Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[bennjuiced34]

I'm not sure I like that Jimmy said this to the media, but I do like at least knowing he feels how this team is playing hasn't been good enough. I don't want the best player on my team just happy and accepting of being a middle of the pack playoff team with no higher prospects, and no one else on the team - coaches or players - desiring of anything more.

I doubt anyone on the team is happy to be a middle of the pack team, but one of them are going to throw teammates and coaches under the bus to show it.

That's the issue. To be honest, he's acting a bit like Brandon Marshall. Brandon also cared quite a bit, but he had multiple episodes where he exploded in the locker room to coaches and teammates. He also threw Jay under the bus late last year to the media.

Going on tirades, cursing out coaches, calling names to the media. That's not leadership.

I don't think Jimmy is the cancer Brandon was though and I think this can be corrected. If he expects this type of leadership though will get guys to follow him, he's sorely mistaken.



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[Axl Rose]

Jimmy is the fu*king rat *mobster voice*

the signs have been there but we chose to ignore them because hes plays so well. but his actions have been questionable and it started to show through last season and now its coming out...Jimmy's head has got way to big for his own good

i don't know if he thinks running his mouth like hes some fu*king basketball savant is being a good leader or not. but he needs to humble himself *Ben Gordon voice*

don't think i forgot that little dinner you had with Thibodeau at Gibsons either!!! that was clearly an art of war move and im about 2 seconds from saying send your ass to Philly or Sacramento to let you rot in those hell holes

[musiqsoulchild]

If we are trending below second round, we'll make a pure salary dump of a non- essential big and save on payroll and LT.

This FO always comes out on top.

You really shouldn't be wishing for the nuclear option. It maybe nuclear for us that the Bulls don't make the playoffs - they'll just adjust the P/L by salary dumping a good player.

The championship or bust folks lose either way.

They could win more by finding a move that preserves at least the 2nd round.

But with their history of trades... yeah probably beyond their competence.

Yup.

So, don't clamor for something that the Financial team is already itching to do.

[DarthDiggler69]

If Jimmy thinks he can call out his teammates like LeBron did a while ago and expects them to start playing better, he's dead wrong. He might be the Bulls best player and he rightfully deserves recognition for that, but what exactly has he achieved in the NBA that would excuse him of such behavior? Respect and leadership isn't earned that way, that's for sure. If you're so sick of (some of) your team mates, go win those games on your own then.

Butler needs rings or at least an MVP to be on that level, for all we know his teammates may be rolling their eyes on his leadership hence probably why hes saying Hoiberg needs to keep them in line

[fleet]

I am wondering if Jimmy is alone on this, part of his frustration. Nobody has backed him up, not even pc pr wise, and Noah rejected his thoughts. I doubt Pau Rose Noah Taj Kirk are on board.

Pau has basically said the same thing as Jimmy right after the Clippers game

[Rerisen]

Who are the sources of those quotes? Did Michael say those things publicly to the media, or were they reported well after he was done playing in some tell-all book? Because I never recall reading any of them?

Most have been kicking around for a long time. Some are from like The Jordan Rules and such. Some are sourced here.

Is every single one legit, I don't really know, but I bet most are knowing Michael.

[musiqsoulchild]

The bigger issue for me is not that Jimmy said something about the coach or the FO.

It's his direct, repeated accusations about his teammates not playing hard.

Just last week Taj took exception to what Jimmy said. Now we've heard of Noah.

Taj and Noah - that's all you need to know that Jimmy messed up.

[Stratmaster]

I am wondering if Jimmy is alone on this, part of his frustration. Nobody has backed him up, not even pc pr wise, and Noah rejected his thoughts. I doubt Pau Rose Noah Taj Kirk are on board.

Pau has basically said the same thing as Jimmy right after the Clippers game

He said Fred Hoiberg is too laid-back and isn't coaching hard enough? really?

[Red Larrivee]

Him saying this probably wasn't good, but in terms of "Do Your Job" Jimmy is about the only person I would give a passing grade to this year among the team, coaching staff and FO.

The FO did nothing to improve the team, Fred has showing nothing about getting this team to buy in. The defense has been great, but that is probably Jim Boylen, who is the Associate Head Coach, managing the defense.

And the rest of the players have all regressed or playing worse than last year, except Doug.

You're not wrong about most of those things, but none of this gives Jimmy any right to throw coaches and teammates under the bus. It's as simple as that.

There was nothing stopping Jimmy from answering the question without putting his foot in his mouth and meeting with Hoiberg today (as he did) and saying what he had to say there.

[TheAdmiral]

can someone post the full article so we don't have to sign up for the Tribune trial? Jesus.

Check your PM.

[Stratmaster]

The bigger issue for me is not that Jimmy said something about the coach or the FO.

It's his direct, repeated accusations about his teammates not playing hard.

Just last week Taj took exception to what Jimmy said. Now we've heard of Noah.

Taj and Noah - that's all you need to know that Jimmy messed up.

Yep. For those two to feel that way tells you Jimmy has put himself alone on an island. the scary thing is, he thinks he is good enough that he will still win out in his quest to be the leader.

[Rerisen]

Yup.

So, don't clamor for something that the Financial team is already itching to do.

Nothing I say will change it either way.

Best hope is Jimmy wakes up Fred, helps him feel his oats to really own the head coaching role. His teammates get fired up, even if mad at Jimmy, and the team improves enough where the FO thinks about trying to add to help them.

[fleet]

I am wondering if Jimmy is alone on this, part of his frustration. Nobody has backed him up, not even pc pr wise, and Noah rejected his thoughts. I doubt Pau Rose Noah Taj Kirk are on board.

Pau has basically said the same thing as Jimmy right after the Clippers game

He said Fred Hoiberg is too laid-back and isn't coaching hard enough? really?

He said the Bulls were too soft. to paraphrase

[DarthDiggler69]

Who are the sources of those quotes? Did Michael say those things publicly to the media, or were they reported well after he was done playing in some tell-all book? Because I never recall reading any of them?

Most have been kicking around for a long time. Some are from like The Jordan Rules and such. Some are sourced here.

Is every single one legit, I don't really know, but I bet most are knowing Michael.

That was Jordan, before he was winning titles he was the best player in the league. Butler isn't even top 10 in this league and on the roster hes got a former MVP, a 4th placer in MVP and a guy with two rings he has to lead

[Rerisen]

Just last week Taj took exception to what Jimmy said. Now we've heard of Noah.

Taj and Noah - that's all you need to know that Jimmy messed up.

They took exception to Thibs saying such things too.

But either they were wrong, or one of the reasons people wanted Thibs gone (and maybe a reason he was gone) was not true.

That being that he lost the team or they quit effort wise on him. Can't both be true. And if it was true then, its probably still true now.

[Stratmaster]

Who are the sources of those quotes? Did Michael say those things publicly to the media, or were they reported well after he was done playing in some tell-all book? Because I never recall reading any of them?

Most have been kicking around for a long time. Some are from like The Jordan Rules and such. Some are sourced here.

Is every single one legit, I don't really know, but I bet most are knowing Michael.

I'm not questioning whether they were said or not. But they were said privately, usually to the player's face. Jordan was known for his trash talking and acting like an ass. But he didn't say those things to ESPN and the Chicago media publicly after a game.

Apples and Kumquats.

[RememberLu]

So whats going on, we trading Jimmy? Firing GarPax? Whats happening with this franchise now, I'm so confused.

[JeremyB0001]

Has it crossed your mind that instead of me being biased against him, I have just been right all along?

As far as your numbers, you are just picking and choosing. Hell, I love your use of the word "outstanding". Really? A 57.8% TS, which is only slightly above league average is outstanding? Its pretty clear you are the biased one incapable of being objective on this.

No, it's never occurred to me. The reason why is that most every post of yours on this subject has a factual mischaracterization that borders on the absurd. For instance, here you're claiming that a 57.8% TS% is not good, it's "only slightly above league average." That mark would have been 49th out of 366 qualifying players last season. So, 13th percentile. And that's before considering that many of those players shoot at a much lower volume than Mirotic did last season, making that number easier to achieve. You're telling me to stop and consider that I'm the clearly the biased one because I don't realize that a figure that's in the 13th percentile is barely above average and obviously not outstanding. I'm supposed to react to that by questioning my views and thinking that I'm probably wrong? I can't. I can only conclude that your bias runs very deep here and that it's hard for you to speak credibly on this subject.

[Rerisen]

You're not wrong about most of those things, but none of this gives Jimmy any right to throw coaches and teammates under the bus. It's as simple as that.

There was nothing stopping Jimmy from answering the question without putting his foot in his mouth and meeting with Hoiberg today (as he did) and saying what he had to say there.

I didn't say he was right. I said punish him. If they dare.

Suspension or fine is easy enough.

Then we can get to the bigger issue, addressing what he said about the team and why it is happening.

[NecessaryEvil]

The bigger issue for me is not that Jimmy said something about the coach or the FO.

It's his direct, repeated accusations about his teammates not playing hard.

Just last week Taj took exception to what Jimmy said. Now we've heard of Noah.

Taj and Noah - that's all you need to know that Jimmy messed up.

What say SAY?!