Where does Kobe rank All-Time with another Repeat?

[kasino]

another ring?
5× NBA Champion (2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2009, 2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)
12× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2010)
2× NBA scoring champion (2006–2007)
8× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2010)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2000–2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
8× All-Defensive First Team (2000, 2003–2004, 2006–2010)
2× All-Defensive Second Team (2001–2002)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1997)
3× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009)

Equal to Bird/Magic I think it clearly seperates him from Duncan/Shaq.

[hasslinghoff]

hypothetical question: what if kobe wins this year, but gasol gets finals mvp?

[kasino]

he doesn't move up.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

hypothetical question: what if kobe wins this year, but gasol gets finals mvp?

In 5 years, we will talk about how Kobe was actually jobbed and deserved that Finals MVP, and he created every point and rebound for Gasol.

[tsherkin]

When teams figured out to stop Bryant instead of O'Neal, the Lakers went nowhere.

This is definitely untrue. The Lakers went downhill when their depth vanished because of the contracts that Shaq and Kobe both had and because Kobe started to break more and more from the triangle before the 4th quarter because he wanted to be The Man. Also, injuries to Shaq certainly didn't help (some of which were the product of Shaq's work ethic, certainly, some from the foul-him-every-play tactics of the day). It wasn't any one thing, but it certainly had nothing to do with defenses keying on Kobe.

[Minge]

Comment removed.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

When teams figured out to stop Bryant instead of O'Neal, the Lakers went nowhere.

This is definitely untrue.

This is almost like mocking some championship NBA coaches. Gee, we won't gear our defenses toward a guy who has lit us up for 40pts a couple times?

This is directly mocking Shaq. Gee, we won't gear our defense toward a guy who has lit us up for 40 pts many times shooting over 60% in the process?

[AIRTIGHT]

Well he never won anything or contended for anything with out Gasol and Shaq so I'm not sure. Kobe has been extremely lucky through out his NBA career.

So your saying Kobe can't win unless he has talent around him? Mindblowing!

No sir, not just "talent": Kobe needs to play with players more efficacious and more reliable than himself in order to win.

[tsherkin]

This is almost like mocking some championship NBA coaches. Gee, we won't gear our defenses toward a guy who has lit us up for 40pts a couple times?

I'm mocking nothing; I didn't say defenses DIDN'T key on Kobe, I said that defenses deciding to do so did not cause the Lakers to stop winning titles.

[AIRTIGHT]

WIth a ring and finals MVP Kobe moves ahead of Hakeem Duncan and Shaq.

Same group as Bird.

Haha..
I'm curious as to when Kobe was given equal placement with Hakeem Duncan and Shaq in the first place?

[kasino]

WIth a ring and finals MVP Kobe moves ahead of Hakeem Duncan and Shaq.

Same group as Bird.

Haha..
I'm curious as to when Kobe was given equal placement with Hakeem Duncan and Shaq in the first place?

right now leading his team to the Finals 3 years in a row.

[Dez Bryant]

HONESTLY LAKER FANS WHAT DO YOU WANT? FOR EVERYONE TO SAY HES ABOVE MJ? Seems like you guys get butthurt if everyone but YOU think he belongs on that level.

he's the 2nd best shooting guard in NBA history, stop crying.

[Dez Bryant]

Well he never won anything or contended for anything with out Gasol and Shaq so I'm not sure. Kobe has been extremely lucky through out his NBA career.

So your saying Kobe can't win unless he has talent around him? Mindblowing!

He's saying Kobe needs a dominant big, HELLO?

[kasino]

I don't think anyone said he was better than MJ one ring isn't going to jump you from #7 to #1. Its about All-Time rank. I do feel if he gets this ring he seperates from Shaq/Duncan and joins Majic/Bird tier.

[AIRTIGHT]

^ We talking about the same Kobe Bryant with (1) MVP (2) Scoring titles (*4) Championships (*with only 1) Finals MVP in 14 seasons? [where it's difficult to argue that Bryant is not one of if not the most 'lucky' star player in the history of the league to be gifted with the talent he has consistently had around him throughout his entire career to help him accrue the level of success he did.] Don't get me wrong, that's an impressive list of accomplishments; but to say he's now greater than Hakeem and Shaq when it's blatantly obvious that Kobe has never spearheaded a championship effort or even an elite team effort in the fashion that Hakeem and Shaq have is hard to conceive as anythings other than outright 'Homer-ism'/'favoritism'.

Kobe has had his whole career to prove he was up there with Jordan, and 14 years later fans are still left with only what they began: "hope". Kobe Bryant was no way no how as good a player as Shaq- I think even the most ardent fans would have trouble disagreeing with this since we actually saw who was chosen #1 when they were on the same team. Shaq is generally not considered quite as good as Olajuwon- law of comparison would then leave the argument that Olajuwon was better than Kobe too.

[pancakes3]

i feel icky doing it, but i agree with kasino. winning another ring doesn't get him to MJ but it's a step in the right direction.

and @ airtight... shaq would have never won his 3 rings without Kobe. that's a fact as much kobe needing shaq. i don't understand how you can even say "spearheaded a championship" and include shaq. did you see shaq spearhead any sort of run without kobe kicked his PER above 20?

and yes, hakeem had 2 rings, and for that first ring his team was hella bad. that is admirable, but is 1 superman ring, and another won with drexler really better than 5 championship rings? if that's the case would you say the dream outranks magic?

and the pau gasol argument. lordy have mercy. gasol is nice, but he's not a player you can just drop on a team and say "well damn. they're a contender". he's an all-star player and ALL championship teams have an all-star sidekick on it. getting to play with gasol hardly makes someone one of the luckiest players in NBA history.

[kasino]

^ We talking about the same Kobe Bryant with (1) MVP (2) Scoring titles (*4) Championships (*with only 1) Finals MVP in 14 seasons [where it's difficult to argue that Bryant is not one of if not the most 'lucky' star player in the history of the league to be gifted with the talent he has consistently had around him throughout his entire career to help him accrue the level of success he did.] Don't get me wrong, that's an impressive list of accomplishments; but to say he's now greater than Hakeem and Shaq when it's blatantly obvious that Kobe has never spearheaded a championship effort or even an elite team effort in the fashion that Hakeem and Shaq have is hard to conceive as anythings other than outright 'Homer-ism'/'favoritism'.

Kobe has had his whole career to prove he was up there with Jordan, and 14 years later fans are still left with only what they began: "hope". Kobe Bryant was no way no how as good a player as Shaq- I think even the most ardent fans would have trouble disagreeing with this since we actually saw who was chosen #1 when they were on the same team. Shaq is generally not considered quite as good as Olajuwon- law of comparison would then leave the argument that Olajuwon was better than Kobe too.

Well Hakeem and Shaq both have 1 MVP so idk what that is about.

Again not about Mike. Why must everything be about Mike. I didn't say anything implying Kobe was better than Mike. So please don't mention him, it has nothing to do with this and really makes it look as if your going out of your way to bring down Kobe.

What does spearheading a championship mean? Does that mean leading back to back Finals appearances? Or do you mean stats? Last year Kobe posted 30/5/5 for his championship. Its not nothing to gawk over but he was the first since Jerry West to post 32/7 for a Finals seris.

So I don't know what more you want he is consistently great and for most of his career he has been in contention something most all-time greats can't say. You can call it luck if you want but thats how the dice roll. Its not like their was a time he wasn't great.

[ponder276]

I'm not one of these who believes in an "immortal 6." I'm OK with putting MJ, Russell, Wilt and Kareem on their own tier, I suppose, but I already have Bird and Magic on the same tier as Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan. If Kobe wins this year he's right in the mix with those players.

[Showtime:Part2]

my current rankings: 1) mj 2) kareem 3) duncan 4) wilt/shaq 6) kobe 7) magic 8) bird

so much for the "immortal 6." kobe winning this yr moves him into 4th all time in my book. imo, kobe will never be higher than 3rd, and he has the potential to shift down as wade/lebron continue on with their careers. to each their own i say...

[SDChargers#1]

After reading this thread a few points I want to make clear, imo of course...

1) Peak absolutely matters when determining greatest of all time list.

However,

2) Longevity matters an equal amount in determining who the greatest of all time.

For example, someone who has 5 years of the being the best in the league then gets injured and never plays again would definitely be listed lower than someone who has 15 years of being top 2-3 player in the league (this is not referencing anyone specifically but just a generic example).

With that said, this is how my current All Time List looks...

1) Michael Jordan
2) Kareem Abdul Jabaar
3) Magic Johnson
4) Bill Russell
5) Wilt Chamberlain
6) Shaquille Oneal
7) Tim Duncan
8 ) Larry Bird
9) Kobe Bryant
10) Hakeem Olajuwan

If Kobe wins another Title and Finals MVP, this is how my All Time List looks...

1) Michael Jordan
2) Kareem Abdul Jabaar
3) Magic Johnson
4) Bill Russell
5) Wilt Chamberlain
6) Kobe Bryant
7) Shaq
8 ) Tim Duncan
9) Larry Bird
10) Hakeem Olajuwan