Gordon Hayward Thread

[ddb]

putting this post in the Hayward Thread but it's actually more about Brad Stevens. Let me preface this by saying that I love Brad Stevens. Obviously, he's a great coach. But for the first time that I can remember, I have a major beef with Coach Stevens. WHY DOES HE STILL HAVE GORDON HAYWARD TWIDDLING HIS THUMBS IN THE CORNERS?????? The Celtics have so much movement/action at the top with guys like Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier, and Marcus Morris. Meanwhile Hayward is standing in the corner. I'm no basketball genius, but I feel like it's pretty obvious that Gordon Hayward needs to be at the top making decisions, being aggressive and making plays. NOT Terry Rozier. NOT Jaylen Brown. Not Marcus Morris. None of those guys can create for others. Hayward can. And none of those guys have the track record scoring that Hayward has either.

THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. WHY BRAD!???

He's passive too. Way too passive.

Problem is that Brad lets Terry run the offense way too much; he's been garbage all season. Terry just shoots the ball every time he gets it. Every f****** time.

Hayward needs to A) Be more selfish and shoot more, we know he's capable and B) Run the offense more. The Celtics' bench offense only works when Terry is a spot-up shooter and not running the offense into the ground.

Yeah too many people outside of the Celtics organization have whispered in Terry's ear that he has arrived and will get his shot. He is playing like he thinks he's better than he is. Not having a good season at all.

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[GoCeltics123]

putting this post in the Hayward Thread but it's actually more about Brad Stevens. Let me preface this by saying that I love Brad Stevens. Obviously, he's a great coach. But for the first time that I can remember, I have a major beef with Coach Stevens. WHY DOES HE STILL HAVE GORDON HAYWARD TWIDDLING HIS THUMBS IN THE CORNERS?????? The Celtics have so much movement/action at the top with guys like Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier, and Marcus Morris. Meanwhile Hayward is standing in the corner. I'm no basketball genius, but I feel like it's pretty obvious that Gordon Hayward needs to be at the top making decisions, being aggressive and making plays. NOT Terry Rozier. NOT Jaylen Brown. Not Marcus Morris. None of those guys can create for others. Hayward can. And none of those guys have the track record scoring that Hayward has either.

THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. WHY BRAD!???

He's passive too. Way too passive.

Problem is that Brad lets Terry run the offense way too much; he's been garbage all season. Terry just shoots the ball every time he gets it. Every f****** time.

Hayward needs to A) Be more selfish and shoot more, we know he's capable and B) Run the offense more. The Celtics' bench offense only works when Terry is a spot-up shooter and not running the offense into the ground.

Yeah too many people outside of the Celtics organization have whispered in Terry's ear that he has arrived and will get his shot. He is playing like he thinks he's better than he is. Not having a good season at all.

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Besides the Sixers, there isn't one team in the league Terry has consistently played well against. Not one.

[Fencer reregistered]

putting this post in the Hayward Thread but it's actually more about Brad Stevens. Let me preface this by saying that I love Brad Stevens. Obviously, he's a great coach. But for the first time that I can remember, I have a major beef with Coach Stevens. WHY DOES HE STILL HAVE GORDON HAYWARD TWIDDLING HIS THUMBS IN THE CORNERS?????? The Celtics have so much movement/action at the top with guys like Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier, and Marcus Morris. Meanwhile Hayward is standing in the corner. I'm no basketball genius, but I feel like it's pretty obvious that Gordon Hayward needs to be at the top making decisions, being aggressive and making plays. NOT Terry Rozier. NOT Jaylen Brown. Not Marcus Morris. None of those guys can create for others. Hayward can. And none of those guys have the track record scoring that Hayward has either.

THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. WHY BRAD!???

To me, the principal distributor should be whichever of Smart or Hayward is on the floor. Those are the guys I'm happiest with in that role. Obviously, Irving can also be good at it, but it's even better if he's a secondary in the role. Horford and Rozier are both capable of putting up great A/TO numbers, suggesting they can make good secondary distributors too.

But the guys who combine physical PG skills and BB IQ in the most complete packages are Smart and Hayward.

[ddb]

putting this post in the Hayward Thread but it's actually more about Brad Stevens. Let me preface this by saying that I love Brad Stevens. Obviously, he's a great coach. But for the first time that I can remember, I have a major beef with Coach Stevens. WHY DOES HE STILL HAVE GORDON HAYWARD TWIDDLING HIS THUMBS IN THE CORNERS?????? The Celtics have so much movement/action at the top with guys like Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier, and Marcus Morris. Meanwhile Hayward is standing in the corner. I'm no basketball genius, but I feel like it's pretty obvious that Gordon Hayward needs to be at the top making decisions, being aggressive and making plays. NOT Terry Rozier. NOT Jaylen Brown. Not Marcus Morris. None of those guys can create for others. Hayward can. And none of those guys have the track record scoring that Hayward has either.

THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. WHY BRAD!???

To me, the principal distributor should be whichever of Smart or Hayward is on the floor. Those are the guys I'm happiest with in that role. Obviously, Irving can also be good at it, but it's even better if he's a secondary in the role. Horford and Rozier are both capable of putting up great A/TO numbers, suggesting they can make good secondary distributors too.

But the guys who combine physical PG skills and BB IQ in the most complete packages are Smart and Hayward.

I'm just so sick of this team and their let downs. They are so bi polar. (No offense to anyone bi polar. I have a close family member who I love dearly that is bi polar. )

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[Jakeopp]

putting this post in the Hayward Thread but it's actually more about Brad Stevens. Let me preface this by saying that I love Brad Stevens. Obviously, he's a great coach. But for the first time that I can remember, I have a major beef with Coach Stevens. WHY DOES HE STILL HAVE GORDON HAYWARD TWIDDLING HIS THUMBS IN THE CORNERS?????? The Celtics have so much movement/action at the top with guys like Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier, and Marcus Morris. Meanwhile Hayward is standing in the corner. I'm no basketball genius, but I feel like it's pretty obvious that Gordon Hayward needs to be at the top making decisions, being aggressive and making plays. NOT Terry Rozier. NOT Jaylen Brown. Not Marcus Morris. None of those guys can create for others. Hayward can. And none of those guys have the track record scoring that Hayward has either.

THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. WHY BRAD!???

I feel like a lot of Terry Rozier criticism comes as a result of this. I'd like to see Hayward run the point with the second unit.

[La Flame]

He should be starting at Point now and run Kyrie at the 2. Kyrie came here to be a lead guard but it's clear he's best deployed as an Iverson/Kobe like weapon

Not a bad idea tbh. Hayward's playmaking is pretty good, idk why it isn't utilized more. Gordon as the main playmaker would open the game up to attack the basket much more for him too playing off of Kyrie and Al.

[shawn unkempt]

How much will it cost us to dump this albatross?

[Homerclease]

How much will it cost us to dump this albatross?

Nothing, they aren’t dumping him.

[aim2please]

17 points... in last 3 games combined. lel

[K For Three]

So can people stop the nonsense he's better without Kyrie? Been reading that for two weeks and it's disgusting. Kyrie was with Gordon when he had a big game in Minnesota and several good games this year.

If anything Gordon should be used more WITH Kyrie and they should be allowed to develop chemistry.

I know the Gordon thing looks shaky, but we treat him at times like he is a scrub so eventually he starts to believe he himself is a scrub.

[Red2]

Nothing has gone right for us this year . I hope Gordon can find his game . We need him to play better and for his sake he needs to play better as well

[Curmudgeon]

So can people stop the nonsense he's better without Kyrie? Been reading that for two weeks and it's disgusting. Kyrie was with Gordon when he had a big game in Minnesota and several good games this year.

If anything Gordon should be used more WITH Kyrie and they should be allowed to develop chemistry.

I know the Gordon thing looks shaky, but we treat him at times like he is a scrub so eventually he starts to believe he himself is a scrub.

He's treated like a scrub because for the most part he's playing like a scrub. He's had a very long leash, but it's time to put him on the DL and tell him to rehab for next year. 80% of the time he's hurting the team when he's on the floor. It isn't just the missed shots, it's the lackadasical defense.

[K For Three]

So can people stop the nonsense he's better without Kyrie? Been reading that for two weeks and it's disgusting. Kyrie was with Gordon when he had a big game in Minnesota and several good games this year.

If anything Gordon should be used more WITH Kyrie and they should be allowed to develop chemistry.

I know the Gordon thing looks shaky, but we treat him at times like he is a scrub so eventually he starts to believe he himself is a scrub.

He's treated like a scrub because for the most part he's playing like a scrub. He's has a very long leash, but it's time to put him on the DL and tell him to rehab for next year. 80% of the time he's hurting the team when he's on the floor.

I am trying to have faith in him. I admit it can be rough at times. But I just wish there was some way the team could make him better or put him in a better position, I don't even know.....

[Curmudgeon]

Put him on the DL and tell him to get ready for next year. He's a $31M scrub who is taking minutes away from more deserving players.

[djFan71]

Put him on the DL and tell him to get ready for next year. He's a $31M scrub who is taking minutes away from more deserving players.

How does he get ready for next year on the DL? He needs reps, and it sucks sometimes, but there have been plenty of games where he's been quite productive (and not just the MN games). Maybe 40% of them at this point??? This was always gonna be an awkward year, exacerbated by the min crunch. But giving Gordon time to get better is one of the paths to this team becoming better. Come playoff time if he's still like this, then his *** needs to sit, but for now you gotta get him his 20ish minutes per game. I don't think he should be out there closing, though, unless it's one of his really on games.

[GQ Hot Dog]

Maybe this is what he is? You got to remember he was a playmaker and scorer on a Utah team with no playmakers and mediocre scorers. Maybe on a team with as much depth and talent as Boston has, his abilities just aren't good enough to shine through? He provided just enough offense alongside the team's great defense to make them successful but he isn't actually a great offensive player.

[soxfan2003]

Put him on the DL and tell him to get ready for next year. He's a $31M scrub who is taking minutes away from more deserving players.

How does he get ready for next year on the DL? He needs reps, and it sucks sometimes, but there have been plenty of games where he's been quite productive (and not just the MN games). Maybe 40% of them at this point??? This was always gonna be an awkward year, exacerbated by the min crunch. But giving Gordon time to get better is one of the paths to this team becoming better. Come playoff time if he's still like this, then his *** needs to sit, but for now you gotta get him his 20ish minutes per game. I don't think he should be out there closing, though, unless it's one of his really on games.

Hayward before his injury was obviously no all time great NBA basketball player but I still remember Michael Jordan coming back from his foot injury. And not playing well during regular season by his super lofty standards in a short stint back -- granted he didn't play many games at all -- but then turning it up 3 levels by the playoffs and playing at an all time great level.

Veteran NBA players like Hayward and basketball players in general are not idiots when it comes to the difference between regular season and playoff basketball. He recognizes peaking for playoffs and being healthy for them is around 100 times more important than this particular regular season.

If Hayward had a stronger than expected regular season but a bad playoffs, Celtics fans would not be happy with his overall year.
But meh regular season combined with very good playoffs gives the Celtics a chance if other players can contribute at a very good level. And Celtics fans will be happy with that.

NFL regular season is much more fun to watch than NBA at this point simply because the games are much more meaningful with first round byes at stake and HCA much more meaningful. If NBA fixed the game by just having 6 teams from each conference make playoffs and a shorter first round series of let's say 5 games, a shorter 72 game season and having first round bye for 2 best teams in each conference, I'd be for Celtics playing with a sense of urgency in regular season to get one of those first round byes.

But that NBA ended a long time ago. Warriors not winning it all with 72 wins shows you the importance of regular season in the age of analytics and 4 rounds of 7 game series for all of the playoff teams.

Like some others on this forum, I knew the "small ball" Celtics that Ainge/Stevens created were regular season frauds. This Celtics team is the opposite. They still have a legit shot to be a great team in the playoffs. And yes, Hayward needs to be a big part of that.

Horford goes out with a season ending injury then I obviously become a lot less optimistic. Same goes with Kyrie/Hayward/Tatum/Smart et cetera. Baynes is no great player but he needs to come back for playoffs to provide toughness that Celtics will need on occasion.

[soxfan2003]

Maybe this is what he is? You got to remember he was a playmaker and scorer on a Utah team with no playmakers and mediocre scorers. Maybe on a team with as much depth and talent as Boston has, his abilities just aren't good enough to shine through? He provided just enough offense alongside the team's great defense to make them successful but he isn't actually a great offensive player.

Hayward looked pretty darn great in the playoffs when he was last in them. The guy was a legit star before his injury.

If Hayward was on this Celtics team and hadn't suffered his injury, he would be doing great right now. He has admitted that he is still working his way back athletically and isn't there athletically in terms of jumping off his injured ankle. The guy isn't finishing near the rim/attacking the basket like he used to and that is understandable given his gruesome injury and having to work his way back from it.

Now it is true that even without his injury, chances are Hayward would not be quite as athletic at let's say 28/29 than even 26/27 but this significant drop off is from injury.

With more talent on offense surrounding him and less of a burden to score, Hayward should actually be more efficient offensively in terms of shooting and not less efficient.

[Edug27]

How much will it cost us to dump this albatross?

Nothing, they aren’t dumping him.

They probably couldn’t even if they tried.

[soxfan2003]

Put him on the DL and tell him to get ready for next year. He's a $31M scrub who is taking minutes away from more deserving players.

Hayward is only a former western conference all star who led his team in the playoffs when he was last in them. Utah won a series.

Playoff Hayward if 100% healthy would arguably be the best player on the Celtics. Not the best asset in terms of trade value since Tatum deserves that label. Not best scorer since that would obviously go to Kyrie but as an all around player it would probably be him or playoff Horford.

Once again, guy showed he was a legit _western conference_ all star when he was last in the playoffs. Now whether or not he ever makes it all of the way back like Paul George has done is a big question mark. I have no crystal ball on that one and Hayward himself may not even know. But I dam well no that games in mid January are pretty darn meaningless and that is why Stevens is so quick to rest injured/sick players during these games.

Grant Hill comes to mind have struggled after injuries but the Celtics have nothing to lose by continuing to play Hayward during the regular season as long as they are not making his ankle worse for the long term.

If Hayward is never going to come back fully from his injury, it is best for the Celtics to know that ASAP. I think having him play this year and in the playoffs will give some preliminary indication.