Pre Draft Discussion

[Flying Colors]

Grayson Allen crazy workout

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Grayson Allen’s face prosthetics look terrible

[Saberestar]

The eye test on Doncic is so much better than the one on Ayton.

I 100% disagree!!!!!!

I am at my cousins graduation and not only was he a D1 basketball player who played against Ayton .... he has also worked out for GS, SAC, ATL, BKL during pre draft workouts (I obv won’t say his name but he’s a west coast Player) ......

I say who would you take at #1 !???.....
Ayton 100%

He said that Although the Spanish league is good, it’s not like it used to be !!! And his old teammate plays with Luka at real (or used to) and that as an 18 year old he’s got some extremely bad habits (poor diet, partying, kind of an **** at times) ...... says that the NCAA tournament is the same intensity as a regular season game in Spain ..... at #1 you don’t take risks .....

Not to be disrespectful.... but take it for what it’s worth! My cousin knows more **** than most people watching film tape.

I am not saying you are wrong but, it is one of those "he said, she said" stories

Who do we trust more? Your cousin or Igor Kokoskov? Or even teammate and a friend of Luka who plays with him on national team. He said that he took the offer from Real Madrid to replace Luka while turning down better offers. Because he wants to play in a strong league, on one of the best clubs in the world.

Euro clubs are getting better each year in all competitions. More and more talent is pouring in into europe even from the US, a lot of them don't make it but still... So this notion that any competition is not as strong as it was, is simply not true. You can also check how many NBA clubs lose to european clubs aswell. And if you argue that NBA clubs don't play at full speed, well checking box score can show you that neither do european clubs in those friendly matches.

But again i am not arguing against your cousin, all i am saying is that there are also other people who say the opposite of what your cousin said including your own Suns coach. All in all we know Luka has good 2-3 years of learning and hard gym traning to do. I said he will struggle in his rookie year while Ayton may not. Just because he is physically more ready. Will be interesting to see what they both can do when they reach their peak.

Kokoskov said in a interview on arizonasports that Euroleague is not as strong competition as it was in the past and I agree with him.

If you are good for real you are in the NBA...period.

The NBA "steals" all the talent. 17 players per team and the G-League growing.

A couple of exceptions here or there, but that is the rule nowadays.

[AtheJ415]

The NBADraftGod twitter is saying Kemba is going to be shopped for an extra pick. I can't imagine Orlando giving up #6 so this might be us bidding against their remaining picks or future picks. I wonder if he can be made for primarily 16 and maybe 31 instead of having to include Warren. If they wanted to do it on draft night as this suggests, Warren is tough to include anyways because I believe his extension won't have kicked in.

If that is the case, Sauce can be used as an expiring to give them salary relief. Throw in Dudley, who while not a good contract, the return is the 2 picks and 2 million in cap savings. Or if they wanted Knight we could just do Knight and 16 for Kemba or something like that.

I have a feeling we will end up with Goran or Kemba and will not have to include Warren, Chriss, or Bender like many assume. I think it would be for 2 picks max.

[Frank Lee]

I think Ayton slips in some drafts because of his poor showing/disappearing act in the tournament... that and his apparent lack of dominance throughout the year. According to sidekick yayhoo wildcat nut on 620, who watched every game, Ayton only truly exercised his will in 4-5 games. If he/Az would have gone deep in March, I think many would view him differently. To be neutralized like he was by Buffalo is the last impression of many.

People look at him and see great physical traits and likely expect more.

I’m still in the can’t lose boat
Ayton or Doncic is a win win

The real difficulty is in the other additions and with my skeptic view of McDesparate, I am half way hoping we just draft accordingly and lay low in free agency... however we will have two separate domino scenarios as Ayton will require different additions than Doncic. We can’t really lose in the draft... but there is FO pooch screwing potential down the road

[JMac1]

The NBADraftGod twitter is saying Kemba is going to be shopped for an extra pick. I can't imagine Orlando giving up #6 so this might be us bidding against their remaining picks or future picks. I wonder if he can be made for primarily 16 and maybe 31 instead of having to include Warren. If they wanted to do it on draft night as this suggests, Warren is tough to include anyways because I believe his extension won't have kicked in.

If that is the case, Sauce can be used as an expiring to give them salary relief. Throw in Dudley, who while not a good contract, the return is the 2 picks and 2 million in cap savings. Or if they wanted Knight we could just do Knight and 16 for Kemba or something like that.

I have a feeling we will end up with Goran or Kemba and will not have to include Warren, Chriss, or Bender like many assume. I think it would be for 2 picks max.

Kemba sighting?

[JMac1]

Four more days until team Ayton. So very happy!

[AtheJ415]

The NBADraftGod twitter is saying Kemba is going to be shopped for an extra pick. I can't imagine Orlando giving up #6 so this might be us bidding against their remaining picks or future picks. I wonder if he can be made for primarily 16 and maybe 31 instead of having to include Warren. If they wanted to do it on draft night as this suggests, Warren is tough to include anyways because I believe his extension won't have kicked in.

If that is the case, Sauce can be used as an expiring to give them salary relief. Throw in Dudley, who while not a good contract, the return is the 2 picks and 2 million in cap savings. Or if they wanted Knight we could just do Knight and 16 for Kemba or something like that.

I have a feeling we will end up with Goran or Kemba and will not have to include Warren, Chriss, or Bender like many assume. I think it would be for 2 picks max.

Kemba sighting?

Well truthfully nobody knows who runs this NBADraftGod account. It could be just a troll, but some draft insiders do follow it so who knows. I would be pretty torn on trading 16 for Kemba. It depends entirely on who is there. I think SGA or Smith would be guys I would prefer to Kemba. SGA is a bit better fit for what we probably need from a PG in that he has size, is a heady passer with potentially plus vision, defensive upside, and thus could play alongside Booker really well. Smith isn't a PG but he has so much upside and at worst will be an elite defender and that makes me prefer him to Kemba who will be an FA in a year.

Also when I look at Kemba's numbers I see a below average defender who is a moderate passer. His shooting is solid but the percentages are far from elite though he does take a ton of difficult shots off the dribble in Charlotte which deflates those numbers. He can create offense no doubt, but he doesn't really do much else and his size limits his effectiveness off the ball even though his shooting requires he not be left open.

The thing is SGA has not worked out for ANYBODY. Not a team. It seems like he has a promise and it might be from Charlotte, but if that is the case we may not have the luxury of seeing who falls to 16 because Charlotte will have to make their pick at 12.

Either way though I don't think it makes sense to trade Warren in either scenario given his extension won't kick in at the draft so it isn't a clean match, and because I think 16 in this draft is really valuable on its own and that Warren is a pretty damn good player in his own right, though maybe slightly overpaid if he doesn't improve his defense or 3 point shooting, but I think he will improve with a better coach on defense and 3 point shooting is up to him. I'd give him 1 more year to try to show signs with his 3 pointer.

[BobbieL]

The NBADraftGod twitter is saying Kemba is going to be shopped for an extra pick. I can't imagine Orlando giving up #6 so this might be us bidding against their remaining picks or future picks. I wonder if he can be made for primarily 16 and maybe 31 instead of having to include Warren. If they wanted to do it on draft night as this suggests, Warren is tough to include anyways because I believe his extension won't have kicked in.

If that is the case, Sauce can be used as an expiring to give them salary relief. Throw in Dudley, who while not a good contract, the return is the 2 picks and 2 million in cap savings. Or if they wanted Knight we could just do Knight and 16 for Kemba or something like that.

I have a feeling we will end up with Goran or Kemba and will not have to include Warren, Chriss, or Bender like many assume. I think it would be for 2 picks max.

I thought the same thing about Warrens contract but Kerrsed said the league knows since its a BYC/Poison Pill type contract - Warren would count as 11.5m of cap space.

But your trade - which I have mentioned in other threads - is something that does bring value to the Hornets if you say include Dudley and Daniels - that's a straight salary swap. Or Daniels, Williams and Ulis - which would be about 2m in savings - but if Charlotte waived Williams and Ulis, really would be close to 10m in cash savings.

The big concern as others have pointed out to me is that you are giving up the 16 for one year of Walker - that is risky. But I think worth the risk

[Sunsdeuce]

So many ways to twist Analytics to support any argument you want to make. That’s what I see with Doncic lovers, they twist and turn every number to make Doncic some type of superstar. But Ayton “isn’t a winner” is one of their arguments.

In four years at Wake Forest, Tim Duncan went no higher than the elite eight and only made it that far once. But in the NBA he only carried the Spurs to 5 championships.

If you look at Aytons year at UofA and Duncan’s final year in College, their stats are almost identical.

I’m not saying they are anything alike, I’m saying people need to stop with the “Ayton didn’t accomplish anything in college” argument.

He actually did.

If you want to make that argument then I’ll argue Doncic played great in a joke of a league. Mike James puts up almost the same numbers as Doncic but can’t make it in the NBA. Sorry if I’m skeptical of Doncic in a big way. The euro league is overrated and hasn’t produced a whole lot of talent to be honest.

Name 5 superstars that came from the euro league from the last 5-10...shoot go back 20 years, I sure can’t. I can easily name 5 from the last 5-10 years college.

Doncic is setting up to be one of ur biggest busts in recent memory and a large part is too many people are crowning him the goat before he steps onto the real floor.


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[King4Day]

Interesting that most non Suns fans who participated in a poll of "Who would you take #1 overall in the draft" actually would take Doncic (55%) over Ayton (22%).

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1714357

Prior to the lottery, I had browsed few of top lotto teams' forums like Grizz/Kings/Mavs etc and it certainly felt like most of their fans actually wanted Doncic if their teams had won the lottery as well.

It worked out extremely well for Ayton that his hometown team got the #1 overall pick with him having huge local fan support in Phoenix. Just a guess but I think there's strong chance that he loses out on #1 overall money and goes #2 or later had another team won the lottery.

I'm not sure I agree with this. I believe he would be a consensus #1 for more teams than not. He's just too talented and has too much potential. Especially since Doncic appears to be falling so other teams can take big men.
If we had the #2 pick, I would expect us to take Doncic, even if other teams wouldn't. But teams like the Kings, who you hear may take Bagley with their pick, would most def take Ayton.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I wouldn't be shocked if the SGA promise was Orlando at 6. Their GM hammond had a history of loving length when he was with the bucks and its not out of the question that they would rank him as the best pg in the draft.

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[AtheJ415]

The NBADraftGod twitter is saying Kemba is going to be shopped for an extra pick. I can't imagine Orlando giving up #6 so this might be us bidding against their remaining picks or future picks. I wonder if he can be made for primarily 16 and maybe 31 instead of having to include Warren. If they wanted to do it on draft night as this suggests, Warren is tough to include anyways because I believe his extension won't have kicked in.

If that is the case, Sauce can be used as an expiring to give them salary relief. Throw in Dudley, who while not a good contract, the return is the 2 picks and 2 million in cap savings. Or if they wanted Knight we could just do Knight and 16 for Kemba or something like that.

I have a feeling we will end up with Goran or Kemba and will not have to include Warren, Chriss, or Bender like many assume. I think it would be for 2 picks max.

I thought the same thing about Warrens contract but Kerrsed said the league knows since its a BYC/Poison Pill type contract - Warren would count as 11.5m of cap space.

But your trade - which I have mentioned in other threads - is something that does bring value to the Hornets if you say include Dudley and Daniels - that's a straight salary swap. Or Daniels, Williams and Ulis - which would be about 2m in savings - but if Charlotte waived Williams and Ulis, really would be close to 10m in cash savings.

The big concern as others have pointed out to me is that you are giving up the 16 for one year of Walker - that is risky. But I think worth the risk

I don't think we let him walk necessarily, though you never know. All it takes is one bad GM to give him a max or something. But I think the issue is 2fold--first, it obligates us and puts pressure on us to re-sign him because we have given up something valuable for him, and thus may pay more than the market dictates. Second, we could just keep the picks and sign him outright next year if we preserve our cap, which is why I don't think we'd give up much for him. There is a low opportunity cost for us should we decide not to make the trade. Also there are other PG options that may be better that are likely to be available soon (Dragic), and maybe even Lillard by trade deadline this next year. So we could wait for those and if they fail still sign Kemba next offseason.

I think 16 is about right for him, though I would not make that trade if Smith or SGA are there at 16. 16 and 31 might be a slight overpay imo just because of how much I like this draft around that 31 spot, and because he is an FA in a year that we could likely sign. Warren should not be included at all imo unless it is something like Warren and 31 (no 16 pick) for him.

[jcsunsfan]

I wouldn't be shocked if the SGA promise was Orlando at 6. Their GM hammond had a history of loving length when he was with the bucks and its not out of the question that they would rank him as the best pg in the draft.

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Usually, promises are not quite that high above their projected spot. Actually, the promise could be from the Suns.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I wouldn't be shocked if the SGA promise was Orlando at 6. Their GM hammond had a history of loving length when he was with the bucks and its not out of the question that they would rank him as the best pg in the draft.

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Usually, promises are not quite that high above their projected spot. Actually, the promise could be from the Suns.

But it is also true that promises are rarely below where players are projected, and I haven't seen a single mock that had Shai falling to #16.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I wouldn't be shocked if the SGA promise was Orlando at 6. Their GM hammond had a history of loving length when he was with the bucks and its not out of the question that they would rank him as the best pg in the draft.

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Usually, promises are not quite that high above their projected spot. Actually, the promise could be from the Suns.

I doubt its the suns, unless they already have a deal to move up I would assume he would want to go higher than 16 and would have worked out for teams.

Charlotte at 11 does probably make the most sense but I'm just saying its not impossible that Orlando has him atop their board. They might not trust porters medicals and since I think teams are going to have very mixed views on young and sexton he could be the guy they think is best.

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[sunsbum]

I don't see Kemba as good fit at all. I don't really want another Eric Bledsoe on this team. We need a distributor first defense second type of guy.

[JMac1]

Interesting that most non Suns fans who participated in a poll of "Who would you take #1 overall in the draft" actually would take Doncic (55%) over Ayton (22%).

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1714357

Prior to the lottery, I had browsed few of top lotto teams' forums like Grizz/Kings/Mavs etc and it certainly felt like most of their fans actually wanted Doncic if their teams had won the lottery as well.

It worked out extremely well for Ayton that his hometown team got the #1 overall pick with him having huge local fan support in Phoenix. Just a guess but I think there's strong chance that he loses out on #1 overall money and goes #2 or later had another team won the lottery.

I'm not sure I agree with this. I believe he would be a consensus #1 for more teams than not. He's just too talented and has too much potential. Especially since Doncic appears to be falling so other teams can take big men.
If we had the #2 pick, I would expect us to take Doncic, even if other teams wouldn't. But teams like the Kings, who you hear may take Bagley with their pick, would most def take Ayton.

Before the lottery, everyone wanted Ayton. People use one game because they want him to fall. Best talent in the draft. I dare anyone to name someone better as a whole. Skill, check. Size, check. Athleticism, check. Stats, check. Bagley would be next in line.

[SuperSunsFan]

So many ways to twist Analytics to support any argument you want to make. That’s what I see with Doncic lovers, they twist and turn every number to make Doncic some type of superstar. But Ayton “isn’t a winner” is one of their arguments.

In four years at Wake Forest, Tim Duncan went no higher than the elite eight and only made it that far once. But in the NBA he only carried the Spurs to 5 championships.

If you look at Aytons year at UofA and Duncan’s final year in College, their stats are almost identical.

I’m not saying they are anything alike, I’m saying people need to stop with the “Ayton didn’t accomplish anything in college” argument.

He actually did.

If you want to make that argument then I’ll argue Doncic played great in a joke of a league. Mike James puts up almost the same numbers as Doncic but can’t make it in the NBA. Sorry if I’m skeptical of Doncic in a big way. The euro league is overrated and hasn’t produced a whole lot of talent to be honest.

Name 5 superstars that came from the euro league from the last 5-10...shoot go back 20 years, I sure can’t. I can easily name 5 from the last 5-10 years college.

Doncic is setting up to be one of ur biggest busts in recent memory and a large part is too many people are crowning him the goat before he steps onto the real floor.


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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-EuroLeague_Team see how many NBA scrubs were All Euroleagues, Sonny Weem, Terrance Morris, even Trajan Langdon. Not even sure if Euroleague is any better than the D-league.

European leagues have no cap and therefore usually extremely top-heavy, only few teams at most have any realistic chances to win anything in any league. even if the euroleague is like champion league of soccer with winning clubs from different european countries still it is very top heavy unlike American leagues where parity does exist to an extent.

[BobbieL]

The NBADraftGod twitter is saying Kemba is going to be shopped for an extra pick. I can't imagine Orlando giving up #6 so this might be us bidding against their remaining picks or future picks. I wonder if he can be made for primarily 16 and maybe 31 instead of having to include Warren. If they wanted to do it on draft night as this suggests, Warren is tough to include anyways because I believe his extension won't have kicked in.

If that is the case, Sauce can be used as an expiring to give them salary relief. Throw in Dudley, who while not a good contract, the return is the 2 picks and 2 million in cap savings. Or if they wanted Knight we could just do Knight and 16 for Kemba or something like that.

I have a feeling we will end up with Goran or Kemba and will not have to include Warren, Chriss, or Bender like many assume. I think it would be for 2 picks max.

I thought the same thing about Warrens contract but Kerrsed said the league knows since its a BYC/Poison Pill type contract - Warren would count as 11.5m of cap space.

But your trade - which I have mentioned in other threads - is something that does bring value to the Hornets if you say include Dudley and Daniels - that's a straight salary swap. Or Daniels, Williams and Ulis - which would be about 2m in savings - but if Charlotte waived Williams and Ulis, really would be close to 10m in cash savings.

The big concern as others have pointed out to me is that you are giving up the 16 for one year of Walker - that is risky. But I think worth the risk

I don't think we let him walk necessarily, though you never know. All it takes is one bad GM to give him a max or something. But I think the issue is 2fold--first, it obligates us and puts pressure on us to re-sign him because we have given up something valuable for him, and thus may pay more than the market dictates. Second, we could just keep the picks and sign him outright next year if we preserve our cap, which is why I don't think we'd give up much for him. There is a low opportunity cost for us should we decide not to make the trade. Also there are other PG options that may be better that are likely to be available soon (Dragic), and maybe even Lillard by trade deadline this next year. So we could wait for those and if they fail still sign Kemba next offseason.

I think 16 is about right for him, though I would not make that trade if Smith or SGA are there at 16. 16 and 31 might be a slight overpay imo just because of how much I like this draft around that 31 spot, and because he is an FA in a year that we could likely sign. Warren should not be included at all imo unless it is something like Warren and 31 (no 16 pick) for him.

I realize I can be all over the map with trade ideas - but Dragic possibly out there is more intriguing to me than Kemba. I think Dragic would be cheaper to get. We know the contract. Has a relationship with Igor. Goran did say he just built his dream home and wants to stay in Miami but life in the NBA.

I just wonder the cost. In the other thread people are discussing Deng/Ball - well that would eat all the Suns cap space. I think if the Suns could swing Goran - and take all his contract. Suns wouldn't have any more cap space but the value going to the Heat would be like the 31 or something like that. Daniels maybe

[bwgood77]

The NBADraftGod twitter is saying Kemba is going to be shopped for an extra pick. I can't imagine Orlando giving up #6 so this might be us bidding against their remaining picks or future picks. I wonder if he can be made for primarily 16 and maybe 31 instead of having to include Warren. If they wanted to do it on draft night as this suggests, Warren is tough to include anyways because I believe his extension won't have kicked in.

If that is the case, Sauce can be used as an expiring to give them salary relief. Throw in Dudley, who while not a good contract, the return is the 2 picks and 2 million in cap savings. Or if they wanted Knight we could just do Knight and 16 for Kemba or something like that.

I have a feeling we will end up with Goran or Kemba and will not have to include Warren, Chriss, or Bender like many assume. I think it would be for 2 picks max.

The NBA Draft God twitter? That's a joke account. The names of the two guys behind it our Bill Simmons' dogs and a character from the Saw franchise.