Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9

[BobbieL]

Dragic is a good player, and much of what makes him good ages gracefully. I'd be willing to move him just because we have a bunch of tertiary level players and need to find a way to sacrifice in the short term. Building up draft capital makes sense.

However, Riley has been pretty vocal about his displeasure with the gamble that is the draft. Maybe this is to cover for tossing picks to the wind since he's been here, but much of our success has come from the one draft pick we nailed. Regardless, he keeps tossing bait hoping to get a FA to sign on the line in Miami, but that's a hard prospect to sell to the FAs you really want to land when you've got Dion Waiters as your leader.

How adamant would Riley be about moving Whiteside with Dragic? Financially, it's going to be pretty damn hard to make the money work when you're moving near $43m.

I don't think they have to be moved together. The Heat board has been going back and forth about Dallas being a good Whiteside destination due to prior interest and cap space. We'd pretty much be cutting him loose though in that scenario, if we wanted cap space.

As for Dragic to PHX. Couldn't you guys just absorb his contract? Don't you have space?

Yes the Suns could absorb it or get darn close - maybe the Heat take back like Daniels expiring. (3.2) to make it work. I was just hoping to add Olynyk for Chandler or Dudley as that would help the suns not use all their cap space and not add another player.

My deal: Dragic Olynyk for Chandler Chriss Daniels and pick

I think that is 29 going out and 20 coming back

[lilfishi22]

Dragic is a good player, and much of what makes him good ages gracefully. I'd be willing to move him just because we have a bunch of tertiary level players and need to find a way to sacrifice in the short term. Building up draft capital makes sense.

However, Riley has been pretty vocal about his displeasure with the gamble that is the draft. Maybe this is to cover for tossing picks to the wind since he's been here, but much of our success has come from the one draft pick we nailed. Regardless, he keeps tossing bait hoping to get a FA to sign on the line in Miami, but that's a hard prospect to sell to the FAs you really want to land when you've got Dion Waiters as your leader.

How adamant would Riley be about moving Whiteside with Dragic? Financially, it's going to be pretty damn hard to make the money work when you're moving near $43m.

I don't think they have to be moved together. The Heat board has been going back and forth about Dallas being a good Whiteside destination due to prior interest and cap space. We'd pretty much be cutting him loose though in that scenario, if we wanted cap space.

As for Dragic to PHX. Couldn't you guys just absorb his contract? Don't you have space?

We could, if that's all it took to get him. Dragic for TPE.

Edit: But I would want something more involved for letting Miami off his contract.

[DayofMourning]

How adamant would Riley be about moving Whiteside with Dragic? Financially, it's going to be pretty damn hard to make the money work when you're moving near $43m.

I don't think they have to be moved together. The Heat board has been going back and forth about Dallas being a good Whiteside destination due to prior interest and cap space. We'd pretty much be cutting him loose though in that scenario, if we wanted cap space.

As for Dragic to PHX. Couldn't you guys just absorb his contract? Don't you have space?

The issue with just a plain Dragic to Phoenix is, what would you want? I'm not sure the Suns are at the stage where you pay a high price for Dragic.

We've tossed this idea around a bit too. The most common options seem to be our picks back or Warren. I've been a proponent of both for various reasons. With our picks back we can try and refresh this rag tag roster of ours. With Warren, we've got another young talent who can at least get you a bucket, something we consistently find ourselves running short on when it matters.

Knight doesn't interest me in the slightest. Would rather look at what we can do now to flip this roster as fast as possible. I don't want a 5 year rebuild. I believe if we play it right, we could do it in 2 years, and then be a prime destination again for FAs.

[Villalobos]

don't see Dragic wanting to go back to PHX unless they draft Doncic, and if they draft Doncic he'd be less useful anyway (unless they shipped off Jackson and the lineup was Dragic/Booker/Doncic/Something/Something). don't see it happening

also personally would not want to give up much of value for 32 year old Dragic. when guards like him lose their speed they're next to useless

[DayofMourning]

Yes the Suns could absorb it or get darn close - maybe the Heat take back like Daniels expiring. (3.2) to make it work. I was just hoping to add Olynyk for Chandler or Dudley as that would help the suns not use all their cap space and not add another player.

My deal: Dragic Olynyk for Chandler Chriss Daniels and pick

I think that is 29 going out and 20 coming back

Olynyk is just about my favorite player on the roster right now. Very skilled. Some obvious deficiencies, but he final result of his time on the floor is usually always our biggest net positive from any player. Is Chriss not working out as hoped for you guys? Tbh, I was not a fan of his going in to the draft.

Another angle that I started thinking about due to the report from Woj is somehow acquiring that 14th pick from Denver. Seems they want to make a dump of Faried to save themselves some money and would be willing to part with their pick. If we could move Dragic and Whiteside and not take back salary, we could accommodate that move for them. That report got my wheels turning.

[DayofMourning]

We could, if that's all it took to get him. Dragic for TPE.

Edit: But I would want something more involved for letting Miami off his contract.

Haha, no, I'd expect there to be picks coming back. Returning our picks makes sense. You guys are about maxed on the amount of draft talent you need to bring in anyways. Booker, Jackson, and the first. Grief, that's plenty, yet you still have another half dozen, lol. On our side, we're lucky Riley hasn't shipped out all of our picks. The best part of team right now is Winslow, Rich, and Bam, outside of Kelly O. Picks and cap space. That'd be plenty.

[JDLAW]

Don't see the Suns taking Dragic back under any circumstances. When he left he burned all bridges with the front office. The Suns are not going to give Miami its picks back for an aging player that made it very clear he did not want to be here.

[DayofMourning]

Don't see the Suns taking Dragic back under any circumstances. When he left he burned all bridges with the front office. The Suns are not going to give Miami its picks back for an aging player that made it very clear he did not want to be here.

If not for this, I might agree.

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=21961060

Nearly three years after Goran Dragic surprised the Phoenix Suns by asking out of the Valley, the 2015 Most Improved Player has made up with the man who traded him.

Dragic revealed on Zach Lowe’s The Lowe Post podcast that he spoke with his former boss in November when his Miami Heat visited Phoenix.

“First of all, it was never my intention to leave Phoenix like I did. It happens,” Dragic said. “I’m always going to be grateful for this organization. They are the first one that gave me an opportunity in the NBA. Ryan is right. In the end of the day it is only business. This year when we play over there, I really had a good, long conversation with Ryan and I was pleased that this is finally — you know, it’s finally over. You know what I mean? I wished them the best. I think Ryan is a good GM. I was happy we had a good conversation.”

McDonough also said he was happy to move on.

“I think what is important to realize is 95 percent of the time or 99 percent of the time he was here, we did have a good relationship,” the Suns general manager said. “The end wasn’t good and it got too public and he admits he regrets some of that, and so do I.”

[bigfoot]

We could, if that's all it took to get him. Dragic for TPE.

Edit: But I would want something more involved for letting Miami off his contract.

Haha, no, I'd expect there to be picks coming back. Returning our picks makes sense. You guys are about maxed on the amount of draft talent you need to bring in anyways. Booker, Jackson, and the first. Grief, that's plenty, yet you still have another half dozen, lol. On our side, we're lucky Riley hasn't shipped out all of our picks. The best part of team right now is Winslow, Rich, and Bam, outside of Kelly O. Picks and cap space. That'd be plenty.

I think most of us believe the 2021 pick is gold. We've already lost out on the 10th pick in this draft when we traded for Knight. I doubt that 2021 pick will be moved unless it is for a legit star that fits the age profile. Maybe something with #16 and next years Bucks pick.

[lilfishi22]

We could, if that's all it took to get him. Dragic for TPE.

Edit: But I would want something more involved for letting Miami off his contract.

Haha, no, I'd expect there to be picks coming back. Returning our picks makes sense. You guys are about maxed on the amount of draft talent you need to bring in anyways. Booker, Jackson, and the first. Grief, that's plenty, yet you still have another half dozen, lol. On our side, we're lucky Riley hasn't shipped out all of our picks. The best part of team right now is Winslow, Rich, and Bam, outside of Kelly O. Picks and cap space. That'd be plenty.

With our current trajectory (if projections are correct), I think the idea is that our picks would become less valuable while the Miami picks will become more valuable. I don't think that 2021 will come back but next seasons pick could be on the table.

I think a lot depends on what your direction is like. Are you going to a full rebuild or attempt a reload. I do like the idea of Olynyk as a stretch 4.

[JDLAW]

Don't see the Suns taking Dragic back under any circumstances. When he left he burned all bridges with the front office. The Suns are not going to give Miami its picks back for an aging player that made it very clear he did not want to be here.

If not for this, I might agree.

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=21961060

Nearly three years after Goran Dragic surprised the Phoenix Suns by asking out of the Valley, the 2015 Most Improved Player has made up with the man who traded him.

Dragic revealed on Zach Lowe’s The Lowe Post podcast that he spoke with his former boss in November when his Miami Heat visited Phoenix.

“First of all, it was never my intention to leave Phoenix like I did. It happens,” Dragic said. “I’m always going to be grateful for this organization. They are the first one that gave me an opportunity in the NBA. Ryan is right. In the end of the day it is only business. This year when we play over there, I really had a good, long conversation with Ryan and I was pleased that this is finally — you know, it’s finally over. You know what I mean? I wished them the best. I think Ryan is a good GM. I was happy we had a good conversation.”

McDonough also said he was happy to move on.

“I think what is important to realize is 95 percent of the time or 99 percent of the time he was here, we did have a good relationship,” the Suns general manager said. “The end wasn’t good and it got too public and he admits he regrets some of that, and so do I.”

I know I have read this before. They made nice in the press, but it does not mean they would take him back. The line from McDonough above is more telling. He has moved on!

[DayofMourning]

We could, if that's all it took to get him. Dragic for TPE.

Edit: But I would want something more involved for letting Miami off his contract.

Haha, no, I'd expect there to be picks coming back. Returning our picks makes sense. You guys are about maxed on the amount of draft talent you need to bring in anyways. Booker, Jackson, and the first. Grief, that's plenty, yet you still have another half dozen, lol. On our side, we're lucky Riley hasn't shipped out all of our picks. The best part of team right now is Winslow, Rich, and Bam, outside of Kelly O. Picks and cap space. That'd be plenty.

I think most of us believe the 2021 pick is gold. We've already lost out on the 10th pick in this draft when we traded for Knight. I doubt that 2021 pick will be moved unless it is for a legit star that fits the age profile. Maybe something with #16 and next years Bucks pick.

My hope is that we'll be well on our way to improving by that time. Get our pick back from you this year in the proposed trade, move Hassan as well, and that has eliminated our two most productive players. Should be high lottery at that point in the next two drafts. By that time, I'd hope that our youth (Winslow, Rich, Bam) has figured things out and the allure of a team on the rise becomes very marketable for the crop of FAs coming up, which would add to our talent pool and push that 2021 pick back into the late teens.

But as you say, if Miami stumbles hard, then maybe that pick is something. Not quite the same as getting picks from the Sacramentos and the Brooklyns, but I can see how recency bias has made that a goal to shoot for. For me, I'd like to have it back and not owe anything, but would be open to it not being included. I feel like the draft before it has the potential to be very good and would like to be a player in it if that was an option.

[DayofMourning]

With our current trajectory (if projections are correct), I think the idea is that our picks would become less valuable while the Miami picks will become more valuable. I don't think that 2021 will come back but next seasons pick could be on the table.

I think a lot depends on what your direction is like. Are you going to a full rebuild or attempt a reload. I do like the idea of Olynyk as a stretch 4.

Next season's pick? From whom?

I feel as if Riley is going to find a way to go all in somehow on pushing this roster forward. There are some big names out there (Cousins, Kawhi, etc.) that are sure to grab his attention. He will probably make a push for them and disregard the draft.

However, as I mentioned, when Zo went down and we kind of lost our direction we stunk it up and got Caron and Wade in back to back years. Two years is what it took for us to completely reshape our team. Caron and others for Shaq, and Wade becoming sensational. I'm in love with the next two drafts personally. I'm a huge fan of Nassir Little, and would be overjoyed with RJ or Cam. The following year could have quite a bit of talent due to possible entry requirement changes. Would like another pick in that draft. If it was in the cards, we could really fix our roster fast, and not labor for 5 years as Riley's commented on before in the past.

[DirtyDez]

We could, if that's all it took to get him. Dragic for TPE.

Edit: But I would want something more involved for letting Miami off his contract.

Haha, no, I'd expect there to be picks coming back. Returning our picks makes sense. You guys are about maxed on the amount of draft talent you need to bring in anyways. Booker, Jackson, and the first. Grief, that's plenty, yet you still have another half dozen, lol. On our side, we're lucky Riley hasn't shipped out all of our picks. The best part of team right now is Winslow, Rich, and Bam, outside of Kelly O. Picks and cap space. That'd be plenty.

You obviously don’t want Knight but any deal with multiple picks would require him to be included. The first year of Booker’s max would also include Dragic and Knight making 35 mil. That’s a 65mil backcourt.

Spoiler:

We’d be the Heat!

[lilfishi22]

With our current trajectory (if projections are correct), I think the idea is that our picks would become less valuable while the Miami picks will become more valuable. I don't think that 2021 will come back but next seasons pick could be on the table.

I think a lot depends on what your direction is like. Are you going to a full rebuild or attempt a reload. I do like the idea of Olynyk as a stretch 4.

Next season's pick? From whom?

I feel as if Riley is going to find a way to go all in somehow on pushing this roster forward. There are some big names out there (Cousins, Kawhi, etc.) that are sure to grab his attention. He will probably make a push for them and disregard the draft.

However, as I mentioned, when Zo went down and we kind of lost our direction we stunk it up and got Caron and Wade in back to back years. Two years is what it took for us to completely reshape our team. Caron and others for Shaq, and Wade becoming sensational. I'm in love with the next two drafts personally. I'm a huge fan of Nassir Little, and would be overjoyed with RJ or Cam. The following year could have quite a bit of talent due to possible entry requirement changes. Would like another pick in that draft. If it was in the cards, we could really fix our roster fast, and not labor for 5 years as Riley's commented on before in the past.

Sorry I misremembered losing Milwaukee's pick with the Miami pick lol.

We really only have one more pick of Miami's then. I think it would make more sense for your team to go a full rebuild than try and reload on the fly. I'd be more comfortable with a reload if there was a young star to reload around but, no offense, I don't really see a young star on your roster unless there's something in Richardson. Winslow is still a young buck but he hasn't really shown much star potential in his 3 seasons in the league.

I don't really see a 1st coming to Miami in a trade for Dragic without at least top 10-12 protection. While we think our trajectory is upwards, it's by no means a guarantee even with all this youth and especially not guaranteed in the short 1-2 season term anyway. Regardless, I like Dragic and would love to see him back in Phoenix but I wouldn't want to give up significantly more than swapping salary or just salary relief unless another young player was attached. Dragic is after all 32 already, he's by no means cheap and even if I think his game will age well, for a young team like us, it doesn't make much sense to give up too much assets for him.

[bwgood77]

I'd 100% take Dragic back. At some point you need competent PG play. He's got 2yrs and $37m left but I'd rather spend that money over 2yrs on a veteran all-star guard who's familiar with Koko than say $32m/4 or $27m/3 for Payton or spend significant assets to pry Kemba and the privilege to pay him his next mega contract from Charlotte.

Dragic is a good player, and much of what makes him good ages gracefully. I'd be willing to move him just because we have a bunch of tertiary level players and need to find a way to sacrifice in the short term. Building up draft capital makes sense.

However, Riley has been pretty vocal about his displeasure with the gamble that is the draft. Maybe this is to cover for tossing picks to the wind since he's been here, but much of our success has come from the one draft pick we nailed. Regardless, he keeps tossing bait hoping to get a FA to sign on the line in Miami, but that's a hard prospect to sell to the FAs you really want to land when you've got Dion Waiters as your leader.

I'm not real high on taking Dragic back, especially at the cost of much for assets as a price at this point, but given our PG options, we don't have many, so depending on price, I'd prefer him to pretty much most others. I'd probably only want to give up the Milwaukee pick for him though.

[DayofMourning]

You obviously don’t want Knight but any deal with multiple picks would require him to be included. The first year of Booker’s max would also include Dragic and Knight making 35 mil. That’s a 65mil backcourt.

Spoiler:

We’d be the Heat!

Haha. To think we're going to be paying TJ 20 million next year...that's going to look real nice when he's platooning in our backcourt, lol. Might as well re-up Wayne as well and add to the dysfunction:)

[JDLAW]

Haha, no, I'd expect there to be picks coming back. Returning our picks makes sense. You guys are about maxed on the amount of draft talent you need to bring in anyways. Booker, Jackson, and the first. Grief, that's plenty, yet you still have another half dozen, lol. On our side, we're lucky Riley hasn't shipped out all of our picks. The best part of team right now is Winslow, Rich, and Bam, outside of Kelly O. Picks and cap space. That'd be plenty.

I think most of us believe the 2021 pick is gold. We've already lost out on the 10th pick in this draft when we traded for Knight. I doubt that 2021 pick will be moved unless it is for a legit star that fits the age profile. Maybe something with #16 and next years Bucks pick.

My hope is that we'll be well on our way to improving by that time. Get our pick back from you this year in the proposed trade, move Hassan as well, and that has eliminated our two most productive players. Should be high lottery at that point in the next two drafts. By that time, I'd hope that our youth (Winslow, Rich, Bam) has figured things out and the allure of a team on the rise becomes very marketable for the crop of FAs coming up, which would add to our talent pool and push that 2021 pick back into the late teens.

But as you say, if Miami stumbles hard, then maybe that pick is something. Not quite the same as getting picks from the Sacramentos and the Brooklyns, but I can see how recency bias has made that a goal to shoot for. For me, I'd like to have it back and not owe anything, but would be open to it not being included. I feel like the draft before it has the potential to be very good and would like to be a player in it if that was an option.

I appreciate where you are coming from. If I were a good Miami fan such as yourself, I would want that too and I respect your frankness and professionalism. Just don't see it happening because I don't see Miami and the Suns as good trading partners at this point given the make-up of the two teams.

[DayofMourning]

@lilfishi and bwgood. Those assets might add up to something at some point, but you guys are pretty loaded as is. How many lottery picks are on your team right now? Like seven, after the draft? I just wonder how valuable mid first rounders truly are for a team like yours. Seems to me that you guys could use some seasoned veterans who'd be willing to help the young ones develop (i.e., Reddick for the Sixers) instead.

For Miami, we've got no bonafide star on our team, and a bunch of good talent all with similar contracts, and no direction. We will be able to compete for a playoff spot, but losing to a team on the other end of the roster building spectrum should open some eyes. You need top end talent. For our team, I'd even be willing to package any of our young trio with first rounders to try and crack the top ten if the right player was there (Mikal, Porter Jr.). That would be my goal in moving Hassan and Dragic. Get 16 back, package with one of our youth to move up. With cap space, facilitate for Faried and 14 from Denver (Woj bomb). Package that pick and a player to move up. That's me though. That's not Riley. Too much of a gamble. I'd be looking at it with an eye towards really building the team over the next two drafts, then have a resurgence.

[DirtyDez]

Don't see the Suns taking Dragic back under any circumstances. When he left he burned all bridges with the front office. The Suns are not going to give Miami its picks back for an aging player that made it very clear he did not want to be here.

If you take away the past beef (which you can’t b/c it’s significant) he does make sense. He costs less assets than Rozier would, he’s cheaper than Conley/Lowry and he was an MVP under Kokoskov... I would be good with signing Tyreke as well.

Taking a rookie PG at #16 doesn’t do anything to help the young guys right now and that’s my #1 concern going into next year. No more development stunts by surroundeding the core with crap PG’s.