Official Trade Thread - Part XXV

[jivelikenice]

Unfortunately, it's as close as we're going to get.

So this is best case? No chance at doing anything in FA? No chance at using Otto as a trade chip in the summer instead of now? No chance at luring a FA in the netx couple of years? Why exactly?

[fishercob]

Switching topics to something that was discussed heavily over the summer leading up to the draft -- Thaddeus Young.

I thought he could be our stretch four and that Doug Collins had stunted his development by telling him to stop shooting 3's.

I was right!

Thad is shooting 41% (14-34) on 3's. Small sample size, but I think he's certainly good enough to be a competent threat from downtown. We don't have the assets to get him, which is a shame. He'd be an awesome fit with our core.

[nate33]

nate, Kev, etc -- little help on this?

Can't we re-sign Gortat using Bird Rights, effectively "renounce" our cap space and use the full MLE instead? This assumes we have added another player via trade before this year's deadline -- in this example, Brandon Bass for Booker/Seraphin.

fishercob has it right. There's no reason that we can't resign Gortat (and Ariza) with Bird Rights and then go use the MLE. Well, there is one reason: the luxtax. But we should have some breathing room before we bump up against it.

Would you do this if there was a remote chance at getting KD in 2016?

We can't get Durant anyway if we resign Gortat.

[fishercob]

fishercob has it right. There's no reason that we can't resign Gortat (and Ariza) with Bird Rights and then go use the MLE. Well, there is one reason: the luxtax. But we should have some breathing room before we bump up against it.

Would you do this if there was a remote chance at getting KD in 2016?

We can't get Durant anyway if we resign Gortat.

As an outright free agent. But S&T remains a possibility, albeit a remote one.

[nate33]

We're not close enough to contending to worry about tying up cap room for a NEED. Ilyasova is a last piece type of move for a contender. We're not there yet. Jumping the gun.

Unfortunately, it's as close as we're going to get.

Sadly, Ruzious is right.

This is about as good as we're going to get. Wall, Webster, Ariza and Gortat are essentially at their peak. Nene will decline as fast as Beal improves. We have no cap room and very little luxtax room assuming Ariza and Gortat are resigned. The only improvement left is what we get out of Porter (whether it comes from Porter himself, or from Porter the trade asset).

[nate33]

Would you do this if there was a remote chance at getting KD in 2016?

We can't get Durant anyway if we resign Gortat.

As an outright free agent. But S&T remains a possibility, albeit a remote one.

If S&T is a remote possibility, then it'll still be a remote possibility after acquiring Ilyasova. Indeed, it'll be even more likely because Durant will have a stronger desire to encourage a trade that brings him here.

[fishercob]

We can't get Durant anyway if we resign Gortat.

As an outright free agent. But S&T remains a possibility, albeit a remote one.

If S&T is a remote possibility, then it'll still be a remote possibility after acquiring Ilyasova. Indeed, it'll be even more likely because Durant will have a stronger desire to encourage a trade that brings him here.

Hey, I'm all for bringing in Ilyasova -- just not for Porter. From a Durant perspective, Porter figures to be a more valuable part of a S&T package than Ersan does. Porter, Nene's big expiring, a couple of future firsts. Why would they ever say no?

[Silvie Lysandra]

Wall's seriously peaked at 23? I kinda don't agree with that. A lot of the areas he's improved on have improved even while some of his stats are below their historical norms, such as his FTA per game and 2P% and his at the rim% is a bit down.

If he can keep shooting at around 33-35% from 3, and get his 2P% back to their normal levels, that's a superstar right there.

The question is - can we get future value from Nene and Ariza and maybe Gortat this year? (probably not with ernie as GM)

[nate33]

Wall's seriously peaked at 23? I kinda don't agree with that. A lot of the areas he's improved on have improved even while some of his stats are below their historical norms, such as his FTA per game and 2P% and his at the rim% is a bit down.

If he can keep shooting at around 33-35% from 3, and get his 2P% back to their normal levels, that's a superstar right there.

The question is - can we get future value from Nene and Ariza and maybe Gortat this year? (probably not with ernie as GM)

Most players reach something close to their peak by the 3rd or 4th year. Maybe Wall gets a little better, but I'm not expecting too much. I think he'll always be a somewhat low efficiency shooter from the field, and I'm not really all that optimistic that he's going to start drawing more free throws. Players tend to get less reckless as they get older, not more reckless. He'll probably show more improvement as a midrange shooter (offset by few forays into the paint), and he'll continue to get better at taking care of the ball.

I'm not hating. The Wall of this season (and March/April from last season) is a great player, perhaps top 15-20. Maybe he creeps into the top 10-15. That would give us a better star player than more than half the teams in the league. I just think his ceiling is more in the Westbrook or peak DWill range, not in the all time great John Stockton, Magic Johnson, or Chris Paul range.

[nuposse04]

I think most players peak around 26-27. By then they've refined most of what lack of talent they had when they entered the league and you rarely see guys add major components to their game unless they are prime hyperstars like LBJ and Kobe. Wall adding a CONSISTENT and improved jumper as he approaches his mid to late 20s galvanizes his game as spacing completely changes. The fact he should retain his elite athleticism until 30ish leads me to believe Wall should have 4-5 years where he can make a case to be a top 10 player IF his jumper continues to improve.

Ariza did the unthinkable to me in his late 20s, he improved his range...I don't think that sort of expectation is unreasonable with Wall. So I disagree with the notion Wall has peaked. The others...yeah. But their decline shouldn't be a while and I imagine we will see CONSIDERABLE improvement from Beal and Porter over the coming season. They seem too cerebral to just stagnate and become completely one dimensional players.

[Higga]

Wall is averaging 19/9 a game, if he does that every year for ~10 years that's pretty damn good. I mean that's nearly a double double a game. And I think he'll only get better. Guys don't really blossom until their mid to late 20s.

[Ruzious]

We can't get Durant anyway if we resign Gortat.

As an outright free agent. But S&T remains a possibility, albeit a remote one.

If S&T is a remote possibility, then it'll still be a remote possibility after acquiring Ilyasova. Indeed, it'll be even more likely because Durant will have a stronger desire to encourage a trade that brings him here.

And being in the East, anything can happen in the playoffs. If Lebron gets injured for the first time in his life, some team is going to sneak into the finals.

[barelyawake]

"This is about as good as we're going to get. Wall, Webster, Ariza and Gortat are essentially at their peak. Nene will decline as fast as Beal improves. We have no cap room and very little luxtax room assuming Ariza and Gortat are resigned. The only improvement left is what we get out of Porter (whether it comes from Porter himself, or from Porter the trade asset)."

And a good GM recognizes this, and then plans accordingly. If we had a real GM, you wouldn't be so fatalistic. I'm not saying we will make the right moves. But, they are there to be made. There are literally thousands of ways to go -- including trading Beal and Porter for a superstar, and expirings and future picks for a star big (and running Wall/MLE/superstar/draft/star big). I'm simply showing the vast number of possibilities.

[fishercob]

Beal, Porter, Vesely, Seraphin for Larry Sanders and Ilyasova?

[jivelikenice]

^Beal?!!! No way.

I'll listen to an Ilyasova scenario if it includes Sanders, but no way is Beal included in any trade.

Pure hypothetical....If we renounce our cap holds on everyone, is a re-sign Gortat/S&T for Monroe using Otto do-able under the cap. Assuming Monroe gets near max money, whats the most we'd have leftover to spend on Gortat?

[verbal8]

Beal, Porter, Vesely, Seraphin for Larry Sanders and Ilyasova?

It might not be a bad time to try to "buy low" on Sanders. I also think he should work very well with IIyasova however I don't think moving Beal is the way to do it.

If a 3rd team is wiling to give up future assets for Ariza(or Gortat) dealing them for Sanders and filler could be a good deal. I would love to get Ilyasova that way, but I think his value is a little higher.

[TGW]

Gortat and Porter for Monroe? Sheesh...that sounds terrible. Monroe is the next Al Jefferson...you don't give up a ton for that.

[jivelikenice]

Gortat and Porter for Monroe? Sheesh...that sounds terrible. Monroe is the next Al Jefferson...you don't give up a ton for that.

My bad. I can see how that could be read out of context and I would never trade Gortat and Otto for Monroe. I meant could we do two separate deals:

1. Trade Otto for Monroe in a S&T
2. Re-sign Gortat for ourselves

What's the maximum we'd have available to split between the two under that type of scenario. The starting lineup would be Wall/Beal/Webster/Monroe/Gortat with Nene playing off the bench.

[Wizardspride]

Beal, Porter, Vesely, Seraphin for Larry Sanders and Ilyasova?

"Heck No".

And that's the edited version.

[GeeWiz]

Until Porter returns, hopefully on Friday, we have no idea what his trade value is. Until then, lets just wait for him to return and see how he fits in. The best part about this is that they have no need to throw him into the fire yet. With Ariza and Webster both more than capable of filling the SF spot, we can ease him along and allow him to get used to the new speed of the NBA.

We aren't going to trade just yet, but maybe he becomes attractive trade bait once he proves himself. Until then, Otto is staying in Washington.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums