Sam Pressti and Pat Riley think Brown is the next Vince Carter

[Smog]

By the way, is the world now going to end, given that A. Sherrod Blakely correctly called this pick way before draft day? That was the biggest surprise of the whole draft for me.

[lon3lytoaster]

I'm going to be positive about this pick. It's really worth nothing to evaluate a player's numbers, especially basic numbers without putting into context with his team. Cal didn't even crack the top 120 in the nation for pace/possessions a game. For a player who truly excels in the open court that is not a recipe for success. Had Jaylen's earned themselves some extra possessions per game it's not unreasonable to think he'd have averaged 16-17 PPG as a freshman. That, while a basic stat, would probably catapult a lot of people's opinion of him.

The Celtics, I'd like to point out were third in the league in pace this past season. While this isn't the defining barometer of success, as Cleveland was near the bottom in the category, it certainly lends itself to Brown's strengths as a player.

I think it's important we don't forget fit. Cal, as a team was not a good fit for Jaylen despite their academics. In addition to being a slow team they also lacked shooters.

Boston is a team that is better suited through their play style to maximize Brown. I'm still not sold on the pick and I'm still bitterly disappointed more than anything else that there wasn't a trade but I'm happy to give him a chance.

[lon3lytoaster]

By the way, is the world now going to end, given that A. Sherrod Blakely correctly called this pick way before draft day? That was the biggest surprise of the whole draft for me.

He was parroting everyone else. The only other dude was Kris Dunn and he didn't make sense for us. Don't worry, he still lacks as much credibility as he ever has.

[BannersOnly]

I'm going to be positive about this pick. It's really worth nothing to evaluate a player's numbers, especially basic numbers without putting into context with his team. Cal didn't even crack the top 120 in the nation for pace/possessions a game. For a player who truly excels in the open court that is not a recipe for success. Had Jaylen's earned themselves some extra possessions per game it's not unreasonable to think he'd have averaged 16-17 PPG as a freshman. That, while a basic stat, would probably catapult a lot of people's opinion of him.

The Celtics, I'd like to point out were third in the league in pace this past season. While this isn't the defining barometer of success, as Cleveland was near the bottom in the category, it certainly lends itself to Brown's strengths as a player.

I think it's important we don't forget fit. Cal, as a team was not a good fit for Jaylen despite their academics. In addition to being a slow team they also lacked shooters.

Boston is a team that is better suited through their play style to maximize Brown. I'm still not sold on the pick and I'm still bitterly disappointed more than anything else that there wasn't a trade but I'm happy to give him a chance.

Going from Cuonzo Martin to Brad Stevens is like going from a 95 Honda with 250k miles on it to a brand new S Class Benz. Coaches get paid a ton of money because they are suppossed to be able to get the best out of their players. That's what guys like Belichick, Popovich, Riley, Jackson, Coach K and all the greats do. If Stevens is as good as I think he is than I'm anxious to see what he can do with a raw talent like Brown over the next 5 years.

[lon3lytoaster]

I'm going to be positive about this pick. It's really worth nothing to evaluate a player's numbers, especially basic numbers without putting into context with his team. Cal didn't even crack the top 120 in the nation for pace/possessions a game. For a player who truly excels in the open court that is not a recipe for success. Had Jaylen's earned themselves some extra possessions per game it's not unreasonable to think he'd have averaged 16-17 PPG as a freshman. That, while a basic stat, would probably catapult a lot of people's opinion of him.

The Celtics, I'd like to point out were third in the league in pace this past season. While this isn't the defining barometer of success, as Cleveland was near the bottom in the category, it certainly lends itself to Brown's strengths as a player.

I think it's important we don't forget fit. Cal, as a team was not a good fit for Jaylen despite their academics. In addition to being a slow team they also lacked shooters.

Boston is a team that is better suited through their play style to maximize Brown. I'm still not sold on the pick and I'm still bitterly disappointed more than anything else that there wasn't a trade but I'm happy to give him a chance.

Going from Cuonzo Martin to Brad Stevens is like going from a 95 Honda with 250k miles on it to a brand new S Class Benz. Coaches get paid a ton of money because they are suppossed to be able to get the best out of their players. That's what guys like Belichick, Popovich, Riley, Jackson, Coach K and all the greats do. If Stevens is as good as I think he is than I'm anxious to see what he can do with a raw talent like Brown over the next 5 years.

He still has some mistakes to learn from but anyone who can get anything meaningful out of Jordan Crawford has my confidence.

[GreenFor3]

And, while I'm at it, why is Jaylen Brown going to be a "bust" according to the anti-Brown camp because he only shot 29% from 3pt range. Dwayne fn Wade is a fn career 28.4 percent 3pt shooter yet he was always one of the best "scorers" in the league and that's because the guy had the attitude, body and athleticsm to make things fn happen without being Larry fn Bird from downtown. For cris sakes, the guy's best 3pt shooting year in his entire career was 2008-2009 when he shot 31.7 percent. And Wade is a fn shooting guard and not a small forward. GTFOH with this nonsense that Brown will suck because he can't shoot. He attacks the fn rim and has the right attitude and fn body to make things happen. I'm not saying he's Dwayne Wade, but I'm simply pointing out that one of this generation's best players and a 3x NBA Champion has been one of the best scorer's in this league without an elite jumpshot.

Not to mention Jimmy Butler who he would've been traded for shoot 31% from 3 last year and 32% for his career, he's not a sharpshooter either.

[BannersOnly]

And, while I'm at it, why is Jaylen Brown going to be a "bust" according to the anti-Brown camp because he only shot 29% from 3pt range. Dwayne fn Wade is a fn career 28.4 percent 3pt shooter yet he was always one of the best "scorers" in the league and that's because the guy had the attitude, body and athleticsm to make things fn happen without being Larry fn Bird from downtown. For cris sakes, the guy's best 3pt shooting year in his entire career was 2008-2009 when he shot 31.7 percent. And Wade is a fn shooting guard and not a small forward. GTFOH with this nonsense that Brown will suck because he can't shoot. He attacks the fn rim and has the right attitude and fn body to make things happen. I'm not saying he's Dwayne Wade, but I'm simply pointing out that one of this generation's best players and a 3x NBA Champion has been one of the best scorer's in this league without an elite jumpshot.

Not to mention Jimmy Butler who he would've been traded for shoot 31% from 3 last year and 32% for his career, he's not a sharpshooter either.

LOL, good point. Nice catch. I bet a lot of the anti-Brown guys who are saying he can't shoot are pro-Butler guys who are dissapointed we didn't trade for him. Talking out of both sides of their mouth.

[GuyClinch]

If college stats were so indicative of NBA performance the draft would simply match their college PERs and such. This almost never happens - GMs aren't perfect but they know better then that..

It Buddy Heild would gone #1. And everyone would stay in school four years.. Brown hate has nothing to do with Butler though - its all bout Bender..

[GreenFor3]

If college stats were so indicative of NBA performance the draft would simply match their college PERs and such. This almost never happens - GMs aren't perfect but they know better then that..

It Buddy Heild would gone #1. And everyone would stay in school four years.. Brown hate has nothing to do with Butler though - its all bout Bender..

Brown hate absolutely has something to do with Butler. The rumors really got people's hopes up and once it fell through people were going to hate whoever we drafted

[pasfru]

Now that we've seen the guy play a few games, I'm starting to like these comparisons more and more

[DelMonte West]

I think Brown has a lower ceiling offensively and a higher ceiling defensively (he at least looks stronger than Vince ever did). Needs to become more reliable from the line.

[Slartibartfast]

I think Brown has a lower ceiling offensively and a higher ceiling defensively (he at least looks stronger than Vince ever did). Needs to become more reliable from the line.

People just like to compare dynamic wing athletes to Vince Carter.

Vince, even though he also had issues with the long ball, was much more of a guard. Did a lot off the dribble. Played pick and roll. Took a lot of jumpers.

Brown is most comfortable 15 feet and in, or on quick rip and goes from the perimeter. I think his ceiling is more of a Melo type player than the usual wing suspects.

Jaylen smaller and faster than Melo, but I think their physical strengths are similar. Both hyper aggressive. Both with the ability to finish with either hand among the trees. Both with powerful upper bodies to absorb contact and roll off people in the mid-post. And most importantly, both with dynamic first steps.

Melo was more polished early with that deadly mid-range J, which allowed him to serve as a featured option even without a 3-ball or pick and roll skills. He'd just face you up and jab step. If you didn't bite, he'd blow by you to the rim. If you did he had clearance for his 18 footer.

The 3-ball is important for Jaylen's ability to contribute off the ball, but it's that mid-range game that will likely be the first stop in his ability to serve as a featured offensive weapon.

[pasfru]

I think Brown has a lower ceiling offensively and a higher ceiling defensively (he at least looks stronger than Vince ever did). Needs to become more reliable from the line.

People just like to compare dynamic wing athletes to Vince Carter.

Vince, even though he also had issues with the long ball, was much more of a guard. Did a lot off the dribble. Played pick and roll. Took a lot of jumpers.

Brown is most comfortable 15 feet and in, or on quick rip and goes from the perimeter. I think his ceiling is more of a Melo type player than the usual wing suspects.

Jaylen smaller and faster than Melo, but I think their physical strengths are similar. Both hyper aggressive. Both with the ability to finish with either hand among the trees. Both with powerful upper bodies to absorb contact and roll off people in the mid-post. And most importantly, both with dynamic first steps.

Melo was more polished early with that deadly mid-range J, which allowed him to serve as a featured option even without a 3-ball or pick and roll skills. He'd just face you up and jab step. If you didn't bite, he'd blow by you to the rim. If you did he had clearance for his 18 footer.

The 3-ball is important for Jaylen's ability to contribute off the ball, but it's that mid-range game that will likely be the first stop in his ability to serve as a featured offensive weapon.

With that slick turnaround jumper Jaylen's been showing off in these first couple games, I think he's already making himself out to be a bit of a threat from mid-range. I think he's going to prove himself to be a decent shooter by the end of the year matter of fact, Cal was not the place for him to show that off.

Give me a Melo with the mindset and work ethic of a Jaylen Brown any minute, any hour, any day of the week.

[Gomes3PC]

I still like Richard Jefferson as a comp for Brown. A skilled version of Crash Wallace, said another way.

[Fidel Sarcasmo]

I am just blown away by all these comparisons to Hall of famers or future ones. I want to see it, but I'm not seeing a hall of famer. Why? It's too soon to start speculating in my book. Like last year, I would be comfortable speculating that Karl Anthony Towns would project to be a hall of famer, it's rare I do that for such a young player. Obviously health has to be a factor. No way in hell Am I ready to go in this early on him comparing him to Tmac, Kobe, Carter, whoever. The kid needs to live and have room to breath to become his own player. When it's all said and done, I think he'll be a good player but I just dont have my finger on where he is in the future spectrum yet.

[Gomes3PC]

I don't really see Crash and R-Jeff as HOFers, but nice, solid guys who in their prime could potentially be the 3rd guy for a title team. That's how I see Jaylen at this point.

[chrisab123]

I predict that Simmons will be a bust (GREG ODEN) and Ingram will be successful like Durant.

Please discuss

Simmons could be the next Michael Beasley or Derrick Coleman, left handed PF players who became busts.

Burger King claimed Colemans career. Beasley just didn't have it.

Brown has looked solid so far but I would certainly deal him in a trade for the right star.

[jrob23]

Simmons is a total bust as #1 pick/franchise guy - he's a non-scoring non-defense triple double stats guy who will have **** relationships with teammates.

PF Rondo without the tenacity for prime time pressure situations.

Dario Saric is 10 times the competitor Simmons is


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Simmons is a better player than Brown. Assuming both stay healthy, Simmons will have a better career and make a bigger impact. He can play 4 positions and plays both ends of the floor. Your post is so salty and you and everybody knows squat when it comes to his personality, tenacity or competitiveness. It's sad really.

[jrob23]

Too many posters are drinking the Kool Aid.

Jaylen Brown shoots free throws at less than 66%. He shoots 3's at 29%.

He's young, but he's not a closer.

Quick refresh on some Celtic title team characteristics. and why Brown, despite being a #3 pick, doesn't have the pedigree of his predecessors in terms of being a "closer."

2008 Team - Best shooting team in league. 2 players (Ray Allen, Eddie House were 40% 3 pt. shooters, and two (Pierce, Posey) were 38%. That's off the charts reliable. And all those guys, including Garnett, were at least 80% free throw shooters. Ray Allen and Eddie House were pushing 90% from the free throw line. 1 League MVP, 1 Finals MVP, 3 players 1rst or 2nd Team All-NBA at some point in their career (meaning one of the 10 best players in the NBA).

1981 Team - 3 Time League MVP, 1 Finals MVP and a future 2 Time Finals MVP, 3 players who at some point in their career were First Team All NBA (meaning one of the 5 Best Players in the NBA - Nate Archibald (best season 34 ppg, 11.4 apg); Bird, McHale) and one who a Second Team All-NBA (meaning one of the 10 Best players in the NBA, Robert Parish).

1974 Team - 1 League MVP, 2 Finals MVPs (different players (JoJo, Hondo) from League MVP (Cowens)), 2 Players at some point First Team All-NBA (Havlicek, Paul Westphal) and 2 players at some point Second Team All-NBA (Dave Cowens, JoJo White)

1969 Team - 5 Time League MVP, 4 players 1rst or 2nd Team All-NBA at some point in their career (Bill Russell, Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Bailey Howell), best free throw shooter in League (Siegfried).

The point of all those teams above is they all had 3 players, and sometimes 4, who at some point were considered among the 10 best players in the league. When you have a chance for a 3 pick, you ideally want an All-Star, or better, and someone who can be trusted to close out a game. Vince Carter never had the shot to reliably close out games for any of his teams, or take them deep into the playoffs. Vince just never shot that well against the best defenses in game 6 or game 7 playoff situations.

My fear is despite all the kool-aid we are hearing about Jaylen Brown, ultimately, you need a money jump shot and "touch" to make buckets when a game is on the line, ideally WITH EITHER HAND when a defender is in your face. I always felt you either had it, or didn't, but since I was blessed, maybe I'm missing something from those who say it "can be learned."

all I know is he can use his quick first step to get past most defenders, finish above the rim or get to the foul line, and already has a back to the basket game. That last skill is huge because most players don't have that for many years but once they do, it opens up everything for them. It took years for Jordan and Kobe to incorporate that into their games. JB has that skill now. What he doesn't have is the coache's trust. They are not running plays for him much if at all. If he was playing for PHI, they'd iso to him in half court sets any time there was a mismatch, which is almost every time. I'm not happy with BS for not doing this. Or, they'd have him curling off screens or bringing the ball up on occassion. All BS has him doing for the most part is parking in the corner behind the 3pt line spreading the floor stationary. It's bafflling. Not only does he not yet have the requisite threat of a three point shot to really keep Ds honest, he's not able to use his obvious athleticism to outquick or outpower depending on defender. He's not an option when in with starters and around the 4th option with the backups. I love me some Stevens but they are failling big time with how he's being used.

Anyway, kid is 20 y/o. Vince and Wade were 22 as rookies and while they made an impact didn't overwhelm guys. Give Jaylen 2 more seasons and he'l be the type of guy that demands the ball and gets it on most possessions. He should develop into a 20+ ppg scorer with lockdown defense (only at the 3 though). Jaylen's a good start to your rebuild...which I consider to have started this draft along with Zizic. Nothing else and nobody else on our team this season or past few will likely be on the potential championship winning Celtics team post 2020 besides them except maybe AB.

[Curmudgeon]

Let's hope he wins a few more championships than Carter has.