SoTD: Bargnani's defensive breakdown (updated)

[Harry Palmer]

The thing is, supe, this won't register. Nor will the fact that the Grizz gave up fewer pts with Gay playing than sitting (as opposed to 8.5 (!!) pts/more)

right
http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers. ... C&team=MEM
No one on that team plays any resemblance of defence except for Marc Gasol(by far and away their best player) and Hasheem Thabeet.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09MEM11.HTM

-0.2.

Better.

But, as mentioned, this is stra(w)ying down the wrong path. Which, I suppose, is the point.

[isyed]

this is going to be an amazing thread. I predict atleast 50 pages and historic comments. I wanna be part of this...

[Avenger]

The thing is, supe, this won't register. Nor will the fact that the Grizz gave up fewer pts with Gay playing than sitting (as opposed to 8.5 (!!) pts/more)

right
http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers. ... C&team=MEM
No one on that team plays any resemblance of defence except for Marc Gasol(by far and away their best player) and Hasheem Thabeet.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09MEM11.HTM

-0.2.

Better.

But, as mentioned, this is stra(w)ying down the wrong path. Which, I suppose, is the point.

So you're admitting to making up the 8.5 points better on defence part?

[Kevin Willis]

Stupid question but who is top 5.

[Harry Palmer]

The thing is, supe, this won't register. Nor will the fact that the Grizz gave up fewer pts with Gay playing than sitting (as opposed to 8.5 (!!) pts/more) Or rebounded better on defense (as opposed to worse) or forced more turnovers while fouling less (as opposed to not) etc. etc. It's a strawman, easily replaced by another. The essential point about strawmen isn't what they reveal, it's what they seek to avoid being revealed.

No quibble with the overall argument (Gay's defense was considerably better this year than last, and it showed in their overall results...

Mentioned the 8games source...minor differences...but re: Gay's improved D, ironically Grizzlies folk attribute it to Z-Bo's offense allowing Gay breathers from trying to carry the O/be the clear out option when play break down.

Which may or may not say something about where we should anticipate Bargs' D going next season...

[Fairview4Life]

So you're admitting to making up the 8.5 points better on defence part?

That was in reference to Bargs' #'s. Secondly, please stop quoting him or referring to him in anyway. Let him go peddle his crazy somewhere else.

[Harry Palmer]

So you're admitting to making up the 8.5 points better on defence part?

Try re-reading. Or understanding the concept of contrast.

Then apologize.

[hkr]

...
But it also has to be mentioned that most numbers indicate Gay is, at best, an average player.

Depends on your view of both aspect (him and average). Unlike having 20 ppg potential, he already has a 20 ppg resume under his belt, often in the face of much stiffer defensive attention than Bargs sees unless Bosh is hurt.

But by virtually any rubric, he's better, younger, and a better fit for us than Bargs.

I just don't think PPG stands as a barometer of excellence when your career shooting efficiency is 53%, a lower number than Hedo's mark last season. I think there's some value to volume scoring, but it's really vastly overrated and it's probably better for a team to give less shots to a guy with a career TS% of 53%.

Gay to me is a big disappointment too (although not as much as Bargnani) since he has become a complete opposite player from what I envisioned, an OK scoring oriented player instead of a do-it-all type of efficient glue guy.

[isyed]

So you're admitting to making up the 8.5 points better on defence part?

That was in reference to Bargs' #'s. Secondly, please stop quoting him or referring to him in anyway. Let him go peddle his crazy somewhere else.

Wait F4L you too? I thought you were more rational then most here. Why the hate for Harry whose theories are being proven right in this thread?

[Alfred]

Okay, we're not talking about Rudy Gay anymore.

[Avenger]

So you're admitting to making up the 8.5 points better on defence part?

Try re-reading. Or understanding the concept of contrast.

Then apologize.

Oh, thought you were confusing his overall +/-(which was also 8.5) with his defensive +/-, so yes, my apologies

[Harry Palmer]

So you're admitting to making up the 8.5 points better on defence part?

That was in reference to Bargs' #'s. Secondly, please stop quoting him or referring to him in anyway. Let him go peddle his crazy somewhere else.

1) My point made, accurately.
2) Misconstrued and used to attack objectivity.
3) Clarified as again being accurate.
4) Above dismissed with personal attack not relating to argument at hand.

Absolutely perfect synopsis of events. Thanks.

[Harry Palmer]

So you're admitting to making up the 8.5 points better on defence part?

Try re-reading. Or understanding the concept of contrast.

Then apologize.

Oh, thought you were confusing his overall +/-(which was also 8.5) with his defensive +/-, so yes, my apologies

Cheers.

[Fairview4Life]

So you're admitting to making up the 8.5 points better on defence part?

That was in reference to Bargs' #'s. Secondly, please stop quoting him or referring to him in anyway. Let him go peddle his crazy somewhere else.

Wait F4L you too? I thought you were more rational then most here. Why the hate for Harry whose theories are being proven right in this thread?

He is crazy. Go read that MacBeth nonsense from Clutch City.

[Avenger]

nvm

[lobosloboslobos]

Actually, on pure post-ups, he's pretty good. His PPP is only 0.80, which ranks him 85th among all NBA players.

Actually, my friend has synergy sports too, and Bargnani's PPP is 1, which ranks him 81st in the league.

His Post-up PPP is .92, which is 51st in the league.

This is an important post that has not been addressed. Are you being serious Alfred?

If so, Supersub can you please address this post?

Thanks guys

[supersub15]

Actually, on pure post-ups, he's pretty good. His PPP is only 0.80, which ranks him 85th among all NBA players.

Actually, my friend has synergy sports too, and Bargnani's PPP is 1, which ranks him 81st in the league.

His Post-up PPP is .92, which is 51st in the league.

This is an important post that has not been addressed. Are you being serious Alfred?

If so, Supersub can you please address this post?

Thanks guys

Continue reading. Alfred corrected his post later in the thread.

[isyed]

Actually, on pure post-ups, he's pretty good. His PPP is only 0.80, which ranks him 85th among all NBA players.

Actually, my friend has synergy sports too, and Bargnani's PPP is 1, which ranks him 81st in the league.

His Post-up PPP is .92, which is 51st in the league.

This is an important post that has not been addressed. Are you being serious Alfred?

If so, Supersub can you please address this post?

Thanks guys

Alfred corrected himself already!!

[isyed]

That was in reference to Bargs' #'s. Secondly, please stop quoting him or referring to him in anyway. Let him go peddle his crazy somewhere else.

Wait F4L you too? I thought you were more rational then most here. Why the hate for Harry whose theories are being proven right in this thread?

He is crazy. Go read that MacBeth nonsense from Clutch City.

Regardless...if he is making a correct point why attack him or his craziness..lets work with the data on hand and the subject on hand....

SS- Can we get more gems...i am really interested in Bosh and Amir...thanks

[Schad]

Okay, we're not talking about Rudy Gay anymore.

Or Harry.