What Hawks gonna do this offseason

[basketballwacko2]

Hey Hawks fans there has been a lot of talk about Collins traded to the Pacers. I've commented on several of these threads on the T&T board. I'm wondering what you think about Collins and the Hawks impending Tax issues. Getting off most of his money could help the team get their young guys and Murray signed next year. Collins makes $25.3 million in 2023-24, and several trade forum posters have suggested Buddy Hield for Collins, I don't think the Hawks want Hield although he is a great shooter 42.5% from 3. Not even sure I want to move him.

I've said I see Collins as a bad contract because he's regressed, what would it take to make a deal between Indiana and Atlanta to get Collins off your books?

Word is Hawks have had opportunities to move Collins in a straight salary dump but have declined. Though his numbers have regressed in recent years, his overall play is solid. Improved defense, improved passing.

Considering the criticism Hawks ownership/management took after we dumped Kevin Huerter to avoid the tax last season, I am skeptical we would do the same with Collins this year.

I'd guess we're still looking to move him, but for productive players on a declining or expiring contract.

Can't believe we're still having these conversations about the dude a year later.

An 'Oral' history of John Collins Trade Rumors:

Spoiler:

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John Collins, Atlanta Hawks

Atlanta has once again made Collins available, according to The Athletic and Stadium's Shams Charania. His offensive usage has declined so starkly that the three years and $78.5 million left on his deal will be treated as an albatross to some.

Let's all agree, right here and now, not to be among those people. Collins' offensive armory is infinitely scalable, translating to screening or spot-up duty with room for situational floor-game exploration. He needs touches to be effective, but, er, that's not really an insult. And since he's only 25, he fits any timeline—rebuilding, win-now, gray-area windows, whatever.

Nov 2022

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These tweets are pretty hard to believe. They seem to only be 4 days apart.

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I liked Collins in the Draft in 2017, but he seems to have something wrong, maybe he just needs a new situation? If the Hawks are looking for productive players and less salary how about Jalen Smith and Duarte from Indiana?

[Jamaaliver]

I liked Collins in the Draft in 2017, but he seems to have something wrong, maybe he just needs a new situation? If the Hawks are looking for productive players and less salary how about Jalen Smith and Duarte from Indiana?

Those players were included in a framework of a trade rumored back in February.

I'd say those players are a solid starting point. But I'd likely insist on one of your many 1st rounders from this summer's draft.



Otherwise, I'd rather bet on J Collins returning to form in a new offense under a new coach than on Jalen Smith becoming a consistent, dependable part of a front court rotation.

(And I'm not sure how much PT Duarte even gets in a rotation that includes Trae, DeJounte and Bogdan Bogdanovic.)

[dms269]

I liked Collins in the Draft in 2017, but he seems to have something wrong, maybe he just needs a new situation? If the Hawks are looking for productive players and less salary how about Jalen Smith and Duarte from Indiana?

I don't see either of those players being productive players for the Hawks. Duarte is behind Murray, Bogi, and Griffin while Jalen is likely behind Johnson and Bey.

The idea that Collins needs a change of scenario completely ignores the fact that he is getting that in Atlanta with a completely different coaching staff.

[jayu70]

New NBA Rules Could Hurt These Teams Most

Hawks Need To Trade Out of Salary



The Atlanta Hawks didn't pay the tax for 2022-23, but the team is immediately in financial jeopardy with the new rules. After trading for Dejounte Murray and giving Bogdan Bogdanović an extension, the team is committed to $143 million with its six most expensive players.

The rest of the roster (once fleshed out to at least 14 players) pushes that total to about $172 million, which is $10 million over the tax with a $16.4 million penalty. The Hawks benefit from lighter tax rules for relatively light offenders. Still, the team also has three players with unlikely incentives (De'Andre Hunter, Clint Capela and Murray) that could push that higher.

With those incentives, the Hawks project to be over the first apron (reducing trade salary matching to 110 percent this season) and within $3.1 million of the second. And if the team recommits to Murray, who is expecting a new, larger contract starting in 2024-25, along with Onyeka Okongwu and Saddiq Bey, both extension eligible—Atlanta will be above the aprons for the foreseeable future.

Starting with 2024-25, teams over the first apron won't be able to use traded player exceptions, which are like trade gift cards that last a calendar year. For instance, the Portland Trail Blazers traded CJ McCollum to the New Orleans Pelicans, generating a trade exception they used the following summer to acquire Jerami Grant from the Detroit Pistons.

That possibility goes away for the Hawks and others over the first apron after this coming season.

Their payroll is too high for a first- or second-round playoff team. Atlanta's payroll would be too high under the previous rules as a second-or-third-tier contender, but now with such heavy penalties, something has to give. That may mean a John Collins trade if one surfaces. Or, at worst, it may mean they don't extend Murray—which could lead to trading him for value before losing him outright.

Bleacher Report

Hey Hawks fans there has been a lot of talk about Collins traded to the Pacers. I've commented on several of these threads on the T&T board. I'm wondering what you think about Collins and the Hawks impending Tax issues. Getting off most of his money could help the team get their young guys and Murray signed next year. Collins makes $25.3 million in 2023-24, and several trade forum posters have suggested Buddy Hield for Collins, I don't think the Hawks want Hield although he is a great shooter 42.5% from 3. Not even sure I want to move him.

I've said I see Collins as a bad contract because he's regressed, what would it take to make a deal between Indiana and Atlanta to get Collins off your books?

I'll echo what others have said 'the Hawks aren’t looking for a salary dump for Collins as a bad contract' or it would have happened already. Yes his raw offensive stats have declined due to 'Nate' but he is still productive on defense and the little things. We already saw the improvement post Nate with his 3pt shooting from 25% to 37% with Quin. Hawks ideally would move Capela since we have his replacement in Okongwu, and Okongwu has added range to his shot that wouldn't clog the lane the way Capela does and give Collins more space to operate.
There was also a rumor that Kyle Korver was opposed to trading him and he spent time working with him on his 3pt shot which we saw improvement in.

[Jamaaliver]

FTR, I'd rather trade into the early 2nd round for this kid than pay Saddiq Bey $20+ million.

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[jayu70]

FTR, I'd rather trade into the early 2nd round for this kid than pay Saddiq Bey $20+ million.

No matter what we do, I have no interest in paying Bey $20 mil.

[jayu70]

FTR, I'd rather trade into the early 2nd round for this kid than pay Saddiq Bey $20+ million.

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Speaking of Bey...

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[basketballwacko2]

I liked Collins in the Draft in 2017, but he seems to have something wrong, maybe he just needs a new situation? If the Hawks are looking for productive players and less salary how about Jalen Smith and Duarte from Indiana?

Those players were included in a framework of a trade rumored back in February.

I'd say those players are a solid starting point. But I'd likely insist on one of your many 1st rounders from this summer's draft.



Otherwise, I'd rather bet on J Collins returning to form in a new offense under a new coach than on Jalen Smith becoming a consistent, dependable part of a front court rotation.

(And I'm not sure how much PT Duarte even gets in a rotation that includes Trae, DeJounte and Bogdan Bogdanovic.)

I remember the talks involving Indiana and Atlanta then when Turner was extended there was not enough cap left to take his whole salary.

I have a feeling something will happen as the Hawks really need to shed some salary.

[basketballwacko2]

FTR, I'd rather trade into the early 2nd round for this kid than pay Saddiq Bey $20+ million.

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I think Indiana is looking at Strawther with the 32nd pick. But who knows lots of disinfo comes from the Pacers FO.

[basketballwacko2]

Hey Hawks fans there has been a lot of talk about Collins traded to the Pacers. I've commented on several of these threads on the T&T board. I'm wondering what you think about Collins and the Hawks impending Tax issues. Getting off most of his money could help the team get their young guys and Murray signed next year. Collins makes $25.3 million in 2023-24, and several trade forum posters have suggested Buddy Hield for Collins, I don't think the Hawks want Hield although he is a great shooter 42.5% from 3. Not even sure I want to move him.

I've said I see Collins as a bad contract because he's regressed, what would it take to make a deal between Indiana and Atlanta to get Collins off your books?

I'll echo what others have said 'the Hawks aren’t looking for a salary dump for Collins as a bad contract' or it would have happened already. [/quote]

This is some flawed logic. If it hasn't happened it won't. During the season the salary cap and 15 man roster, makes it much harder to do things that it is in the off season. There were really only 2 teams that could take him without matching and that was Indiana and SA.

We'll just have to sit back and watch what the Draft brings us and see how much the New CBA motivates moves.

[jayu70]

Hey Hawks fans there has been a lot of talk about Collins traded to the Pacers. I've commented on several of these threads on the T&T board. I'm wondering what you think about Collins and the Hawks impending Tax issues. Getting off most of his money could help the team get their young guys and Murray signed next year. Collins makes $25.3 million in 2023-24, and several trade forum posters have suggested Buddy Hield for Collins, I don't think the Hawks want Hield although he is a great shooter 42.5% from 3. Not even sure I want to move him.

I've said I see Collins as a bad contract because he's regressed, what would it take to make a deal between Indiana and Atlanta to get Collins off your books?

I'll echo what others have said 'the Hawks aren’t looking for a salary dump for Collins as a bad contract' or it would have happened already.

This is some flawed logic. If it hasn't happened it won't. During the season the salary cap and 15 man roster, makes it much harder to do things that it is in the off season. There were really only 2 teams that could take him without matching and that was Indiana and SA.

We'll just have to sit back and watch what the Draft brings us and see how much the New CBA motivates moves.[/quote]
Flawed to you, but Collins' name has been in trade talks for 2+ years. I'm speaking specifically as a bad salary dump. Example there were rumors of a Beasley/Vanderbuilt for Collins swap, Ainge asked for #15 Hawks declined.
Hawks weren’t willing to pay to move him and the GM Fields actually said they aren't interested in paying to dump him.

[basketballwacko2]

Hey Hawks fans there has been a lot of talk about Collins traded to the Pacers. I've commented on several of these threads on the T&T board. I'm wondering what you think about Collins and the Hawks impending Tax issues. Getting off most of his money could help the team get their young guys and Murray signed next year. Collins makes $25.3 million in 2023-24, and several trade forum posters have suggested Buddy Hield for Collins, I don't think the Hawks want Hield although he is a great shooter 42.5% from 3. Not even sure I want to move him.

I've said I see Collins as a bad contract because he's regressed, what would it take to make a deal between Indiana and Atlanta to get Collins off your books?

I'll echo what others have said 'the Hawks aren’t looking for a salary dump for Collins as a bad contract' or it would have happened already.

This is some flawed logic. If it hasn't happened it won't. During the season the salary cap and 15 man roster, makes it much harder to do things that it is in the off season. There were really only 2 teams that could take him without matching and that was Indiana and SA.

We'll just have to sit back and watch what the Draft brings us and see how much the New CBA motivates moves.

Flawed to you, but Collins' name has been in trade talks for 2+ years. I'm speaking specifically as a bad salary dump. Example there were rumors of a Beasley/Vanderbuilt for Collins swap, Ainge asked for #15 Hawks declined.
Hawks weren’t willing to pay to move him and the GM Fields actually said they aren't interested in paying to dump him.[/quote]


Listen man I'm not gonna argue with you on your home board but you can't use "If it hasn't happened it won't..." for anything. If it hasn't happened yet there likely is a reason. I'm sure there are a million guys in divorce court that thought that.

[CP War Hawks]

I can see Collins for TJM and those two late 1sts.

[Jamaaliver]

This feels right. DJM as the primary trade piece could definitely net us Siakam or Paul George.

If Minnesota is feeling desperate, it might even get us Karl Anthony Towns. (Who'd fit nicely next to Okongwu, FWIW.)

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[HMFFL]

This feels right. DJM as the primary trade piece could definitely net us Siakam or Paul George.

If Minnesota is feeling desperate, it might even get us Karl Anthony Towns. (Who'd fit nicely next to Okongwu, FWIW.)

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KAT is a big concern. Is he even a shot blocker now? His numbers are all over the place but scream decline.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[D21]

I'll echo what others have said 'the Hawks aren’t looking for a salary dump for Collins as a bad contract' or it would have happened already.

This is some flawed logic. If it hasn't happened it won't. During the season the salary cap and 15 man roster, makes it much harder to do things that it is in the off season. There were really only 2 teams that could take him without matching and that was Indiana and SA.

We'll just have to sit back and watch what the Draft brings us and see how much the New CBA motivates moves.

Flawed to you, but Collins' name has been in trade talks for 2+ years. I'm speaking specifically as a bad salary dump. Example there were rumors of a Beasley/Vanderbuilt for Collins swap, Ainge asked for #15 Hawks declined.
Hawks weren’t willing to pay to move him and the GM Fields actually said they aren't interested in paying to dump him.

Listen man I'm not gonna argue with you on your home board but you can't use "If it hasn't happened it won't..." for anything. If it hasn't happened yet there likely is a reason. I'm sure there are a million guys in divorce court that thought that.[/quote]

Ainge was dreaming asking for a pick... there was a big reason he wanted to traded both Vanderbilt/Beasley: the team was at its worse with them, they both add the worst Net Rating of UTA, and he wanted us to send one PF making impact even if he was not used the right way

Anyway, would you be interested by a trade built mainly on Hield+Turner for Murray+Capela?
IND would certainly have to think twice if they can use both Haliburton and Murray together, but what do you think about that?

[Jamaaliver]

KAT is a big concern. Is he even a shot blocker now? His numbers are all over the place but scream decline.

Any concerns regarding KAT are extremely valid. But seeing an offensive big man like Jokic paired with a scoring PG like Jamal Murray dominate the league with a ton of 3 & D wings around them -- I'd be willing to emulate that approach for a couple of seasons.

Ideally, I want two top players who can attack the defense in different ways and who can run plays together down the stretch of a tight game.

Pick-and-Pops with Trae & KAT with Okongwu serving as rum runner could be incredibly difficult for every EC team to stop.

Spoiler:

(KAT was at least productive as a shot blocker pre-Gobert.)

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[basketballwacko2]

Ainge was dreaming asking for a pick... there was a big reason he wanted to traded both Vanderbilt/Beasley: the team was at its worse with them, they both add the worst Net Rating of UTA, and he wanted us to send one PF making impact even if he was not used the right way

Anyway, would you be interested by a trade built mainly on Hield+Turner for Murray+Capela?
IND would certainly have to think twice if they can use both Haliburton and Murray together, but what do you think about that?

I like Murray and Capela, but I like Turner a lot, he gives you the combination of shooting and shot blocking, while Capela is more of a traditional center. I too would be concerned about Hali and Murray playing together, then there is the issue of having so many guards on the Pacers roster, they still have Nembhard, McConnell, Duarte and Mathurin. The Big issue for the Pacers is the PF spot one they hope to fix with the #7 pick.

I think there is a chance that something will happen between the Pacers and Hawks around Collins, he seems to be the most expendable of the Hawks current players if they want to cut salary. He could also be plugged right into the Pacers starting line up.

[D21]

Ainge was dreaming asking for a pick... there was a big reason he wanted to traded both Vanderbilt/Beasley: the team was at its worse with them, they both add the worst Net Rating of UTA, and he wanted us to send one PF making impact even if he was not used the right way

Anyway, would you be interested by a trade built mainly on Hield+Turner for Murray+Capela?
IND would certainly have to think twice if they can use both Haliburton and Murray together, but what do you think about that?

I like Murray and Capela, but I like Turner a lot, he gives you the combination of shooting and shot blocking, while Capela is more of a traditional center. I too would be concerned about Hali and Murray playing together, then there is the issue of having so many guards on the Pacers roster, they still have Nembhard, McConnell, Duarte and Mathurin. The Big issue for the Pacers is the PF spot one they hope to fix with the #7 pick.

I think there is a chance that something will happen between the Pacers and Hawks around Collins, he seems to be the most expendable of the Hawks current players if they want to cut salary. He could also be plugged right into the Pacers starting line up.

Makes sense for IND.
Regarding Collins, we are in the same case, he should fit with Turner, so IND would be interested in Collins, and ATL in Turner
The fact that he looks like the most expandable is linked to playing with Capela, he would be more open to play the way he used to with a guy like Turner instead of Capela.
And not sure they will search to cut salary, maybe avoiding the Tax Apron, but if they think they have a great team, it's possible that Ressler start to pay the Tax.

[jayu70]

Pick 1.
Greg Swartz from Bleacher Report has listed Jevon Carter, Patrick Beverley, and Reggie Jackson as potential targets for the Atlanta Hawks backup PG role.

“Atlanta has quietly become one of the deepest teams in the NBA, with two potential All-Stars at guard, a load of wings after the trade for Saddiq Bey and a frontcourt that somehow still features John Collins. The Hawks can't afford to be big spenders in free agency but could use a veteran point guard behind Trae Young and Dejounte Murray.”