Woj: Nets trade Bogdanovic to Wizards

[NatP4]

Lets judge the trade at the end of the season. I agree it matters whether we resign Bojan or not, but would love to make a reasonable run at a conference championship game. If we get there, anything is possible. Bojan gives us that hope in the present at least. I'm going to enjoy that now until the end of the season.

The trade should not simply be judged based on whether or not we resign him at the end of the year. Success this season matters, Chris McCullough's career with the wizards matters, the success of the late 1st round picks in the 2017 draft matters, our free agent signings this offseason due to dumping Andrew Nicholson's contract matter.

[nate33]

Lets judge the trade at the end of the season. I agree it matters whether we resign Bojan or not, but would love to make a reasonable run at a conference championship game. If we get there, anything is possible. Bojan gives us that hope in the present at least. I'm going to enjoy that now until the end of the season.

Agreed.

If the reason we fail to sign Bojan is due to him getting offered $20M from some other team, then we can hardly blame EG for finding someone too good to afford. But if Bojan leaves next year because we are unwilling to cough up, say, $10M to keep him, then the trade would have been a failure because it would have been a 3-month rental.

[bobbeaver]

Ok... I have no idea what they are feeding Bojan Bogdanovic, but in 7 games he's given us at least 3 wins we wouldn't otherwise have. He's shooting 57.5% on three pointers, & I don't think he has missed a single free throw yet as a Wizard! On top of which, last night he grabbed 9 boards, 2 of them on the offensive end, in 29 minutes.

If this is Bojan Bogdanovic, then -- obviously! -- we made a great trade. & lets do anything we can to make sure we keep him (not including letting Otto Porter go).

OTOH -- equally obviously -- if the real Bojan Bogdanovic is his career average numbers, then the trade was meh at best. Worse, in fact.

176 minutes is what he's played; still a very very small sample. But you can't help being excited all the same. Right now he's playing like a superstar. But he doesn't have to do all that to justify the trade. He has plenty of room to retreat on his shooting numbers & still have them be really really good.

As I wrote above, there is no question that his over the top shooting has won us 3 close games we'd have lost otherwise. Can't really be a nay-sayer when a guy does that.

NOOOOOOOOOO, dont say that!!!! You just jinxed him maybe! Recant recant!! he was awesome cause you were negative. He reads your posts and gets hyped cause of it and shows you wrong. Now what will he do? Now Bog doesnt need to smite you or show off his powers. God damn it PIF!!!! lol

Plus who will i argue with now lol

[gambitx777]

Well idk what hes going to go for to be honest, we are not in the market we were in, everyone does't have max rooms anymore and contracts like deng, mozgov, crab, turner, parsons, Mahinmi, and some others will server as a warning to teams making big money offers to players who might not be true big money guys. Bog is in a good place beating up on bench players for over half his minutes. He is really good and I love the trade but im thinking we lock him up for 10 mill or so, if we were smart we would lock him in first, then max otto. lets keep in mind that otto is getting the max because of his skill and level of talent at his age not just over all. He is young and still getting better. Bog is playing the best ball he ever has, but that part of being with us too. so lets see how this plys out, we can keep pretty much everyone, if we are willing to pay the tax, I think that depends on weather we make the ECF or the NBA finals or not. if we get bounced in the second round, i don't see us paying the tax.

[J-Ves]

contracts like deng, mozgov, crab, turner, parsons, Mahinmi, and some others will server as a warning to teams making big money offers to players who might not be true big money guys.

I feel like NBA fans say this every year and every year ridiculous deals are given out.

[stevemcqueen1]

My bottom line is that, if we keep Bojan this summer, the trade was great. If he walks, it was terrible. There isn't really a middle ground. Trading a first round pick for a three month rental is a terrible return, even if that guy is absolutely brilliant for those three months. You need to be getting three or four years of return for first rounders. If we get that from Bojan, then Hell yeah it was a great trade.

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? What if they win the championship on a 50 point Bojan performance in game 7 of the finals and Chris McCullough becomes a perennial MVP?

Terrible trade still lol, no middle ground

What if he scores a thousand points in game seven of the Finals? What if he donates half of his next contract to me? What if his play is so inspiring that Croatia becomes a goodwill ambassador to the world and brings peace to the Middle East?

What if I'm not the one who sounds ridiculous by wasting time talking about absurd hypotheticals that will never happen?

Here, I'll grant you that for the trade to not be terrible upon Bojan walking in free agency, he needs to either power us to a championship or Chris McCullough needs to become a perennial MVP.

[Dark Faze]

Lets judge the trade at the end of the season. I agree it matters whether we resign Bojan or not, but would love to make a reasonable run at a conference championship game. If we get there, anything is possible. Bojan gives us that hope in the present at least. I'm going to enjoy that now until the end of the season.

Agreed.

If the reason we fail to sign Bojan is due to him getting offered $20M from some other team, then we can hardly blame EG for finding someone too good to afford. But if Bojan leaves next year because we are unwilling to cough up, say, $10M to keep him, then the trade would have been a failure because it would have been a 3-month rental.

Evan Turner and Allen Crabbe are the expected and ceiling deals respectively.

I don't know what the line is for an offer for Bogs that would clear Ernie of any blame for not keeping him, but rest assured that that number is quite high, it's definitely not 10, 11, or even 12. The Wizards should match anything 15 and under no question. Above that things start to get murkier.

[bsilver]

My bottom line is that, if we keep Bojan this summer, the trade was great. If he walks, it was terrible. There isn't really a middle ground. Trading a first round pick for a three month rental is a terrible return, even if that guy is absolutely brilliant for those three months. You need to be getting three or four years of return for first rounders. If we get that from Bojan, then Hell yeah it was a great trade.

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? What if they win the championship on a 50 point Bojan performance in game 7 of the finals and Chris McCullough becomes a perennial MVP?

Terrible trade still lol, no middle ground

What if he scores a thousand points in game seven of the Finals? What if he donates half of his next contract to me? What if his play is so inspiring that Croatia becomes a goodwill ambassador to the world and brings peace to the Middle East?

What if I'm not the one who sounds ridiculous by wasting time talking about absurd hypotheticals that will never happen?

Here, I'll grant you that for the trade to not be terrible upon Bojan walking in free agency, he needs to either power us to a championship or Chris McCullough needs to become a perennial MVP.

We did get rid of Nicholson and his 6M contract.
Why does McCullough have to be a star?
Looking at all of EG's non-top 3 picks, they're all busts or bench players. The only one close to a starter is Nick Young, and he's marginal. Why would anyone think picking at about 24, we'd do any better. The odds are greatly against getting a starter quality player.

[Kanyewest]

You also never know how long a teams window is. OKC thought they would have a decade of their young guys playing together and now they only have Westbrook left from that NBA finals team.

Even EG is capable of finding talent later in the draft (Oubre, Young, Booker) and he did manage to trade McGee for Nene. And this is supposed to be a strong draft.

Still, if Bojan walks it may not be a terrible for a few reasons. We were able to dump Nicholson's salary which is probably worth a 2nd rounder. Rentals at the deadline like PJ Tucker got traded for 2nd rounders. Even the Cavs and Raptors traded 1st rounders for players with expiring contracts (Korver and Ibaka).

Of course if Bojan walks this may be considered a mediocre deal but I'm hoping they he can re-sign him on a not too ridiculous contract.


Sent from my LG-D851 using RealGM mobile app

[perempe20]

the Wizards are so strong after the acquisition of Bogdanovic and Jennings.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Read on Twitter

THIS BODES WELL FOR POSTSEASON.

I'm all in on this team.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

You also never know how long a teams window is. OKC thought they would have a decade of their young guys playing together and now they only have Westbrook left from that NBA finals team.

Even EG is capable of finding talent later in the draft (Oubre, Young, Booker) and he did manage to trade McGee for Nene. And this is supposed to be a strong draft.

Still, if Bojan walks it may not be a terrible for a few reasons. We were able to dump Nicholson's salary which is probably worth a 2nd rounder. Rentals at the deadline like PJ Tucker got traded for 2nd rounders. Even the Cavs and Raptors traded 1st rounders for players with expiring contracts (Korver and Ibaka).

Of course if Bojan walks this may be considered a mediocre deal but I'm hoping they he can re-sign him on a not too ridiculous contract.


Sent from my LG-D851 using RealGM mobile app

That guy just made the record books. He's going to be a Wizard a long time. Book it.

[J-Ves]

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? What if they win the championship on a 50 point Bojan performance in game 7 of the finals and Chris McCullough becomes a perennial MVP?

Terrible trade still lol, no middle ground

What if he scores a thousand points in game seven of the Finals? What if he donates half of his next contract to me? What if his play is so inspiring that Croatia becomes a goodwill ambassador to the world and brings peace to the Middle East?

What if I'm not the one who sounds ridiculous by wasting time talking about absurd hypotheticals that will never happen?

Here, I'll grant you that for the trade to not be terrible upon Bojan walking in free agency, he needs to either power us to a championship or Chris McCullough needs to become a perennial MVP.

We did get rid of Nicholson and his 6M contract.
Why does McCullough have to be a star?
Looking at all of EG's non-top 3 picks, they're all busts or bench players. The only one close to a starter is Nick Young, and he's marginal. Why would anyone think picking at about 24, we'd do any better. The odds are greatly against getting a starter quality player.

Even drafting a slightly better than replacement level player has value because of how cheap and long 1st round rookie contracts are. Plus the chance exists, no matter how small, that they end up getting a starter/superstar level player in the early 20s even if it's just by dumb luck.

[doclinkin]

I wouldn't consider it a horrible trade just by itself with the Nets taking on about $20 million for a late first round pick*, but the merit of the trade is to clean up a mess made recently by the very man who's executing the trade.

I'm seeing the whole "bench help" pretext as being a clever ruse.

I do think people are somewhat underrating Bojangles, though. I accidentally forgot to erase the recent Nets game, which I watched a bit of after hearing the rumors. He's not too bad and could easily go up in efficiency if receiving less defensive attention - he can certainly shoot and has some fairly deceptive ability to put the ball on the floor. He is a bad defender, but I think a bigger issue is that he really doesn't look anything like a 2-guard with his body type.

Anyway, the merits of Bojangles seem well secondary to just dumping Nicholson in a manner that's murky enough in basketball terms to confuse at least some of the critics. Classic Grunfeld.

*ok, while also gaining the services of Huckleberry Hound for 3 years.

Mojo Amok = Hoopalotta.

Jesus that was bugging me for a bit.

And I forget the prior screen name too.

[payitforward]

The "context doesn't affect results" argument is of sallow complexion and shallow breath, faintly gripping life's shadow by the drip, drip, drop of a lonely IV. How many more Bo-Buckets games until it needs to be Kevorkian'd?

Indeed. Being an NBA player is not a solo act. The quality of a player's performance is directly impacted by the players he's surrounded by and the role he's asked to play on any given team. I think we're clearly seeing that with Bojan. He hasn't all of a sudden become a better player and scorer. It's all about the "context."

Given that players move around a lot in their careers, isn't this an easy thing to investigate empirically? Wouldn't the facts, whichever direction they pointed, be more convincing than abstract thinking about the subject? Have people done such investigations? Have they concluded that players' productivity doesn't vary much as they go from team to team (once you factor in the typical development > peak > decline arc in players' careers)?

The answer to all these questions is "yes." Unambiguously.

That doesn't mean, of course, that there are no exceptions! Who knows? Maybe Bojan Bogdanovic is one of those exceptions. I'm sure we all hope so!

[payitforward]

My bottom line is that, if we keep Bojan this summer, the trade was great. If he walks, it was terrible. There isn't really a middle ground. Trading a first round pick for a three month rental is a terrible return, even if that guy is absolutely brilliant for those three months. You need to be getting three or four years of return for first rounders. If we get that from Bojan, then Hell yeah it was a great trade.

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? What if they win the championship on a 50 point Bojan performance in game 7 of the finals and Chris McCullough becomes a perennial MVP?

Terrible trade still lol, no middle ground

You want to describe our winning the title this year and Chris McCullough becoming a great player as "middle ground," Nat?

What if we lose in R2 -- say in 7 games, and Bojan plays well -- then leaves in free agency? & Chris McCullough doesn't make it in the league?

How would you view the trade in retrospect if that's what happens, Nat?

[payitforward]

For a fan, the trade has been great so far. We've got 3 wins we wouldn't have otherwise. Those wins alone could well affect our playoff position, & for a fan our playoff position matters -- it can contribute to the season lasting longer; we all want that.

Moreover, I just looked at my bank accounts, & I can see no way in which retaining Bojan, going into the luxury tax, no matter how much it costs, will have any effect on those accounts. For that reason, you bet, I'm all for it! Spend that money, Ted -- &, hey, if it doesn't work out... no problem! I'm still good!

Then again, entering luxury tax territory -- even by a dollar -- costs Ted both the tax itself (some millions of $$) & his portion of the distribution from other teams' luxury tax payments (again that's some millions of $$). In effect, those costs could be thought of as connected to the salary we pay Bojan, right?

Now... if he establishes himself as a player at the level of his first 200 minutes w/ us, he might be worth it! Depending of course on what that results in by way of offers this off-season. But... I hope there aren't a lot fans counting on him playing at superstar level through the rest of his career -- that might be asking a bit much of the guy!

So, I'm in the "lets enjoy this while it lasts" mode that SFAM suggests. Worry about the rest of it later!

[stevemcqueen1]

I wouldn't consider it a horrible trade just by itself with the Nets taking on about $20 million for a late first round pick*, but the merit of the trade is to clean up a mess made recently by the very man who's executing the trade.

I'm seeing the whole "bench help" pretext as being a clever ruse.

I do think people are somewhat underrating Bojangles, though. I accidentally forgot to erase the recent Nets game, which I watched a bit of after hearing the rumors. He's not too bad and could easily go up in efficiency if receiving less defensive attention - he can certainly shoot and has some fairly deceptive ability to put the ball on the floor. He is a bad defender, but I think a bigger issue is that he really doesn't look anything like a 2-guard with his body type.

Anyway, the merits of Bojangles seem well secondary to just dumping Nicholson in a manner that's murky enough in basketball terms to confuse at least some of the critics. Classic Grunfeld.

*ok, while also gaining the services of Huckleberry Hound for 3 years.

Mojo Amok = Hoopalotta.

Jesus that was bugging me for a bit.

And I forget the prior screen name too.

payitforward is my alternate account that I use when I want to be outrageously pessimistic and/or richer and fancier.

milellie11 is the account I use to do the opposite.

AFM is my account for when I want to share my latent homoerotic urges.

[DCZards]

Now... if he establishes himself as a player at the level of his first 200 minutes w/ us, he might be worth it! Depending of course on what that results in by way of offers this off-season. But... I hope there aren't a lot fans counting on him playing at superstar level through the rest of his career -- that might be asking a bit much of the guy!

So, I'm in the "lets enjoy this while it lasts" mode that SFAM suggests. Worry about the rest of it later!

Uh oh, PIF. You're sounding like the patient, wait-and-see fan you accuse me of being. That's scary.

I wrote this a few days ago:

We ought to just enjoy the fact that Bojan is a Wizard and helping our team win games...and worry about his future as a Zard when the time comes. None of us knows for sure what will happen in the future.

[Doug_Blew]

My bottom line is that, if we keep Bojan this summer, the trade was great. If he walks, it was terrible. There isn't really a middle ground. Trading a first round pick for a three month rental is a terrible return, even if that guy is absolutely brilliant for those three months. You need to be getting three or four years of return for first rounders. If we get that from Bojan, then Hell yeah it was a great trade.

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? What if they win the championship on a 50 point Bojan performance in game 7 of the finals and Chris McCullough becomes a perennial MVP?

Terrible trade still lol, no middle ground

You want to describe our winning the title this year and Chris McCullough becoming a great player as "middle ground," Nat?

What if we lose in R2 -- say in 7 games, and Bojan plays well -- then leaves in free agency? & Chris McCullough doesn't make it in the league?

How would you view the trade in retrospect if that's what happens, Nat?

I can't answer for Nat, but i'd still view it as a positive trade.

1) We got out of the Nicholson's contract.
2) We took a shot at advancing further in the playoffs with a legitimate 6th man
3) We took a chance on a late first rounder that is one year ahead of next year's pick

vs. ( If the trade didn't happen)(

1) Taking a chance on a late first round pick that wouldn't have matched what anyone on this board wanted
2) Having slightly less flexibility because of Nicholson's contract.