76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[chitownsports4ever]

he would immediately be the highest paid player on the team and immediately deemed the franchise player based on his salary alone. .

Is John Wall Houston's franchise player?
Is Derrick Favors, the Thunders?
Kevin Love, the Cavs?
KP, the Mavs?
John Collins, the Hawks?
Gordon Hayward the Hornets?
Gary Harris, the Magic?


I think you get the idea. Depending on where he goes he absolutely could be seen as the franchise player, but if he went to Portland he wouldn't be. Minnesota he wouldn't be. Boston he wouldn't be. All teams with reported interest.

Was Scottie Pippen not valuable because of Mike?

No I dont get the idea in fact your response is flat out ridiculous


Ben Simmons is the 20th highest paid player in the league making over 33 million per year

Gary Harris makes 20 million per year and is an expiring

Favors makes 9 million per year

teams could acquire either one for peanuts if they choose to take on those contracts and the salaries are not even in the top 50


But also please tell me when any of these players were demanding a trade and sat out and then switched to mental issues to collect a check ?


The problem is if Simmons went to Portland he wouldn't be the franchise player but you would give up assets as if you were acquiring a franchise player and then would be paying him like one .

You would be assuming all this risk under the belief that he wouldn't do you and your franchise these same way if he didn't like how it was going .

If Philly was dumping him yeah, sure, maybe ? but it looks as they are asking for his perceived value before all of this started which makes him a ridiculously high risk acquisition .

Once he started down the mental health road it changed everything because now any team that assumes that contract can get left holding the bag because now all he has to do is claim hes stepping away for mental health issues and you are on the hook for still around a 100 millions dollars + whatever assets you gave up to get him . Would the Twolves or Portland be able to recover from something like that any time soon ...I doubt that .

Its okay to go all in sometimes but for a mentally fragile guy you'd have to pay superstar money for without superstar expectations ?

[Texas Chuck]

he would immediately be the highest paid player on the team and immediately deemed the franchise player based on his salary alone. .

Is John Wall Houston's franchise player?
Is Derrick Favors, the Thunders?
Kevin Love, the Cavs?
KP, the Mavs?
John Collins, the Hawks?
Gordon Hayward the Hornets?
Gary Harris, the Magic?


I think you get the idea. Depending on where he goes he absolutely could be seen as the franchise player, but if he went to Portland he wouldn't be. Minnesota he wouldn't be. Boston he wouldn't be. All teams with reported interest.

Was Scottie Pippen not valuable because of Mike?

No I dont get the idea in fact your response is flat out ridiculous
?

You made the claim that him being the highest player on the team makes him the franchise player automatically. I did not make that claim. I simply pointed out some other players who are the highest paid players on their team who are definitely not the franchise player.

Again, on some teams he would be that. But on many he would not. Regardless of his paycheck.

The rest of your post is arguing against stuff I didn't post about so not addressing it.

Cheers

Chuck

[azcatz11]

Bjorn Borg retired at 26 as he was racked with anxiety

Stranger things have happened

I hope that's not the case, like I said. But when we see him suiting up for a new team a few days after he's traded...I expect you to rescind your position on this.

Just curious because I've seen a few people say this.

Let's say he gets traded tonight, when is it acceptable for him to play again? A day? Week? Month? Next season? How long does he have to sit out to prove he has a mental illness? When is he healed?

I'm not saying he does have a mental illness, but do you see the problem that kind of thinking creates?

If he actually has a mental illness preventing him from playing, he should sit the entire season out and regroup next year.

We're arguing semantics here. You're taking him at face value and I'm not. He has a reason to lie about his mental illness and I'm calling BS. If I'm proven wrong and he has some serious stuff going on; I won't take pleasure in it.

[azcatz11]

The point is that nobody knows what is going on so I am not going to make assumptions either way

He might play tomorrow or he might not play for an extended period

Nothing would surprise me at this point

If your kid had a test tomorrow morning that you knew he didn't study for and claimed he had the flu when he woke up, would you believe him?

Simmons has been in therapy for months

For all we know, he’s got real issues

Or maybe he doesn’t

I find it hard to believe that someone would voluntarily go down that route when under no pressure to do so

No one knows what therapy he's been in. Do you think it's more likely he's lying about this or telling the truth?

[bebopdeluxe]

If your kid had a test tomorrow morning that you knew he didn't study for and claimed he had the flu when he woke up, would you believe him?

Simmons has been in therapy for months

For all we know, he’s got real issues

Or maybe he doesn’t

I find it hard to believe that someone would voluntarily go down that route when under no pressure to do so

No one knows what therapy he's been in. Do you think it's more likely he's lying about this or telling the truth?

Fun Fact - You can 1) be in therapy to deal with issues related to your job while 2) DOING YOUR JOB.

I should know. I did it for years.

[DroseReturnChi]

he would immediately be the highest paid player on the team and immediately deemed the franchise player based on his salary alone. The more it goes on and the sillier it gets I just don't see many teams willingly bringing that sorta drama to their door steps at that cost.

i dont know what are you even talking about. rookie max is far from highest for most teams. if hes highest player, that means the team sucks with no stars.

[Yoshun]

I hope that's not the case, like I said. But when we see him suiting up for a new team a few days after he's traded...I expect you to rescind your position on this.

Just curious because I've seen a few people say this.

Let's say he gets traded tonight, when is it acceptable for him to play again? A day? Week? Month? Next season? How long does he have to sit out to prove he has a mental illness? When is he healed?

I'm not saying he does have a mental illness, but do you see the problem that kind of thinking creates?

If he actually has a mental illness preventing him from playing, he should sit the entire season out and regroup next year.

We're arguing semantics here. You're taking him at face value and I'm not. He has a reason to lie about his mental illness and I'm calling BS. If I'm proven wrong and he has some serious stuff going on; I won't take pleasure in it.

I'm not saying he has no reason to lie, I'm not taking him at face value and I'm not arguing semantics, I'm asking what it takes to prove you wrong.

Your argument is that if he returns within a few days of getting traded that means he was lying. You're essentially saying he would need to sit out the rest of the season if traded to prove he has a mental illness. Really, he could do that if he were lying, it doesn't prove anything and, as far as treatment is concerned, it's a completely arbitrary timetable. If his treatment team says he's ready in a day or a month he still has to wait a year? When he returns if he's traded is entirely meaningless.

A lot of posters in this thread are saying, " If he really had a mental illness he would/wouldn't be doing/saying XYZ.". It's just not based on anything other than personal biases.

[azcatz11]

Simmons has been in therapy for months

For all we know, he’s got real issues

Or maybe he doesn’t

I find it hard to believe that someone would voluntarily go down that route when under no pressure to do so

No one knows what therapy he's been in. Do you think it's more likely he's lying about this or telling the truth?

Fun Fact - You can 1) be in therapy to deal with issues related to your job while 2) DOING YOUR JOB.

I should know. I did it for years.

I think he's scared of playing in Philly. I think he's scared of the fan reaction and doesn't want to deal with it. I think he's not suited to be a professional athlete because of that.

If that's mental illness - you can call it that.

[Tomjas]

If your kid had a test tomorrow morning that you knew he didn't study for and claimed he had the flu when he woke up, would you believe him?

Simmons has been in therapy for months

For all we know, he’s got real issues

Or maybe he doesn’t

I find it hard to believe that someone would voluntarily go down that route when under no pressure to do so

No one knows what therapy he's been in. Do you think it's more likely he's lying about this or telling the truth?

I would be entirely sceptical if not for the obvious warning signs last season and the fact that he’s sought help some time ago

None of us know whether those issues are enough to prevent him from playing

[Nuntius]

How is that even remotely relevant to the topic?
The Sixers have all the rights to check their options and eventually trade Ben if a better option comes out.

And you are extremely moderate on anything about what Ben wants or does, but you don't apply the same method to the team, apparently

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The poster I was quoting in that comment, rickxdel, said that Simmons and his agent are trying to "strong-arm" the Sixers into a trade. I pointed out that this narrative is inaccurate. The Sixers aren't a small-market trying to keep a star that wants out. They are a big market team who already wants to trade away that "star" (whether Ben Simmons should qualify for a star or not is a separate discussion). Trying to paint the Sixers as that kind of team is trying to spin this situation in a way that benefits the Sixers from a PR standpoint.

I get what you are trying to say but it make no sense. Say for argument sake say Kobe in his prime is available for a trade, you would be an idiot to not try to trade for him. Does that mean your actively trading a player or its an opportunity where everyone do the same. If at the time you could trade Simmons for Harden, I doubt one GM doesn't make that move. You are being very disingenuous here.

I'm not blaming the Sixers for trying to trade Simmons for Harden. They had every right to do so and it would be a great move for them.

I am simply saying that this isn't a situation where a small market loses a star that they so desperately want to keep simply because the player wants out. It's not a Kawhi leaving the Spurs, PG leaving Indiana or AD leaving NOLA type of situation. It is a situation where both sides want to move on but the team just hasn't found the deal that they consider right at the moment (which, imo, is their fault since they've been asking for way too much). Pretending that the two situations are similar is what is disingenuous here, imo.

[azcatz11]

Simmons has been in therapy for months

For all we know, he’s got real issues

Or maybe he doesn’t

I find it hard to believe that someone would voluntarily go down that route when under no pressure to do so

No one knows what therapy he's been in. Do you think it's more likely he's lying about this or telling the truth?

I would be entirely sceptical if not for the obvious warning signs last season and the fact that he’s sought help some time ago

None of us know whether those issues are enough to prevent him from playing

@Yoshun

We're arguing in circles here. You all are taking this at face value and I'm not. When there's smoke there's fire. I have no idea if he has mental illness but I'm using circumstantial evidence to build my case. And last I checked, that's acceptable now in a murder trial.

[Nuntius]

How is that even remotely relevant to the topic?
The Sixers have all the rights to check their options and eventually trade Ben if a better option comes out.

And you are extremely moderate on anything about what Ben wants or does, but you don't apply the same method to the team, apparently

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The poster I was quoting in that comment, rickxdel, said that Simmons and his agent are trying to "strong-arm" the Sixers into a trade. I pointed out that this narrative is inaccurate. The Sixers aren't a small-market trying to keep a star that wants out. They are a big market team who already wants to trade away that "star" (whether Ben Simmons should qualify for a star or not is a separate discussion). Trying to paint the Sixers as that kind of team is trying to spin this situation in a way that benefits the Sixers from a PR standpoint.

From both a contract and a business perspective the Sixers have done nothing wrong here.

Ben Simmons is contracturally obligated to play for the Sixers for FOUR MORE SEASONS, for a total compensation of $140 million (more or less). While I am not a contract lawyer, I am sure that Simmons' representation reviewed the terms of the contract before signing it - which includes the right of the team to trade his contract rights to any other team in the NBA.

Simmons has no contractural or business right to demand a trade. He also has no contractural or business right to withhold services while still being paid under the terms of the contract. I am sure that the terms of this contract are standard for the NBA.

I think it is a JOKE to hold the Sixers in any way responsible for Simmons' continued withholding of services. Being a professional athlete is a pretty good gig. Most players are extremely well compensated in return for their contractural services. It is true that, with the financial rewards of being an athlete comes both responsibilities as well as pressure. It appears that Ben Simmons cannot handle the pressure that comes with being a highly visible, high-profile player. I am certainly not trying to make light of this. We have seen many examples of this recently - athletes like Simone Biles and Naomi Osaka have struggled with the pressure that comes with being a high-profile athlete in the most demanding moments in their respective sports: the Olympics, a Grand Slam tennis event, or in Ben SImmons' case, the NBA playoffs.

Ben SImmons signed a contract that will pay him $140 million over the next 4 years. NOWHERE IN THAT CONTRACT does it say that the team cannot engage in trade talks. NOWHERE IN THAT CONTRACT does it say that the head coach or other players cannot criticize him for his play. This is not up for debate.

The Sixers possess Ben SImmons' contractural rights. He is required to play in order to get paid. The SIxers are under NO OBLIGATION to trade him. NONE. Ben Simmons does not possess the contractural rights to withhold his services while still getting paid. And even if Simmons says that he needs mental health support to fulfill his contractural obligations to the Sixers, if Simmons wants to be paid during this treatment, the Sixers are well within their contractural rights to 1) require Simmons to comply with "reasonable" non-game activities commensurate with being a member of the team, and 2) engage in good-faith efforts to structure his mental health treatment in such a way as to get back on the court playing for the Sixers as quickly as possible.

Everything else that is discussed around this is noise. It is ridiculous that the Sixers are perceived as being in the wrong here.

THEY ARE CONTRACTURALLY ALLOWED TO ENGAGE IN TRADE DISCUSSIONS

THEY ARE CONTRACTURALLY ALLOWED TO CHOOSE IF, WHEN, AND WHERE SIMMONS IS TRADED

THERE IS NO CLAUSE IN THE CONTRACT THAT SAYS THAT SIMMONS CANNOT BE CRITICIZED BY HIS COACH FOR HIS PLAY

But you Benablers (you know who you are) keep apologizing for the guy. Just know that the Sixers HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG.

Alright, a few things here:

1) I never said that the Sixers aren't allowed to engage in trade discussions. I'm simply pointing out the fact that this situation isn't a star demanding out of their small-market team. It is a big market team wanting to trade said "star" but only if other teams meet their ridiculous demands. Sorry, no one is giving Philly the 5+ picks for Simmons. It's a travesty that Morey even asked for that ****.

2) I'm not a Ben Simmons fan. Feel free to check my post history. I believe that his utter refusal to take a shot outside the paint is extremely detrimental to his team's offense. I have consistently said that Giannis taking outside jumpers at a low percentage is 100 times than Ben not ever taking any outside jumpers.

3) How I rate Simmons as a player has no bearing on how I view this situation. It could be literally any other NBA player and I would still sing the same tune. Because, at the end of the day, I approach this as an employer-employee scenario and I know that even when you have signed a contract, your employer should have no right to review and oversee sensitive medical information like that.

[Nuntius]

We're arguing semantics here. You're taking him at face value and I'm not. He has a reason to lie about his mental illness and I'm calling BS. If I'm proven wrong and he has some serious stuff going on; I won't take pleasure in it.

Will you admit you were wrong, though? Because a lot of people have yet to admit that they were wrong on Fultz and, in general, people hate to admit that they were wrong.

[Tomjas]

No one knows what therapy he's been in. Do you think it's more likely he's lying about this or telling the truth?

I would be entirely sceptical if not for the obvious warning signs last season and the fact that he’s sought help some time ago

None of us know whether those issues are enough to prevent him from playing

@Yoshun

We're arguing in circles here. You all are taking this at face value and I'm not. When there's smoke there's fire. I have no idea if he has mental illness but I'm using circumstantial evidence to build my case. And last I checked, that's acceptable now in a murder trial.

The weight of circumstantial evidence is on Simmons side as he took a mental health break last season, is in therapy, has a history of mental illness in his family and blind Freddie can see the pressure that he’s under

[Yoshun]

No one knows what therapy he's been in. Do you think it's more likely he's lying about this or telling the truth?

I would be entirely sceptical if not for the obvious warning signs last season and the fact that he’s sought help some time ago

None of us know whether those issues are enough to prevent him from playing

@Yoshun

We're arguing in circles here. You all are taking this at face value and I'm not. When there's smoke there's fire. I have no idea if he has mental illness but I'm using circumstantial evidence to build my case. And last I checked, that's acceptable now in a murder trial.

You provided your logic behind your opinion, I was asking about it. You're argument is based off of the same logic most people in this thread are using over and over again and it basically boils down to:

"If he really had a mental illness he would/wouldn't be doing/saying XYZ."

Me, and several others here, are pointing out why those things simply aren't true. You guys don't know what he would be doing or saying. You don't know when he should or shouldn't be returning to the court.
You guys don't know him, what's going on with him or what symptoms he may be experiencing. If his treatment team does their job, you never will, unless he decides to tell you.

To use your scenario about the kid and claiming he has the flu. Would you just assume he doesn't have the flu? Or would you check his temperature and symptoms before making your decision?

I'm not taking it at face value, I'm not even saying he has a mental Illness. I'm asking about the logic behind saying he doesn't. "I'm just guessing" doesn't really hold much water and creates a potentially toxic environment for people with mental illness. We're just saying "be careful."

[bebopdeluxe]

No one knows what therapy he's been in. Do you think it's more likely he's lying about this or telling the truth?

Fun Fact - You can 1) be in therapy to deal with issues related to your job while 2) DOING YOUR JOB.

I should know. I did it for years.

I think he's scared of playing in Philly. I think he's scared of the fan reaction and doesn't want to deal with it. I think he's not suited to be a professional athlete because of that.

If that's mental illness - you can call it that.

And, to be fair, the signs were there. AAU. LSU.

Hell - it is easy to understand now why he backed out in playing for the Boomers. It is one thing to feel the pressure of a Game 7. It is another to feel the pressure of PLAYING FOR YOUR COUNTRY.

(ask Simone)

Philadelphia fans were incredibly supportive of the guy. We just asked him to work to get better. That is why some people are calling bullcrap now.

[LakersLegacy]

Dwight Howard says he didn’t like how the 76ers are handling it publicly blaming Ben after they lost the series. He said there was plenty of blame to go around and that the organization should have supported Ben. I agree with that despite how poorly Ben has handled it since

[zaz102]

Dwight Howard says he didn’t like how the 76ers are handling it publicly blaming Ben after they lost the series. He said there was plenty of blame to go around and that the organization should have supported Ben. I agree with that despite how poorly Ben has handled it since

Uh, they didn't blame Ben after they lost the series...

[rickxdel]

The point is that nobody knows what is going on so I am not going to make assumptions either way

He might play tomorrow or he might not play for an extended period

Nothing would surprise me at this point

If your kid had a test tomorrow morning that you knew he didn't study for and claimed he had the flu when he woke up, would you believe him?

Simmons has been in therapy for months

For all we know, he’s got real issues

Or maybe he doesn’t

I find it hard to believe that someone would voluntarily go down that route when under no pressure to do so

Normal people see a therapist all the time, so seeing one doesn't automatically presume he was dealing with issues so intense he can't fulfill his duty to play for the Sixers

Also Ben just started seeing the NBAPA therapist during the summer after the trade request, not last year or something. I'm sure Ben and Rich Paul are no slouches and were ready to go to war if they had to in order to get Ben out of Philly. The move to see the NBAPA therapist could've easily been a calculated one.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Your argument is that if he returns within a few days of getting traded that means he was lying. You're essentially saying he would need to sit out the rest of the season if traded to prove he has a mental illness.

not the rest of the season, but mental issues so debilitating that don't allow you to work don't get instantly solved by a change of scenery.
it can be a step in the right direction, but it's always a slow process.



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