below average? Versus his above average assists and rebounds?

[League Circles]

He's averaging 12 pts on the year. He was starting with Coby, Lavine and Vuc. How many shots per game are left with that starting line-up? Three other guys going for at least 20 every night. He's brand new, he's going to come in putting up 20 shots like Lamelo? He also averages 7.3 rebounds and 6.4 assists. Does 15 pts and 3.5 assists look better? You can see his scoring going up with more shot opportunities. Lavine at 17 FGA per game, Vuc at 15, and Coby at 14.

Have always said the best thing for a team is when a RFA has a "bad" fourth year. Worst is when he has a great one all season. That pushes his price up for people who judge people with recency bias. He averaged 17 pts, 8 rebounds and 6 assists in 31 minutes his second year with the Thunder. He's only up to 29 minutes average so far, he was like the fourth option. He did 17, 8 and 6 at 20 years old, doesn't it make sense he'll be better at 25? He's consistently been a triple double threat his whole career with starter minutes.

Can't judge whether someone's a keeper over 20 games when the team is tanking, lol! Whether he plays great over the next 30 games or not doesn't really show how he'll be over the next 4 years of a contract.

When you look at his per 100 possessions numbers they are very consistent over his 4 year career. He's a below average scorer. He's been a 4th option because he hasn't been a better scorer than that in his career. His volume is down from his career average and he's still below average in efficiency.

There are 5 starters. What's wrong with being the third or fourth option scorer, if you're leading the team in assists and second in rebounds? Does he have to be best or second best at everything?

I don't think there are any signs that he's likely to ever be the 3rd best scorer on a good team. 4th, maybe. But even a 4th best scorer on a good team's starting unit should probably not be the 4th or 5th best defender, which he will definitely always be. I also doubt he will be the 2nd best rebounder on a good team. I expect Matas will probably surpass him for us next year.

[Infinity2152]

When you look at his per 100 possessions numbers they are very consistent over his 4 year career. He's a below average scorer. He's been a 4th option because he hasn't been a better scorer than that in his career. His volume is down from his career average and he's still below average in efficiency.

There are 5 starters. What's wrong with being the third or fourth option scorer, if you're leading the team in assists and second in rebounds? Does he have to be best or second best at everything?

I don't think there are any signs that he's likely to ever be the 3rd best scorer on a good team. 4th, maybe. But even a 4th best scorer on a good team's starting unit should probably not be the 4th or 5th best defender, which he will definitely always be. I also doubt he will be the 2nd best rebounder on a good team. I expect Matas will probably surpass him for us next year.

Your opinion is clear. I just happen to think you're wrong. The Thunder went 57-25 with him starting last year, playing 80 games. Year before they went 40-42 in the West with him starting. They didn't have Holgrem then and Jalen Williams was putting up 14 pts/gm. Giddey was the second leading scorer.

As far as Matas, his per 36 rebound numbers are 6.8. Giddey's per 36 is 9.1 and has never been lower than 8.9, his rookie year. By what possible metric would you expect Matas to become a better rebounder than Giddey? By next season? Are you expecting Giddey to be worse at absolutely everything after an offseason and a year with the team?

It's cool if we have different opinions.

I think what guys are saying he needs to be productive, great three point shooting, great defense, great penetrator, plus maintaining his rebounding and assists, that's not a $30 mill player. That unicorn is an automatic max guy. Probably super max. Giddey scoring 20 a game, flaming 3's with 7 assists and 8 rebounds? Locking down team's best player? All-Star. Matter of fact, since he's getting 36 minutes as a star, 22 pts, 8 assists, 9 rebounds. And second best defender and shooter on the team.

His per 36 numbers this season are astoundingly close to Jalen Johnson's contract year, who got $30 mill with injury history and weaker jumper, and Scottie Barnes, who got $44 mill.