Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

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Just humble yourself Nagy and check the ego. This team can do well once you do that. You suck as a play caller.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Fields is the real deal top to bottom. One of the best prospects ever in college football and his years at OSU proved it. He’s not a bust. If he fails, it’s on the bears.

Best QB prospect we've ever had.

[fleet]

LOL, Nagy is starting Dalton Sunday. Its all about Matt Nagy’s ego. He wants to call plays again for the glory and a cookie

[Susan]

Nagy wants to get jumped.

[Stratmaster]

I only brought it up because someone else mentioned that Fields doesn't look like Dan Marino.

Relative to his era, he doesn't. Marino was 7-2 as a starter and had among the best TD/INT ratios and was 6th in TDs per game. He was trivially a top 10 QB as a rookie. Fields isn't on that path.

I mean I don't care that he's not on that path for his rookie season, but objectively it's an accurate assessment. It's weird to bring up one of the all-time great QBs from 40 years ago anyway (for whomever did). It'd make more sense to say he doesn't look like MaHomes or Watson or Murray or some other great modern young QB.

Fields has played 2 games as a starter. Maybe we should look after game 9 as a starter and decide if Fields is on that path.

People are hoping Fields will be one of those greaat QB's and it is pretty natural to want to assess that although we would all agree it is too early to be accurate in the assessment.

Dresden was responding to a direct comparison, and responded with Marino's first 2 games as a starter because that is how many games Fields has started. Fields is certainly unlikely to go 7-2, because his team pales in comparison to the team Marino played on. His TD rate and QB rating will also suffer because of that. It is not out of the realm of possibility that he will exceed Marino's 201 yards per game (his rookie season average), and that wasn't just the "era". In Marino's 2nd season he jumped to 317 yards per game. I would love to see that same trajectory for Fields, and it is not out of the question. Marino's career QB rating was 86.4, which is about what Fields put up last game. I would be willing to bet that Fields long term completion percentage will be as good as Marino's was.

But then, I don't think as highly of Marino as you do. Many rate him in the top 10, but I wouldn't. I would consider Drew Brees more of an all-time top 10 great than Marino. I think there are a lot of QB's in this era who are way better than some of the old timers who make top 25 lists. All that to say, I am probably biased against 20th century QB's when comparing them to the QB's in this league the last 21 years.

[Mbrahv0528]

I did not say he had a bad one. I'm saying he had an ok day. I've been watching the NFL for many many years. I don't expect a rookie to come out and set the world on fire, and maybe Fields will develop into a great QB. But I'm not seeing a rookie Dan Marino out there.

Marino's first two starts: 90 yards, then 155 yards. His rookie season he averaged 200 yards per game. And that was on a team that had Mark Clayton, Mark Duper, and Nat Moore and went 12-4.

Thank you for that, I was SMH at the comparison to Dan Marino.

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[micromonkey]

Fields looks almost nothing like Dan Marino
I was looking at my Dan Marino rookie card picture and confirmed it.

I haven't found a famous/semi-famous doppelganger yet (in a zoomed out "Foundation" Apple TV ad the actor kind of looked like him--if you squinted)--but these things take time...

On a serious note--yes there are some that come in ready and some that take a little time. But I think after a full season you start having an idea on how a guy will translate. They can still improve aspects and get more efficient--but if by year 3 you are seeing "not superstar" you are probably right. I can't think of any recent top tier QB who wasn't showing something by year 2 and cementing it the following year.

But I'm not convinced that its 100% the QB. IMO the reality is that the team and scheme make a huge difference--and its hard to discern between the two. Look at prime Randall Cunningham in PHI vs his 35 yo self in MIN (coming out of retirement). In Minny he had a great line and insane WR corp and largely was able to eclipse his probowl days as a youth. Moss/Reed and Carter can do that, as well as Robert Smith at RB.

Jeff George, Rich Gannon, Jake Plummer, Steve Young were guys on bad teams (at least for them) that started playing much better with a change of scenery and scheme. Steve Young likely ends up being an unknown had he stayed with the Bucs his entire career. Many guys probably had wasted careers and could have won (or won more) elsewhere Neil Lomax, and to some extent Moon (who did win but not as much as his numbers would suggest). Other guys won past their prime Elway, P Manning with a great team around them--when for a lot of their primes they were carrying some mediocre teams (in one way or another). I think we will see Stafford show much better than expected --even though this is past his prime.

So it all has to line up to be a Mahomes. Not taking away his stats or ability but if he ended up on the Jags he could still be a good QB but we might not have the rest (scheme/players, etc) around him to really show all he can do. Heck he might have had significantly worse numbers had we drafted him... We'd likely know hes a stud--but his W/L could be more Deshawn Watson

[bad knees]

Oh, Nagy says Dalton is still the starter if he is healthy? After what Fields did against the Lions? Give me a break.

Nagy's gonna go down as one of the biggest idiots ever to hold an NFL head coaching position. His chances of being the Bears' coach next season are zero. The only real question is whether he lasts the season, and the extent of the damage that he wreaks during his last few games as head coach.

[fleet]

Nagy wants to get jumped.

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[dougthonus]

Fields has played 2 games as a starter. Maybe we should look after game 9 as a starter and decide if Fields is on that path.

He's played nearly 3 full complete games, and so you can make some assessment as to where he is today, and I think everyone will make an assessment every time they play.

People are hoping Fields will be one of those greaat QB's and it is pretty natural to want to assess that although we would all agree it is too early to be accurate in the assessment.

Absolutely. While I'm sure we'll all make observations as to what is happening now, none of us should be too hung up on their accuracy.

Dresden was responding to a direct comparison, and responded with Marino's first 2 games as a starter because that is how many games Fields has started. Fields is certainly unlikely to go 7-2, because his team pales in comparison to the team Marino played on. His TD rate and QB rating will also suffer because of that. It is not out of the realm of possibility that he will exceed Marino's 201 yards per game (his rookie season average), and that wasn't just the "era". In Marino's 2nd season he jumped to 317 yards per game. I would love to see that same trajectory for Fields, and it is not out of the question. Marino's career QB rating was 86.4, which is about what Fields put up last game. I would be willing to bet that Fields long term completion percentage will be as good as Marino's was.

Marino was at the league average in yards per game his rookie year then became basically the highest yard passer afterwards. I doubt Fields will be at the league average, but as I said, I don't care that he doesn't look like Marino or anyone specific in year 1. We care a lot more about what he looks like in year 3+.

But then, I don't think as highly of Marino as you do. Many rate him in the top 10, but I wouldn't. I would consider Drew Brees more of an all-time top 10 great than Marino. I think there are a lot of QB's in this era who are way better than some of the old timers who make top 25 lists. All that to say, I am probably biased against 20th century QB's when comparing them to the QB's in this league the last 21 years.

Hard to gauge QBs of different eras. I don't know if Marino is top 10 all time or not, but he was the best of his era IMO.

[Susan]

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My take from this whole situation is this: Nagy is struggling to connect with Justin and understands thinks that he needs to establish his offense with Dalton in order to justify his position in the organization. He had a mini meltdown yesterday after the game when asked who was calling the plays and seems to be deeply insecure in something - despite the fact that the team won.

He's taking developing his own playcalling ability over developing Justin Fields if he actually plays Dalton over Fields. Not sure that's a good idea, but "Be You" Matt.

[fleet]

Last year, Dalton had weapons including Amari Cooper, CeeDee Lamb, Michael Gallup and Ezekiel Elliott. In nine starts with the Cowboys, Dalton managed just 20 total completions longer than 20 yards. That’s good for just about two per game, and ranks 32nd out of qualified starters last season.

Even Sam Darnold with the Jets, Joe Burrow in half a season, Nick Foles in limited starts with the Bears, and Gardner Minshew in less than a full season threw for more of such completions than Dalton.

Taking it a step further, Dalton’s passing attack saw an explosive play on just seven percent of passing plays in 2020. This was tied for second-to-last in all of football.

On Sunday against the Lions, Fields and the Bears’ offense saw an explosive passing play on 28 percent of their pass plays — good for first in the NFL, through Sunday night.

The Bears also ran for the most overall yards in a game (188) in almost three years (Week 14, 2018).

[Dresden]

I'm actually ok with Nagy starting Dalton Sunday v. the Raiders as long as he uses the same sort of play calling as he did v. DET- i.e. a fair amount of deep to medium routes, and not just dink and dunk all over the field.

It's ok for Justin to sit a game or two, it's not going to kill him. And the Raiders are a good team. Most likely it will be an ugly day for the offense again. But let Dalton have another game or two to see what he can do. If it is more of like what we saw the first couple of games, and esp. if the Bears are 2-4 at that point, then it makes sense to go back to Justin.

But whoever plays on Sunday, it's likely not going to be pretty. I think Carr is going to Carrve up the Bears defense, so we'll be playing from behind, which is going to make our running game less of a threat.

I also don't believe any of this garbage about Nagy's ego getting in the way, or him not connecting with Justin, or him trying to sabotage Justin. All that is just gossip as far as I'm concerned. Let's see the results on the field, and if they aren't good, then it's up to Nagy to adjust.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

I'm actually ok with Nagy starting Dalton Sunday v. the Raiders as long as he uses the same sort of play calling as he did v. DET- i.e. a fair amount of deep to medium routes, and not just dink and dunk all over the field.

It's ok for Justin to sit a game or two, it's not going to kill him. And the Raiders are a good team. Most likely it will be an ugly day for the offense again. But let Dalton have another game or two to see what he can do. If it is more of like what we saw the first couple of games, and esp. if the Bears are 2-4 at that point, then it makes sense to go back to Justin.

But whoever plays on Sunday, it's likely not going to be pretty. I think Carr is going to Carrve up the Bears defense, so we'll be playing from behind, which is going to make our running game less of a threat.

I also don't believe any of this garbage about Nagy's ego getting in the way, or him not connecting with Justin, or him trying to sabotage Justin. All that is just gossip as far as I'm concerned. Let's see the results on the field, and if they aren't good, then it's up to Nagy to adjust.

Of course. You've been defending Nagy and Dalton every step of the way. I wouldn't expect anything else

Gotta let our QB of now and the future continue to build chemistry. It should be on the job training from here on out and there's no reason to turn back. Certainly not for Nagy to make a point or Dalton to try and earn his salary.

[the ultimates]

It took a six-game losing streak last season for him to give up the play calling. After the Lions game he didn't come right out and give Lazor credit. He danced around a couple of questions and then admitted it. His ego wouldn't let his run game blossom with Jordan Howard because Nagy wanted to run inside zone. He couldn't teach or adjust his offense for a young athletic quarterback in Trubisky and now the same missteps are happening with Fields. His ego won't adjust his playcalling or pass protections for a questionable offensive line. The excuses for his ineptitude are galling at this point.

I also don't want to hear this crap of Lazor's offense only looks good against bad defenses as if Nagy has been only calling plays against top defenses. I wish somebody would say Nagy's offenses only look good against bad defenses because guess what that would actually be a step up from him.

[imagge]

I'm actually ok with Nagy starting Dalton Sunday v. the Raiders as long as he uses the same sort of play calling as he did v. DET- i.e. a fair amount of deep to medium routes, and not just dink and dunk all over the field.

It's ok for Justin to sit a game or two, it's not going to kill him. And the Raiders are a good team. Most likely it will be an ugly day for the offense again. But let Dalton have another game or two to see what he can do. If it is more of like what we saw the first couple of games, and esp. if the Bears are 2-4 at that point, then it makes sense to go back to Justin.

But whoever plays on Sunday, it's likely not going to be pretty. I think Carr is going to Carrve up the Bears defense, so we'll be playing from behind, which is going to make our running game less of a threat.

I also don't believe any of this garbage about Nagy's ego getting in the way, or him not connecting with Justin, or him trying to sabotage Justin. All that is just gossip as far as I'm concerned. Let's see the results on the field, and if they aren't good, then it's up to Nagy to adjust.

The problem is Andy can't throw the deep route anymore hence the dinking and dunking. So if you want more intermediate and deep routes you should be rooting for Fields to start

[TheAlanParsons]

Fields looks almost nothing like Dan Marino
I was looking at my Dan Marino rookie card picture and confirmed it.

I haven't found a famous/semi-famous doppelganger yet (in a zoomed out "Foundation" Apple TV ad the actor kind of looked like him--if you squinted)--but these things take time...

On a serious note--yes there are some that come in ready and some that take a little time. But I think after a full season you start having an idea on how a guy will translate. They can still improve aspects and get more efficient--but if by year 3 you are seeing "not superstar" you are probably right. I can't think of any recent top tier QB who wasn't showing something by year 2 and cementing it the following year.

But I'm not convinced that its 100% the QB. IMO the reality is that the team and scheme make a huge difference--and its hard to discern between the two. Look at prime Randall Cunningham in PHI vs his 35 yo self in MIN (coming out of retirement). In Minny he had a great line and insane WR corp and largely was able to eclipse his probowl days as a youth. Moss/Reed and Carter can do that, as well as Robert Smith at RB.

Jeff George, Rich Gannon, Jake Plummer, Steve Young were guys on bad teams (at least for them) that started playing much better with a change of scenery and scheme. Steve Young likely ends up being an unknown had he stayed with the Bucs his entire career. Many guys probably had wasted careers and could have won (or won more) elsewhere Neil Lomax, and to some extent Moon (who did win but not as much as his numbers would suggest). Other guys won past their prime Elway, P Manning with a great team around them--when for a lot of their primes they were carrying some mediocre teams (in one way or another). I think we will see Stafford show much better than expected --even though this is past his prime.

So it all has to line up to be a Mahomes. Not taking away his stats or ability but if he ended up on the Jags he could still be a good QB but we might not have the rest (scheme/players, etc) around him to really show all he can do. Heck he might have had significantly worse numbers had we drafted him... We'd likely know hes a stud--but his W/L could be more Deshawn Watson

This is a wise take. I can personally attest that for the Vikings of that era every fricking bum who stepped into the QB spot looked like a God because Cris Carter could catch any ball within yards of him, Moss was always just a heave ho away from a long TD pass, and Jake Reed was pretty damn good too.

[Dresden]

I'm actually ok with Nagy starting Dalton Sunday v. the Raiders as long as he uses the same sort of play calling as he did v. DET- i.e. a fair amount of deep to medium routes, and not just dink and dunk all over the field.

It's ok for Justin to sit a game or two, it's not going to kill him. And the Raiders are a good team. Most likely it will be an ugly day for the offense again. But let Dalton have another game or two to see what he can do. If it is more of like what we saw the first couple of games, and esp. if the Bears are 2-4 at that point, then it makes sense to go back to Justin.

But whoever plays on Sunday, it's likely not going to be pretty. I think Carr is going to Carrve up the Bears defense, so we'll be playing from behind, which is going to make our running game less of a threat.

I also don't believe any of this garbage about Nagy's ego getting in the way, or him not connecting with Justin, or him trying to sabotage Justin. All that is just gossip as far as I'm concerned. Let's see the results on the field, and if they aren't good, then it's up to Nagy to adjust.

The problem is Andy can't throw the deep route anymore hence the dinking and dunking. So if you want more intermediate and deep routes you should be rooting for Fields to start

We shall see I guess what Dalton can or cannot do. I find it hard to believe the Bears would have made him the starter if that is the case. he may not be as good as Fields is at it though, but again, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for another few games.

[dice]

I'm actually ok with Nagy starting Dalton Sunday v. the Raiders as long as he uses the same sort of play calling as he did v. DET- i.e. a fair amount of deep to medium routes, and not just dink and dunk all over the field.

It's ok for Justin to sit a game or two, it's not going to kill him. And the Raiders are a good team. Most likely it will be an ugly day for the offense again. But let Dalton have another game or two to see what he can do. If it is more of like what we saw the first couple of games, and esp. if the Bears are 2-4 at that point, then it makes sense to go back to Justin.

But whoever plays on Sunday, it's likely not going to be pretty. I think Carr is going to Carrve up the Bears defense, so we'll be playing from behind, which is going to make our running game less of a threat.

I also don't believe any of this garbage about Nagy's ego getting in the way, or him not connecting with Justin, or him trying to sabotage Justin. All that is just gossip as far as I'm concerned. Let's see the results on the field, and if they aren't good, then it's up to Nagy to adjust.

The problem is Andy can't throw the deep route anymore

maybe not like fields, but this looks pretty effortless:

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[bad knees]

I feel like the fans and Fields are being held hostage while Nagy works through his insecurity and the fact that he and we all know he is in over his head. Let's face it: he has demonstrated that he is unable to organize and call plays for an offense in which Fields can succeed (at least this season). He knows it - that's why he turned the play-calling over to Lazor. Then in the post-game, he at first tried not to disclose that Lazor had called the plays. The only explanation for this is insecurity/ego. Then he decided that he better come clean, but asserted his role in making the decision. Now we know what he knows - that he is not the offensive coach for Fields. As he sorts through the reality of that truth, the only thing that he has to fall back on is "the Mahomes way," so he announces that Dalton will start if healthy, because that is what must be done with a rookie quarterback! He must sit! Meanwhile, the whole freaking world (aside from our friend Dresden, of course) knows that the best course, short term and long term, is to keep going with Fields. What a clusterf**k.