Draymond Green discussion...and "californiadude" blackmail.

[ChuckDurn]

Here's a team which might be willing to deal:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/charl ... ht-fix-it/

Wonder if there's anything that might be of interest. Supposedly they're in areas where we have the most depth. The only two guys I'd consider trading at this point are Lee and possibly Iggy. Not trading Dray and probably not Barnes either.

People might think it's crazy, but I might consider a deal of the following:
Lee + Kuzmic + GS 2015 #1 (unprotected - it has to be)
for
Zeller + Henderson + CHA 2015 #1 (top-8 protected, top-10 protected in 2016, unprotected in 2017)

Zeller is a very good prospect, I'd feel much, much better about our center position with him on the team. With Zeller on-board, Speights probably could become the full-time back-up PF, where this year he has had to fill in at center most of the time, which he isn't well-suited for despite his early success this year.
Henderson would be a good upgrade at back-up SG over Barbosa, who has started okay but doesn't do well on the defensive end (where Henderson is pretty good).
The "prizes" in this might be moving up significantly in the draft, as well as the financial savings which should definitely help to retain Green without going into the tax. Henderson has a player option next year - even if he does come back, the savings we would have would be at least $4-5M (depending on whether we go the draft pick next year) by moving Lee. And if he doesn't come back, the savings would be in the $10M range, so retaining Green would be no problem at all.

To the specific premise that started the thread - no way do I consider trading Green, unless it's part of a deal where a certified All-Star is coming back to us. I never say never, but it would take a whale of a deal for me to consider moving Green at this point.

[azwfan]

We don't need elite anything. The only need i can see is a 3&D backup SG (since Rush hasn't filled the bill yet). Maybe a 3rd PG so we can rest Livingston in blowouts? A 4th center so we don't have to watch Kuzmic play in garbage time? We really don't need a lot.

Would love to get Ray Allen to play that role, though Barbosa's amusing leak outs would be missed. Nedo was supposed to play that 3rd pg role but he didn't want it. It's not really Kuzmic as much as it is playing Kuzmic and Ezeli together.

Yeah, my main point with the 3rd pg and 4th C is those aren't really needs. They're more like, if we have this we can hold onto our 30 pt leads instead of mere 20 pt victories.

I'd like Ray Allen also. I've been all over that since we released Nedovic. My ideal scenario has Rush getting back to the Rush of 3 yrs ago and... and man that is one hell of a basketball team. I've only been on the Ray Allen parade cause i haven't seen that Rush yet.

[azwfan]

Here's a team which might be willing to deal:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/charl ... ht-fix-it/

Wonder if there's anything that might be of interest. Supposedly they're in areas where we have the most depth. The only two guys I'd consider trading at this point are Lee and possibly Iggy. Not trading Dray and probably not Barnes either.

People might think it's crazy, but I might consider a deal of the following:
Lee + Kuzmic + GS 2015 #1 (unprotected - it has to be)
for
Zeller + Henderson + CHA 2015 #1 (top-8 protected, top-10 protected in 2016, unprotected in 2017)

Zeller is a very good prospect, I'd feel much, much better about our center position with him on the team. With Zeller on-board, Speights probably could become the full-time back-up PF, where this year he has had to fill in at center most of the time, which he isn't well-suited for despite his early success this year.
Henderson would be a good upgrade at back-up SG over Barbosa, who has started okay but doesn't do well on the defensive end (where Henderson is pretty good).
The "prizes" in this might be moving up significantly in the draft, as well as the financial savings which should definitely help to retain Green without going into the tax. Henderson has a player option next year - even if he does come back, the savings we would have would be at least $4-5M (depending on whether we go the draft pick next year) by moving Lee. And if he doesn't come back, the savings would be in the $10M range, so retaining Green would be no problem at all.

To the specific premise that started the thread - no way do I consider trading Green, unless it's part of a deal where a certified All-Star is coming back to us. I never say never, but it would take a whale of a deal for me to consider moving Green at this point.

Why do you want to get worse in a year we are trying to win the championship?

[ChuckDurn]

Celtics fan here who just watched Sunday's game against Detroit. Please do not trade Green or anyone on your roster, unless a major injury happens. You guys are so much fun to watch. It's a real treat.

I posted this on our "Around the NBA" thread. Wanted to see what you guys think. Am I off-base at all here?

"The Warriors are going to be a problem for a lot of people. Everyone's been talking about how impressive they are, so I FINALLY got my first look at them against Detroit on Sunday. Wow. Have them play the Spurs right now for the West title. It would be incredible to watch.

I think the most important part of the Warriors is personnel. They can play almost any style, any line-up, and be successful doing it. They can go three guards with Steph-Blur-Klay-Livingston, they can go wing-heavy with Klay-Iggy-Green-Barnes, they can go big with Bogut-Lee-Speights - what a luxury. The only problem they really face is when Barnes plays the 4. Easily overpowered by 4's in the NBA, but he gives them the speed, the ball movement, and floor-spacing on offense that Kerr wants so it's a wash. Warriors want to play up-tempo. Barnes allows them to do that.

And their offense is a thing of beauty. Players don't stop moving, the ball never stops moving, everyone knows where to cut, when to cut, how to cut, and they get a lot of open shots because of it. Defenses know you can't give guys like Klay and Steph any space, so the end result is a lot of good looks for Barnes (50% FG/40% 3FG), Green (46% F/38% 3FG), and even Mo Speights (57% FG).

I love this team (forgot to mention they're 8th in points allowed). They play basketball the way it's supposed to be played. As long as Bogut is healthy they're on the short list of teams that can win it all and stay on top for a while. You really have to 'muddy' the game up to really beat them. I think the only team that could do that for a 7-game series is Memphis, which would also be amazing to watch."

Thanks for the kind words

Too bad you've only caught our Sunday game against Detroit. I must be getting spoiled because I didn't even think we played well to be honest. We can usually pull out double digit victories without playing well but our last two victories have been kind of ugly compared to the rest of the win streak. We're definitely capable of playing better but an early start and an end of a 5 game road trip can do that.

I agree with both posts.

The Warriors are playing a beautiful brand of basketball, and have amazing versatility in their line-up.

And they played like horse dung for a lot of yesterday's game, despite winning pretty easily.

[ChuckDurn]

Why do you want to get worse in a year we are trying to win the championship?

Good question and point.

I'm not 100% sure it would make us worse - we honestly don't know what's going to happen when Lee comes back, whether that "disrupts" things. I'm as big an advocate as any that Lee is a great fit in the offensive scheme we have going, and I don't think his defense is as bad as it's made out. But I don't know for sure that all the pieces will work with Lee back, similar to how Cleveland has struggled out of the gate.

I do think that Zeller and Henderson would be upgrades over the current back-ups at C (with Speights moving back to PF) and SG, so I don't think we're getting worse there.

We "probably" get worse this year, but I think we'd set ourselves up well for the future. Is that risk worth it? I don't know, probably not (as you pointed out).

And believe me, I'm not saying the idea I came up with is a slam dunk..... just that it might be something I'd consider.

[ILOVEIT]

My question would be...who can you get THAT WOULD MAKE US BETTER NOW?

I don't see anyone in the league trading a guy who would upgrade us....

The ONLY thing I can see is trading for a high first round pick so we can continue to build over time....aquire and build talent.

But that suggests we have duplicate talent we can afford to trade away. I say keep them all and make the run for the championship.

[azwfan]

Here's a team which might be willing to deal:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/charl ... ht-fix-it/

Wonder if there's anything that might be of interest. Supposedly they're in areas where we have the most depth. The only two guys I'd consider trading at this point are Lee and possibly Iggy. Not trading Dray and probably not Barnes either.

Charlotte and GSW do not make good trading partners.
1) Both of our teams primary need right now is outside shooting. We need 1 more, they need... well more than 1.
2) We are freaking rolling right now and have no reason to make any change. Charlotte is tailspinning and want to stop it.

Guys on Charlotte i have interest in:
Brian Roberts (looks like a good shooter)
Cody Zeller (young big talent)
B***h smack Biyombo (young big)
Henderson (if i don't have to give anything up)

Guys on GSW i wouldn't mind trading:
Barbosa, Rush, Ezeli, Kuzmic, Holiday

I'm not trading ANY of our top 9 guys unless there is an injury (including Lee never coming back) or we start losing a bunch of games.

[azwfan]

Why do you want to get worse in a year we are trying to win the championship?

Good question and point.

I'm not 100% sure it would make us worse - we honestly don't know what's going to happen when Lee comes back, whether that "disrupts" things. I'm as big an advocate as any that Lee is a great fit in the offensive scheme we have going, and I don't think his defense is as bad as it's made out. But I don't know for sure that all the pieces will work with Lee back, similar to how Cleveland has struggled out of the gate.

I do think that Zeller and Henderson would be upgrades over the current back-ups at C (with Speights moving back to PF) and SG, so I don't think we're getting worse there.

We "probably" get worse this year, but I think we'd set ourselves up well for the future. Is that risk worth it? I don't know, probably not (as you pointed out).

And believe me, I'm not saying the idea I came up with is a slam dunk..... just that it might be something I'd consider.

If Zeller is our backup C i think that makes us worse. He has some talent, but he's not playing better than Speights or even close. Zeller is also not better than Lee. It is possible that Lee may come in and stink, but given his skill set and the new offense, i'm pretty confident he's going to be much more effective than he was last year, which is worlds more effective than Zeller. Any interest I have in Zeller is about the future... not this year.

Barbosa vs. Henderson. Henderson is a solid player, and i agree that Henderson is an upgrade over Barbosa. Barbosa's position is playing about 20 minutes a night... with a lot of those minutes being garbage time. If we can get Henderson by dealing any combination of HOliday, Rush, Barbosa, Kuzmic (i don't think we can because of salaries), then i'm all for it.

[turk3d]

Here's a team which might be willing to deal:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/charl ... ht-fix-it/

Wonder if there's anything that might be of interest. Supposedly they're in areas where we have the most depth. The only two guys I'd consider trading at this point are Lee and possibly Iggy. Not trading Dray and probably not Barnes either.

People might think it's crazy, but I might consider a deal of the following:
Lee + Kuzmic + GS 2015 #1 (unprotected - it has to be)
for
Zeller + Henderson + CHA 2015 #1 (top-8 protected, top-10 protected in 2016, unprotected in 2017)

Zeller is a very good prospect, I'd feel much, much better about our center position with him on the team. With Zeller on-board, Speights probably could become the full-time back-up PF, where this year he has had to fill in at center most of the time, which he isn't well-suited for despite his early success this year.
Henderson would be a good upgrade at back-up SG over Barbosa, who has started okay but doesn't do well on the defensive end (where Henderson is pretty good).
The "prizes" in this might be moving up significantly in the draft, as well as the financial savings which should definitely help to retain Green without going into the tax. Henderson has a player option next year - even if he does come back, the savings we would have would be at least $4-5M (depending on whether we go the draft pick next year) by moving Lee. And if he doesn't come back, the savings would be in the $10M range, so retaining Green would be no problem at all.

To the specific premise that started the thread - no way do I consider trading Green, unless it's part of a deal where a certified All-Star is coming back to us. I never say never, but it would take a whale of a deal for me to consider moving Green at this point.

I like your suggestions Chuck. And I don't consider trading Green unless it's really something special coming back in return.

[californiadude]

Knees seem fine to me. Don't believe he's missed a game yet due to injury since he's been here. And although he may not be the "best" stretch 4 around, he might be the best defensive so combined he's not too far behind any imo. And I will say this to you dude, it looks like you were right about Butler, he's a very good player which I didn't realize. Probably too late for him now, I'm sure Bulls realize what they have. So props to you for calling that one, this one, not so good imo. It would be crazy to move Dray at this point.

Thanks Turk for the credit. I'm wrong/delusional a lot so it's nice on the very rare occasions I'm vindicated.

[californiadude]

Here's a team which might be willing to deal:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/charl ... ht-fix-it/

Wonder if there's anything that might be of interest. Supposedly they're in areas where we have the most depth. The only two guys I'd consider trading at this point are Lee and possibly Iggy. Not trading Dray and probably not Barnes either.

People might think it's crazy, but I might consider a deal of the following:
Lee + Kuzmic + GS 2015 #1 (unprotected - it has to be)
for
Zeller + Henderson + CHA 2015 #1 (top-8 protected, top-10 protected in 2016, unprotected in 2017)

Zeller is a very good prospect, I'd feel much, much better about our center position with him on the team. With Zeller on-board, Speights probably could become the full-time back-up PF, where this year he has had to fill in at center most of the time, which he isn't well-suited for despite his early success this year.
Henderson would be a good upgrade at back-up SG over Barbosa, who has started okay but doesn't do well on the defensive end (where Henderson is pretty good).
The "prizes" in this might be moving up significantly in the draft, as well as the financial savings which should definitely help to retain Green without going into the tax. Henderson has a player option next year - even if he does come back, the savings we would have would be at least $4-5M (depending on whether we go the draft pick next year) by moving Lee. And if he doesn't come back, the savings would be in the $10M range, so retaining Green would be no problem at all.

To the specific premise that started the thread - no way do I consider trading Green, unless it's part of a deal where a certified All-Star is coming back to us. I never say never, but it would take a whale of a deal for me to consider moving Green at this point.

In regards to your input on Green. This was really my original thought. And as said earlier only way I personally trade Green is for a all star that significantly improves our roster. As to the trade you mentioned...I'd most likely do it although I would rather have Bismack or MKG. One Charlotte trade possibility...Is Iggy plus filler for MKG, one of the CHA project big trio (Zeller, Bismack or Vonleh), Hairston and maybe even the pick swap you mentioned. Although that goes against the whole "keep our core together" scenario.

[californiadude]

My question would be...who can you get THAT WOULD MAKE US BETTER NOW?

I don't see anyone in the league trading a guy who would upgrade us....

The ONLY thing I can see is trading for a high first round pick so we can continue to build over time....aquire and build talent.

But that suggests we have duplicate talent we can afford to trade away. I say keep them all and make the run for the championship.

I'm with you on that. My thought with Green is. Can he be a central piece that brings back a top 20 player?

[azwfan]

My question would be...who can you get THAT WOULD MAKE US BETTER NOW?

I don't see anyone in the league trading a guy who would upgrade us....

The ONLY thing I can see is trading for a high first round pick so we can continue to build over time....aquire and build talent.

But that suggests we have duplicate talent we can afford to trade away. I say keep them all and make the run for the championship.

I'm with you on that. My thought with Green is. Can he be a central piece that brings back a top 20 player?

I haven't sat down and counted out the top 20 players... but i can confidently say, "no" in response to that question. Draymond Green is playing well, but he does not have that value IMO.

[californiadude]

My question would be...who can you get THAT WOULD MAKE US BETTER NOW?

I don't see anyone in the league trading a guy who would upgrade us....

The ONLY thing I can see is trading for a high first round pick so we can continue to build over time....aquire and build talent.

But that suggests we have duplicate talent we can afford to trade away. I say keep them all and make the run for the championship.

I'm with you on that. My thought with Green is. Can he be a central piece that brings back a top 20 player?

I haven't sat down and counted out the top 20 players... but i can confidently say, "no" in response to that question. Draymond Green is playing well, but he does not have that value IMO.

maybe top 20 was a bit of a reach. But if we can cash in a quarter (dray) and a dime (Iggy) for a 50 cent piece (horford? although that's not a great example). We should at least think about it right? Am I comepletely off base to think green has that kind of value?

[azwfan]

Here's a team which might be willing to deal:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/charl ... ht-fix-it/

Wonder if there's anything that might be of interest. Supposedly they're in areas where we have the most depth. The only two guys I'd consider trading at this point are Lee and possibly Iggy. Not trading Dray and probably not Barnes either.

People might think it's crazy, but I might consider a deal of the following:
Lee + Kuzmic + GS 2015 #1 (unprotected - it has to be)
for
Zeller + Henderson + CHA 2015 #1 (top-8 protected, top-10 protected in 2016, unprotected in 2017)

Zeller is a very good prospect, I'd feel much, much better about our center position with him on the team. With Zeller on-board, Speights probably could become the full-time back-up PF, where this year he has had to fill in at center most of the time, which he isn't well-suited for despite his early success this year.
Henderson would be a good upgrade at back-up SG over Barbosa, who has started okay but doesn't do well on the defensive end (where Henderson is pretty good).
The "prizes" in this might be moving up significantly in the draft, as well as the financial savings which should definitely help to retain Green without going into the tax. Henderson has a player option next year - even if he does come back, the savings we would have would be at least $4-5M (depending on whether we go the draft pick next year) by moving Lee. And if he doesn't come back, the savings would be in the $10M range, so retaining Green would be no problem at all.

To the specific premise that started the thread - no way do I consider trading Green, unless it's part of a deal where a certified All-Star is coming back to us. I never say never, but it would take a whale of a deal for me to consider moving Green at this point.

In regards to your input on Green. This was really my original thought. And as said earlier only way I personally trade Green is for a all star that significantly improves our roster. As to the trade you mentioned...I'd most likely do it although I would rather have Bismack or MKG. One Charlotte trade possibility...Is Iggy plus filler for MKG, one of the CHA project big trio (Zeller, Bismack or Vonleh), Hairston and maybe even the pick swap you mentioned. Although that goes against the whole "keep our core together" scenario.

I don't see why CHA would trade all of that for Iguodala... and i'm not convinced all of that makes us better... considering the only one of those pieces who would get any meaningful playing time would be MKG.

I think in trades with CHA we should be looking at Brian Roberts, Gerald Henderson type of acquisitions... and even with Henderson i think his contract makes him a tough option to acquire.

There's no reason to make a trade trading any of your rotation players when you are 14-2.

[ILOVEIT]

btw....regarding Green not being able to sustain his recent play? Why not?

I think he will continue to get better. His 3 point shot has been good but his actual overall play is a little down in my opinion. He is making some mental mistakes lately...turnovers....

Anyway...I think he will continue to be a big game player...tenacious on defense and the boards...reliable on three point SET shooting.

That's more valuable than MKG IMO...I woudn't trade Green straight up for a guy with a permantently hitchy jump shot and who relies on his atheltic ability and is ALREADY breaking down

[californiadude]

People might think it's crazy, but I might consider a deal of the following:
Lee + Kuzmic + GS 2015 #1 (unprotected - it has to be)
for
Zeller + Henderson + CHA 2015 #1 (top-8 protected, top-10 protected in 2016, unprotected in 2017)

Zeller is a very good prospect, I'd feel much, much better about our center position with him on the team. With Zeller on-board, Speights probably could become the full-time back-up PF, where this year he has had to fill in at center most of the time, which he isn't well-suited for despite his early success this year.
Henderson would be a good upgrade at back-up SG over Barbosa, who has started okay but doesn't do well on the defensive end (where Henderson is pretty good).
The "prizes" in this might be moving up significantly in the draft, as well as the financial savings which should definitely help to retain Green without going into the tax. Henderson has a player option next year - even if he does come back, the savings we would have would be at least $4-5M (depending on whether we go the draft pick next year) by moving Lee. And if he doesn't come back, the savings would be in the $10M range, so retaining Green would be no problem at all.

To the specific premise that started the thread - no way do I consider trading Green, unless it's part of a deal where a certified All-Star is coming back to us. I never say never, but it would take a whale of a deal for me to consider moving Green at this point.

In regards to your input on Green. This was really my original thought. And as said earlier only way I personally trade Green is for a all star that significantly improves our roster. As to the trade you mentioned...I'd most likely do it although I would rather have Bismack or MKG. One Charlotte trade possibility...Is Iggy plus filler for MKG, one of the CHA project big trio (Zeller, Bismack or Vonleh), Hairston and maybe even the pick swap you mentioned. Although that goes against the whole "keep our core together" scenario.

I don't see why CHA would trade all of that for Iguodala... and i'm not convinced all of that makes us better... considering the only one of those pieces who would get any meaningful playing time would be MKG.

I think in trades with CHA we should be looking at Brian Roberts, Gerald Henderson type of acquisitions... and even with Henderson i think his contract makes him a tough option to acquire.

There's no reason to make a trade trading any of your rotation players when you are 14-2.

Those are the 4 assets I'd be interested in, I also doubt it CHA would give up all of that but if their desperate a MKG/Bismack/pick swap deal might be an option. That does mess with our current rotations. And It doesn't make us better but I don't think it makes us worse, add that to the fact that it saves money and gives us three potential prospects I think it'd be a decent trade for us.

[Left*My*Heart]

Lee is probably the only major piece the front office would consider trading, but they aren't giving him away. I would bet they are very excited to see Lee coming off the bench and making the team hard to matchup with.

I don't see the front officer trading their first rounder until the draft if they would part with it. It's a cheap way to add talent if they do their homework.

[Twinkie defense]

I don't see how anyone would talk about selling high on Speights when he makes so little but is having huge impact?

If we had a glaring area of need, then sure, but we don't....we are getting the high value out of the relatively low dollar hit. It's what you hope for in your role players.

That's what makes him valuable! Big man, veteran, under contract, impact player at small cost.

Whoever we traded Draymond for would be worse - I say "role player" in quotes because he is super important to this team. Last season lineups with Draymond were our best lineups, and this year Draymond - and the team - is even better. But the market really undervalues defense, toughness, heart, versatility, etc. Guys who get paid are guys who put the ball in the hoop, even if that's ALL they do.

What Warriors should be doing is acquiring inexpensive chuckers just to trade for heady "role players!"

[Twinkie defense]

Like this team or not I think we're going to need to make a trade to avoid the tax. And in my opinion there are 3 obvious guys. Barnes, Lee and Iggy. Here's my logic on why instead of trading those we should at the very least put out some feelers on Draymond this coming offseason.

IDK if the Warriors could avoid the tax next season if that was their primary goal, they're too far up in it. It would have to be a tear down. And it would be really stupid to go out of your way to avoid the tax when it would just a one year tax anyway - very short-sighted. Especially for a team who says their goal is to win a Championship, and that they are willing taxpayers.