Cavaliers are being UNDERESTIMATED big-time

B Mac · Post #81 » by **B Mac** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:39 am

I also dont think they put it in bottles. It was just in a keg in the brewery's restaurant.

shmoosicle · Post #82 » by **shmoosicle** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:11 am

Maternal wrote:
TheOUTLAW wrote:You are a raps fan and you dare to say that a Cavs fan was trolling? You are out of your mind. We got more trolls the game that we lost to the Raps than all the Cavs fans on this site ever trolled all season.

Wrong. we celebrated a good win against a legit title team. Well at the time. It was our right. Cav fans came and starting bashing us, claiming we'd always be a lotto team, we lose all our stars (LOL), and couldn't believe how "we lost to the raptors". Who would have known months later we'd have a better roster? Today isn't promised tomorrow as they say.

Either way. This is just me coming in peace stating my opinions.

We don't have a better roster. As far as I can see the Cavs still have the better team. I think the Cavs will still make the playoffs this year. They still have a lot of good talent, and now it looks like there's the possibility that Barnes will sign with the Cavs instead of the Raptors since we can't afford him. People who put the Cavs at the 15th seed are incredibly ignorant.

Alex_De_Large · Post #83 » by **Alex_De_Large** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:03 pm

with the current roster has no chance to be a top6 team in the east. they should change talent for quantity right now, they are very very deep with good bench players but lack a superstar or better first option. i can't see mo williams being the first option.

cavsfan_osiris · Post #84 » by **cavsfan_osiris** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:53 pm

It's very hard to do well in the NBA without a superstar. They get to the free throw line, they get you calls you normally wouldn't get and get you respect you normally wouldn't.

They have absolutely no shotblocking, a 35 year old SG, no SF and no size with their bigs. Jamison/Mo are the only players who can create for themselves, and neither are great at it. That's not a good situation. It's going to be a rough season as it stands now.

This season is about acquiring young players and evaluating the ones they have now such as Hickson.

The ROY · Post #85 » by **The ROY** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:15 am

**While you did offer some insight, the manner in which you presented it was not appropriate.** ~ Exile

Sundov · Post #86 » by **Sundov** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:16 am

I don't expect Cavs fans to realise that the cavs now have one of the worst rosters in the league. I know its hard to to come to terms with after dominating the the league for the past 2 years. But when your two best players are a mid 30s jamison and mo williams, you are going nowhere. The cavs team is now the sort of team that last season's cavs would blow out. I expect the cavs to still be a good defensive team but without lebron to revolve the offense around and instead relying on mo williams to fill that role is gonna be painful. Again, I don't expect Cavs fans to agree with this but ask any non cavs fan and they will agree with me. I'm expecting 25-35 wins.

There is no shame in rebuilding. The cavs had a good run and got close to winning the ring the last couple of seasons. When you lose the best player in the league and have one of the oldest rosters in the league is their any other solution? If the cavs get lucky in the draft over the next few years and create some cap room, they could be like OKC in about 4 years with Harrison barnes in the Kevin Durant role.

By the way I'm not trolling. The thread title is 'Cavaliers are being UNDERESTIMATED big-time' and I am respectfully disagreeing with that.

Rise Against · Post #87 » by **Rise Against** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:11 am

Sundov wrote:The cavs team is now the sort of team that last season's cavs would blow out.

Pardon me for taking a small snippet of your post.. But to be fair, last season's Cavs would most likely play with a lackluster effort until 5 minutes left and win the game by a hair. That was the case last season when it came to competing with non-contending to mediocre teams.

tidho · Post #88 » by **tidho** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:18 pm

kenneth9265 wrote:I seriously think that the team that we got now can make the playoffs. Lebron didn't win all those games by himself.

LeBron didn't win by himself, and a lot of our players are being underated because they are judged for the roles they played with LeBron, rather than their actual abilities.

-but-

We didn't just lose LeBron. Both centers are basically gone and West will likely be too. By opening night we likely won't have 3 of our top 6 players from last year and may not have added anyone that legitimately can replace them. Our depth will be paper thin, and we'll be learning a new offense.

gregdj · Post #89 » by **gregdj** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:29 pm

dont know about even 7th or 8th seed ... even the raps will dominate them.

mcfly1204 · Post #90 » by **mcfly1204** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:47 pm

gregdj wrote:dont know about even 7th or 8th seed ... even the raps will dominate them.

Good one. Weren't they a lottery team with Bosh?

Gordon Bombay · Post #91 » by **Gordon Bombay** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:40 am

Sundov wrote:I don't expect Cavs fans to realise that the cavs now have one of the worst rosters in the league. I know its hard to to come to terms with after dominating the the league for the past 2 years. But when your two best players are a mid 30s jamison and mo williams, you are going nowhere. The cavs team is now the sort of team that last season's cavs would blow out. I expect the cavs to still be a good defensive team but without lebron to revolve the offense around and instead relying on mo williams to fill that role is gonna be painful. Again, I don't expect Cavs fans to agree with this but ask any non cavs fan and they will agree with me. I'm expecting 25-35 wins.

There is no shame in rebuilding. The cavs had a good run and got close to winning the ring the last couple of seasons. When you lose the best player in the league and have one of the oldest rosters in the league is their any other solution? If the cavs get lucky in the draft over the next few years and create some cap room, they could be like OKC in about 4 years with Harrison barnes in the Kevin Durant role.

By the way I'm not trolling. The thread title is 'Cavaliers are being UNDERESTIMATED big-time' and I am respectfully disagreeing with that.

no, we got that. most of us want the full rebuild because the pieces in place were geared for a former player. without said player, the veterans in place are useless and need to be cast off so we can get some high draft picks (you mentioned harrison barnes and he would be ideal) start the full rebuild. heath's the op and he can be pretty delusional at times

cavsfan_osiris · Post #92 » by **cavsfan_osiris** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:38 am

I think most Cavs fans realize they are rebuilding. They have no other choice.

thaddeusyoungin · Post #93 » by **thaddeusyoungin** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:37 pm

Only read OP... If you think the Cavs should do anything other than rebuild you are delusional. Cavs need to ship Mo Williams and Varejao out for picks and young talent. With the current roster they are guaranteed to be one of the 10 worst teams in the league next year, probably top 5, and conceivably the worst.

gflem · Post #94 » by **gflem** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:20 pm

You could have read the post directly before yours, but I guess calling people whose opinion you didnt bother to read "delusional" seemed like a better option. And, no this team as it stands has no chance barring a rash of injuries to be the worst in the league.
One of the 10 worst? Yeah thats definitely possible. I would hope we do move Antwan for young players and or picks, and even Mo for the right package as well. And I also hope to be drafting in the top 5 next season. First would be even better.

Jstarks3 · Post #95 » by **Jstarks3** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:24 pm

wait a second.

did someone say the cavs are gonna win 50 games this season?

Post #96 » by **nate33** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:19 pm

The Cavs' problem is that they don't have a single "two way" player in the rotation. Mo and Jamison are one-dimensional scorers. Parker, Moon and Varajeo are one-dimensional defenders who looked better on offense with Lebron setting them up. With Lebron gone, teams will load up on Jamison and Mo Williams. Jamison has a lot of pride and won't quit on you guys, but he is a hapless defender and his offense is heavily reliant on jumpers.

You simply must rebuild. The only keepers on the roster are Hickson, Sessions and Hollins - and they're merely role players with little star potential. I'd use Varajeo (who has value) and your expiring contracts as trade bait to land crappy players with 2012 contracts plus whatever good picks/prospect you can get. The goal is to tank this year and next year while accumulating young talent. In 2012, you'll have two high lotto picks (yours from 2011 and yours from 2012), Sessions, Hollins and Hickson, whatever picks/prospects you received in the Varajeo/Moon/Parker trades, and a ton of cap space. There will probably be some version of a new Allan Houston rule in 2012 to allow team to dump overpaid players. If you have cap room at the time, you should be able to scoop some of them up on the cheap.

Silvie Lysandra · Post #97 » by **Silvie Lysandra** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:51 pm

Oh wow.

I disagree 100% with your assessment.

I think Mo Williams can be one of those "1st option on an average team" type players, someone who can score 20-22 a game on good efficiency and add 6-8 quality assists. Jamison will give you 20/8 as usual, and I'm sure Cleveland can find a way to cover his D. Varejao and Parker are role players, but you can't simply get rid of an all-NBA defender with not much mileage on his body. Obviously there's a gaping hole at 3 (and you should have used West to fill that hole, not get another C and a backup PG), and Moon isn't a starter.

I think the Cavs can win 35-42 if their defense holds up.

The fact is, while I dunno about 2012, 2011 is going to be one of the worst drafts in recent memory. Harrison Barnes is good but is nowhere near a superstar prospect. Perry Jones is Andray Blatche with a bit more polish and a lot more hype. Vescely is Joe Alexander with a few more inches on him - what exactly does he do well? Motiejunas is Bargs 2.0. So on and so forth.

Oh yeah, the impending lockout may cause a lot of players not to declare, particularly Barnes, who reports say is very interested in getting an education. Same with the Euros. I'm telling you, the 2011 draft is going to be UGLY.

It's still early, but 2011 is looking like a 2000 or 2001-style draft, with busts all over the place - and you want to tank for THAT? Probably, I'd look to deal Jamison for Diaw + 1st, then leverage the expectation of Cleveland sucking in order to grab a 2012 and 2014 unprotected first from a team and gamble.

But all in all, a full tank job isn't worth it going into one of the worst drafts ever, and Cleveland will sell more tickets if they at least try to compete. They can try it once 2012 rolls around and we see a much stronger class with a deeper FA class (BOYDs become more of an option here) though.

cavsfan_osiris · Post #98 » by **cavsfan_osiris** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:01 pm

nate33 wrote:You simply must rebuild. The only keepers on the roster are Hickson, Sessions and Hollins - and they're merely role players with little star potential. I'd use Varajeo (who has value) and your expiring contracts as trade bait to land crappy players with 2012 contracts plus whatever good picks/prospect you can get. The goal is to tank this year and next year while accumulating young talent. In 2012, you'll have two high lotto picks (yours from 2011 and yours from 2012), Sessions, Hollins and Hickson, whatever picks/prospects you received in the Varajeo/Moon/Parker trades, and a ton of cap space. There will probably be some version of a new Allan Houston rule in 2012 to allow team to dump overpaid players. If you have cap room at the time, you should be able to scoop some of them up on the cheap.

I agree 100% with this whole post. Most any other approach will only delay the process further.

vct33 · Post #99 » by **vct33** » Sun Aug 1, 2010 11:29 am

Chaos Revenant wrote:I think the Cavs can win 35-42 if their defense holds up.

Their defense won't hold up. They don't have any standout defenders and they have a few very, very bad defenders who will be seeing major minutes. They are looking at 25 wins.

Chaos Revenant wrote:

But all in all, a full tank job isn't worth it going into one of the worst drafts ever, and Cleveland will sell more tickets if they at least try to compete.

They aren't going to try to tank. They are just going to be so bad that it looks like a tank. If they can trade a few guys like Jamison, Williams or Varejao for some youth and picks, it would look like a tank because all of a sudden they become a 12-15 win team. However, that is their best move if they can get a little young talent.

RRT · Post #100 » by **RRT** » Sun Aug 1, 2010 1:50 pm

vct33 wrote:
Chaos Revenant wrote:I think the Cavs can win 35-42 if their defense holds up.

Their defense won't hold up. They don't have any standout defenders and they have a few very, very bad defenders who will be seeing major minutes. They are looking at 25 wins.

Chaos Revenant wrote:

But all in all, a full tank job isn't worth it going into one of the worst drafts ever, and Cleveland will sell more tickets if they at least try to compete.

They aren't going to try to tank. They are just going to be so bad that it looks like a tank. If they can trade a few guys like Jamison, Williams or Varejao for some youth and picks, it would look like a tank because all of a sudden they become a 12-15 win team. However, that is their best move if they can get a little young talent.

We don't have a stand out defenders? but we had some last year?

you think all nba 2nd team means anything?