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D1ckeyS1mpkins wrote:While I HOPE this isn't true... my cynical side is starting to think they won't announce anything about Rose sitting out the season until after Playoff tickets go on presale.

from a PR perspective that would be suicide. both thibs and rose have said publicly that he might not come back 'till the playoffs

AAU Teammate wrote:

mymysql wrote:Roae needs to be given an ultimatum, come back by Sunday or publically announce he's going to be a bitch and not even give it a shot. How much longer can this drag on?

Not an option. We should all agree here that the worst possible outcome of all this is the Bulls and Rose hating each other.

Sure we have a small chance to win the ECF this year. It is not worth increased frictions with Rose. If Rose skips the year I will dislike it, disapprove, and yet grin and bear it.

I believe what I believe on the matter, but I dont torch things because of how strong I'm holding onto my beliefs.

This is the point I've come in this process also. The ad campaign and him stating his return date is up to god has been to much for me.

At some point though, whether its this season or next, Rose is going to come back and drop some ridiculous stat line and all will be forgotten. These next couple months would be very exciting with Rose but that's not worth ruining his long term commitment to the franchise with demands. I know he makes 16 million and is medically cleared to play but look at the recent history of this league these superstars ego's are that fragile. Thinking our superstar is something different is stupid...

Wharton Alum 08 wrote:With a meniscus tear which I was also told very minor and not really necessary for a knee by some in this thread.

So because Granger got hurt with a meniscus tear and missed significantly less time than Rose, Rose shouldn't be playing?

I counter Danny Granger with Adrian Peterson, who was playing by now and was dominating the NFL. Boom.

No one, other either side, should be comparing different athletes injuries to Rose. AT THIS POINT, Rose is healthy (his words, not mine).

DanTown8587 wrote:

Wharton Alum 08 wrote:With a meniscus tear which I was also told very minor and not really necessary for a knee by some in this thread.

So because Granger got hurt with a meniscus tear and missed significantly less time than Rose, Rose shouldn't be playing?

I counter Danny Granger with Adrian Peterson, who was playing by now and was dominating the NFL. Boom.

No one, other either side, should be comparing different athletes injuries to Rose. AT THIS POINT, Rose is healthy (his words, not mine).

It wasn't even Granger that had the tear, it was Metta World Peace....and neither of them had anything to do with Rose. I just brought up World Peace becaue it isn't often you get a chance to say there will be no World Peace for 6 weeks



Ok...ok....not my best work...

Ummmm...you'v been great...I'll be here all week....don't forget to tip the staff!

kyrv wrote:The prescribed rehab is playing in real games.

Do you have a quote where his doctor says he needs to play in an NBA game ?
Or somebody's quote recommending that he plays basketball ?

Because those are vastly different statements.
(Rose's doctor/"people") && (Recommending/needing) && (play basketball/play in the NBA)

panthermark wrote:Because that is exactly what Rose said....

Actually Derrick has said the mental part is fine in the interviews I've seen. Do you have an actual source where Derrick Rose says he is afraid of testing his knee in an NBA game and that is the specific reason he is not playing ?

pylb wrote:

kyrv wrote:The prescribed rehab is playing in real games.

Do you have a quote where his doctor says he needs to play in an NBA game ?
Or somebody's quote recommending that he plays basketball ?

Because those are vastly different statements.
(Rose's doctor/"people") && (Recommending/needing) && (play basketball/play in the NBA)

panthermark wrote:Because that is exactly what Rose said....

Actually Derrick has said the mental part is fine in the interviews I've seen. Do you have an actual source where Derrick Rose says he is afraid of testing his knee in an NBA game and that is the specific reason he is not playing ?

Someone earlier reported that it was just discussed on one of the radio programs. The 8-12 months included games. Also, Rose's doctor

Cole said it’s unlikely that he would recommend Rose sit out the entire season if his rehab is progressing satisfactorily.

“There’s actually a lot of therapeutic benefit to start with [limited] minutes,” he said. “All those muscles have to kick in. Obviously, you can do that off the court, but there’s a lot of benefit when he’s safe. Whether he has to go 40 minutes, that’s a whole different story. But just [u]getting out there and playing when he’s able, that’s when his exponential growth will come.[/u]

“Lots of athletes go back and play at a very high level but are not initially at the level they were pre-injury.”

Why would Dr Cole mention 40 minutes if he were not talking about games?

As for your second question.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1241634&start=45#p35246707
My comment at the end really sums this up.

I will see how rondo handles his acl tear. they already said he is starting the beginning of next season and I bet he does. that would be 8 months of rehab for him. I doubt he plays pre season but I bet he will be ready for the start of the season. rose is just precrasinating hard. he knows hes ready. seem like he knows hes going to not be himself and doesn't want to have the team on his back cause he knows thibs will use him more and more every game. if the doctors say hes cleared then why take another month off all because his mind isn't where it needs to be. im getting tired of this run around. its either he playing or not. cut the bs

I think it's a huge stretch to read/hear Cole's comments and take away that he meant that the color of the opposing jerseys, the presence of Joey Crawford and TV cameras etc help the rehab more than the exact same physical movements in "practice" games. I just never will understand that - the notion people have that Derrick somehow trying to avoid the last stage of his rehab. As long as he's getting better in practices (making progress), which it seems he is, and we're not yet playing playoff games, it should be 100% acceptable IMO that he's out.

panthermark wrote:

pylb wrote:

kyrv wrote:The prescribed rehab is playing in real games.

Do you have a quote where his doctor says he needs to play in an NBA game ?
Or somebody's quote recommending that he plays basketball ?

Because those are vastly different statements.
(Rose's doctor/"people") && (Recommending/needing) && (play basketball/play in the NBA)

panthermark wrote:Because that is exactly what Rose said....

Actually Derrick has said the mental part is fine in the interviews I've seen. Do you have an actual source where Derrick Rose says he is afraid of testing his knee in an NBA game and that is the specific reason he is not playing ?

Someone earlier reported that it was just discussed on one of the radio programs. The 8-12 months included games. Also, Rose's doctor

Cole said it’s unlikely that he would recommend Rose sit out the entire season if his rehab is progressing satisfactorily.

“There’s actually a lot of therapeutic benefit to start with [limited] minutes,” he said. “All those muscles have to kick in. Obviously, you can do that off the court, but there’s a lot of benefit when he’s safe. Whether he has to go 40 minutes, that’s a whole different story. But just [u]getting out there and playing when he’s able, that’s when his exponential growth will come.[/u]

“Lots of athletes go back and play at a very high level but are not initially at the level they were pre-injury.”

Why would Dr Cole mention 40 minutes if he were not talking about games?

As for your second question.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1241634&start=45#p35246707
My comment at the end really sums this up.

I would also ask pylb, does he have any evidence that Rose is injured and should not be continuing his rehab?

He's doing something different than the accepted norm so quite frankly the burden of proof is on him.

mymysql wrote:I'm not sure why with Rose it has to be all or nothing. I'm a bit sore therefore I cannot suit up. How are Lu and Jo feeling while logging 40+ minutes every night?

He wants to MVP Rose as soon as he steps foot on the court.

Gar Paxdorf wrote:I think it's a huge stretch to read/hear Cole's comments and take away that he meant that the color of the opposing jerseys, the presence of Joey Crawford and TV cameras etc help the rehab more than the exact same physical movements in "practice" games. I just never will understand that - the notion people have that Derrick somehow trying to avoid the last stage of his rehab. As long as he's getting better in practices (making progress), which it seems he is, and we're not yet playing playoff games, it should be 100% acceptable IMO that he's out.

I don't think it's a huge stretch, but if we assume practice and games are the same, that thoroughly and utterly destroys any reason to not be playing.

There's just no way to spin the practicing hard and well for 5 weeks and doing everything as a form of defense of not playing.

" I just never will understand that - the notion people have that Derrick somehow trying to avoid the last stage of his rehab"

He is avoiding it, at least for those who don't think it's blue flu.

Playing is the last part of rehab.

There's a reason nobody remotely involved is saying Rose shouldn't be playing. Even Reggie isn't claiming he "can't play basketball".

BullsHOF wrote:

mymysql wrote:I'm not sure why with Rose it has to be all or nothing. I'm a bit sore therefore I cannot suit up. How are Lu and Jo feeling while logging 40+ minutes every night?

He wants to MVP Rose as soon as he steps foot on the court.

That seems to be correct, unfortunately. This goes back to the 110% comment. Easing back into the game with limited minutes, for instance, doesn't seem to be an option.

HomoSapien wrote:

BullsHOF wrote:

mymysql wrote:I'm not sure why with Rose it has to be all or nothing. I'm a bit sore therefore I cannot suit up. How are Lu and Jo feeling while logging 40+ minutes every night?

He wants to MVP Rose as soon as he steps foot on the court.

That seems to be correct, unfortunately. This goes back to the 110% comment. Easing back into the game with limited minutes, for instance, doesn't seem to be an option.

That's my belief, that he's getting bad advice and lack of advice.

From his comments, he thinks he can skip the playing in games rehab part, and part of that is perhaps not playing great, at least that's the norm.

------------------------------------------------

By the way for those that vilified the Bulls for trying to get Rose, they've now backed off. I hope none of those people are complaining about Rose not playing.

kyrv wrote:I don't think it's a huge stretch, but if we assume practice and games are the same, that thoroughly and utterly destroys any reason to not be playing.

I disagree. The reasons to not be playing are multiple. First, waiting until he's stronger might give us a psychological advantage over opponents relative to coming back a little weaker and appearing to opponents, as, well, weaker. Second, with practice, he can better limit and regulate his physical output to maximize efficient rehabbing. Notice Derrick has recently referred to just how much he's trying to eat and sleep correctly. Once he starts playing in games, just due to the possibility of playing 48 minutes (which I think both Rose and Thibbs want on the table as an option should he return - I don't think they believe in minutes limits and I'd bet that Thibbs after hearing all about the Pax-VDN-Noah fight made this belief crystal clear prior to joining the Bulls in 2010), his rate of improvement might stagnate.

There's just no way to spin the practicing hard and well for 5 weeks and doing everything as a form of defense of not playing.

" I just never will understand that - the notion people have that Derrick somehow trying to avoid the last stage of his rehab"

He is avoiding it, at least for those who don't think it's blue flu.

Playing is the last part of rehab.

He is playing. Against other red jerseys. Do you and others actually believe that the color of the other jerseys will affect his status? I don't. BUT, it might help the team for him to sit a bit longer for the reasons I've described.

There's a reason nobody remotely involved is saying Rose shouldn't be playing. Even Reggie isn't claiming he "can't play basketball".

Well obviously at least Derrick Rose - the most involved person by far - thinks he shouldn't be playing games yet. We can guess the reasons for this. I don't think it's as simple as one reason. However, I do think he's earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt at least until the playoffs begin. If he's not back by then, then I think he should be held to more scrutiny. I'm a big believer that playoff seeding between #2-#8 doesn't really matter, and we're guaranteed to be in that range, so....

Actually, we don't need to guess the reasons he's not playing. They're not a secret. He feels "weird". He hasn't adjusted to his new normal to his satisfaction yet, but he's getting closer by the day. That's where we're at.

Gar Paxdorf wrote:

kyrv wrote:I don't think it's a huge stretch, but if we assume practice and games are the same, that thoroughly and utterly destroys any reason to not be playing.

I disagree. The reasons to not be playing are multiple. First, waiting until he's stronger might give us a psychological advantage over opponents relative to coming back a little weaker and appearing to opponents, as, well, weaker.

Come on man. I love you. But you're killing me here. This just can't be a valid reason for not doing one's job. Postponing his rehab and doing his job just can't be superseded by maybe giving a psychological advantage. Come on man.

Second, with practice, he can better limit and regulate his physical output to maximize efficient rehabbing.
...

You've just helped explain in small part why practice and real games are not the same.

Yep, Rose seems to have this fetish about coming back as an MVP level player in his first game.

I don't think it's realistic, not just because of the knee but because of all the time away from the game. Jordan bricked for 3 weeks or so when he came back from the foot injury in '86. He bricked for longer than that when he came back from retirement in '95, he shot only 41% for the regular season == 10 points worse than he did the next year.

One could well argue that Rose is making next year worse, not better, by delaying his return to the NBA court, so that the time period when he is out becomes even longer than it already has been.

It's a strange notion, this idea of returning at 100%.

Gar Paxdorf wrote:Actually, we don't need to guess the reasons he's not playing. They're not a secret. He feels "weird". He hasn't adjusted to his new normal to his satisfaction yet, but he's getting closer by the day. That's where we're at.

If you believe him, which I do, this is normal and part of the rehab and he should be playing as he was cleared over 5 weeks ago.

If Rose plays the rest of the season, gets over the mental hurdle and starts trusting his knee, we will most likely have a 100% Rose to start next season

If Rose doesn't play, doesn't test his knee, the mental hurdle issue will linger until he plays next season, we will likely not have a 100% Rose.

All we can do is hope that even though he doesn't play this season, he can some how get confidence in his knee without playing in NBA games and start the season at 100%.

I know this probably does not mean anything but this was tweeted earlier today but later removed. Dont know where he go this from or why he posted it

"Chicago Bulls Rumor yesterday is that Comcast said Reggie Rose now thinks the Bulls have enough to win. Can anyone verify this? -- Chicago Bulls Rumors (@chicagobullsbot)"