Trade Ideas

[JujitsuFlip]

From the Cavs perspective, nothing should really change. There's a number at which they're comfortable matching, and there's a number at which they're no longer comfortable matching. But there's a reason that they didn't off him the $25M per last summer and nothing that's transpired since has increase his value. If someone else is willing to pay him more than $20M per, shake his hand and wish him luck.

Agreed, I'd say the only caveat is if he tells the Cavs prior to putting pen to paper on an offer sheet, then try to retrieve any assets possible by sending him out in a sign and trade to that team.

[wco81]

From the Cavs perspective, nothing should really change. There's a number at which they're comfortable matching, and there's a number at which they're no longer comfortable matching. But there's a reason that they didn't off him the $25M per last summer and nothing that's transpired since has increase his value. If someone else is willing to pay him more than $20M per, shake his hand and wish him luck.

Agreed, I'd say the only caveat is if he tells the Cavs prior to putting pen to paper on an offer sheet, then try to retrieve any assets possible by sending him out in a sign and trade to that team.

Cavs should have plenty of cap space.

Sexton may not be worth $20 million or more but rather than let him walk for nothing, match the offer and then look to trade him and get something back?

[gflem]

From the Cavs perspective, nothing should really change. There's a number at which they're comfortable matching, and there's a number at which they're no longer comfortable matching. But there's a reason that they didn't off him the $25M per last summer and nothing that's transpired since has increase his value. If someone else is willing to pay him more than $20M per, shake his hand and wish him luck.

Agreed, I'd say the only caveat is if he tells the Cavs prior to putting pen to paper on an offer sheet, then try to retrieve any assets possible by sending him out in a sign and trade to that team.

Cavs should have plenty of cap space.

Sexton may not be worth $20 million or more but rather than let him walk for nothing, match the offer and then look to trade him and get something back?

Right, if a player they really want at that contract is out there, or if the sweetener is too good to pass up.

[gflem]

Cavs picked up #49 from Sacto for a eurostash player Veznekov? Now three second round picks.

[Revenged25]

From the Cavs perspective, nothing should really change. There's a number at which they're comfortable matching, and there's a number at which they're no longer comfortable matching. But there's a reason that they didn't off him the $25M per last summer and nothing that's transpired since has increase his value. If someone else is willing to pay him more than $20M per, shake his hand and wish him luck.

I've always felt teams have 2 numbers in regards to RFA. Number #1 is what they are willing to offer them in a contract themselves and Number #2 is what they are willing to match based on what the Market sets his value at.

So the Cavs might feel they only want to offer him say $15-18 mil and hope he takes it but might be willing to go up to say $23 mil if that's what the market offers him, but wouldn't match past that number. What you're willing to offer and hope a player accepts might not actually be the max you're willing to pay them. Plus they might think his market value is only around the previous amount and think they are actually giving him a fair deal only for it to be slightly higher than expected but would be willing to match it if it's within what they are comfortable with.

[Revenged25]

So apparently the Cavs have had talks with the Spurs about acquiring Murray. Would be interesting to see what kind of package it would take to get him. I felt prior to this season that Murray would've been a great fit next to Sexton as that bigger guard that could guard 2s while Sexton took the PGs and Murray could still be the primary ball handler/facilitator, but Garland really stepped up. I could see Murray being a good fit with Garland as well as Garland should be able to play well off ball with him.

Though honestly I just don't understand why the Spurs would trade Murray. They don't really have another PG on the roster after trading Derrick White and they aren't in a position to draft Ivey... Primo and Walker are both SGs, so they must already have another PG they are looking at trading for or signing in FA to be willing to make such a trade. They definitely aren't an organization known for tanking. Just seems weird. It's also unlikely it's because Pop has an infatuation with someone like Sexton because Pop is retiring soon and the Spurs wouldn't make a move like that for a coach that isn't going to be there to develop them.

[JujitsuFlip]

Cavs picked up #49 from Sacto for a eurostash player Veznekov? Now three second round picks.

Good post, I just now seen that. I guess part of a bigger trade or combining picks to move up. Could also stash guys overseas or in the G league. Obviously can't roster 4 rookies.

[JujitsuFlip]

From the Cavs perspective, nothing should really change. There's a number at which they're comfortable matching, and there's a number at which they're no longer comfortable matching. But there's a reason that they didn't off him the $25M per last summer and nothing that's transpired since has increase his value. If someone else is willing to pay him more than $20M per, shake his hand and wish him luck.

Agreed, I'd say the only caveat is if he tells the Cavs prior to putting pen to paper on an offer sheet, then try to retrieve any assets possible by sending him out in a sign and trade to that team.

Cavs should have plenty of cap space.

Sexton may not be worth $20 million or more but rather than let him walk for nothing, match the offer and then look to trade him and get something back?

We were talking about it a bit in the other thread, Cavs are very close to the tax line, depending how they work the final 3 or 4 roster spots. They have Sexton's bird rights so can do whatever.

As far as matching in the hopes of trading him later, Cavs have had a horrible track record of doing that. Took on Haywood, nothing ever came of that, his TPE may have netted someone but I can't recall. Signed JR to an extension then could never move off him. Signed Love to an extension right when LeBron left, hoping they could pull a Blake Griffin and flip him 6 months later, guy is still on that deal (although a useful bench piece now). Gave up the expirings of Knight and Henson for the Final year and a half of Drummond, never could move off him.

Drummond and JR had to be sent away from the team, similar to KPJ. Love was throwing tantrums every season, sometimes multiple (he has final stopped doing that). So, I'm just saying, crossing fingers in hopes of trading him at a later date, historically speaking hasn't been great for the Cavs.

[Revenged25]

Agreed, I'd say the only caveat is if he tells the Cavs prior to putting pen to paper on an offer sheet, then try to retrieve any assets possible by sending him out in a sign and trade to that team.

Cavs should have plenty of cap space.

Sexton may not be worth $20 million or more but rather than let him walk for nothing, match the offer and then look to trade him and get something back?

We were talking about it a bit in the other thread, Cavs are very close to the tax line, depending how they work the final 3 or 4 roster spots. They have Sexton's bird rights so can do whatever.

As far as matching in the hopes of trading him later, Cavs have had a horrible track record of doing that. Took on Haywood, nothing ever came of that, his TPE may have netted someone but I can't recall. Signed JR to an extension then could never move off him. Signed Love to an extension right when LeBron left, hoping they could pull a Blake Griffin and flip him 6 months later, guy is still on that deal (although a useful bench piece now). Gave up the expirings of Knight and Henson for the Final year and a half of Drummond, never could move off him.

Drummond and JR had to be sent away from the team, similar to KPJ. Love was throwing tantrums every season, sometimes multiple (he has final stopped doing that). So, I'm just saying, crossing fingers in hopes of trading him at a later date, historically speaking hasn't been great for the Cavs.

JR was signed after we won a championship and LeBron wanted him around. JR was a bad contract signed due to wanting to keep LBJ happy. Love was signed at that value because of what he had done and he was probably worth around that if he returned to his Minnesota numbers with a larger role again. Unfortunately, he was constantly hurt after that and never got back to what he was, they weren't looking at flipping him 6 months later, they wanted him to be the new focal point of the team. Giving up Expirings for 1.5 years of a player that was supposed to help you decide if having a really good, big center could help make the rest of your pieces work better. There were moments where it looked like Drummond, or at least what Drummond brought at the time, fit well with the rest of the pieces and was what the Cavs needed. He wanted more money than they wanted to pay, got Allen for dirt cheap, Drummond became a headcase that teams didn't want unless he was basically free, and they bought him out. But they realized having a strong defensive/rebounding center would make the rest of the pieces they had look a lot better and I think that definitely helped them make the decision to go after Allen when he was available and then to pay him the 5/100 contract that most people was an overpay when they made it.

[wco81]

Yeah the tough thing about Sexton is that the Cavs don't need him any more. In fact they probably would prefer that Garland be the main guy, have the ball most of the time.

Then they'd pair Garland with a taller guy who can defend more.

Sexton has good efficiency numbers but he's 6-1 and coming back from ACL so he's probably not a long-term starter for the Cavs or any other team. If he can be a 6th man type, instant offense, that could be valuable but he's probably not going to accept that reduced role unless the market refuses to pay him starters contract. Can't blame him, played well and is only 23 so why would he want to give up being a starter at so early in his career?

[Revenged25]

Yeah the tough thing about Sexton is that the Cavs don't need him any more. In fact they probably would prefer that Garland be the main guy, have the ball most of the time.

Then they'd pair Garland with a taller guy who can defend more.

Sexton has good efficiency numbers but he's 6-1 and coming back from ACL so he's probably not a long-term starter for the Cavs or any other team. If he can be a 6th man type, instant offense, that could be valuable but he's probably not going to accept that reduced role unless the market refuses to pay him starters contract. Can't blame him, played well and is only 23 so why would he want to give up being a starter at so early in his career?

They have 3 taller guys who can defend behind them to help that, yes he's 6'1 and he has good efficiency, but he does does that at 20+ ppg. There were only 40 players last year who averaged 20+ ppg, that's 1.33 players per team. Of that number only 18 of them were guards who had a 45% FG and 35% 3P shot, only 28 regardless of position. That's the type of player Sexton is, something that there is less than 1 player per team in the entire NBA.

Also it was a MCL not an ACL and it wasn't an injury/surgery that causes long term issues with play. Also I don't think he'd be against going to the bench as long as he was still playing starter minutes, got his starter money, and was able to help the team win. Seems like those are his wishes, whether he's starting or coming off the bench seem secondary.

[gflem]

Cavs picked up #49 from Sacto for a eurostash player Veznekov? Now three second round picks.

Good post, I just now seen that. I guess part of a bigger trade or combining picks to move up. Could also stash guys overseas or in the G league. Obviously can't roster 4 rookies.

There were some rumors about the team possibly moving down to acquire a future first, so maybe this is more ammo to do just that.

[JujitsuFlip]

Yeah the tough thing about Sexton is that the Cavs don't need him any more. In fact they probably would prefer that Garland be the main guy, have the ball most of the time.

Then they'd pair Garland with a taller guy who can defend more.

Sexton has good efficiency numbers but he's 6-1 and coming back from ACL so he's probably not a long-term starter for the Cavs or any other team. If he can be a 6th man type, instant offense, that could be valuable but he's probably not going to accept that reduced role unless the market refuses to pay him starters contract. Can't blame him, played well and is only 23 so why would he want to give up being a starter at so early in his career?

They have 3 taller guys who can defend behind them to help that, yes he's 6'1 and he has good efficiency, but he does does that at 20+ ppg. There were only 40 players last year who averaged 20+ ppg, that's 1.33 players per team. Of that number only 18 of them were guards who had a 45% FG and 35% 3P shot, only 28 regardless of position. That's the type of player Sexton is, something that there is less than 1 player per team in the entire NBA.

Also it was a MCL not an ACL and it wasn't an injury/surgery that causes long term issues with play. Also I don't think he'd be against going to the bench as long as he was still playing starter minutes, got his starter money, and was able to help the team win. Seems like those are his wishes, whether he's starting or coming off the bench seem secondary.

It wasn't an ACL or MCL, it was his meniscus.

[JonFromVA]

Cavs should have plenty of cap space.

Sexton may not be worth $20 million or more but rather than let him walk for nothing, match the offer and then look to trade him and get something back?

We were talking about it a bit in the other thread, Cavs are very close to the tax line, depending how they work the final 3 or 4 roster spots. They have Sexton's bird rights so can do whatever.

As far as matching in the hopes of trading him later, Cavs have had a horrible track record of doing that. Took on Haywood, nothing ever came of that, his TPE may have netted someone but I can't recall. Signed JR to an extension then could never move off him. Signed Love to an extension right when LeBron left, hoping they could pull a Blake Griffin and flip him 6 months later, guy is still on that deal (although a useful bench piece now). Gave up the expirings of Knight and Henson for the Final year and a half of Drummond, never could move off him.

Drummond and JR had to be sent away from the team, similar to KPJ. Love was throwing tantrums every season, sometimes multiple (he has final stopped doing that). So, I'm just saying, crossing fingers in hopes of trading him at a later date, historically speaking hasn't been great for the Cavs.

JR was signed after we won a championship and LeBron wanted him around. JR was a bad contract signed due to wanting to keep LBJ happy. Love was signed at that value because of what he had done and he was probably worth around that if he returned to his Minnesota numbers with a larger role again. Unfortunately, he was constantly hurt after that and never got back to what he was, they weren't looking at flipping him 6 months later, they wanted him to be the new focal point of the team. Giving up Expirings for 1.5 years of a player that was supposed to help you decide if having a really good, big center could help make the rest of your pieces work better. There were moments where it looked like Drummond, or at least what Drummond brought at the time, fit well with the rest of the pieces and was what the Cavs needed. He wanted more money than they wanted to pay, got Allen for dirt cheap, Drummond became a headcase that teams didn't want unless he was basically free, and they bought him out. But they realized having a strong defensive/rebounding center would make the rest of the pieces they had look a lot better and I think that definitely helped them make the decision to go after Allen when he was available and then to pay him the 5/100 contract that most people was an overpay when they made it.

Or in other words, the big difference is if a team makes Sexton a big offer, they apparently want him ... which is something we can't say about all those others players. Still it would be best to work-out a S&T because plans can change and that apparent market for Collin could dry up when that team moves on to plan B.

The main advantage of matching is the limits on what other teams can offer. So, even if Collin's salary starts out higher than we would have wanted, his year to year raises are less and there's not going to be a 5th year. So, push the numbers around a bit, and it's possible both sides can convince themselves they got what they want.

[JonFromVA]

Cavs picked up #49 from Sacto for a eurostash player Veznekov? Now three second round picks.

Good post, I just now seen that. I guess part of a bigger trade or combining picks to move up. Could also stash guys overseas or in the G league. Obviously can't roster 4 rookies.

There were some rumors about the team possibly moving down to acquire a future first, so maybe this is more ammo to do just that.

Yes, some rumors are out that the Warriors would like to get off their first round pick and save some luxury tax by swapping it for a second.

[JonFromVA]

So apparently the Cavs have had talks with the Spurs about acquiring Murray. Would be interesting to see what kind of package it would take to get him. I felt prior to this season that Murray would've been a great fit next to Sexton as that bigger guard that could guard 2s while Sexton took the PGs and Murray could still be the primary ball handler/facilitator, but Garland really stepped up. I could see Murray being a good fit with Garland as well as Garland should be able to play well off ball with him.

Though honestly I just don't understand why the Spurs would trade Murray. They don't really have another PG on the roster after trading Derrick White and they aren't in a position to draft Ivey... Primo and Walker are both SGs, so they must already have another PG they are looking at trading for or signing in FA to be willing to make such a trade. They definitely aren't an organization known for tanking. Just seems weird. It's also unlikely it's because Pop has an infatuation with someone like Sexton because Pop is retiring soon and the Spurs wouldn't make a move like that for a coach that isn't going to be there to develop them.

There's a rumor that the Spurs are asking for a Jrue Holiday-like deal for Murray, so expect multiple firsts and swaps.

As for why?

I'm not sure if or what the source of unhappiness is. Maybe it's wish-casting from the media? But Murray is friends with Garland and they are both Klutch clients, so, there are connections and possibilities to feed the rumor mill.

[jbk1234]

So apparently the Cavs have had talks with the Spurs about acquiring Murray. Would be interesting to see what kind of package it would take to get him. I felt prior to this season that Murray would've been a great fit next to Sexton as that bigger guard that could guard 2s while Sexton took the PGs and Murray could still be the primary ball handler/facilitator, but Garland really stepped up. I could see Murray being a good fit with Garland as well as Garland should be able to play well off ball with him.

Though honestly I just don't understand why the Spurs would trade Murray. They don't really have another PG on the roster after trading Derrick White and they aren't in a position to draft Ivey... Primo and Walker are both SGs, so they must already have another PG they are looking at trading for or signing in FA to be willing to make such a trade. They definitely aren't an organization known for tanking. Just seems weird. It's also unlikely it's because Pop has an infatuation with someone like Sexton because Pop is retiring soon and the Spurs wouldn't make a move like that for a coach that isn't going to be there to develop them.

There's a rumor that the Spurs are asking for a Jrue Holiday-like deal for Murray, so expect multiple firsts and swaps.

As for why?

I'm not sure if or what the source of unhappiness is. Maybe it's wish-casting from the media? But Murray is friends with Garland and they are both Klutch clients, so, there are connections and possibilities to feed the rumor mill.

He's high usage, ball dominant, and not terribly efficient. The Spurs have always preferred a ball movement system.

[jbk1234]

From the Cavs perspective, nothing should really change. There's a number at which they're comfortable matching, and there's a number at which they're no longer comfortable matching. But there's a reason that they didn't off him the $25M per last summer and nothing that's transpired since has increase his value. If someone else is willing to pay him more than $20M per, shake his hand and wish him luck.

Agreed, I'd say the only caveat is if he tells the Cavs prior to putting pen to paper on an offer sheet, then try to retrieve any assets possible by sending him out in a sign and trade to that team.

Cavs should have plenty of cap space.

Sexton may not be worth $20 million or more but rather than let him walk for nothing, match the offer and then look to trade him and get something back?

Well, if he's not worth that number, or only worth that number to the Pistons, they may be unable to trade him for value on that contract.

[toooskies]

Unlikely that the Pistons want Sexton now that they have Ivey.

[jbk1234]

Unlikely that the Pistons want Sexton now that they have Ivey.

The Knicks are shedding salary.