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i'll never understand this myth that greats are supposed to "elevate" a bunch of trash teammates to championship levels.

It shouldn't be held against Garnett that he played on bad teams the majority of his career in a ridiculously tough West.
The same way people need to stop holding it against Iverson and they did it against LeBron before he went to Miami.


Magically Kevin Love will become an all time great when he inevitably wins a couple championships with LeBron in Cleveland, as if he coincidently became a better player now that he gets LeBron and Kyrie instead of Rubio and Kevin Martin

Ever think that his stats might be a little juiced by playing with weaker teammates? It's an argument we often see against players on bad teams. Prime KG vs Duncan is kinda like prime Kobe vs TMac. One guy is ranked significantly higher all time, yet at their best there wasn't much separation. I still lean Duncan's way. I think he was the better go-to scorer in a tough spot and was a better defensive anchor, which I value more than KG's superior individual defense.

COM_GTFO wrote:

Timmaytime wrote:TD won in '03 with a 20 year old Tony Parker, a 37 year old David Robinson and Captain Jack. They beat Shaq and Kobe too.

That's a ridiculous argument that you're making

TD>>>>KG anyday of the week

Jesus Christ, so your argument is: "Tim Duncan had a great playoff run on a 60-win team in 2003, therefore he's better than KG."

Wow. Insightful.

I'm just saying that implying TD didn't "deserve" his rings or that KG would have won more with TD's cast is short sighted. Duncan did not have a great team around him in '03, he carried a good team to a championship.

All KG ever did was make a good team into a really good one

JordansBulls wrote:

COM_GTFO wrote:

Gus Fring wrote:Something was missing from Garnett's game.

Yeah. Help.

What do you call prime Terrell Brandon and Chauncey Billups back in 2002 and Prime Cassell and Sprewell in 2004? Those guys were better than Manu and Parker were in 2003.

Prime Billups in Minnesota? What am I missing?

Joao Saraiva wrote:

COM_GTFO wrote:

Joao Saraiva wrote:KG's bad ts% is explained by his bad teams? Then why doesn't his ts% go way up in 2008? He's playing with as good as Tim's best supporting cast.

The Kobe analogy is not that good, even tough Kobe really had better stats in some series vs Spurs (see 2001 for example).

If you want a superstar with more success than Garnett between 1999 and 2007 with the Wolves I'll give LeBron James.

Not at all. KG's the one shooting the ball therefore KG is responsible for his own TS%. But the fact that KG was the only one on his team who wasn't washed up/a scrub made it pretty damn hard for him to shoot as efficiently as somebody like Duncan. The Minny offense was literally - give it to Kevin, see what he can do.

You act like KG didn't get any more efficient during his time in Boston. despite the fact that KG's FG% went up to 53% during his first 4 years in Boston and his FT% went up to 83% - compared to the 49% and 80% he was putting up in Minnesota. The only reason his TS% didn't go up is because the metric is a little strange with 3-pointers, which KG pretty much stopped shooting once he got to Boston.

No, the Kobe analogy sucks, because you failed to understand the simple difference between head-to-head individual stats vs. head-to-head team records.

As for LeBron doing more with a worse team. Everytime LeBron's Cavs made a playoff run, they were defensively stacked/great on the boards/great at shooting - oh yeah, and they play in the East, where winning 50 games makes you a top-2 seed.

Ilgauskas (good defender), Hughes (come on), Daniel Gibson and Gooden! So stacked on D!!!! Young LeBron went to the finals with that team.

Also from those only big Z is a good rebounder. Gooden is average at best for a PF.

Also LeBron beat the Pistons that only had Sheed, Prince, Hamilton and Chauncey (4 all-star players) by himself.

In 01-02 Garnett played with prime Sczerbiak (if he counts for stacked shooting in Cleveland, imagine in his prime with the Wolves) who scored 18.7 PPG with 58%ts and above 45% from 3 (that's elite!). He also had Billups at age 25 who had a near 39% year from 3, and Brandon who averaged 8.3 APG on only 1.3 TOPG. So if you're saying Cleveland's rosters were stacked, I'll say Minnesota's rosters are also stacked. Also Cassell in 04 had 19.8 PPG and 7.3 APG. Sorry but no, Wolve's teams were not good, but Cavs sucked too. When the best player to play with LeBron in Cleveland was Mo Williams you know there is a problem with those rosters. And LeBron lead them twice to the best record in the league, so it's not like he's making the playoffs because he's in the East.

How far are you going to discredit the best player ever for your franchise to protect KG?

When you're deliberately ignoring players like Varejao, Snow and Pavlovic (all good defenders), you're not really making a point.

Also the 2007 Cavs were a great rebouding team, and not because of LeBron. Big Z-Gooden-Varejao was a very good tandem rebounding-wise.

Anyway, we're not really comparing LeBron with Garnett here, are we?

youngcrev wrote:Ever think that his stats might be a little juiced by playing with weaker teammates? It's an argument we often see against players on bad teams. Prime KG vs Duncan is kinda like prime Kobe vs TMac. One guy is ranked significantly higher all time, yet at their best there wasn't much separation. I still lean Duncan's way. I think he was the better go-to scorer in a tough spot and was a better defensive anchor, which I value more than KG's superior individual defense.

The only KG stat I think that is slightly blown out of proportion as a result of playing on a trash team is the assists.

On a better team, he wouldn't have been asked to handle the ball as much, so he'd probably be more of a 3-4 APG guy instead of a 5-6 APG guy. But he was good enough and dominant enough that his other numbers would probably be similar regardles of where he went.

Before we continue to have another KG/Duncan discussion (of which we had plenty in the Top 100 project), maybe we should begin with KG/Dirk (of which we had basically none in the Top 100 project, strangely) first - at least I'd love to hear why Garnett is better than Nowitzki by such a significant margin that he should be ranked 5 spots higher (#11 vs. #16) than him. (I am aware that RAPM gives the edge to KG whereas PER/WS.48 favor Dirk, with eye test verdict being debatable.) Because, honestly, how can Garnett be better than Duncan when he is not even better than Nowitzki (my opinion) who is rightly considered as the clearly inferior player to Duncan?
I just have a problem with Garnett being discussed for the #1 all-time PF spot when there is not a clear case for him to be even #2.

Joao Saraiva wrote:Ilgauskas (good defender), Hughes (come on), Daniel Gibson and Gooden! So stacked on D!!!! Young LeBron went to the finals with that team.

Also from those only big Z is a good rebounder. Gooden is average at best for a PF.

Also LeBron beat the Pistons that only had Sheed, Prince, Hamilton and Chauncey (4 all-star players) by himself.

In 01-02 Garnett played with prime Sczerbiak (if he counts for stacked shooting in Cleveland, imagine in his prime with the Wolves) who scored 18.7 PPG with 58%ts and above 45% from 3 (that's elite!). He also had Billups at age 25 who had a near 39% year from 3, and Brandon who averaged 8.3 APG on only 1.3 TOPG. So if you're saying Cleveland's rosters were stacked, I'll say Minnesota's rosters are also stacked. Also Cassell in 04 had 19.8 PPG and 7.3 APG. Sorry but no, Wolve's teams were not good, but Cavs sucked too. When the best player to play with LeBron in Cleveland was Mo Williams you know there is a problem with those rosters. And LeBron lead them twice to the best record in the league, so it's not like he's making the playoffs because he's in the East.

How far are you going to discredit the best player ever for your franchise to protect KG?

1. The 07 Cavs were the only team in the league that was in the top 3 for both ORB% and DRB% - they were essentially the best rebounding team in the league. The fact that they did this without a single guy getting over 8.5 RPG also means that they were a great rebounding TEAM. It wasn't like they had a 14 RPG center - every guy on that roster was hustling for boards.

2. The 07 Cavs were in the top 5 in both lowest own TOV% and highest oppositon TOV% - in other words, they were great at getting turnovers and not committing them - more possessions = more shots = better chance to win.

3. In addition to being great at managing possessions & rebounding, they were also the 4th best defensive team in the league according to Def. Rtg - and this was before LeBron became a serious defender.

4. The Cavs played in the East where it was both easier to win and easier to make the playoffs with a bad record.

5. The other LeBron-led Cavs teams were ALWAYS either an elite rebounding team (07-08), elite defensive team (08-09, 09-10) or an elite shooting team (08-09, 09-10).

6. The fact you're even trying to compare the Cavs with Garnett's Wolves - who in the 05/06 season had Trenton Hassell and Marko Jaric as their two guys with the most minutes after Garnett - is laughable.

Learn your basketball history.

sca wrote:

Joao Saraiva wrote:

COM_GTFO wrote:
Not at all. KG's the one shooting the ball therefore KG is responsible for his own TS%. But the fact that KG was the only one on his team who wasn't washed up/a scrub made it pretty damn hard for him to shoot as efficiently as somebody like Duncan. The Minny offense was literally - give it to Kevin, see what he can do.

You act like KG didn't get any more efficient during his time in Boston. despite the fact that KG's FG% went up to 53% during his first 4 years in Boston and his FT% went up to 83% - compared to the 49% and 80% he was putting up in Minnesota. The only reason his TS% didn't go up is because the metric is a little strange with 3-pointers, which KG pretty much stopped shooting once he got to Boston.

No, the Kobe analogy sucks, because you failed to understand the simple difference between head-to-head individual stats vs. head-to-head team records.

As for LeBron doing more with a worse team. Everytime LeBron's Cavs made a playoff run, they were defensively stacked/great on the boards/great at shooting - oh yeah, and they play in the East, where winning 50 games makes you a top-2 seed.

Ilgauskas (good defender), Hughes (come on), Daniel Gibson and Gooden! So stacked on D!!!! Young LeBron went to the finals with that team.

Also from those only big Z is a good rebounder. Gooden is average at best for a PF.

Also LeBron beat the Pistons that only had Sheed, Prince, Hamilton and Chauncey (4 all-star players) by himself.

In 01-02 Garnett played with prime Sczerbiak (if he counts for stacked shooting in Cleveland, imagine in his prime with the Wolves) who scored 18.7 PPG with 58%ts and above 45% from 3 (that's elite!). He also had Billups at age 25 who had a near 39% year from 3, and Brandon who averaged 8.3 APG on only 1.3 TOPG. So if you're saying Cleveland's rosters were stacked, I'll say Minnesota's rosters are also stacked. Also Cassell in 04 had 19.8 PPG and 7.3 APG. Sorry but no, Wolve's teams were not good, but Cavs sucked too. When the best player to play with LeBron in Cleveland was Mo Williams you know there is a problem with those rosters. And LeBron lead them twice to the best record in the league, so it's not like he's making the playoffs because he's in the East.

How far are you going to discredit the best player ever for your franchise to protect KG?

When you're deliberately ignoring players like Varejao, Snow and Pavlovic (all good defenders), you're not really making a point.

Also the 2007 Cavs were a great rebouding team, and not because of LeBron. Big Z-Gooden-Varejao was a very good tandem rebounding-wise.

Anyway, we're not really comparing LeBron with Garnett here, are we?

Varejao is a good energizer from the bench, and great rebounder. As a defender he's good but not even close to elite.
Snow and Pavlovic... well if those are the players that make your team be stacked then the Utah Jazz were stacked last year. Favors is better than Varejao, Burks is better than Snow and Hayward is better than Pavlovic. For Christ sake Pavlovic couldn't even get 10 PPG and 2 RPG in his career. Is this a joke? If he was so good on D why no other team ever made him play at decent level? He was playing at the age of 26, 12 MPG for Minnesota!

LeBron didn't make the Cavs a great rebounding team in 07, despite having 6.7 RPG in the regular season and 7.8 RPG in the post season. Last time I checked, those are good numbers for a small forward, and considering he was the primary scorer and playmaker of the team, that has to be somthing positive right? Ilgauskas had 7.7 in the regular season and 9.7 in the playoffs. It's good, but I'm pretty sure there are better rebounding Cs in the NBA. In the case of Gooden, that is true he was a great rebounder.

About the comparison between LeBron and KG... OP was asking me of a star that had more success with a bad cast than KG. And I told him LeBron James. So I'm just replying.

COM_GTFO wrote:

Joao Saraiva wrote:Ilgauskas (good defender), Hughes (come on), Daniel Gibson and Gooden! So stacked on D!!!! Young LeBron went to the finals with that team.

Also from those only big Z is a good rebounder. Gooden is average at best for a PF.

Also LeBron beat the Pistons that only had Sheed, Prince, Hamilton and Chauncey (4 all-star players) by himself.

In 01-02 Garnett played with prime Sczerbiak (if he counts for stacked shooting in Cleveland, imagine in his prime with the Wolves) who scored 18.7 PPG with 58%ts and above 45% from 3 (that's elite!). He also had Billups at age 25 who had a near 39% year from 3, and Brandon who averaged 8.3 APG on only 1.3 TOPG. So if you're saying Cleveland's rosters were stacked, I'll say Minnesota's rosters are also stacked. Also Cassell in 04 had 19.8 PPG and 7.3 APG. Sorry but no, Wolve's teams were not good, but Cavs sucked too. When the best player to play with LeBron in Cleveland was Mo Williams you know there is a problem with those rosters. And LeBron lead them twice to the best record in the league, so it's not like he's making the playoffs because he's in the East.

How far are you going to discredit the best player ever for your franchise to protect KG?

1. The 07 Cavs were the only team in the league that was in the top 3 for both ORB% and DRB% - they were essentially the best rebounding team in the league. The fact that they did this without a single guy getting over 8.5 RPG also means that they were a great rebounding TEAM. It wasn't like they had a 14 RPG center - every guy on that roster was hustling for boards.

2. The 07 Cavs were in the top 5 in both lowest own TOV% and highest oppositon TOV% - in other words, they were great at getting turnovers and not committing them - more possessions = more shots = better chance to win.

3. In addition to being great at managing possessions & rebounding, they were also the 4th best defensive team in the league according to Def. Rtg - and this was before LeBron became a serious defender.

4. The Cavs played in the East where it was both easier to win and easier to make the playoffs with a bad record.

5. The other LeBron-led Cavs teams were ALWAYS either an elite rebounding team (07-08), elite defensive team (08-09, 09-10) or an elite shooting team (08-09, 09-10).

6. The fact you're even trying to compare the Cavs with Garnett's Wolves - who in the 05/06 season had Trenton Hassell and Marko Jaric as their two guys with the most minutes after Garnett - is laughable.

Learn your basketball history.

I'm sure LeBron had nothing to do with Cleveland being elite at all those things.

In 2011 with Mo Williams, Parker, Hickson, Jamison, Moon, Varejao and Daniel Gibson (all of them played big minutes in 2010 - Moon was the only one who was not that important) they were on pace for the worse team in the league. Maybe it was because Ilgauskas left the team... he was that good in 2010.

Mo Williams went from all-star to bench player in other teams, Jamison was done, Hickson went from all-star prospect to role player, Moon disappeared, Gibson was never given a chance anywhere else... That was a great cast.

Learn your basketball history.

Joao Saraiva wrote:I'm sure LeBron had nothing to do with Cleveland being elite at all those things.

In 2011 with Mo Williams, Parker, Hickson, Jamison, Moon, Varejao and Daniel Gibson (all of them played big minutes in 2010 - Moon was the only one who was not that important) they were on pace for the worse team in the league. Maybe it was because Ilgauskas left the team... he was that good in 2010.

Mo Williams went from all-star to bench player in other teams, Jamison was done, Hickson went from all-star prospect to role player, Moon disappeared, Gibson was never given a chance anywhere else... That was a great cast.

Learn your basketball history.

Yeah, you're right. And your sarcasm is unwarranted because it's true. How can ONE MAN who plays SF be responsible for a TEAM BEING ELITE IN REBOUNDING EFFICIENCY? How can ONE MAN who wasn't even an All-Defensive level player and isn't a big man be responsible for a TEAM BEING ELITE IN TEAM DEFENSE? You know nothing about basketball. You're the classic know-it-all-but-actually-know-nothing fan. You attribute all team accomplishments & team success to the best player - after all he's the only one you know. And you ignore all players who didn't make multiple All-Star teams/isn't a household name without actually watching the games or looking closer at their contributions. I know you didn't watch the Cavs, and when you did, you only really watched LeBron so why are you acting like you even know about the team?

Oh my God, you used the "Cavs were terrible because LeBron left". Congratulations on using the most generic, lame argument that all LBJ fans use to downplay the help LeBron got in Cleveland. And congrats on being one of the least well-informed people on this site.

Let's see if it was REALLY just LeBron's departure that led to the Cavs being terrible:

1. They lost their coach who was responsible for the slow, defensive style Cleveland had developed.
2. They got a new coach in Byron Scott who tried to make the Cavs a fast up-tempo team (25th in pace in 2009-10, 10th in pace in 2010-11)
3. Mo Williams - 2nd most minutes after LBJ in 2009-10 - got traded mid-season, ruining whatever chemistry the Cavs had.
4. Varejao missed 50 games in 2010-11.
5. Delonte West left
6. Ramon Sessions came in - meaning the Cavs had no point guards from the previous year on their roster.
6. Shaq left.
7. Ilgauskas left.
8. Hickson started for the first time in his career - he also happened to be the guy who played the most minutes for the 2010-11 Cavs.
9. Jamison - their only scoring option - missed 26 games.
10. They moved Gibson from off the bench and into the starting lineup.
11. They signed Ryan Hollins
12. They traded Jamario Moon
13. They traded for Alonzo Gee
14. They drafted and played Christian Eyenga.
15. They played Manny Harris.
16. Only 7 guys played more than 44 games.
17. THE CAVS WEREN'T TRYING TO WIN ANY MORE.

So they overhauled their entire roster - virtually every single player from the 2010 team with the exception of Parker either left, got traded, hurt or asked to play a completely different role on a completely different team that played a completely different style of ball for a completely different coach. But of course, in your head, the ONLY REASON the Cavs went from a 61-win team to a 19-win team was because LeBron left. HERP DERP. Yep. M'kay, buddy.

Stick to Utah, and if you want to explore your mancrush for LeBron, can you do it on another thread? I don't want you to derail this one any further.

COM_GTFO wrote:

Joao Saraiva wrote:I'm sure LeBron had nothing to do with Cleveland being elite at all those things.

In 2011 with Mo Williams, Parker, Hickson, Jamison, Moon, Varejao and Daniel Gibson (all of them played big minutes in 2010 - Moon was the only one who was not that important) they were on pace for the worse team in the league. Maybe it was because Ilgauskas left the team... he was that good in 2010.

Mo Williams went from all-star to bench player in other teams, Jamison was done, Hickson went from all-star prospect to role player, Moon disappeared, Gibson was never given a chance anywhere else... That was a great cast.

Learn your basketball history.

Yeah, you're right. And your sarcasm is unwarranted because it's true. How can ONE MAN who plays SF be responsible for a TEAM BEING ELITE IN REBOUNDING EFFICIENCY? How can ONE MAN who wasn't even an All-Defensive level player and isn't a big man be responsible for a TEAM BEING ELITE IN TEAM DEFENSE? You know nothing about basketball. You're the classic know-it-all-but-actually-know-nothing fan. You attribute all team accomplishments & team success to the best player - after all he's the only one you know. And you ignore all players who didn't make multiple All-Star teams/isn't a household name without actually watching the games or looking closer at their contributions. I know you didn't watch the Cavs, and when you did, you only really watched LeBron so why are you acting like you even know about the team?

Oh my God, you used the "Cavs were terrible because LeBron left". Congratulations on using the most generic, lame argument that all LBJ fans use to downplay the help LeBron got in Cleveland. And congrats on being one of the least well-informed people on this site.

Let's see if it was REALLY just LeBron's departure that led to the Cavs being terrible:

1. They lost their coach who was responsible for the slow, defensive style Cleveland had developed.
2. They got a new coach in Byron Scott who tried to make the Cavs a fast up-tempo team (25th in pace in 2009-10, 10th in pace in 2010-11)
3. Mo Williams - 2nd most minutes after LBJ in 2009-10 - got traded mid-season, ruining whatever chemistry the Cavs had.
4. Varejao missed 50 games in 2010-11.
5. Delonte West left
6. Ramon Sessions came in - meaning the Cavs had no point guards from the previous year on their roster.
6. Shaq left.
7. Ilgauskas left.
8. Hickson started for the first time in his career - he also happened to be the guy who played the most minutes for the 2010-11 Cavs.
9. Jamison - their only scoring option - missed 26 games.
10. They moved Gibson from off the bench and into the starting lineup.
11. They signed Ryan Hollins
12. They traded Jamario Moon
13. They traded for Alonzo Gee
14. They drafted and played Christian Eyenga.
15. They played Manny Harris.
16. Only 7 guys played more than 44 games.
17. THE CAVS WEREN'T TRYING TO WIN ANY MORE.

So they overhauled their entire roster - virtually every single player from the 2010 team with the exception of Parker either left, got traded, hurt or asked to play a completely different role on a completely different team that played a completely different style of ball for a completely different coach. But of course, in your head, the ONLY REASON the Cavs went from a 61-win team to a 19-win team was because LeBron left. HERP DERP. Yep. M'kay, buddy.

Stick to Utah, and if you want to explore your mancrush for LeBron, can you do it on another thread? I don't want you to derail this one any further.

1. OMG you pulled the Mike Brown coach of the year argument? That guy sucks he can't even run an offensive scheme, he made Kyrie way worse than he was with Scott and he couldn't get anything going with the Lakers with Kobe, Dwight, Nash, Gasol and Artest! He's considered by many the worse coach in the league
2. I accept he tried to change that. I'd love to see Cleveland play slow and creating on the half court trough Parker, Mo and Moon
3. Mo Williams played until mid season and the Cavs were on track to the worse record in the league. They actually had a better record after he left!
4. I'll give you that.
5. Delonte West was a bench player and had a bunch of problems in the 2010 season! Missed 20 games that season and he was so good that two years later (and he was not even 30!) he retired from the NBA!
6. They had Mo Williams. They had Daniel Gibson. Wrong point.
6. 6 again? Ok. Shaq left. He also missed almost half the season in 2010 and Cleveland didn't stop winning.
7. Big Z. That's the difference! He was young and producing great for Cleveland.
8. Hickson produced a ton more with LeBron on the team. He dropped 8% on his ts%, and 10% in his FG. And the amount of points he had was not great. Btw how is his career turning out? I'm glad to see all those all-star presences, Cleveland had such a great cast!
9. When Jamison played Cleveland's record was still awful.
10. I thought you said they had no PGs from the previous year? Plus Gibson started 15 games. So he was not a starter. Learn your basketball history pal.
11. So what?
12. Moon still played 40 games. How was Cleveland's record on those 40 games? Is he the one that made LeBron's cast great?
13. So what?
14. So what?
15. So what again? If anything they're trying new solutions because the old roster sucked for the 1st half of the season.
16. So what? Most teams have 8 guys in the main rotations. With a few trades happening after the mid season it's normal.
17. At first Cleveland was trying to win to prove a point. They just realized they sucked and after the middle of the season they started tanking (there was no need for it, they could try to win their team was awful).

Congratulations man. You're a great history revisionist.

Btw when LeBron went back to Cleveland 4 guys in the starting lineup for Cleveland played the year before, and it was in December (Hickson, Varejao, Mo Williams and Parker, only the SF was different for obvious reasons). Still LeBron outscored the entire Cleveland team in the 3rd by himself. But I'm sure you'll have some excuse for that too.

Purch wrote:

COM_GTFO wrote:

Gus Fring wrote:Something was missing from Garnett's game.

Yeah. Help.

Lol. Anything KG fails at before 2008 is a result of his teammates...Anything KG fails at from 2009 onward is because he's past his prime.

So basically by KG homer logic he's immune to nearly all criticism, except in 2008 Lol if only the greats like D-rob had that of level of immunity for the seasons they underachieved and led sub par defenses

To be fair, if we're talking immunity, Tim Duncan literally cannot be touched in that regard. He's never caught any flak for anything, ever. It's amazing, really.

COM_GTFO wrote:

youngcrev wrote:Ever think that his stats might be a little juiced by playing with weaker teammates? It's an argument we often see against players on bad teams. Prime KG vs Duncan is kinda like prime Kobe vs TMac. One guy is ranked significantly higher all time, yet at their best there wasn't much separation. I still lean Duncan's way. I think he was the better go-to scorer in a tough spot and was a better defensive anchor, which I value more than KG's superior individual defense.

The only KG stat I think that is slightly blown out of proportion as a result of playing on a trash team is the assists.

On a better team, he wouldn't have been asked to handle the ball as much, so he'd probably be more of a 3-4 APG guy instead of a 5-6 APG guy. But he was good enough and dominant enough that his other numbers would probably be similar regardles of where he went.

I'd think his boards would dip as well

Duncan is the luckiest superstar in the NBA history. If he was drafted by Wolves and KG by Spurs, everyone would think that KG is the better player. Duncan's teams had Pop, DRob, Parker, Manu, Bowen and a ton of very good role players during all these 15 years. KG's teammates were awful till Boston. Even with them he was so close to something incredible in 04.

mihail_petkov wrote:Duncan is the luckiest superstar in the NBA history. If he was drafted by Wolves and KG by Spurs, everyone would think that KG is the better player. Duncan's teams had Pop, DRob, Parker, Manu, Bowen and a ton of very good role players during all these 15 years. KG's teammates were awful till Boston. Even with them he was so close to something incredible in 04.

Im not sure if this is a serious post.

Tim Duncan isn't lucky that he was drafted by San Antonio.

San Antonio is lucky that they had the first pick and could draft Tim Duncan.

The ardent Kevin Garnett fan is the most peculiar creature I have ever encountered in my life.

You young kids need to read "The Emperor Has No Clothes"

The story pertains greatly to the myth of Kevin Garnett.

And the KG mythologist continue to overrate KG a lot. What's new?

Can't wait for the next generation to put him above the likes of Magic, Bird, Russel, Wilt, Kareem and Jordan.

mihail_petkov wrote:Duncan is the luckiest superstar in the NBA history. If he was drafted by Wolves and KG by Spurs, everyone would think that KG is the better player. Duncan's teams had Pop, DRob, Parker, Manu, Bowen and a ton of very good role players during all these 15 years. KG's teammates were awful till Boston. Even with them he was so close to something incredible in 04.

Q.E.D

Pg81 wrote:And the KG mythologist continue to overrate KG a lot. What's new?

Can't wait for the next generation to put him above the likes of Magic, Bird, Russel, Wilt, Kareem and Jordan.

mihail_petkov wrote:Duncan is the luckiest superstar in the NBA history. If he was drafted by Wolves and KG by Spurs, everyone would think that KG is the better player. Duncan's teams had Pop, DRob, Parker, Manu, Bowen and a ton of very good role players during all these 15 years. KG's teammates were awful till Boston. Even with them he was so close to something incredible in 04.

Q.E.D

People in the project were voting him fourth behind only Russell, Jordan and Kareem.

Talk about understatement of the year, the next generation is not going to rank him stupidly high, it's already begun.

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The moment I saw this thread I knew it would not end well, and I was right.

You're talking about ranking one of the most painfully limited superstars in NBA history over a guy who has had arguably the perfect career.

Garnett was a much less effective offensive player than the numbers suggest. His defense is also massively overrated. The 'linebacker' crap being thrown around is an excuse for his tendency to show on pick and rolls way too much and try and guard perimeter players, letting his team get destroyed in the paint.

Essentially he was a guy who spent too much time taking the most inefficient shot in basketball, and allowing his opponents to GET the most efficient shots in basketball.

I have TD at 6 and KG at 17. No comparison for me. None at all,l.

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