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12footrim wrote:

PockyCandy wrote:So you know how dominant Joel Embiid is right now?

Tim Duncan was that but better. Had every move in the post, could hit shots out to about 18 feet, was a beast on the boards and boxed out as well as any player in NBA history, could pass out of the high and low posts as well as any big man not named Walton or Jokic, and basically walled off the paint with his shot-blocking.

He's one of the greatest defensive players ever, but his offense is overated. No three, lame FT shooter most of the years he was great, under 50% from the field many years or barely over it. His true shooting was barely league average if not under many years. He really shouldn't have been shooting 18 times a game.

I watched the guy since he was an unknown freshman at Wake here living in NC.

Duncan had 1 season (2006 when he was injured) when he was below average in terms of scoring efficiency. Most of the times his efficiency was elite, especially in early 2000s when efficiency was the lowest since early 70s.

Shooting threes would hurt his game, not help. I don't understand why people blame centers for not having three point shot- it's not a must have for them.

If you really watched his whole career, you should be very biased against him to call him overrated offensively. Tell me who should have shot his shots in 2002 or 2003 Spurs?

I think it's really hard to appreciate Duncan if you didn't watch him play during his career for several reasons. He wasn't a highlight guy, he didn't pad his stats in blowouts or look for numbers as all he cared about was winning, and he played in a physical era with a really slow pace.
Many of the things he did at an all-time level are so subtle they can only be noticed if you have the patience to watch entire games, and might need to watch a lot of them to really get it. Some of the advanced stats capture the impact, but they are just hard to see because a lot of it was about what he didn't do; the mistakes he didn't make that are so common.
For example, he was a great rim protector but never chased blocks that he was unlikely to get, or chased blocks on difficult shots if it would take him out of rebounding position. He was content to make the shot exceedingly difficult, yet stay in position to gobble up the defensive rebound. His defensive rebounding rate was ridiculous. A lot of bigs chase blocks and get some highlights, but also give up easy putbacks a few times a game because they get out of position. They aren't faulted for that, but preventing easy layups is the #1 job of a rim protector, and Duncan understood that on an uncanny level. Further, when he did block shots, he would try to tip it to himself, not throw it our of bounds and then beat his chest, because gaining possession was more important to winning then showing everyone how alpha he was.
And after rebounds, he always pushed the ball. Sure, he could throw full-court outlet passes that would sometimes amaze you, but more often it was the simple outlet passes that he made instantly, on target, every time, while very rarely turning the ball over. This allowed his guards to get the ball down court before the defense was set, and either attack the hoop and score or kick it out for an open 3-point shot. If opponents pressured the guards he had the wherewithal and the requisite ball-handling skills to immediately dribble the ball up court himself until an outlet pass was available. He didn't necessarily get any box stats for this, but again, it helped a lot with winning. Further, he ran the court hard and filled the lane, even in his old age, which also opened up the transition offense for others.
Those are just a couple example that come to mind about some of the little things he did that don't jump out at you, but after time, you realize that having someone who does those things on every possession makes a huge difference to team success.
And last, he was the greatest superstar teammate in the game since Bill Russell, by most accounts.
Two quick examples that I'll share: When Danny Green, a player who had been cut by both the Spurs and the Cavs and then played in Europe, got a chance to stick with the Spurs, he was still struggling to find a meaningful role. According to Danny, Duncan talked to him at practice one day and said, paraphrasing, why aren't you shooting the ball more? Duncan saw that was his skill on offense that translated and what the team needed, but he was struggling with confidence, understandable for a journeyman who maybe wasn't sure he belonged and found himself trying to make the cut on one of the best teams in the league. Duncan told him that whenever he got a good look, to "Just let it fly." Small thing, sure, and it might sound corny, but remember Danny Green went on to set the all-time Finals record for 3-point makes in 2013, and was a HUGE reason they almost knocked off the Heatles that season. I don't want to take any credit away from Danny Green who surely worked hard to put himself in that position, but having one of the legends of the game and the best player on your team tell you he wants you to jack up 3s whenever you feel like it has to do immense good for a shooter's confidence.
Last example, a pretty unknown journeyman named Jeff Ayres was on the Spurs one season and was buried deep on the bench. He finally got in late one game during a blowout, and really struggled. he missed some bunnies, some dunks, was pressing. I don't know if he was going through something personal or if it was just the stress of trying to stay afloat in an extremely competitive field that he had chosen as his career, but the frustration got to him and he started to break down at the end of the game. Dude was in tears. A grown man with kids. Not only did Tim Duncan notice, but he was the first one to go up to the guy, give him a hug, a pat, and tell him it was going to be OK. How many superstars would be that cognizant of some unknown teammate? Most would be laughing it up with the other starters on the bench by that point. That's not a knock on them, but Tim wasn't like that. Everyone on the team was his teammate, and he tried to connect with and uplift all of them. He was humble enough to truly just be one of the guys, just a human being try to make his way like everyone else, just on a different path.
And most importantly, he brought it every game, every practice, never made excuses, never pointed fingers, and never got too high or too low.
I don't know how to quantify this kind of stuff, so a lot of people will probably just dismiss it, but this is the stuff that makes team sports so great and Tim Duncan was an all-time teammate. I think that makes all the difference. Basketball will always be a team sport and if you've played competitively on a team you know that when you like playing together and have that chemistry on the court everyone just plays with more energy, more focus, and more confidence, because you know you all have each other's backs and everyone is out there playing for something greater than themselves, they are playing for each other. You definitely won't find it in a box score, but look at all the role players that had great success with the Spurs and disappointed when they went elsewhere. To me it's as real as a corner 3, a monster rebound in traffic, or a pocket pass to the roll man. It's basketball personified, and it's why I love the sport, and why Tim Duncan is my favorite player of all time and top-10 legend imo.

joeyAdaMan wrote:

CIN-C-STAR wrote:

12footrim wrote:
He's one of the greatest defensive players ever, but his offense is overated. No three, lame FT shooter most of the years he was great, under 50% from the field many years or barely over it. His true shooting was barely league average if not under many years. He really shouldn't have been shooting 18 times a game.

I watched the guy since he was an unknown freshman at Wake here living in NC.

His offensive numbers aren't all time on that end, I agree, but it's worth noting that he had to carry his team as the clear #1 option for the bulk of his career. Teams would key in on him, and he still got it done. He was excellent in the post, but definitely wasn't a 3-point shooter and was a mediocre FT shooter for a big man.

He was also a pretty beastly scorer in the playoffs at his peak which is really all that matters

Absolutely worth noting that his numbers got better in the playoffs, not worse.
Says a lot about him as both a basketball player and a person.

Plus he had the most humble, low-key calling his own shot in the history of sports, guaranteeing a victory over the Heat in the 2014 Finals in such a mild manner that almost no one noticed

How good was Tim Duncan? TOP 5 all time

Post merger it's Jordan, Duncan and LeBron

Tim Duncan turned SAS into into the most successful franchise in North America sports




he's was nearly unstoppable in his 20s:

dominant back to the basket post player, great passer, quick first step, good faceup game, solid mid range game, great rebounder, one of the best defenders of all time, basketball IQ off the charts ...





Playoffs

Tim Duncan's 1st Playoff Game 1998 (4th quarter)



Tim Duncan (37p/14r) vs Shaquille O'Neal (22p/15r) - Highlights 1999 Playoffs Game 3



Tim Duncan (33p/15r) vs Kevin Garnett (25p/13r) - Highlights 2001 Playoffs Game 1

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Tim Duncan Full Highlights vs Lakers 2001 WCF GM2 - 40 Pts, 15 Rebs, 4 Blks



Tim Duncan (34p/25r) vs Shaquille O'Neal (21p/11r) - Highlights 2002 Playoffs Gm 5 Spurs@Lakers



Shaq vs. Duncan 2003 (37 pts / 16 reb) West Semis Game 6

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Tim Duncan - 41 points vs Dallas Mavericks Full Highlights (2006 WCSF GM7)



Tim Duncan Full Highlights 2007 WCSF Game 1 at Suns - 33 Pts, 16 Rebs

Duncan had an amazing closeout game against OKC in the 2014 Playoffs.

Anyhow, he was just one of the best to ever play the game. Forget stats, but when he was on the floor, the team would just dominate you and kill you without making any noise.

Duncan was wearing a huge knee brace for the last 10 years or so of his career and was subject to Pop's minute restrictions, but he was the most fundamental big man I've seen play.

Ballings7 wrote:

java051997 wrote:I've started watching NBA and became a big fan of the game since 2012 when Heat dominating the league.

My biggest questions are how Tim Duncan is the arguably best PF of all time? How good was him when he was in his prime?

He has 5 rings and 3 finals mvp
But hows his individual skills?

Ive seen his highlights. It was all good but not what i was used to watched like Barkley beasting the paint, KG and etc.
They are all athletic freak and monster inside but timmy seems kinda slow.

They said he was beast in defense yet he hasnt won DPOY in his 19 years career.

I love him as a player since he is humble and very role model . I just wanted to know how good he was.

Aside from what Pocky said,

Tim didn't win a DPOY because he wasn't an overly athletic flashy or substantial numbers guy for blocks like Ibaka/Camby/Ben Wallace, and most of the media aren't intelligent or dedicated enough to the game to see and understand the nuances of man-to-man defense, team-defense, rebounding, positioning, LENGTH, and the effects all those aspects have over a game --- aside from the blocks, rebounds, and steal numbers Tim would still get which were good. The former requires paying attention and repetitions and analysis, compared to the latter which is easy to see and understand "WOW! He killed/ripped him".

And most people and most media didn't watch the spurs other than when they were on national TV and in a bigger game at that.

2007 Tim should of won it over Camby. Simple as that.

Chicks dig Blocks and steals

Top 5 player all time. That's how good.

Best PF of all time, that good.

Just go back and watch some of his highlights. Mr Fundamentals. Insanely good. Simple but effective post moves, extremely high basketball IQ, great leader, elite defender, humble as anything.

He was in a Spurs system that kept him competing for titles during the majority of his career. Dirk & KG weren't as lucky in that regard. But still, that doesn't take away from how great Tim Duncan was.

Bucketz_McGee wrote:

twoheadedboy wrote:

Bucketz_McGee wrote:
If that is your standard for measuring the greatness of a player, then Robert Horry would be the GOAT. Clutch from beyond the arc, agile enough to guard it and won 7 rings (7 for 7 in the finals BTW).

Green font means he wasn't serious, brother.

Oh, I am new to RealGM. Thank you.

Laker fan and Eagles fan? Looks like we found Kobe's alias guys

Dominater wrote:

Bucketz_McGee wrote:

twoheadedboy wrote:

Green font means he wasn't serious, brother.

Oh, I am new to RealGM. Thank you.

Laker fan and Eagles fan? Looks like we found Kobe's alias guys

Maybe you did.

In addition to all the accolades that everyone else has posted, as a lifelong Spurs fan, since BEFORE David came, let me just say - Tim Duncan completely changed the franchise, forever.

How many players can you say that about?

Before Duncan, we were a Phoenix Suns type of team that was usually pretty good but always choked in the Playoffs. Now we are 5 time champs with the best "culture" in the NBA. That was all because of Duncan.

Not as good as David Robinson. He could never carry scrubs to 55-60 wins like he did.

Second or third best C of all time

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He was pretty good. Should be 6/6 in the finals, has 5 rings, elite defender, couldn't be stopped on offense with them bank shots and was likely a great locker room guy and a fierce competitor who truly valued winning.

wasnt he a bust? 5 rings man, 5 rings.

OdomFan wrote:I really hate a lot of people are saying "this or that classic player didn't shoot 3's." I liked the game when not every single player has to shoot 3's.

It really shouldn't be held against them like that.

3s are more efficient, but you can't scrutinize past players for no the practicing or making them.

Imagine scientists nowadays talking how stupid the past geniuses were for not figuring out how to make and use electricity a few hundred years ago. I mean yeah, technically it already existed and could be used, but they were concentrated in other things at the time.

"Don't play the hindsight game" is a really good rule a respect your antecessors.

Splashin wrote:He was pretty good. Should be 6/6 in the finals, has 5 rings, elite defender, couldn't be stopped on offense with them bank shots and was likely a great locker room guy and a fierce competitor who truly valued winning.

No, he shouldn't

Franco wrote:

OdomFan wrote:I really hate a lot of people are saying "this or that classic player didn't shoot 3's." I liked the game when not every single player has to shoot 3's.

It really shouldn't be held against them like that.

3s are more efficient, but you can't scrutinize past players for no the practicing or making them.

Imagine scientists nowadays talking how stupid the past geniuses were for not figuring out how to make and use electricity a few hundred years ago. I mean yeah, technically it already existed and could be used, but they were concentrated in other things at the time.

"Don't play the hindsight game" is a really good rule a respect your antecessors.

small meaningless correction here, but i'm pretty sure it took a while because rubber came from south america that let it be insulated, which wasn't possible before