The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason

[saintEscaton]

Booker has definitely surpassed his scouting report and has achieved scoring milestones that put him in great company, but nothing suggests that he is having a historic rookie campaign by any stretch. The "eye test" simply isn't enough, just because KD was putting similar numbers with slightly worse effeciency doesn't mean you can expect that kind of career trajectory.At the same time I'm not saying he will be a Tyreke Evans flash in the pan, its just way too early to prognosticate with any certainty.

[thamadkant]

I would not even trade Booker straight up for George. I would hang up the phone. Idk about anyone else but I expect Booker to be a top ten player in basketball within a couple years.

Hold your horses. I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here

He will be.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Sadly speculation loses over evidence when it comes to convincing other professionals... Unless you work in real estate.

[bwgood77]

Jimmy Butler or Paul George won't make a dent against the top two west teams right now anyway....zero reason to deplete our young guys and picks for them even if we could because building organically will build our team the right way and build a TEAM that grew together as a TEAM.

[DirtyDez]

Hold your horses. I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here

He will be.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Sadly speculation loses over evidence when it comes to convincing other professionals... Unless you work in real estate.

I think Booker could be a top-10 offensive player in the league with some seasoning and strength. It will also depend on the parts around him... I love the Brook Lopez idea. Need some kind offensive threat down low to take the pressure off.

[letsgosuns]

Idk what some of you guys are talking about when it comes to what it takes to get a superstar. Look at trades throughout history and name me one trade where it took multiple top first round picks AND multiple young players with lots of potential to get it done. It does not happen.

Like the Carmelo Anthony trade. The Knicks traded a bunch of random young players (nowhere near the talent Booker has shown in his first year), 2 second round picks, and one first round pick. Out of everything the Knicks traded for Carmelo, nothing even compares to a top three pick which is hopefully what the Suns will have. And oh yeah, the Knicks also got Billups and other players in the deal as well. And I do not put George on the level of 2011 Carmelo. Yet some of you guys are saying it would take every asset the Suns have including Booker. Where are you getting this?

What do you guys think Paul George or Jimmy Butler are? Michael Jordan? What did it take from the Suns to get Charles Barkley. Jeff Hornacek and two throw-ins. Not even a draft pick. And Barkley was a far better player than anybody available in the league today. Remember when the Suns traded Marbury in his prime for virtually nothing but cap space? See what I am trying to say. Maybe some of you guys do not realize how valuable assets like top draft picks are in this league.

[bwgood77]

Idk what some of you guys are talking about when it comes to what it takes to get a superstar. Look at trades throughout history and name me one trade where it took multiple top first round picks AND multiple young players with lots of potential to get it done. It does not happen.

Like the Carmelo Anthony trade. The Knicks traded a bunch of random young players (nowhere near the talent Booker has shown in his first year), 2 second round picks, and one first round pick. Out of everything the Knicks traded for Carmelo, nothing even compares to a top three pick which is hopefully what the Suns will have. And oh yeah, the Knicks also got Billups and other players in the deal as well. And I do not put George on the level of 2011 Carmelo. Yet some of you guys are saying it would take every asset the Suns have including Booker. Where are you getting this?

What do you guys think Paul George or Jimmy Butler are? Michael Jordan? What did it take from the Suns to get Charles Barkley. Jeff Hornacek and two throw-ins. Not even a draft pick. And Barkley was a far better player than anybody available in the league today. Remember when the Suns traded Marbury in his prime for virtually nothing but cap space? See what I am trying to say. Maybe some of you guys do not realize how valuable assets like top draft picks are in this league.

No, you are failing to fully comprehend people's posts that stars under long term contracts don't get traded in such deals. The Knicks were actually stupid to give up that much for Melo, because he made it clear he was leaving Denver and would have went to NY anyway in FA. Brush up on your history. Like I said, it would take a lot to pry a guy under contract for more than a year and a half left. Melo made NY make a panic trade, and made it clear he wanted max money so they traded for him so he could GET that full max contract and not the lesser contract you sign with another team that doesn't have your bird rights.

[DirtyDez]

Idk what some of you guys are talking about when it comes to what it takes to get a superstar. Look at trades throughout history and name me one trade where it took multiple top first round picks AND multiple young players with lots of potential to get it done. It does not happen.

Like the Carmelo Anthony trade. The Knicks traded a bunch of random young players (nowhere near the talent Booker has shown in his first year), 2 second round picks, and one first round pick. Out of everything the Knicks traded for Carmelo, nothing even compares to a top three pick which is hopefully what the Suns will have. And oh yeah, the Knicks also got Billups and other players in the deal as well. And I do not put George on the level of 2011 Carmelo. Yet some of you guys are saying it would take every asset the Suns have including Booker. Where are you getting this?

What do you guys think Paul George or Jimmy Butler are? Michael Jordan? What did it take from the Suns to get Charles Barkley. Jeff Hornacek and two throw-ins. Not even a draft pick. And Barkley was a far better player than anybody available in the league today. Remember when the Suns traded Marbury in his prime for virtually nothing but cap space? See what I am trying to say. Maybe some of you guys do not realize how valuable assets like top draft picks are in this league.

Melo and Dwight had to be traded so their team could get something. They had no choice but to accept a less than stellar package. Paul George and Jimmy Butler on long term deals. Unlike the Nuggets/Magic the Pacers/Bulls are in a position of power. Neither one of them is demanding a trade either (like Dwight/Melo basically were).

Guys with a year remaining like Griffin would cost less but it's risky.

[asudevil]

Idk what some of you guys are talking about when it comes to what it takes to get a superstar. Look at trades throughout history and name me one trade where it took multiple top first round picks AND multiple young players with lots of potential to get it done. It does not happen.

Like the Carmelo Anthony trade. The Knicks traded a bunch of random young players (nowhere near the talent Booker has shown in his first year), 2 second round picks, and one first round pick. Out of everything the Knicks traded for Carmelo, nothing even compares to a top three pick which is hopefully what the Suns will have. And oh yeah, the Knicks also got Billups and other players in the deal as well. And I do not put George on the level of 2011 Carmelo. Yet some of you guys are saying it would take every asset the Suns have including Booker. Where are you getting this?

What do you guys think Paul George or Jimmy Butler are? Michael Jordan? What did it take from the Suns to get Charles Barkley. Jeff Hornacek and two throw-ins. Not even a draft pick. And Barkley was a far better player than anybody available in the league today. Remember when the Suns traded Marbury in his prime for virtually nothing but cap space? See what I am trying to say. Maybe some of you guys do not realize how valuable assets like top draft picks are in this league.

No, you are failing to fully comprehend people's posts that stars under long term contracts don't get traded in such deals. The Knicks were actually stupid to give up that much for Melo, because he made it clear he was leaving Denver and would have went to NY anyway in FA. Brush up on your history. Like I said, it would take a lot to pry a guy under contract for more than a year and a half left. Melo made NY make a panic trade, and made it clear he wanted max money so they traded for him so he could GET that full max contract and not the lesser contract you sign with another team that doesn't have your bird rights.

I understand what you are saying....but there have been a few BIG name guys who have been traded with 2 or more years remaining on their contract. And the value those teams got back for them was paltry compared to the crazy that has been thrown around.

KG 2 years remaining - Al Jefferson/2x PROTECTED FIRSTS
Shaq 2 years remaining - Odom/Butler/LATE FIRST
Gasol 4 years remaining - Kwame/2 LATE FIRSTS
Deron 2 years remaining - Favors/Harris/2 Firsts (arguably a horrid trade for the nets)
Ray Allen - 2 years remaining - #5 pick

I'm willing to admit that in these cases they players more or less wanted out of their situation. And i honestly cant think of a trade off the top of my head where a top 20 players was traded from a GOOD situation just because. Stars are traded when teams are trending DOWN DOWN, players who are not happy, or teams that just cant pick themselves up from the bottom of the barrel.

So at this point in time guys like Paul George are going to be off the table. It just doesnt make sense for the Pacers to trade him. Same with Anthony Davis.....sure the team has sucked, but everyone is injured.

BUT there are plenty of situations where a star player is likely to be traded this offseason IMO.

Harden
Cousins
Love
Melo
Wall
Butler
Lopez
Gallinari

Those kinds of guys could be had.....and it wont take 4 Firsts/2 youngsters to get them.

[letsgosuns]

That is exactly what I am talking about asudevil. And Garnett actually agreed to a three year extension with the Celtics at the time of the trade. So the Celtics were trading for five years of Garnett. And what did the Timberwolves get in return? A bunch of mediocre young players and protected picks. This is Kevin Garnett we are talking about. Still in his prime too.

So before you guys think certain players are off the table and/or require these mega packages to trade for, do not forget what history shows happening. Vince Carter got traded to the Nets in 2004 for very little. I remember so many news outlets reporting they could not believe that the Raptors let him go for such a weak package.

Sometimes teams just go in a different direction. Like I said earlier, the Suns traded Marbury for pretty much a bunch of expiring contracts and two picks they did not even keep. Marbury was an all star in his prime and the Suns dumped him because they wanted the cap space instead. You never know what a team is going to do. Maybe the Rockets want to move on from James Harden. Maybe the Pacers do not play well in the playoffs and George asks off the team. Maybe John Wall asks to be dealt. Who knows. The point is that anything can happen and teams that own a top 3 pick have the type of asset that other teams truly want.

[Grits n Gravy]

Hi guys

T'Wolves fan coming in peace. Have a few questions for you.

1. Myself and quite a few Wolves fans are extremely high on Bender and view him as the perfect compliment and final piece of our future starting line up. Assuming the lottery positions stay where they are, what(if anything) would you expect from us to move down 2 places from #3 to #5? Are you firmly against this?

2. How high are you guys on Bogdan Bogdanovic? What(if anything) would you expect or want from the Wolves in exchange for him?

Cheers

[Saberestar]

Hi guys

T'Wolves fan coming in peace. Have a few questions for you.

1. Myself and quite a few Wolves fans are extremely high on Bender and view him as the perfect compliment and final piece of our future starting line up. Assuming the lottery positions stay where they are, what(if anything) would you expect from us to move down 2 places from #3 to #5? Are you firmly against this?

2. How high are you guys on Bogdan Bogdanovic? What(if anything) would you expect or want from the Wolves in exchange for him?

Cheers

I think that our GM, Ryan McDonough, is really high about Bender.

Suns asssistant GM Pat Connelly had a meeting around one week ago with Maccabi Tel Aviv to talk about Bender and his clause out option.

McDonough has selected two european players out of his six selections in the first round (Len, even though he played two seasons at Maryland, and Bogdanovic), so he is not afraid about picking european prospects. And all of those six first round picks were not juniors or seniors...he loves to get young prospects and Bender is the youngest of all of them in the next draft.

It's not necessary to mention that we need a good PF on our roster, so he fits perfectly with our core.

If we are #3 in the draft I think we go Bender all the way, so we are not going to trade down.

Regarding Bogdanovic, our intention is to work on a contract this summer to bring him next season.
I do not think his rights are on the trade block but if he is available the price would be really high.

[asudevil]

Hi guys

T'Wolves fan coming in peace. Have a few questions for you.

1. Myself and quite a few Wolves fans are extremely high on Bender and view him as the perfect compliment and final piece of our future starting line up. Assuming the lottery positions stay where they are, what(if anything) would you expect from us to move down 2 places from #3 to #5? Are you firmly against this?

2. How high are you guys on Bogdan Bogdanovic? What(if anything) would you expect or want from the Wolves in exchange for him?

Cheers

I'm not at all certain of Bender's status, or his willingness to come over from Europe next season. BUT, i do know one thing. The suns have no PF on the roster next year as of right now. So, if a.) Bender is the player he's made out to be...b.) the suns are high on him....c.) he wants to play in the nba next season or the year after........then the wolves should look elsewhere.

Also, just as a quick glance at the wolves roster, they dont have a whole lot in trade-able pieces. Its either players they are extremely high on, or a poo-poo platter. Outside of Towns/Lavine/Rubio/Wiggins, there is Shabazz/Dieng.....everything else is, well, easily replaceable.

Dieng is nice for sure....but he's worth more than two draft slots. And making a complicated trade, negates its purpose because the suns have Len/Chandler.

So, when it comes down to it, i suppose there is ONLY one simple trade between the two IF the suns think the guy they want is available at #5

Suns trade:
#3/#28
Wolves trade:
Shabazz/#5

Anything outside of that is more complicated than anyone here should even discuss as possible.

And as far as Bogdan...IMO he's off limits. The risk vs. reward is too much to include him as a throw-in in any potential trade with anybody. The way i see it....IF he's a sticking point when it comes to any trade, nobody will be willing to give up the same value as they see in him potentially returning.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Hi guys

T'Wolves fan coming in peace. Have a few questions for you.

1. Myself and quite a few Wolves fans are extremely high on Bender and view him as the perfect compliment and final piece of our future starting line up. Assuming the lottery positions stay where they are, what(if anything) would you expect from us to move down 2 places from #3 to #5? Are you firmly against this?

2. How high are you guys on Bogdan Bogdanovic? What(if anything) would you expect or want from the Wolves in exchange for him?

Cheers

This presents a conundrum. If your scouts like Bender, odds are good that ours do too. In which case there wouldn't be much you could give. Our biggest hole is the 4 spot. If we move down to 5, the best players on the board are all 2's. After Bender, it's Chriss, Ellenson, Rabb, Davis and Sabonis in some order - most or all of whom should be available at 7, 8, 9... even down to 13, where we have another pick. So it's tough to envision us as trade partners.

Shabazz is not enough to get us to move. That leaves LaVine, Rubio, KAT, Dieng and Wiggins as the valuable players in whom we might be interested. KAT is the most valuable player in the league, so no deal could even theoretically be struck there. No way you guys give up Wiggins or LaVine without our giving up Booker - a non-starter for both sides. Rubio might get the talks going, as lots of us would love to see a pass-first point guard here, but I just can't imagine us swapping picks and point guards. That leaves Dieng. Is Dieng enough for us to move back? I think it's as simple as - if you're willing to move him, we're probably not willing to take him.

Because of where #5 puts us, we'd probably be inclined to move back even further. But any team who has assets enough to make it enticing for us to move back should theoretically prefer the #3 to #5. This is all to say, we make tough trade partners. So, do you have something in mind?

We're all excited to see Bogdan, but we have no idea what he could be. He's already 24, so he's probably not far from the player he will be in his prime. Unlikely that he's an NBA starter, imo. My guess is he could be had - but again, what makes sense between us?

Truth is, we're probably your biggest rivals going forward. We both have talented young cores. Imo, I'd put Booker and Warren against Wiggins and LaVine and call it pretty even. We've got a few more assets to play with (Bled, Knight, Chandler, Heat picks, 3 picks in this upcoming draft, Bogdan, Archie) than you (Rubio, Dieng, Muhammad, Payne, Bjelica, 1 pick in this upcoming draft and -1 pick in the future). The big difference, obviously, is KAT vs. Len. No competition there. If we want to beat you when we're both at our peak, we need another core piece. And that makes it really, really, really tough to make a deal with you, because if you're right about Bender, that just widens the gap, whereas staying put can get us closer in terms of young talent.

If the draft went according to the odds (it never does), my guess is we take Bender and you guys take Dunn. It's possible Dunn goes 4, in which case, my guess is you guys take Sabonis. I know that's pretty high based on where he's projected, but unless you're willing to take a 2 guard, imo, he's BPA. And he very well could end up better than Bender. It really is anyone's guess.

So - you got a proposal? Nothing I view as feasible looks good for us, while nothing I view as good for us looks feasible. We don't need more assets, we need core (star) players. If anything, we're interested in moving up, not down.

[Grits n Gravy]

Hi guys

T'Wolves fan coming in peace. Have a few questions for you.

1. Myself and quite a few Wolves fans are extremely high on Bender and view him as the perfect compliment and final piece of our future starting line up. Assuming the lottery positions stay where they are, what(if anything) would you expect from us to move down 2 places from #3 to #5? Are you firmly against this?

2. How high are you guys on Bogdan Bogdanovic? What(if anything) would you expect or want from the Wolves in exchange for him?

Cheers

I'm not at all certain of Bender's status, or his willingness to come over from Europe next season. BUT, i do know one thing. The suns have no PF on the roster next year as of right now. So, if a.) Bender is the player he's made out to be...b.) the suns are high on him....c.) he wants to play in the nba next season or the year after........then the wolves should look elsewhere.

Also, just as a quick glance at the wolves roster, they dont have a whole lot in trade-able pieces. Its either players they are extremely high on, or a poo-poo platter. Outside of Towns/Lavine/Rubio/Wiggins, there is Shabazz/Dieng.....everything else is, well, easily replaceable.

Dieng is nice for sure....but he's worth more than two draft slots. And making a complicated trade, negates its purpose because the suns have Len/Chandler.

So, when it comes down to it, i suppose there is ONLY one simple trade between the two IF the suns think the guy they want is available at #5

Suns trade:
#3/#28
Wolves trade:
Shabazz/#5

Anything outside of that is more complicated than anyone here should even discuss as possible.

And as far as Bogdan...IMO he's off limits. The risk vs. reward is too much to include him as a throw-in in any potential trade with anybody. The way i see it....IF he's a sticking point when it comes to any trade, nobody will be willing to give up the same value as they see in him potentially returning.

Thanks for the response - I actually just mentioned on our board that I would be willing to include Bazz to move up and I would reluctantly pull the trigger on the trade you mentioned as I do love Shabazz. I agree we are tough trade partners and going forward it looks like we have some exciting match up's in our future. I do think it's unlikely that a trade could work between the two of us so I shall be putting all faith in the lottery that we move up for the first time in franchise history.

[asudevil]

That is exactly what I am talking about asudevil. And Garnett actually agreed to a three year extension with the Celtics at the time of the trade. So the Celtics were trading for five years of Garnett. And what did the Timberwolves get in return? A bunch of mediocre young players and protected picks. This is Kevin Garnett we are talking about. Still in his prime too.

So before you guys think certain players are off the table and/or require these mega packages to trade for, do not forget what history shows happening. Vince Carter got traded to the Nets in 2004 for very little. I remember so many news outlets reporting they could not believe that the Raptors let him go for such a weak package.

Sometimes teams just go in a different direction. Like I said earlier, the Suns traded Marbury for pretty much a bunch of expiring contracts and two picks they did not even keep. Marbury was an all star in his prime and the Suns dumped him because they wanted the cap space instead. You never know what a team is going to do. Maybe the Rockets want to move on from James Harden. Maybe the Pacers do not play well in the playoffs and George asks off the team. Maybe John Wall asks to be dealt. Who knows. The point is that anything can happen and teams that own a top 3 pick have the type of asset that other teams truly want.

The way i see it, there have a handful of teams that to be honest need to go into complete rebuild/retool mode in their present situation. Could the FA period change that? Of Course. But as its stands right now, i could name quite a few.

Kings
Rockets
Wizards
Nuggets
Bulls
Pelicans
Knicks
POTENTIALLY Thunder
POTENTIALLY Cavs

And with those teams, there are a few direct trade partners, and a few trades that could be made where we are a third wheel used to make a HUGE trade work. And i dont think in any scenario we should be looking to GUT our team for one player or one prospect.

[Grits n Gravy]

Hi guys

T'Wolves fan coming in peace. Have a few questions for you.

1. Myself and quite a few Wolves fans are extremely high on Bender and view him as the perfect compliment and final piece of our future starting line up. Assuming the lottery positions stay where they are, what(if anything) would you expect from us to move down 2 places from #3 to #5? Are you firmly against this?

2. How high are you guys on Bogdan Bogdanovic? What(if anything) would you expect or want from the Wolves in exchange for him?

Cheers

This presents a conundrum. If your scouts like Bender, odds are good that ours do too. In which case there wouldn't be much you could give. Our biggest hole is the 4 spot. If we move down to 5, the best players on the board are all 2's. After Bender, it's Chriss, Ellenson, Rabb, Davis and Sabonis in some order - most or all of whom should be available at 7, 8, 9... even down to 13, where we have another pick. So it's tough to envision us as trade partners.

Shabazz is not enough to get us to move. That leaves LaVine, Rubio, KAT, Dieng and Wiggins as the valuable players in whom we might be interested. KAT is the most valuable player in the league, so no deal could even theoretically be struck there. No way you guys give up Wiggins or LaVine without our giving up Booker - a non-starter for both sides. Rubio might get the talks going, as lots of us would love to see a pass-first point guard here, but I just can't imagine us swapping picks and point guards. That leaves Dieng. Is Dieng enough for us to move back? I think it's as simple as - if you're willing to move him, we're probably not willing to take him.

Because of where #5 puts us, we'd probably be inclined to move back even further. But any team who has assets enough to make it enticing for us to move back should theoretically prefer the #3 to #5. This is all to say, we make tough trade partners. So, do you have something in mind?

We're all excited to see Bogdan, but we have no idea what he could be. He's already 24, so he's probably not far from the player he will be in his prime. Unlikely that he's an NBA starter, imo. My guess is he could be had - but again, what makes sense between us?

Truth is, we're probably your biggest rivals going forward. We both have talented young cores. Imo, I'd put Booker and Warren against Wiggins and LaVine and call it pretty even. We've got a few more assets to play with (Bled, Knight, Chandler, Heat picks, 3 picks in this upcoming draft, Bogdan, Archie) than you (Rubio, Dieng, Muhammad, Payne, Bjelica, 1 pick in this upcoming draft and -1 pick in the future). The big difference, obviously, is KAT vs. Len. No competition there. If we want to beat you when we're both at our peak, we need another core piece. And that makes it really, really, really tough to make a deal with you, because if you're right about Bender, that just widens the gap, whereas staying put can get us closer in terms of young talent.

If the draft went according to the odds (it never does), my guess is we take Bender and you guys take Dunn. It's possible Dunn goes 4, in which case, my guess is you guys take Sabonis. I know that's pretty high based on where he's projected, but unless you're willing to take a 2 guard, imo, he's BPA. And he very well could end up better than Bender. It really is anyone's guess.

So - you got a proposal? Nothing I view as feasible looks good for us, while nothing I view as good for us looks feasible. We don't need more assets, we need core (star) players. If anything, we're interested in moving up, not down.

Thanks for the response mate - Yeah certainly we are a tough pairing to make a trade work and it seems highly unlikely that anything could be worked out between the two teams. I think Bender fits you guys very well and you will surely be one of our biggest obstacles and rivals for years to come with the young talent and assests you have.

The only thing that made sense to me was Shabazz and #5 for #3 and #28 but again that probably doesn't make sense on your end as you have TJ Warren who is a similar player in a similar mold. We have Tyus Jones who has finally gotten some run in the second half of the season after Andre Miller was bought out and he has progressively looked better and better but probably doesn't interest you enough to move out of your spot or deal Bogdanovic. I really don't have a good idea what our draft will look like as we have a new guy at the GM helm on a short term deal trying to secure the long term job after Flip's passing. I think we'll probably end up with either Dunn, Hield or Murray. I really like your team and am very curious to see what we both look like at the start of next year.

[MathiasPW]

but nothing suggests that he is having a historic rookie campaign by any stretch.

You are hugely misinformed. Bookers campaign, at his age, scoring wise, puts him in company of LeBron, Kobe and other very very few.

[saintEscaton]

but nothing suggests that he is having a historic rookie campaign by any stretch.

You are hugely misinformed. Bookers campaign, at his age, scoring wise, puts him in company of LeBron, Kobe and other very very few.

So what? if you read my entire post I already pointed that out. I am talking about APBR metrics not just putting up 6 30+ games as a teen. Booker has been steadily decline across all departments with increased usage which is of course to be expected when you are baptized by fire shouldering a heavier load

[bwgood77]

Idk what some of you guys are talking about when it comes to what it takes to get a superstar. Look at trades throughout history and name me one trade where it took multiple top first round picks AND multiple young players with lots of potential to get it done. It does not happen.

Like the Carmelo Anthony trade. The Knicks traded a bunch of random young players (nowhere near the talent Booker has shown in his first year), 2 second round picks, and one first round pick. Out of everything the Knicks traded for Carmelo, nothing even compares to a top three pick which is hopefully what the Suns will have. And oh yeah, the Knicks also got Billups and other players in the deal as well. And I do not put George on the level of 2011 Carmelo. Yet some of you guys are saying it would take every asset the Suns have including Booker. Where are you getting this?

What do you guys think Paul George or Jimmy Butler are? Michael Jordan? What did it take from the Suns to get Charles Barkley. Jeff Hornacek and two throw-ins. Not even a draft pick. And Barkley was a far better player than anybody available in the league today. Remember when the Suns traded Marbury in his prime for virtually nothing but cap space? See what I am trying to say. Maybe some of you guys do not realize how valuable assets like top draft picks are in this league.

No, you are failing to fully comprehend people's posts that stars under long term contracts don't get traded in such deals. The Knicks were actually stupid to give up that much for Melo, because he made it clear he was leaving Denver and would have went to NY anyway in FA. Brush up on your history. Like I said, it would take a lot to pry a guy under contract for more than a year and a half left. Melo made NY make a panic trade, and made it clear he wanted max money so they traded for him so he could GET that full max contract and not the lesser contract you sign with another team that doesn't have your bird rights.

I understand what you are saying....but there have been a few BIG name guys who have been traded with 2 or more years remaining on their contract. And the value those teams got back for them was paltry compared to the crazy that has been thrown around.

KG 2 years remaining - Al Jefferson/2x PROTECTED FIRSTS
Shaq 2 years remaining - Odom/Butler/LATE FIRST
Gasol 4 years remaining - Kwame/2 LATE FIRSTS
Deron 2 years remaining - Favors/Harris/2 Firsts (arguably a horrid trade for the nets)
Ray Allen - 2 years remaining - #5 pick

I'm willing to admit that in these cases they players more or less wanted out of their situation. And i honestly cant think of a trade off the top of my head where a top 20 players was traded from a GOOD situation just because. Stars are traded when teams are trending DOWN DOWN, players who are not happy, or teams that just cant pick themselves up from the bottom of the barrel.

So at this point in time guys like Paul George are going to be off the table. It just doesnt make sense for the Pacers to trade him. Same with Anthony Davis.....sure the team has sucked, but everyone is injured.

BUT there are plenty of situations where a star player is likely to be traded this offseason IMO.

Harden
Cousins
Love
Melo
Wall
Butler
Lopez
Gallinari

Those kinds of guys could be had.....and it wont take 4 Firsts/2 youngsters to get them.

OK, to your first point, Deron Williams was at trade deadline, so less than a year and a half, and that is a pretty damn good package they got when they knew he was leaving and they might lose him for nothing. KG was traded for a haul...one of those first rounders was a VERY high pick that could have been used to take Steph Curry but instead was used to take Jonny Flynn, there were 5 players, and Al Jefferson was a far better prospect at the time than anyone not named Booker (and, arguably at the time, thought of as highly). The other players included some decent names too, BUT, EVEN WITH THOSE POINTS, HE AGREED TO BE TRADED THEIR WITH HESITATION BECAUSE HE WOULD BE JOINING PIERCE AND ALLEN.

I'm not sure if you know much about the Shaq situation, but Kobe was basically saying he was going to leave in free agency so they had to choose between the two, so that was a forced situation, and Odom and Butler were darn good players anyway, better than anyone we could throw into a trade.

So that leaves Ray Allen, which is a good example. They did get Delonte West and Wally Sczerbiak, who had been an all star. But he had also been in the league for over 10 years, so he only had a few years left....Boston was accumulating older guys at the tail end of their primes...or maybe on the downward trend.

The big lopsided one that seemed head scratching at the time, but that was because most didn't know how great a prospect Marc Gasol was (probably a higher rated prospect than Booker), but even then, Memphis said [quote“This deal provides us with a significant amount of assets – two first round picks, the draft rights to Pau’s brother Marc, who has emerged into the top big man in Spain, a talented young point guard in Crittenton and a sizeable amount of salary cap room over the next few years.”][/quote]

And with that cap space and Marc, they turned into a perennial playoff team quickly with a quick rebuild..one bad year, then 500, then western conf semis and conf finals two years later.

While it appeared to be a bad trade at the time to many, it was a great trade due to scouting and getting Marc Gasol, who turned out to be a better player than his brother.

Now, out of the list of players you think might be on the table. I don't know how you come up with Wall. I seriously doubt Harden would be traded, and they'd still want Booker and it would have to be a top two pick. As good as Pau Gasol was, he wasn't a top 10 player (and just last year Harden was considered top 3 or top 5). Melo would never agree to come here and it would be a terrible idea to trade for him anyway.

That leaves Cousins, Love, Butler, Lopez and Gallinari.

I think it will take a haul to get Cousins, and Sacramento has made it pretty clear that they will get rid of coaches to keep him. They are not getting rid of Karl and Cousins this summer and won't trade Cousins until that 2 year left mark, if they do.

Butler, 4+ years left. The ONLY way he gets traded is if they decide him and Hoiberg can't coexist and don't want to fire Hoiberg when they still owe him $20 million. But I don't think they are there yet, or even that they would. EVEN if they want to rebuild HE is the perfect guy to rebuild around. The guys they trade for lesser pieces, but younger ones, are Gasol, Noah, etc, and go with Butler, McDermott, Portis to start with...not a bad start....you don't decide to rebuild and trade a guy in his 5th year in the league that you've developed into an all star. Their fans would revolt to trade him. That would be like us trading Booker the first year into his second contract because we wanted to rebuild.

Denver has said they want to build around Gallinari, but I wouldn't want to give up a top 3 pick for him anyway.

I think Love MIGHT be traded, so I think he is the best hope, but they will want good players, and won't care about picks, because they have a limited window to win it all with LeBron, so IF they trade him, it will be for some really good players. I think McD will look into it here, and they could use guys like Chandler and Tucker, but it would probably have to be a three way, where are top 4 or 5 pick went elsewhere and they got another good player or two from that team.

I think Lopez could be on the table, but I wouldn't trade a top 5 pick for him...I suppose we could try and trade Knight and Len for him, but even though I'm not the biggest Knight fan, Brook Lopez doesn't make sense with our timelinen and gets us nowhere.

So those are my thoughts on your list. I've said before I think he will go for Love, but not sure we have enough assets that the Cavs would want on our own to get him. Gallinari would be a nice get, so if it's worth trading our top 5 pick for him, maybe that is a possibility because a Hield or Murray trade for him could make sense to some because Gallinari fills a gap. Denver has said they want to build around him though.

Also, letsgosuns keeps saying "will trade our pick for a SUPERSTAR" I don't really consider Lopez, Gallinari or even Butler a superstar. Not sure I'd consider the first two a star. Butler is a star, but it would still take (if we didn't trade Booker, which is probably the only way we'd have a chance), three of the following: Our pick, the Washington pick, Len, and Warren. Our pick, the Washington pick and Len makes the most sense if they were rebuilding...they could replace Butler with Murray/Hield or take Dunn, and then add another piece, probably pg or sg at 12 or 13, and Len would replace Noah/Gasol somewhat and they would be younger across the board.

[jcsunsfan]

That is exactly what I am talking about asudevil. And Garnett actually agreed to a three year extension with the Celtics at the time of the trade. So the Celtics were trading for five years of Garnett. And what did the Timberwolves get in return? A bunch of mediocre young players and protected picks. This is Kevin Garnett we are talking about. Still in his prime too.

So before you guys think certain players are off the table and/or require these mega packages to trade for, do not forget what history shows happening. Vince Carter got traded to the Nets in 2004 for very little. I remember so many news outlets reporting they could not believe that the Raptors let him go for such a weak package.

Sometimes teams just go in a different direction. Like I said earlier, the Suns traded Marbury for pretty much a bunch of expiring contracts and two picks they did not even keep. Marbury was an all star in his prime and the Suns dumped him because they wanted the cap space instead. You never know what a team is going to do. Maybe the Rockets want to move on from James Harden. Maybe the Pacers do not play well in the playoffs and George asks off the team. Maybe John Wall asks to be dealt. Who knows. The point is that anything can happen and teams that own a top 3 pick have the type of asset that other teams truly want.

The way i see it, there have a handful of teams that to be honest need to go into complete rebuild/retool mode in their present situation. Could the FA period change that? Of Course. But as its stands right now, i could name quite a few.

Kings
Rockets
Wizards
Nuggets
Bulls
Pelicans
Knicks
POTENTIALLY Thunder
POTENTIALLY Cavs

And with those teams, there are a few direct trade partners, and a few trades that could be made where we are a third wheel used to make a HUGE trade work. And i dont think in any scenario we should be looking to GUT our team for one player or one prospect.

The Thunder if Durant leaves. Westbrook cannot carry that team. As long as the Cavs have LeBron, they cannot rebuild. They sacrificed everything for him.