ImageImage

Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread

Moderators: BigSlam, yosemiteben, fatlever, JDR720, Diop

User avatar
MPM
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,323
And1: 3,853
Joined: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Mouse Town
     

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#721 » by MPM » Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:41 pm

BigSlam wrote:
MPM wrote:Interesting to note that almost every player on the roster apart from Hayward and Terry (who improved ever so slightly) had their defensive rating slip from last year to this - a stat that's supposedly not influenced by the play of teammates, and an obvious regression for the team. Make of it what you will - advanced stats are what they are and can-of-wormish - but when the entire roster seems disinterested in playing defense and performing worse from year to year, it most likely ain't (entirely) the roster's fault. Defense should be a non-negotiable with the coaching staff. As Bobby Marks said any evaluation of the Hornets in the offseason should start with our head coach.

And, yes, we need a center.

Did I read or hear somewhere that we were a top 5 or 6 defensive team since the ASB?

Or is that poppycock?


Who knows, but if you look at month-over-month team defensive rating since November, we had a middling couple of months in Jan/Feb sandwiched by shite months. For reference, ASG was late Feb. I swear though - numbers aside - I find it hard to believe any team could be as bad on defense as we were last night. That was eye-test awful.

Month, (league rank), defensive rating;

November (24th) 111.5
December (28th) 117.1
January (13th) 110.1
February (10th) 110.3
March (19th) 115.4
April (25th) 120.9
KembaWalker
RealGM
Posts: 11,955
And1: 13,582
Joined: Dec 22, 2011

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#722 » by KembaWalker » Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:18 pm

can anyone imagine JB getting a team pumped up in a postseason game like this
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/u4q0eb/coach_willie_green_pouring_his_heart_out_during/

lol
dude was probably in there talking about Bloodsport or Demolition Man
User avatar
Liver_Pooty
RealGM
Posts: 40,771
And1: 16,751
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
   

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#723 » by Liver_Pooty » Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:41 pm

KembaWalker wrote:can anyone imagine JB getting a team pumped up in a postseason game like this
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/u4q0eb/coach_willie_green_pouring_his_heart_out_during/

lol
dude was probably in there talking about Bloodsport or Demolition Man


Lol. Bloodsport is good stuff.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
Walt Cronkite
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 13,916
And1: 1,138
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Raleigh
 

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#724 » by Walt Cronkite » Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:00 pm

BLOODSPORT? As a Borrego motivator? More like GYMKATA everybody am I right?!
User avatar
SWedd523
RealGM
Posts: 13,509
And1: 6,464
Joined: Jul 07, 2009
   

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#725 » by SWedd523 » Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:34 pm

Don't you dare badmouth Bloodsport
Image
Vanderbilt_Grad
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,025
And1: 1,781
Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#726 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:12 pm

amcoolio wrote:Here are some names to think about (if our FO has the spine to make a change)

Quin Snyder - will be highly sought after if he and the Jazz part ways, especially by Lakers
Sam Cassell - hot assistant rising up the ranks and apparently a good leader, but no HC experience
Jerry Stackhouse - ditto
Juwan Howard - huge risk/reward
Mike D'Antoni - tends to flame out quickly but could be good here after always being in high profile stops
Mike Brown - I can't stand this guy but has coached good defenses
Frank Vogel - despite this season is known for defensive schemes
Phil Handy - darkhorse candidate in the mold of Borrego
Kenny Atkinson - wouldn't mind him
David Fizdale - seems like an ****
Jared Dudley - would be a shocker but is a very smart player and well liked
Adrian Griffin - would love this hire, Nurse lead assistant and the Raptors play hard
Alvin Gentry - no from me dawg
Mark Jackson - no thank you
Scott Brooks - no
Steve Clifford - lol
Dave Joerger - wouldn't mind one bit
Terry Stotts - possible but would prefer other candidates

There are only going to a few openings this offseason (Kings, Lakers are definite - Jazz, Hornets, Knicks are possible but not very likely) so now would be the time, there are a bunch of candidates looking and we'd get a good deal

My favorites from this list are Snyder, Cassell, Atkinson, Griffin, and Vogel


I’m not a James Borrego fan, and the play-ins have me especially down on him.

High level thoughts on what I would like in a coach

1. Needs to click with LaMelo – increasing wins now will mean little if LaMelo leaves because he doesn’t trust or like the new coach.

2. Needs to be someone who can win in the playoffs.

3. Needs to be someone who can improve the team’s defense, but still build an offense that takes advantage of LaMelo & Bridges.

Snyder would work, but I worry a bit about his ability to adjust in the playoffs.

Cassell – love his star power & think that LaMelo would respect Sam’s past accomplishments, but do you really want a HC who trained under Doc Rivers? I don’t.

Stackhouse – has the Jordan connection and how could I be against this guy?

Vogel – Feel a bit iffy about him after how this last Laker’s season went down, but like him better than Borrego.

Dudley – seems like it’s a bit too early for him to do a stint at HC. Would need a really experienced staff.

Atkinson – loved what he did early in Brooklyn, but they guy simply doesn’t have anything to indicate he can win in the playoffs.

Griffin – honestly don’t know enough about him, but I like what I’ve read. He’s been a lead assistant 3 times and has been on the staff for both a championship and a gold metal run.
My picks:
2020 Draft (3rd pick) - Tyrese Haliburton, Devin Vassell, or Onyeka Okongwu
2021 Draft (11th pick) - Moses Moody
User avatar
-Ian-
Analyst
Posts: 3,101
And1: 860
Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Location: Philippines
Contact:
 

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#727 » by -Ian- » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:47 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:
amcoolio wrote:Here are some names to think about (if our FO has the spine to make a change)

Quin Snyder - will be highly sought after if he and the Jazz part ways, especially by Lakers
Sam Cassell - hot assistant rising up the ranks and apparently a good leader, but no HC experience
Jerry Stackhouse - ditto
Juwan Howard - huge risk/reward
Mike D'Antoni - tends to flame out quickly but could be good here after always being in high profile stops
Mike Brown - I can't stand this guy but has coached good defenses
Frank Vogel - despite this season is known for defensive schemes
Phil Handy - darkhorse candidate in the mold of Borrego
Kenny Atkinson - wouldn't mind him
David Fizdale - seems like an ****
Jared Dudley - would be a shocker but is a very smart player and well liked
Adrian Griffin - would love this hire, Nurse lead assistant and the Raptors play hard
Alvin Gentry - no from me dawg
Mark Jackson - no thank you
Scott Brooks - no
Steve Clifford - lol
Dave Joerger - wouldn't mind one bit
Terry Stotts - possible but would prefer other candidates

There are only going to a few openings this offseason (Kings, Lakers are definite - Jazz, Hornets, Knicks are possible but not very likely) so now would be the time, there are a bunch of candidates looking and we'd get a good deal

My favorites from this list are Snyder, Cassell, Atkinson, Griffin, and Vogel


I’m not a James Borrego fan, and the play-ins have me especially down on him.

High level thoughts on what I would like in a coach

1. Needs to click with LaMelo – increasing wins now will mean little if LaMelo leaves because he doesn’t trust or like the new coach.

2. Needs to be someone who can win in the playoffs.

3. Needs to be someone who can improve the team’s defense, but still build an offense that takes advantage of LaMelo & Bridges.

Snyder would work, but I worry a bit about his ability to adjust in the playoffs.

Cassell – love his star power & think that LaMelo would respect Sam’s past accomplishments, but do you really want a HC who trained under Doc Rivers? I don’t.

Stackhouse – has the Jordan connection and how could I be against this guy?

Vogel – Feel a bit iffy about him after how this last Laker’s season went down, but like him better than Borrego.

Dudley – seems like it’s a bit too early for him to do a stint at HC. Would need a really experienced staff.

Atkinson – loved what he did early in Brooklyn, but they guy simply doesn’t have anything to indicate he can win in the playoffs.

Griffin – honestly don’t know enough about him, but I like what I’ve read. He’s been a lead assistant 3 times and has been on the staff for both a championship and a gold metal run.

I'm not sure about Stack. He had this to say about MJ and his time in Washington:

Jerry Stackhouse says he regrets time with Wizards, playing with Michael Jordan

"Honestly, I wish I never played in Washington and for a number of reasons," Stackhouse said. "I felt we were on our way in Detroit before I got traded there. It was really challenging to be able to be in a situation with an idol who at this particular point, I felt like I was a better player.

"Things were still being run through Michael Jordan," he continued. "[Head coach] Doug Collins, I love Doug, but I think that was an opportunity for him to make up for some ill moments that they may have had back in Chicago. So, pretty much everything that Michael wanted to do [we did]. We got off to a pretty good start and he didn't like the way the offense was running because it was running a little bit more through me. He wanted to get a little more isolations for him on the post, of course, so we had more isolations for him on the post. And it just kind of spiraled in a way that I didn't enjoy that season at all. The kind of picture I had in my mind of Michael Jordan and the reverence I had for him, I lost a little bit of it during the course of that year."


I'm willing to give JB one last chance. 2022-23 season is his make or break in this franchise.

But if we let him go this off-season, we better take a hard look (again) at David Vanterpool. He was a finalist in our coaching gig that ultimately went to JB. He's a high profile assistant for a while now and he comes highly recommended — Lillard and McCollum love him.

Among the former players who have the potential to be a head coach, I'm interested in Jarron Collins (NOP), Adrian Griffin (TOR), and Darvin Ham (MIL). All of them have won the championship with Ham being as a player and coach.
GoBobs
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,953
And1: 1,926
Joined: Jul 13, 2009

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#728 » by GoBobs » Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:53 pm

I want somebody that has exceeded expectations at a lower level. Give me a guy who has proven he can coach by winning something.

Not an assistant who has waited his turn. Not a former player who gets a gig because he was a former player.

Give me somebody that has proven he is a good coach.
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 22,305
And1: 15,517
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#729 » by yosemiteben » Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:44 pm

Holy **** I stand corrected

Read on Twitter
KembaWalker
RealGM
Posts: 11,955
And1: 13,582
Joined: Dec 22, 2011

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#730 » by KembaWalker » Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:44 pm

WOW!
User avatar
Marino
Pro Prospect
Posts: 817
And1: 173
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
Location: 919
       

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#731 » by Marino » Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:44 pm

I can't say I'm surprised. I hope they bring in a more veteran level coach who can also coach defense.
User avatar
KingCat
Starter
Posts: 2,289
And1: 1,190
Joined: Jan 29, 2012
   

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#732 » by KingCat » Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:45 pm

Thank the lord. Great player developer, not a leader though.
Your Charlotte Hornets! We’ll eventually get something right;right?
KembaWalker
RealGM
Posts: 11,955
And1: 13,582
Joined: Dec 22, 2011

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#733 » by KembaWalker » Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:47 pm

I'm guessing the guys didn't go to bat for him in exit interviews
the last couple years felt pretty Dunlappy
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 22,305
And1: 15,517
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#734 » by yosemiteben » Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:47 pm

KembaWalker wrote:I'm guessing the guys didn't go to bat for him in exit interviews
the last couple years felt pretty Dunlappy

That does feel like the most likely explanation.
vorbis
Veteran
Posts: 2,890
And1: 789
Joined: Jun 26, 2008

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#735 » by vorbis » Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:51 pm

I was supportive of Borrego to a large extent, but he would have had to do a much better job this season to make this move a surprise. he didn't have much of a case to be made after the team flamed out down the stretch and laid another turd in the play-in tournament.
spankymoore7
Rookie
Posts: 1,160
And1: 325
Joined: Apr 23, 2010

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#736 » by spankymoore7 » Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:56 pm

What a mess for Charlotte…MJ going to MJ I guess
User avatar
HornetJail
RealGM
Posts: 46,546
And1: 14,265
Joined: Feb 05, 2012
     

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#737 » by HornetJail » Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:57 pm

we are for sure making win-now moves this offseason. buckle up
investigate Adam Silver
Braggins
RealGM
Posts: 14,508
And1: 9,296
Joined: Jan 05, 2014

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#738 » by Braggins » Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:05 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:I'm guessing the guys didn't go to bat for him in exit interviews
the last couple years felt pretty Dunlappy

That does feel like the most likely explanation.

Maybe he actually was trying to get them to play defense and they didnt like it lol.
User avatar
-Ian-
Analyst
Posts: 3,101
And1: 860
Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Location: Philippines
Contact:
 

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#739 » by -Ian- » Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:11 pm

I believe he's a genuinely good guy. I hope he gets a landing spot soon.
wilson115
Starter
Posts: 2,380
And1: 1,585
Joined: Aug 21, 2020
 

Re: Over The Top: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#740 » by wilson115 » Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:34 pm

KembaWalker wrote:“It’s the same defense we played when Trae scored nine points and we won the game in Charlotte,” Borrego said. “So nothing changed on our end. They did a good job of moving the ball and they made shots. When you put two guys and you blitz the pick-and-roll, you are going to give up something somewhere. And unfortunately they found some open stuff and our guys were scrambling.”

nothing changed for sure, guess we just expected them to do as little prep as we did

Well something's changed now that's for sure.

Return to Charlotte Hornets