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Basileus777 wrote:People are greatly underestimating how Yao's vulnerability to fronting makes it difficult to build an offense around him.

And people are greatly underestimating how Dwight can't create his own shot, but I'm the only one complaining.

if he's healthy, and thats a big if that really will never be a reality, i'd take yao over dwight.

Dwight easily

My take:

I'd have to go with Howard. Better shotblocker and rebounder is huge. It's true that Howard's never put up scoring volume like Yao's peak, but the scoring Howard has done has been more efficient - and I really think that Howard could be scoring more without a loss in efficiency if Nelson & co were better at getting him the ball. There's also the matter that Howard's had more team success, with more impressive +/- numbers.

We'll have to see how this next season plays out - hopefully Yao will get back to his previous levels. As it stands, my view on Yao is colored (possibly unfairly) by the Houston tendency to do almost as well without Yao as with him in the past. Seems like Yao should be able to show great lift on a team, but until it happens, that shred of doubt is there.

Agree, until Yao's numbers translate into some success with more consistency than in the past, you have to go with Howard pretty easily. When/if Yao stay's healty and takes the Rockets deeper into the playoffs (or even to a top 5 in the league regular season), then it makes sense to have this debate.

Even if Yao plays 82 games, you still have to factor in that he's probably lost significant mobility and athleticism due to the continued onslaught of age and surgeries. This hypothetical "healthy Yao" is not gonna be in 25 PPG, 06/07 form, he'll likely be considerably worse than 08/09 Yao, who was averaging 19.7 PPG. Regardless, he's going to be WAY behind Dwight in terms of rebounding and defense, WAY less mobile in general (useless in both offense and defense in terms of transition play), and he's not going to be able to play as many minutes. For me this is Dwight easily in anything but a head to head matchup, where Yao does play Dwight very well.

Worthyblitz- Haha I think you're confusing me for somebody else. I like Yao. Actually, I've been much more critical of Dwight on this board than Yao.

If healthy? Not sure. Probably Dwight, but is is very, very close. Healthy Yao is a great, great player. I'd probably value Dwight's superior ability to anchor a defense. Yao is better on offense because of his iso scoring, but hes not good enough at that aspect of the game for me to make that the deciding factor.

ronnymac2 wrote:Worthyblitz- Haha I think you're confusing me for somebody else. I like Yao. Actually, I've been much more critical of Dwight on this board than Yao.

If healthy? Not sure. Probably Dwight, but is is very, very close. Healthy Yao is a great, great player. I'd probably value Dwight's superior ability to anchor a defense. Yao is better on offense because of his iso scoring, but hes not good enough at that aspect of the game for me to make that the deciding factor.

Ok, you know I'm not sure if this makes a difference to you, but tsherkin earlier in this thread made a post stating that Yao 22/10 (2008) was better than Dwight but Yao 20/9 (2009) isn't, do you feel the same way? I think Yao is better than Dwight either way as long as he's healthy, but what do you think? I think Yao is a better 1 on 1/individual defender by a landslide too.

Dwight > Yao

He's a more dominant presence

An Unbiased Fan wrote:Dwight > Yao

He's a more dominant presence

Yeah, you kinda have no clue what you are talking about.

WorthyBlitz42 wrote:

An Unbiased Fan wrote:Dwight > Yao

He's a more dominant presence

Yeah, you kinda have no clue what you are talking about.

Dwight is the better defender, rebounder. Yao is better offensively, but Dwight is the more dominant presence in the paint and has a much bigger impact on a game than Yao does.

An Unbiased Fan wrote:

WorthyBlitz42 wrote:

An Unbiased Fan wrote:Dwight > Yao

He's a more dominant presence

Yeah, you kinda have no clue what you are talking about.

Dwight is the better defender, rebounder. Yao is better offensively, but Dwight is the more dominant presence in the paint and has a much bigger impact on a game than Yao does.

You have a Skip Bayless as an avatar, Next...

Yao is better. He's Chinese.

WorthyBlitz42 wrote:

An Unbiased Fan wrote:

WorthyBlitz42 wrote:Yeah, you kinda have no clue what you are talking about.

Dwight is the better defender, rebounder. Yao is better offensively, but Dwight is the more dominant presence in the paint and has a much bigger impact on a game than Yao does.

You have a Skip Bayless as an avatar, Next...

Dwight also had back 2 back DPOYs, and led the league in rebs & blocks. Much better than what Yao could do.

I lol at people who put Yao above Dwight.... Yao has led his team out of the first round once... Dwight has led his team to the Finals... Dwight is the better defender, rebounder and shot blocker. Yao is better offensively but Dwight still gives you 20 ppg on league leading fg% and a better TS%...

Dwight is able to play more minutes and ACTUALLY DOES play 82 games a year as opposed to this hypothetically healthy Yao

That Nicka wrote:I lol at people who put Yao above Dwight.... Yao has led his team out of the first round once... Dwight has led his team to the Finals... Dwight is the better defender, rebounder and shot blocker. Yao is better offensively but Dwight still gives you 20 ppg on league leading fg% and a better TS%...

Dwight is able to play more minutes and ACTUALLY DOES play 82 games a year as opposed to this hypothetically healthy Yao

I already destroyed this argument in the Lakers forum, next.

ponder276 wrote:Even if Yao plays 82 games, you still have to factor in that he's probably lost significant mobility and athleticism due to the continued onslaught of age and surgeries. This hypothetical "healthy Yao" is not gonna be in 25 PPG, 06/07 form, he'll likely be considerably worse than 08/09 Yao, who was averaging 19.7 PPG. Regardless, he's going to be WAY behind Dwight in terms of rebounding and defense, WAY less mobile in general (useless in both offense and defense in terms of transition play), and he's not going to be able to play as many minutes. For me this is Dwight easily in anything but a head to head matchup, where Yao does play Dwight very well.

I agree. Just because Yao outplays Dwight head to head does not make him the better player.

WorthyBlitz42 wrote:I already destroyed this argument in the Lakers forum, next.

That Nicka wrote:

WorthyBlitz42 wrote:

That Nicka wrote:I lol at people who put Yao above Dwight.... Yao has led his team out of the first round once... Dwight has led his team to the Finals... Dwight is the better defender, rebounder and shot blocker. Yao is better offensively but Dwight still gives you 20 ppg on league leading fg% and a better TS%...

Dwight is able to play more minutes and ACTUALLY DOES play 82 games a year as opposed to this hypothetically healthy Yao

Too bad Dwight plays in the East, has better teammates and doesn't face elite bigs like Yao usually does. I've read your posts and you know nothing, so If I'm not going to take you seriously then, I don't know why I should take you seriously now.

great analysis

Dwight has never played with a teammate as good as 05-08 Tracy McGrady.
Dwight has gone through a 66 win Cleveland team that was better than any team Yao has lost to in the first round.
Dwight has lead his team to back to back 59 win seasons while also being first team all NBA and DPOY, Yao hasnt come close to matching any of that even when he was healthy.

Next.

Too bad Dwight plays in the East, has better teammates and doesn't face elite bigs like Yao usually does. I've read your posts and you know nothing, so If I'm not going to take you seriously then, I don't know why I should take you seriously now.

LOL Apparently this is destroying an argument

That Nicka wrote:

great analysis

Dwight has never played with a teammate as good as 05-08 Tracy McGrady.
Dwight has gone through a 66 win Cleveland team that was better than any team Yao has lost to in the first round.
Dwight has lead his team to back to back 59 win seasons while also being first team all NBA and DPOY, Yao hasnt come close to matching any of that even when he was healthy.

Next.

Weak, Playing with Tmac is a plus now? Weak sauce, give me someone decent to argument.